A school divided?

[Inkwolf]

We all know that the Ministry will be divided between those who believe Voldemort is back, and those who refuse to believe.

But...what about Hogwarts? It's not absolutely certain, is it, that EVERY teacher will believe Dumbledore and Harry? There are bound to be some teachers that have doubts.

What teachers do you think might not believe? Snape and McGonagall are clearlyin the know, and not likely to doubt.

But after a summer to think things over, what about the others? Do you ythink any of the teachers will support Fudge?

[Filius Flitwick]

I think most if not all of the profs will be in support of Dumbledore. He commands a certain respect, one that Fudge probably hasn't earned since he hasn't been around them as much as Dumbledore.

[jordmundt6]

I think Flitwick will support Dumbledore. The division will really be among the students. Those Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs who have stupid parents will come back secure inthe "knowledge" that Voldemort has not returned and those Slytherins with DE parents will come back galvinized for the fight ahead. There won't be dissension in the staff unless is foemented by the new DADA. Here's a terrible thought. What if it's Skeet? We know she's taking a "one year" sabbatical from writing. What if this is her fill-in job?

I don't see Sinistra or Vector making waves and Trelawney (as always) is irrelevent. I don't know who teaches Muggle Studies but I doubt a lot of flack will come from that position. The staff (even Snape) are solidly behind Dumbledore. It's the students (like good old Ernie Mac and the lemings he influences) that we have to watch.

[Tarawyn]

Good topic.

I don't think that Sprout or Flitwick are likely to support Fudge; we haven't seen any of them showing anything near doubt in Dumbledore, and considering a) his reputation, b) that these are his colleagues and know him considerably better than other people, and c) they seem pretty sensible/knowledgable/realistic, so coming to grips with reality shouldn't be too difficult.

I have my doubts that Trelawney will take her eyes off the stars for long enough to figure out, but...she does like those horrible predictions, but, IMO, isn't very strong-willed. If she pays attention to what's going on, she's likely to be either pleased or terrified, neither of which implies that she'll deny the situation - so I think she'll go with Dumbledore, whatever good that does.

As for the other teachers, we don't know enough about them to judge, but I wouldn't be surprised if at least one or maybe two sided with Fudge. But what would a teacher against Dumbledore do? They could quietly disapprove of what Dumbledore was doing; make noises but keep their jobs and lives as intact as they could manage; or leave. They'd stir dissent with the students and build tension no matter what. I'm interested to see where Rowling will take this one. But I agree with jordmundt6 that it's the students we should be watching, at least for now - after all, the books are from Harry's point of view, and besides for atmosphere, I'm not sure how much effect teachers' opinions have on students.

[flibbertigibbet]

Trelawney will likely be jumping with joy, as this will give her a new reason to predict Harry's imminent death...

It seems to me that Hogwarts' staff does have a certain respect for Dumbledore. They have seen how he runs Hogwarts from the inside, and have reason to believe he is right.

Besides, they were all at the Tournament. They saw Harry and Cedric disappear, they saw Harry bring back Cedric. A few of them saw Crouch Jr. in his real form. They also, unlike Fudge, don't have high-standing Ministry positions at stake. If anything, their jobs would be at stake from going against Dumbledore, not supporting him.

It's not unlikely there will be difference of opinion among the staff, but I think most of them will ultimately support Dumbledore.

[MadMagic]

I think that most of the staff will be supportive of Dumbledore. I can't really think of anyone that would oppose him at the school, as the only teachers we have seen with strong personalities who would go against Dumbledore are McGonagall and Snape, who are both teachers who I think will strongly support Dumbledore.

[rotsiepots]

Personally, I think the situation is most likely to be the rest of the wizarding world versus Dumbledore and his allies (these include the professors at Hogwarts). The new DADA teacher could cause a few problems, but we don't know too much about her yet, unfortunately.

Similarly, I can also imagine some students causing trouble within Hogwarts -- there will be some parents who firmly support Fudge and encourage their children to do the same. No doubt Dumbledore's words at the end of GoF would have enraged these parents; it will be interesting to see if there are any repercussions.

I think the faculty (with the possible exception of the new DADA) are firmly behind Dumbledore, though. He's far too powerful to be doubted.

[jordmundt6]

But he doesn't rule through power. If somebody wants to be willfully blind, he'll allow it. That's what makes him fundamentally different from Voldemort. In the end it might be scared saps like Fudge and not Voldemort who eventually undermine, imprison and/or kill Dumbledore.

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by rotsiepots (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=304220#post304220))
Similarly, I can also imagine some students causing trouble within Hogwarts -- there will be some parents who firmly support Fudge and encourage their children to do the same. No doubt Dumbledore's words at the end of GoF would have enraged these parents; it will be interesting to see if there are any repercussions.


I totally agree with that. I think a rift will definitely form between the students, due to parental influence. This might be where we'll see some of the students whom we've only heard about have something to say.

[Moonstone]

I can't see any of the known professors causing unrest, but the new DADA teacher will be a wild card. The students, on the other hand, will probably be as divided as the magical world: those factions that believe (and are either fearful or delighted) and those that do not choose to believe. And their attitudes will be due in part to the reactions they experience at home.

I wonder what the repercussions will be from the parents of the frightened children after Dumbledore's speech at the end of Book 4. As long as the press continues to ignore the story and the Ministry denies it (assuming they even acknowledge it), then Dumbledore will look as he is simply promoting public hysteria. This can cause a backlash against Dumbledore in public sentiment and may not play well with the school governors.

I think it will take a very overt and undeniable move on Voldemort's part to galvinize support to Dumbledore's side besides the support he (Dumbledore) already has from those already faithful to him, some sort of tragedy that will bring them back together in no uncertain terms. Until then, the school and the magical community will be remain divided.

[rotsiepots]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=304245#post304245))
But he doesn't rule through power. If somebody wants to be willfully blind, he'll allow it. That's what makes him fundamentally different from Voldemort. In the end it might be scared saps like Fudge and not Voldemort who eventually undermine, imprison and/or kill Dumbledore.


I wasn't trying to infer that he did. With Dumbledore's power, comes a great deal of respect -- the faculty realise he wouldn't knowingly mislead them and would thus follow his stance on Voldemort's return.

:)

[xxquixx]

i personally believe that there would be no division among the teachers but only on the students.

it would be worse if draco acts as if he doesn't believe voldemort's back. could you imagine the reaction of ron on this? :p

[H0gwartz]

I think that the slytherins will most likely not even show up next year, i mean now that they all know Lucious and Crab and Goyle work for the Lord Voldemort then why the heck would they send their children to Dumbledore, as for the other classes i think hufflepuff and Ravenclaw will choose to believe what dumbledore has told them. And we already know gryfindores opinion.

[lorna]

I don't see the staff (excepting maybe the new DADA) as being divided
but I do see problems at Hogwarts because a number of the students have death eaters for parents. Those students might certainly start being more of a problem even if it's just a general increase in insolence and lack of respect for Dumbledore and those who support him.
And as Voldemort gains more of a toe hold --- could get nasty

[Quasi_EviL]

I don't know about the Slytherins not even showing up next year. If they're anything like Draco, they'll be flaunting themselves in the stupidest manner. "We're the bad guys, what are you gonna do about it?" I don't think the Death Eaters (as well as their children) are at the point where they want to hide any more, like after Harry defeated Voldemort.

[rusk]

HOgwartz: The Slytherins who are children of Death Eaters will still show up at school.

JKR has invested far too much time and effort developing the character of Malfoy, and to a lesser extent, Crabbe and Goyle to just drop them out of the series at this point.

Now, whether or not the Slytherin DE kids will be told by their parents to let on as if nothing is different remains to be seen.

I can see it both ways. They might openly flaunt their connection to Voldemort, or they might conceal it until the Death Eaters gain more power.

[Weatherby]

We haven't met every teacher have we?
I agree Snape, Mcgonagal, Flitwick, Hagrid, Sprout,etc. won't be siding with Fudge.

We don't know who Fudge could place at the school. He did say he let Dumbledore have too much control.
What about the schoolboard? They were easily intimidated/threatened by Lucius in CoS.

[Sinistra]

Yes, Weatherby, the school governors may be a problem, even if Lucius Malfoy is no longer among their number.

Prof. Binns probably will not care one way or another. All he is interested in is history, and Voldemort's reappearance is news, not history.

There may well be one or more teachers who are secret Death Eaters. I have my suspicions, but that's another thread.

Trelawney may say it's mass hysteria, only because she likes to be contrary and seem as if she knows more than anyone else could. She will be pleased to be able to predict more deaths, because that's high drama. Another thought, each year, Trelawney predicts the death of a student. We know it's Harry in his year, but Cedric was ahead of Harry. Did she predict Cedric's death? It would be interesting if she did, then she could crow about her success.

[dorcasderr]

Good question Sinistra...and will she predict the death of the "fan" of Harry's who is slated to die in this next book? In reference to whether the Slytherins will be back. I'm pretty sure they will, but that they won't YET acknowledge Voldemort's return...because it would help in the effort to make Dumbledore look bad, an effort I have no doubt is in the works.

[zoeydsngwrtr]

I believe that Hogwarts will be the most united place when it comes to this; so many of the students there have in fact been affected by the return of Voldemort, and know what has been going on. Also, I wouldn't be suprised if ALL the teachers support DD. I can see the wizarding world getting in a bit of a tiff over this though, and some of the students whose parent don't agree with DD disagreeing with him.

[Bilbo]

I don't think Hogwarts will be united. First to consider would be Syltherin. Of course, they know the truth. But most of them will be delighted. Some, however,may support Dumbledore. Cedric's house, Hufflepuff, I believe will support Dumbledore. His death affected them the most, so they will stand united. Ravenclaw will most likely have a few here or there who don't support Dumbledore. Gryffindor's members will most likely support Dumbledore. As for the teachers, aside from any new additions, I doubt they will support Fudge.

[Buttercup]

Based on what we know of the teachers so far the only one that I think would not support DD is Trelawny. She is a total kook. She will probably do what she wants. That doesn't mean she will help Voldemort but that she won't necesarily support DD either. There is obvious tension between McGonagal and her and I don't think that will help either.

[GrangerGal]

jordmundt6 you said "The division will really be among the students. Those Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs who have stupid parents will come back secure inthe "knowledge" that Voldemort has not returned and those Slytherins with DE parents will come back galvinized for the fight ahead." I am not sure what you mean by stupid parents. Do you mean all the Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws' parents will just ignore the fact that V is back or do you mean that the "stupid" parents who don't want to believe that he is back? Anyway which ever one I do agree with you that I think that the rift will be between those who believe that Voldemort returned, those who don't believe, and those who like Voldemort's politics.

I am not sure about some of the teachers we haven't seen. We haven't really seen enough of Sinistra or Vector and we don't know ANYTHING about the new DADA except that she has a personality like posioned honey!

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by GrangerGal (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=305397#post305397))
I am not sure about some of the teachers we haven't seen. We haven't really seen enough of Sinistra or Vector and we don't know ANYTHING about the new DADA except that she has a personality like posioned honey!


Do you think those teachers will feature prominently in the next 3 books, are or they simply going to be names without a face?

[GrangerGal]

I hope that they will be seen b/c I think that will help us understand more about the dynamics of Hogwarts! I think that we will be able to understand who will be with Dumbledore and who will not be with him! That will also help us understand how the children will be taught and what will be done to help them.

[Star]

I think most of the teachers will support dumbledore, after all he is the head of the school and the teachers look up to him, i think professor trelawney may not support dumbledore though, other teachers like sprout and flitwick i think will support him.:yup: !! ;D

[Blayde]

I think the division will be among the students, and we'll see three factions emerging:

The Good: You'll see students from all houses in this, even Slytherin, as the students who are willing to fight Voldemort
The Bad: These will be few, but they will begin to get stronger and stronger over time
The Nuetrals: Students who refuse to believe V is back, or do not join either side for whatever reason

I expect this will all come to a head in the last book, and it will be in Hogwarts itself where the final battle takes place. I also expect it to be far more large-scale-- not just Harry and a few allies, but the full force of both sides converging to end what was started decades before.

[RogueRiver]

I bet one thing we might see is the transfer of some Slytherin students out of Hogwarts, away from Dumbledore, to Durmstrang, which is friendlier to the Dark Arts. Conversely, Fudge might recruit some Durmstrang personnel for Hogwarts as a check on Dumbledore's authority.

[Perdita]

If Rowling is going to write about dissension within the school, it must be written to serve a bigger purpose in the story. As such, the characters who participate in defying DD must also have strong backup in terms of their importance in the story, their character’s personality and values, as well as their motive.

Currently, with the teachers that we have heard of, or only know very little of, I cannot see Rowling setting them up all of a sudden just to show dissent amongst the faculty members. That would appear contrived, because we have never known any of these teachers to be defiant or doubtful of DD’s abilities. Because of this, we can only assume that they are supporters.

Since there is a possibility that the new DADA teacher is a new character, this teacher might be the one to create dissension. However, I doubt he or she would go far with the other teachers at Hogwarts, if this proves to be the case.

I agree with Jordmundt6 that if there is open dissent, it will come from the students, and most likely the Slytherins, based on the history of certain non-conformist students. I can't see the Hufflepuffs or the Ravenclaws deliberately causing DD any grief.

Weatherby’s idea that the school governors might cause trouble is an intriguing one.

[FoolOnTheHill]

Here's what I think: There will not be much division in the faculty, even with the DADA teacher. Think about, why would Dumbledore hire a new teacher who is against him? He wouldn't! Especially for Defence Against the Dark Arts of all things. He knows they need to get really serious in this subject, with all the danger and huge amount of dark arts that's going to be going on soon. I really doubt he would hire someone to teach what is now possibly the most important subject who doesn't even believe Voldemort is back.

But there will be division with the students I think. But I won't elaborate on that because you guys all said exactly what I was thinking on that subject. :)

[sugarquill]

I wonder if the slytherin students will be a threat to harry, will they be used to get to him perhaps. After all, the death eaters' kids are the children of the enemy so to speak.

[Amina]

as far as divisions within society, i think it is almost inevitable that they will exist. including book five, jkr still has three to develope the story in...voldemort isn't going to be shot down until book seven imo. i think the next couple will be about his rising power and the effort to stop him. if the ministry were to involve themselves straight away, there would be very little story line, this is all going to be about dumbledore's supporters fighting it out...

thus, the school...well, my guess is dumbledore might be removed from headship at some point in the future. that was almost so in CoS...can you imagine what fudge is going to think of his behaviour over voldemort? i think that what has been said about the slytherins is correct...they will be prancing around like it's christmas.

hufflepuff...well, i think maybe they won't want to acknowledge it. some people just won't want to admit that the horror could return. who wants to bet fudge was a hufflepuff? ;) ravenclaw are probably more sensible, but i dunno...

but, what if dumbledore hasn't had a choice about the new DADA teacher. they're not supposed to be nice (poisoned honey) and maybe has been put there by the ministry, with their own agenda? they could try and cause trouble amongst the students

[Barbara Kennedy]

I'm sure there will be tensions within the school. Mostly from students or their parents.
All in all, however, I believe the school will rally together behind Dumbledore in opposing Voldemort and his followers.

[AvidSkyRise]

I think Hogwarts could definitely be divided between those who think Voldemort is right and such, especially since most of their parents probably work in the ministry and would have some visible opinions about it (Like Ron)
I'm sure there's going to be many fights and arguements about this but in the end the result will be the same. It's kind of like when they thought Harry was the heir of slytherin, some of them thought he was evil and some of them didn't. In the end they will pull together.

[Barbara Kennedy]

I think Dumbledore will head off a lot of the division by trying to keep everyone at the school informed of the TRUTH. That is the best defense.

[Shells Bells]

I also see divisions among the Hogwarts students, I think that the those Slytherin students that have parents that are in League with Voldemort will support voldie just like their parents did/do.

I think that some of the Slytherin students will not. Salazar Slytherin valued Ambition and Purity of Blood for his students. I think that some of the Slytherin's are not necessarily bad just ambitious. Ambition can be a good thing, it can help you to rise above your present circumstances. This ambition will lead some of them to follow Voldemort but I think that some of them will support Dumbledore. They might have to be secretive about it but I think that they will support him.

[Barbara Kennedy]

If the scene at the end of GoF is any indication, You could be right. Not all the Slytherins stood to salute Harry as they had Cedric, but many of them did.

[Quote] page723 US version

Dumbledore turned gravely to Harry and raised his goblet once more. Nearly everyone in the Great Hall followed suit. They murmured his name, as they had murmured Cedric's, and drank to him. But through a gap in the standing figures, Harry saw Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle and many of the other Slytherins had remained defiantly in their seats, their goblets untouched. Dumbledore, who after all possessed no magical eye, did not see them.

[end quote]