CoSForums Archive - MoM and DADA coincidence...?

Lestrange

April 29th, 2003, 11:28 pm

I did a search on this, and I couldn't find anything, so sorry if its been posted before. :)

Anyway, as you (obviously) have recognised, the initials of Ministry of Magic form the words MoM, and the initials of Defense Against the Dark Arts form DADA. After thinking for a while on how absurd these two different jobs sound when abreviated, I stumbled upon something, trying to make sense of these names. And thinking how most things that J.K. Rowling writes are not coincidences. Anyway, here goes:

I think that maybe James Potter had the Defense Against the Dark Arts job, and Lily had a job in the Ministry of Magic.

I know that I don't have a shread of evidence to support these theories, but I just wanted to have it out in the air, and for someone to disprove the theory quickly, so that I can forget about it, and continue speculating and making strange non-logical theories when I should be doing my Drama homework. :)

jordmundt6

April 29th, 2003, 11:33 pm

That's a REALLY BIG STRETCH. Possible? Maybe. But I don't think that's the evidence. P.S. Neither shorthand is used in any of the books. It's slang reference for interviews and discussions like this one.

rotsiepots

April 29th, 2003, 11:44 pm

Heh...great find Lestrange! :lol:

It should be considered, though, that the term "Mom" to describe one's mother isn't used in the UK. Britishers use refer to their mothers as "Mum".

Just a thought.

Silk E Smooth

April 29th, 2003, 11:44 pm

I think that was just coincidence that the terms are shortened like that. But it is an interesting theory.

GryffindorSeeker

April 29th, 2003, 11:52 pm

That's an interesting idea! Probable? maybe not. Possible? Absolutely! Of course, the British say "Mum" , but that doesn't mean much.

Lestrange

April 29th, 2003, 11:55 pm

*Breathes freely once again* Thanks for responding, now I can finally finish my homework...:p

Eternal

April 29th, 2003, 11:57 pm

It is an interesting theory, but as you said, with nothing to really back it up thus far. However, it could work with the idea of Lily and James being "meddlesome fools." We're not sure what their jobs were, and chances are if it wasn't that big of a deal we would have known already. And, in my opinion, those two working in those fields would be somewhat important. Many different theories have sprouted up recently about the Ministry of Magic being corrupt, and I think it's even mentioned in a few official book five summaries. In any case, if the Ministry was corrupt, and Lily and James worked for MoM and DADA, perhaps Lily leaked information to James or was used as a mole.

GryffindorSeeker

April 29th, 2003, 11:59 pm

Well, Eternal, JKR did tell us that they were important, their jobs I mean.

Earendil

April 30th, 2003, 12:01 am

Good catch, Lestrange!

I never thought about this before, but it does seem JK's style--to throw in these teeny tiny little hints. While there isn't any evidence to back it up, it's entirely possible.

Barbara Kennedy

April 30th, 2003, 12:11 am

I had wondered if Percy was going to follow his Mom or MoM....lol
Yes, I'm an American. [I won't say I'm a Yank, I live in Texas....lol]

FawkesBox

April 30th, 2003, 12:12 am

Nice work Lestrange_ we'll have too look for more such things in the future. It's a little out there but we'll find out on June 21st.

GryffindorSeeker

April 30th, 2003, 12:15 am

Well, you mean we hope we find out, right? I mean, did she say specifically it was this book? I'm not positive..... Can someone tell me?

FawkesBox

April 30th, 2003, 1:18 am

No, sorry... I'd jsut thought that by them we'd have more clues to speculate on.

jordmundt6

April 30th, 2003, 2:01 am

We are supposed to find out about Lily and James work, (I think) but definitely more about where Harry's fortune came from as well as a major surprise about Lily and James and a major one about the Dursleys.

DocHollidaywe

May 1st, 2003, 5:11 am

Thats neat ... but unlikley

Aldawen

May 1st, 2003, 5:57 am

Interesting...
I don't know if this is really characteristic of J.K.R.'s writing; she's never done anything like that before. It sounds rather Shakespeare-esque to me. Sorry about that, I have the Bard on the brain this e'en. I don't think James was the DADA teacher though, and I don't know about either one of them working for the MoM. I think they did something much less obvious, maybe even something we haven't heard of yet. But it is definitely something to think about. I guess we may find out in 51 days!

Auri DeMeer

May 1st, 2003, 11:15 am

Good one, Lestrange! :clappy:
I like the idea of James as DADA teacher and the post being "jinxed" ever since, the only one able to last more than a year would be Harry himself then. Awww nice.

And Lily in the MoM... Could be! I believe one of the three (Sirius or James or Lily) worked there. It could be Lily... Department of Magical Catastrophes maybe - she investigated the "catastrophes" and thus she was meddlesome, like Lucius said.

If she worked there her boss was no other than Fudge - he was junior minister in the department by that time.

Mad-I Moody

May 1st, 2003, 7:50 pm

If James was the DADA teacher, it would be another reason for Snape to hate him....James got the teaching position that Snape wanted.

supernatural

May 1st, 2003, 8:00 pm

I like this theory- we dont know what the pair did for work yet, so it's is possible.
i cant wait until the book comes out to find out though- and if it i true- well spotted!!!!!

rayrayjohanna

May 2nd, 2003, 8:27 pm

If Harry's dad was DADA teacher at Hogwarts, it would be recorded somewhere, public information. Hermione would have read about it by now. I suspect the Potters' jobs were something we are not yet familiar with.

And Mad-I-Moody, are you sure that Snape actually wanted/wants the DADA job? Or is that just a rumor?

CHucklel--Mom and DADA, but only in these threads. JKR always spells them out.

harrythebest

May 2nd, 2003, 9:22 pm

Well... Not impossible. Not at all I think. :clappy: It's a good theory... and we needn't find it in the books. J. K. might leave it for us to find. ;)

Guardian Angel

May 2nd, 2003, 10:00 pm

I'm sorry to interrupt the discussion, but you know what I thought when I saw the title of this thread?

MoM and DADA a.k.a. Mom and Dad (For me that was the coincidence...)

I know it's silly, but my brain sometimes works that way... :D

Virtuousdream

May 2nd, 2003, 10:14 pm

lol, sorry but I can't quite see how its a clue, possible James did work as a DADA teacher, but as Rowlings english and we don't use mom, only mum, the theory doesn't quite work and it was released over here first!

GryffindorSeeker

May 2nd, 2003, 10:47 pm

Well, she might be British, but I mean, she's used plenty of things from other cultures and myths and such. It's never stopped you before. Oh, by the way, if this is true, Hermione probably has read it, she just hasn't told him. I don't know why, but she probably hadn't told him for a certain reason. That one I don't know. I don't know the circumstances.

Kedavra

May 3rd, 2003, 2:06 am

Thats a stretch I think.I highly doubt that James ever was a teacher.Im sure their would be some clues to pick up on to support this theory but I find none.I think both either worked in the MoM or where on a side type job involving them yet not being in the MoM itself.

Puffskein

May 6th, 2003, 8:16 pm

It'll be great when we do find out what their jobs were. Nothing wrong with speculation. But I think that if MOM and DADA do have anything to do with Harry's parents, it will be a coincidence. The phrases "Ministry of Magic" and "Defence Against the Dark Arts" don't sound like they've been contrived to spell something. They're just logical names to give that organisation and that subject.

dorcasderr

May 6th, 2003, 9:53 pm

I think it's a fun theory but I don't think it was a significant plan...By the way, one or both of them could have been in the defense against the dark arts field without being the teacher at Hogwarts, or anywhere else for that matter. They could have been DADA practicioners or Aurors or something.

Amina

May 6th, 2003, 10:50 pm

i know a couple of people have said this already, but we do say Mum, not Mom, and i think that maybe this is a stretch too far? i dont' really see why she would pick to use the american spelling when plotting out the storyline way back when in scotland and didn't even dream of it going this far.

i dunno, just seems a little contrived? she's normally more subtle. i could be wrong, of course :D knowing my luck, no doubt i'll be proved so *l*

Dedalus

May 6th, 2003, 11:24 pm

May I also point out that the abbreviation is wrong, because they don't match each other?

If you use the of in MoM then you should also use the the and make it DATDA. Or they could both be left out (MM, DADA).

JephReeta

May 7th, 2003, 12:04 am

Dang! I think either I seriously UNDERANALYZE things or else there are getting to be some very desperate people on these forums! :rotfl: It's interesting that you thought of something like this but I REALLY doubt anything will come of it. Personally I agree with Dedalus; that was my first thought on the whole thing. However, I give you full marks for thoughtfulness and creativity, Lestrange!

Lestrange

May 7th, 2003, 12:44 am

Originally posted by JephReeta (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=307434#post307434))
Dang! I think either I seriously UNDERANALYZE things or else there are getting to be some very desperate people on these forums! :rotfl: It's interesting that you thought of something like this but I REALLY doubt anything will come of it. Personally I agree with Dedalus; that was my first thought on the whole thing. However, I give you full marks for thoughtfulness and creativity, Lestrange!

:o I know its an idotic theory...It just began eating away at my brain and I had to post it somewhere...;) You know how it goes...

TheRealSlugger

May 7th, 2003, 3:06 am

If James was the DADA teacher, it would be another reason for Snape to hate him....James got the teaching position that Snape wanted.
-Quote

Or maybe that's WHY Snape wants the job...to live up to James.

Blue

June 8th, 2003, 2:21 am

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299215#post299215))
Good one, Lestrange! :clappy:
I like the idea of James as DADA teacher and the post being "jinxed" ever since, the only one able to last more than a year would be Harry himself then. Awww nice.

And Lily in the MoM... Could be! I believe one of the three (Sirius or James or Lily) worked there. It could be Lily... Department of Magical Catastrophes maybe - she investigated the "catastrophes" and thus she was meddlesome, like Lucius said.

If she worked there her boss was no other than Fudge - he was junior minister in the department by that time.

Originally posted by Dedalus (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=307392#post307392))
May I also point out that the abbreviation is wrong, because they don't match each other?

If you use the of in MoM then you should also use the the and make it DATDA. Or they could both be left out (MM, DADA).

Both these posts, whether intentional or not, have just backed up the intitial theory. The fact that we are gifted unnecessary information about Fudge's past suggests we'll hear more, possibly to do with Lily. Also, I remember reading only last night in CoS that Hagrid rushes over the position of DADA. He's explaining to the Scooby Gang that Gilderoy Lockhart was the only contender for the job, saying that the position has had problems for years, before changing the subject and rushing them out. I can't remember the actual quote, but I will definitely post it.

The unmatching abbreviations fill in the "But it's American spelling!" problem. "MM" could by either Mum or Mom. "DADA" is an international term. This interests me greatly, as I have often wondered why it's called the "Dark Arts" instead of "Black Arts" or "Dark Magic"/"Black Magic".
DADM, or DABA doesn't work at all...

I'm starting to wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye...

(NOTE; that's pretty impressive. I've been marked 'the most cynical believer in the world' so making me wonder is a huge acheivement...)

caroline40

June 9th, 2003, 12:59 pm

Its not a question of jkr choosing the american "mom" as "Mum"wouldnt work

Besides which nationality call their farthers dada

I think this is a good theory

keskin_snape

June 9th, 2003, 1:21 pm

The brits aren't the only ones who use the term 'Mum' I know both us [new zealanders] and aussies use that instead.
Actually I think america is the only country who say 'Mom'. Unless Canada do to, but I can't tell the difference :\
I call my Dad, Dada sometimes if thats anything?

Just ignore me. Its past midnight here and I need my beddy byes. :yawn:

Blue

June 26th, 2003, 4:22 am

Now I don't want to post a spoiler or anything, but for those of us who have read HP OotP don't you think that gives some pretty good backing evidence to support this theory?

R3mus Lup!n

June 26th, 2003, 7:22 am

Nah......its probably a coincidence but interesting theory.

Dormitorius Draco

July 1st, 2003, 4:03 am

:lol: I've never though of it like that b4, but I don't want to trip on the Spoiler policy so I'll leave this for now.....;)

jr119us

July 1st, 2003, 7:17 am

We only use those abbreviations on this forum. its not like a universally known abbreviation that JKR came up with and ecourages.

Thats like saying that Dumbledore is an alcoholic because his abbreviation is DD and it stands for drunk driver? Could there be a connection here? ;)

Alyne Dharkel

July 1st, 2003, 7:58 am

haha,,, his glasses are hlaf moon right..? and side ways they make two D's..oooooh.....another coincidence? were cool, drunk drivers united bro!

jr119us

July 1st, 2003, 9:58 pm

But seriously, how do people come up with this stuff?

Yavanna

July 1st, 2003, 11:11 pm

Yeah, I think that is just a coincidence. It is way too big of a stretch to make much sense. I think people are going crazy with analyzations, no offense.

Noodlez

July 2nd, 2003, 6:57 pm

And mabye thats one more thing snape hates james for? I mean, snape, obsessed and exited about the opening aplys for the job only to find out his arch enemy James Potter has got it.
Nifty! :D

Blue

July 3rd, 2003, 3:33 am

The whole DD thing is a stretch, I agree, and even though this theory is a little off the wall, it makes an awful lot of sense now Book 5 is out right?
If James was DADA, it would help explain the whole Snape Vs. Potter thing, and be a great reason why no one else has lasted in that position.
Plus, I get the impression that Harry is going to follow in his father's footsteps, he's already making a great start...

jr119us

July 3rd, 2003, 9:08 pm

The scene in the pensieve explains the Snape vs. Potter thing, no help required.

rotsiepots

June 14th, 2004, 7:45 am

Scoop33

June 14th, 2004, 9:05 am

Gosh, how did you think of that theory? Anways, I don't think that is really meant to be anything. It is just a name, and the name fits what job it is, so it isn't like JKR just made up a funny name to make the initials some kind of a sign.

purplehawk

June 14th, 2004, 10:25 am

I'm not really sure whether this theory helps to explain Snape's hatred of James, now that we know that Snape was employed at Hogwarts the year before James died. Snape would have started teaching at Hogwarts in September, 1980 and James was killed on October 31, 1981. I suppose they could have taught together for a year, but it seems unlikely. Wouldn't James have been in hiding by that stage?

I wonder if Snape started teaching at Hogwarts before or after Voldemort found out about Trelawney's first prophecy? That's for another thread, I suppose.

I'm feeling confused. Maybe it's just semantics, or the fact I'm horrible with the dates in this story, but Snape told Umbridge he'd been employed fourteen years during his inspection in OotP. Harry was 15 years years old at the time he witnessed Umbridge questioning Snape. If that's the case, Snape came to Hogwarts the year after Harry was born - the same year the Potters were killed.

Sybill's prophecy was overheard in the summer before Harry's birth, so Voldemort would have known about it long before Snape came to Hogwarts.

As far as the DADA post, I suggested this in one of the Layers threads (or maybe it was one of the Prophecy threads) months ago. Someone else, Whizbang perhaps, was also suggesting Lily had worked for the MoM during the same discussion. There was also a lot of chatter about the fact Godric's Hollow was somewhere near Hogwarts (i.e., in Scotland rather than England), which would have made an easy commute for James. James' death in October of '81 would mean Snape could well have applied for the DADA job fourteen years ago.

Good catch, Lestrange! :tu:

rotsiepots

June 14th, 2004, 1:43 pm

I'm feeling confused. Maybe it's just semantics, or the fact I'm horrible with the dates in this story, but Snape told Umbridge he'd been employed fourteen years during his inspection in OotP. Harry was 15 years years old at the time he witnessed Umbridge questioning Snape. If that's the case, Snape came to Hogwarts the year after Harry was born - the same year the Potters were killed.

I'm equally horrible with numbers and usually use the Lexicon's timeline to work things out. Most of the time I can't remember what year the series is supposed to be set. According to this (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/dumbledore.html) timeline, Snape was appointed in 1980 (the year Harry was born). I suppose they're wrong. :shrug:

purplehawk

June 14th, 2004, 3:24 pm

They must have made a mistake - or missed Snape's fourteen year comment in OotP.

Remember when you and I were posting about Sybill's "nearly sixteen years" comment in light of Dumbledore's "on a cold wet night nearly sixteen years ago... "? You figured that one out neatly, but Snape's tenure doesn't seem to fit.

His fourteen years does fit, however, if you consider Dumbledore's comment to the Wizengamot in GoF. He said Snape "rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk... " I've always taken that to mean Snape spent the year between the prophecy and the Potters' deaths acting as double-agent - and didn't become employed at Hogwarts until after Voldemort's fall in Godric's Hollow.

The Black Adder

June 14th, 2004, 3:59 pm

I've liked this DADA theory prinicipally because it fits with one of my theories about Snape. I have noticed that the characters on one level seem to be the various aspects of the psyche. For example, Hermione is the intellect, Ron is emotion, Dumbledore is the inner child, etc. In this scheme, I see Snape as the Superego, which is often referred to as "the parent", because he is always busting Harry's chops about breaking the rules. With this in mind, I think it fits that Snape wants to be "the DADA".

I hadn't thought about the MM or MoM coincidence before, but there may be something to it being a clue about Lily's employment.

Regarding when Snape started teaching at Hogwarts, we don't really know whether it was at the beginning of the year, or after Voldy fell.

purplehawk

June 14th, 2004, 4:30 pm

SuperEgo would suit Snape to a "t." So would assuming the job formerly held by James Potter and exceeding James' achievements in the position.

Glee

June 15th, 2004, 12:09 am

Um... well it is a stretch, but it could be something. in the books, dudley called his mom mom, so maybe the clue didn't have to be mum. And isn't it funny that no one has ever told harry where his parents worked? i mean, that would be one of the first things I would ask.

But i don't think that harry will be a professor. i read an interview:

"gazza: will harry become head master of hogwarts
JK Rowling replies -> I'm not sure I can see Harry in an academic career, he's seen so much action!"

from mugglenet.com

rotsiepots

June 15th, 2004, 6:35 am

SuperEgo would suit Snape to a "t." So would assuming the job formerly held by James Potter and exceeding James' achievements in the position.

Out of sheer curiosity, purp, why are you typing "Snape" as "Snape"? :huh:

Erm, I've checked my books and triple checked on paper and it looks like the Lexicon is wrong (quell horreur!). It looks like I'll never rely on them again. ;)

Well, if this is the case, then Snape started work one month before James died, so I think it's highly unlikely that they ever worked together or jostled over who would be the DADA Professor. I think we can strike James off as ever being a teacher, but I'm not willing to discount the theory that Lily worked in the Ministry.