Would Harry still have fancied Cho if she wasn't pretty?

[Carina]

Like the Thread title says, What if Cho Chang wasn't extremely pretty? Would Harry have the crush he has now?
Please discuss. :)

[Prof.Aze]

Probably not. As what the book says Harry got a crush on Cho Chang because she is extremely pretty.:whistle:

[Prof.Aze]

By the way. Welcome to CosForums Carina...:welcome:

[whizbang121]

attraction is a funny thing. I think our culture makes a huge fuss about "prettiness". But have you ever seen or known someone who wasn't exactly pretty by current standarts, but was still appealing or even sexy? I remember a few years ago, I went to a meeting where foreign exchange students were talking. American students were returning home and sharing their experiences overseas and foreign students were arriving and talking about their homelands and their expectations for their time here.
Among the Americans was an extremely good looking guy who had just returned from a year in Australia. He would have looked good on the cover of anything. Among the foreign students was and Italian guy. He wasn't particularly handsome and you wouldn't have noticed him in a photograph. And he didn't have an athletic build or anything special. But he more than made up for these shortcomings with an outgoing and confident personality. He enjoyed trying to communicate with American girls and I suspect he could speak English better than he let on. He smiled easily, responded attentively and just had a natural way of making eye contact and somehow being sooo sexy without being scary or offensive.

The girls were all over him! Freckles and all! I don't think they even noticed the hunk of American beefcake at the other end of the table.

It's so much more than looks.

[Carina]

Thanks Prof.Aze! :):)

By the way, you're probably right about Harry getting a crush on her because she's pretty...but it's also good to know she's nice too. :p

[Althea]

No, defintely.

Because Harry won't even notice her if she was not pretty. He would've noticed Hermione instead if what he's looking for is brains/something that cannot be seen.

:love:

[Carina]

If you're not "extremely pretty", it kinda makes you feel bad that attractiveness was how the crush started huh? :(
And I agree with whizbang about "prettiness" not being everything. Well, it shouldn't be.

Welcome Althea! :)

[summer65]

No, probably not. As you guys have said the main reason why Harry liked Cho was because she was pretty. Her being nice and good in Quidditch were only plusses.

Still Cho ROCKS! :lol: LMAO! :D

[whizbang121]

But at the risk of going way off topic, how did Krum get Hermione to notice him? It's easy to see why she appealed to him. She was one of the few girls who weren't all over him. But how did he get her to go to the ball with him? Was she trying to make Ron jealous or teach him a lesson for being shallow about appearances? Or are love potions allowed at Durmstrang?

[Carina]

If Hermione is trying to make Ron jealous, it certainly IS working. :p

Let's see...Krum probably went up to her in the library and it all started from there. :) I wonder what made her like him...that's IF she does.

[GrangerGal]

Well it depends on what you mean by pretty. There are different types of pretty or attractive... someone can be sexy, cute, well built, hot... there are so many types. I think Harry found her attractive first and also noticed how nice she was. I don't think he would have found her attractive if she didnt have a good personality. Have you ever met someone who was goodlooking until they openned his or her mouth? Suddenly you do not find them attractive anymore either b/c of their lack of intelligence, snobbery, obnoxious behavior or something else. Personally I think Harry wouldn't continue to have a crush on someone who isn't kind.

[Yadiami]

She is extremely pretty, but not that much, since it seems only Harry thinks that way, I haven't heard anything from Ron or other Quidditch players.
Also, he only notices her in the Quidditch match against Ravenclaw while he must have met her before, in the Great Hall or in a corridor. So he liked she was a Seeker.

[onetruegryffindor]

actually i'd like to know who's gonna play her...
bit embarrassing for Dan

anyway back to the topic... i think Harry sees something special in her but then she's got to be pretty pretty as she did go with Cedric to the Yule ball and he's really popular

[too_wicked]

:welcome: to the boards Carina! Hope to read a lot from you!

Anyway, Maybe Harry won't like Cho if she's not pretty. I think the prettiness was an added bonus to her in my opinion. Harry felt "the thing" when she smiled at him in the match anyway so I think he realized she is nice too so there. In the match against Ravenclaw in PoA, Harry's first reaction of Cho when he first saw her was that she is extremely pretty. Then she smiled at him while the Captains are shaking hands and then there we saw what Harry really feels for her. In the book, Harry felt a slight lurch in his stomach that he thinks has nothing to do with nerves. So there! It's positive that Harry likes Cho for being pretty and for being friendly (the smile said it all).

By the way, since we're talking about Cho, what does Cho look like? I mean, the books never described Cho's looks in detail so we really don't know what Harry's type is. I have a feeling she's Asian looking coz Chang sounds Asian to me. So what do you think?

[Alastor D]

I trust Dan will manage.

[Chalice]

She might be pretty only in Harry's opinion. Sometimes you see people's personality through their looks egven if you don't know them, and it makes them seem good-looking. And I don't necessarily think Harry would've noticed Hermione if he was after a good personality, as Hermione is pretty annoying! She might be clever and his friend, doesn't mean he would think of her in that way.

On the other hand, Harry is a young teenage boy who's only just starting to notice girls so yeah, he probably wouldn't have noticed her if she wasn't pretty. And what's wrong with that sometimes anyway! Personality is the most important thing, but looks are the first thing you see!

Chalice

[Picko]

Harry wouldn't have a crush on Cho if she wasn't pretty. Essentially the only reason Harry ever spoke to her was because he found himself attracted to her, if she wasn't pretty she would just be one of the hundreds of generic characters which Harry doesn't talk to. The crush at the moment is most definately physically related.

Harry didn't have a chance to develop a crush through Cho personality as I said he noticed her physically, he was drawn to her physically and if this didn't take place there would have been no forseeable circumstances in which he talked to her. As it is now Harry has barely talked to Cho.

[She's Crafty]

I really doubt Harry would give her a second thought if Cho was not pretty - she's meant to be a very typical first crush and nine times out of ten it's going to be someone good lucking - and out of reach.

Ok, i'm gonna go slightly out of topic here because this REALLY bothers me - why is it quite a large number of people want Harry and Cho together? I mean, lets think realistically here - Her. Last. Boyfriend. Just. DIED! For heavens sake it's enough to put someone off from ever having another relationship! I hate it when i see that because frankly it's disrespectful to her character, i mean dating someone so quickly makes her seem very cold which from what i can see she patently isn't.

Having said that, i would like to see these two have a talk about Cedric, no doubt Cho might want some closure on that. And knowing JK if such a scene happens she'll make it brilliant and sweet and i'll end up actually liking Cho.

Which brings me to another point - not everyone who dislikes her thinks so because we want Harry with Ginny or whoever. I just find her blandness annoying. I don't ship Harry with anyone - less chance of being disappointed that way.

[too_wicked]

I agree. I personally think Harry should get over his crush on Cho and move on! There are a lot of great girls around him anyway! But I like the idea of Cho and Harry sitting together and talking about Cedric. Maybe that would make Harry feel less guilty about Cedric's death.

[Kedavra]

I think its obvious.Harry would not have even noticed her.He barely knows her.All he knows about her is that she is very pretty.That made him want to get to know her and then he found out how nice she was etc.If she was not so goodlooking then he would have never payed attention to her.Hard to get to know someone if you have no classes with them which Cho does not.There not in the same house or grade

[The Next Weasley]

If she wasn't pretty Harry obviously wouldn't like her, and he wouldn't ask her to the ball, so he would be in a really good mood the night of the ball.

[Amina]

personality is important, but you normally only notice that after you've spoken to someone for a while, and known them a bit. if it's a complete stranger, it's usually looks that attrtact you...you have nothing else to go on. harry probably wouldn't have much of a chance to get to know cho, because she's older and in a different house, so i guess it's inevitable that looks would attract him, no? plus, he is 14! *l*

[rotsiepots]

I'm going to move this into the Common Room.

:)

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

We don't really know what Harry's definition of "pretty" is, other than it seems to coincide with Cedric's. Maybe she was just such a change from the usual collection of hulking male players, she stood out more. :p

[Crystal]

I doubt it! Whatever anyone says first attraction is based purely on a physical reaction.

[Nick]

The books are written in Harry's perspecive. Therefore, anybody who he percieves as being pretty will be written as such. By definition.

[Picko]

Originally posted by CaptainNick (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=315714#post315714))
The books are written in Harry's perspecive. Therefore, anybody who he percieves as being pretty will be written as such. By definition.


Correct...as they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Cho could be completely ugly in my opinion but still be considered pretty by Harry because there is no strict definition of beauty, it will differ between individuals.

[Llopin]

Well, that happens with all persons, some guys find a girl pretty but others don't think so (thought if some girl is considered to be very pretty by someone I doubt any other think's she's ugly).

But Harry likes Cho because she's pretty, he hadn't talked to her and he already blushed.

[Potter_fan]

Harry would most likely accually be interested in Hermione.

[Snowangel]

Harry definetly was attracted by Cho's prettiness. I think this is certainly the main factor in his crush on her.

[-Fabian Bishop-]

In all honesty, being a youth with hormones running amok, I'm sure it's accurate to say that harry's attraction to Cho is indeed spurred by her "prettiness". Like it or not, at that age you're not really looking for someone who's really nice on the inside... besides that's just something ugly people say! ;) :D

-FB-

[RonFan24]

That's pretty much what a crush is, so I don't think Harry would have a crush on Cho if she wasn't pretty.

[Filius Flitwick]

It all depends on the preferences of the person. Some people may not find the facial features of an Asian girl to be pretty, but other people may find those features to be very pretty. Each person has their own idea of what is pretty.

[cynismus]

i'm a HUGE fan of the now defunct show Sports Night. the other night i was watching some episodes (i have the dvd set) and in the episode "Special Powers" which originally aired October 5, 1999, one of the characters makes a reference to a swimmer named Cho Chang. This name sounded ridiculously familiar, and i thought about it for a while until it hit me that this is Harry's crush. If i'm not mistaken, POA was published some time in 2000, and this was the first book that Cho was mentioned. I could be wrong. Is it just me, or is this where JKR got the idea for the girl's name from? Or am i just looking too closely at this?

[Lady~Slytherin]

You never know where JK gets her ideas.
I hate Cho..grr

[Crayak]

PoA was printed mid 1999 in Britain and fall 1999 in US. Because the manuscript would have had to have been turned in around February to be ready for mid year it isn't possible for Sports Night to have had any influence.

[miri]

I've been doing a search for *Cho Chang* and all I came up with were Harry Potter based ones, and the Sports Night ones...

So I searched for ones without Harry Potter and Hogwarts, and got: this (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_qdr=all&q=+swimmer+%22cho+chang+%22+-Hogwarts+-%22Harry+Potter%22&meta=).

I don't think there is a real swimmer Cho Chang, and I don't really see her trawling internet sites in the off-chance she'd find a name...

[rotsiepots]

I'm moving this into the Common Room. :)

[angelslayer04]

hmm...cho chang?:smile:

[Llopin]

I highly doubt JK got the name from that person, he never uses real persons' names, she always invents them, so it must be a coincidence...

[GryffindorSeekerHP]

Yeah, I don't think that JK would get her names from real people. Just real people's names mixed with others ^_^ I don't really think that there WAS a Cho Chang swimmer...not that I know of....

[Bouncing_Ferret]

The last name Chang is pretty common, and I know a girl at school called Cho, so it seems pretty certain that JK's character and the swimmer were just coincidences!

[dumbleedore]

I think JK just wanted a real pretty name and that came to mind. And she gets names from all sorts of places anyways.

[cynismus]

Well I'm pretty sure that the name in the show was not referring to a real person...they tend to make up sports stars' names. That's why I was wondering if JKR got the idea from the show.

[JungMinee012]

I guess it's possible...but not probable.
Like Crayak said, the dates don't really match up- unless JKR created Cho Chang's name at the last minute. But we already know how much she plans ahead from all the little details that turn important later.
I think it's more likely that she just pulled the name out of thin air, or tried to give the girl a stereotypical Asian name.

[JungMinee012]

Like the thread topic says, what nationality is Cho?
We know (or, actually, we have to assume, as JKR never says it outright) that she is Asian, but where in Asia is she from?

I've heard that "Cho" and "Chang" contradict each other or something in Chinese? That one's Mandarin and the other's Cantonese? I'm not familiar with Chinese, and I'm probably wrong, so please correct me if you know otherwise.

Being Korean, I can say that Cho Chang COULD be a Korean name. Chang is a relatively common surname (although actually pronounce "Jang"). One-syllable first names are pretty uncommon, but names like Cho do exist.
I have to add, though, that alliterations in names don't sound half as good in Korean as they do in English, so Chang Cho would be a kind of weird name. To me, it sounds more like a kind of fish than a name.

Ideas, anyone?

[rotsiepots]

I'm assuming you're attempting to interpret Cho Chang's ancestry, rather than nationality. By all accounts, she definitely seems to be British.

I don't really know a lot about Asian names, sorry. I have a vague recollection that "Cho" means butterfly (?) in Japanese...I think. Her name doesn't have to make sense, given the fact that she's British -- her parents might just have liked the name "Cho" and not paid much attention to its origins.

P.S. I'm merging this thread with a few others to create a "Cho Chang" super-thread. :)

[GryffindorSeekerHP]

Wait...if Cho Chang is Asian...how come she goes to Hogwarts then? Isn't it for only witches and wizards in the UK? You don't see any American wizards running about...no African wizards...no Brazilian, Spanish, French, ect...what's up with that?

[Llopin]

Come on, her family is probably from asian, but they have moved to the UK, so they're asians but live in Britain. That's perfectly possible....

[NepSy]

I think he only has a crush on her because she's pretty! He's 14 years, it's usual that he feels atracted by one girl only because she's pretty.

[Puffskein]

Yep, there are a lot of ASians in Britain. Mostly Indian or Pakistani but there are quite a few from the Far East too.

[Carina]

[/QUOTE]I think it's more likely that she just pulled the name out of thin air, or tried to give the girl a stereotypical Asian name.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly what I think.

Anyway, like in Australia you find people from around the world.
Asian, African (-American), Italian etc.
And we're all Australian.

[Moonlight]

It's a littel obvious that Harry had a crush on Cho because she seemed pretty to him.

He hadn't known her personally before their first quidditch match, so it doesn't look like there's anything else to admire her for.

[SiriusPig]

I f Cho Chang wasn't pretty I think that Harry might have felt the same but I am not completely sure about that.

[ChoChanger]

well i was thinking about this and well how do we know that cho chang IS extremelly pretty? i mean she's described like that in the book but don't we all have a differnt opinion on whats attractive so to us cho chang might not be what we would call attractive but to harry she might be heaven lol, anyway back to the question, it hink harry was attracted mainly because of looks because when he was first attracted to her he didn't know anything about her and just had looks to go on...which is perfectly normal for a 14yr old boy if you ask me :D

Luv Cho xxx

[DarkMark90]

The only reason that Harry liked Cho was because she was "pretty" to him. I happen to not like Cho, because I think that she gets jealous easily. She got mad at Harry because he needed to meet Hermione, who is one of Harry's best friends, and just so happens to be a girl. She shouldn't have gotten mad over that. Cho gets jealous too easily.

[NamelessOne]

I doubt Harry would be as attracted to her, but he would probably still notice her. As far as we can tell, she’s the only person of Asian descent in the whole school.

I always assumed she was Chinese, just because of her last name and the fact that Hong Kong used to belong to the UK. However, Rowling may not even have thought about it. Most white people I know can’t tell/don’t care about the difference between Asian nationalities, but that could just be a local attitude.

[Bee]

Cho is described as being very pretty in the books, with long shiny black hair, and that combination would be very eye-catching. There's something about really long, shiny hair that catches your eye. And also the fact that she's a Seeker, like Harry, they obviously have something in common. I think the main reason Harry has a crush on her is because she's pretty. That's usually why crushes are formed, because he didn't know her very well, so what other reason would there be?

As for Cho's name, I think JKR was looking for an Asian-sounding name that flowed well, and Cho Chang is a very nice-sounding name. It rolls off your tongue very well, and I think it sounds like the name of a really pretty girl :D

[Fawks Phinix]

WHAT GIVES HER THE RIGHT TO MESS WITH HARRY'S FEELINGS LIKE THAT KISSING HIM UNDER THE MISSLETOE AND THEN GETTING ALL JELOUS AND STUFF JUST BECAUSE HE WENT TO GO MEET A CLOSE FRIEND WHO JUST HAPPENED TO BE FEMALE?!!!!!(breath hard) I BELIEVE THAT CHO CHANG IS NOTHING BUT A SELFISH LITTLE GIRL WHO HAS EMOTIONALY SCARED THAT POOR BOY FOR LIFE!!!!!(breath even harder) THE POOR BOYS FIRST KISS WILL BE WITH THE MEMORY OF A GIRL CRYING WHILE IT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!

[koli]

If Cho wasn't pretty i doubt he would have really had such a crush on her. He really hadn't talked to her ever. If the circumstances were different though and Cedric hadn't died so she wasn't so emotional i think things might have been different, he had good conversations w/ her on teh way to hogsmeade. But then again she seemed maybe too emotional for Harry...

[Baron_G]

The Patil twins are asian too. Cho's looks were certainly what attracted him in the first place. The fact that she smiled at him before the game, that they had an almost flirtatious aspect to their seeker contest, that Cho wished him luck for the final against Slytherin even after losing to him, definitely got him hooked. He just had to ask her out to the Yule ball.

Too bad it didn't work out. I do believe they had resolved the Cedric issue after his Quibbler interview. To think she could have heard it first hand had she accompanied him to see Hermione in the Three Broomsticks. Of course, Marietta then turned out to be the other obstruction to their relationship.
There were simply too many arguments between them, that they could barely get off the ground(or out of dry-dock in shipping terms).

[Cindy]

I don't think so. In my opinion it's a cruel fact that boys are more attracted to looks than personality in their teenage years. That's only my opinion though, for I know some boys who treasure good personalities more than looks. But Harry fell in love at his first sight of Cho in the Quidditch Pitch. So I think if Cho wasn't pretty he wouldn't have fell in love with her. Now that he has finally found out what a cry baby Cho is he broke up with her.

[Vigilance]

Does anyone else think she didn't have enough time with Cedric to really be that infatuated with him--that it would make her feel guilty for liking Harry, whom she sorta liked B.C. (that is, before Cerdric)?

As to why Harry liked her--we are told that she is extremely attractive, plus she's a flirt, and a good Seeker (not as good as Harry, so his tiny male ego isn't bruised). They broke up because of the betraying friend of Cho, Marietta. Harry would have put up with being soggy for another few months, I imagine. But, would Cho put up with someone so emotionally unavailable for that long? That's my question.

[Lupin_Lady]

It's so hard to tell if he would have liked her if she were unattractive, but I think that it is great to have Harry, a caucasian boy falling for Cho, an Asian girl!!! :)
When Cho wasn't a blubbering mess, she did have a pretty good personality...

[NamelessOne]

That’s actually a fairly common combo where I live. I think a Caucasian male dating an Asian female is probably the most . . . culturally acceptable? . . . non-threatening? . . . interracial pairing, at least in the U.S.

[SnorkackCatcher]

That’s actually a fairly common combo where I live. I think a Caucasian male dating an Asian female is probably the most . . . culturally acceptable? . . . non-threatening? . . . interracial pairing, at least in the U.S.
On the whole in the UK these days, interracial pairings are sufficiently common that probably the majority of people (not all, obviously) really aren't that bothered, even the ones who wouldn't want to go that route themselves. OK, this doesn't apply in situations where there is a lot of racial tension between different communities, but on a general cultural basis (e.g. as a pairing on a TV soap opera) it's not particularly noteworthy.

Given that many wizards in the HP books seem to see themselves as a race apart anyway, ethnic differences probably aren't as significant to them as the pure-blood/muggleborn distinction.

As to the actual thread topic, Harry first notices Cho when he sees her at the G/R Quidditch match, and it's pretty clearly a purely physical attraction. Cho seems to fancy Harry as well, whether for looks or fame isn't really clear. At no point do they seem to really click mentally.

[Kelroy]

I doubt Harry would have. The whole idea behind him fancying her was because he noticed her, and how pretty she was. That's kinda how it goes when you're that age. You fancy someone because they're attractive to you physically. You're not really looking for deeper emotional bonds, etc.

[NamelessOne]

On the whole in the UK these days, interracial pairings are sufficiently common that probably the majority of people (not all, obviously) really aren't that bothered, even the ones who wouldn't want to go that route themselves. OK, this doesn't apply in situations where there is a lot of racial tension between different communities, but on a general cultural basis (e.g. as a pairing on a TV soap opera) it's not particularly noteworthy.

Which is why I was surprised that Lupin_Lady would find it so "great to have Harry, a caucasian boy falling for Cho, an Asian girl." Actually, the fact that you mention people "who wouldn't want to go that route themselves" suggests to me that people there may be more bothered than you might think.

I still stand by my assertion that some interracial pairings are more culturally accepted than others, at least in the U.S. Look at Hollywood. How many White male/Asian female pairings do you see compared to Asian male/White female pairings? In most places here, a Black male dating a White female is likely to get ugly stares wherever they go, if he's lucky.

Sorry if I'm being cynical, but I've found that people in general tend to be very reluctant to admit that prejudice exists within their own community, or, if they admit that it does, they tend to underestimate the degree to which it exists.

Case in point: During my Junior year of High School, my teacher asked the class to raise their hands if they had ever witnessed racism within our school. Only one white student raised her hand (she was a new student from a much more racially diverse area), but every single non-white student raised his.

Given that many wizards in the HP books seem to see themselves as a race apart anyway, ethnic differences probably aren't as significant to them as the pure-blood/muggleborn distinction.

This is true. However, I very much doubt that Harry wouldn't have at least noticed that Cho wasn't white, even if it wasn't important to him. If you came across a group of people, and every single person in that group happened to be Asian except for one white girl, you'd notice that girl, at least in the back of your mind, wouldn't you?

As to the actual thread topic, Harry first notices Cho when he sees her at the G/R Quidditch match, and it's pretty clearly a purely physical attraction. Cho seems to fancy Harry as well, whether for looks or fame isn't really clear. At no point do they seem to really click mentally.

Agreed.

[Furienna]

It seems like it was looks that turned Harry on, you know, but I guess that could mean that he fell for her charisma as much it can mean that he fell for her appearance. Remember that if Harry and Ron really were going only for looks, they would be more pleased than what they were when they went to the GOF yule ball with the Patil twins. Either Dean or Seamus called them the prettiest girls in the year, so Harry can't be that prettiness-obsessed, or he would have fancied Parvati before he fancied Cho. Anyhow, I never thought Harry and Cho would make a good couple, so I was pleased of the breaking up, and mind you, I can really hate breaking-ups, if the couple were a good match, but then, Harry and Cho were a bad match. Cho might not be evil or so, at least not to Harry, but she's surely not his type of girl.

[slyther_girl]

Hey, :clap:

I don´t know I think it depends...because she could be a little cute and she is a very nice person, right? But I don´t know probably Harry wouldn´t fancied Cho if she wasen´t extremely pretty...

[SnorkackCatcher]

Which is why I was surprised that Lupin_Lady would find it so "great to have Harry, a caucasian boy falling for Cho, an Asian girl." Actually, the fact that you mention people "who wouldn't want to go that route themselves" suggests to me that people there may be more bothered than you might think.
People "here" in my case. I'm a Brit. :)

I still stand by my assertion that some interracial pairings are more culturally accepted than others, at least in the U.S. Look at Hollywood. How many White male/Asian female pairings do you see compared to Asian male/White female pairings? In most places here, a Black male dating a White female is likely to get ugly stares wherever they go, if he's lucky.

Sorry if I'm being cynical, but I've found that people in general tend to be very reluctant to admit that prejudice exists within their own community, or, if they admit that it does, they tend to underestimate the degree to which it exists.
No, you're not being cynical - just accurate. There is still plenty of racial prejudice in Britain, but my point was that the country-wide average level of it among white people has dropped considerably over the last 25 years or so (say from "dislike" to "indifference"). In 1980, many - perhaps even most - white Brits would have been uneasy merely about having black players in the national football or cricket teams, and instinctively and actively hostile to interracial pairings. These days, the former causes no comment whatsoever outside of a few diehards, and in many places the latter aren't especially noteworthy.

However, I very much doubt that Harry wouldn't have at least noticed that Cho wasn't white, even if it wasn't important to him. If you came across a group of people, and every single person in that group happened to be Asian except for one white girl, you'd notice that girl, at least in the back of your mind, wouldn't you?
I'm sure he did notice, but JKR didn't see fit to make a point of it, which is presumably making a point in itself (I'm sure there are various interpretations of what that point might be).

Cho isn't the only girl of Asian descent Harry knows - the Patil twins presumably are as well, and they seem to be generally regarded as the best-looking girls in the year. Harry certainly thought Parvati was attractive, and she certainly seemed happy enough to be asked out by him, but he was just too hung up on Cho to pay her enough attention to even keep her in a good mood (bad move, Harry old son, bad move).

Come to think of it, Cho is described as turning red when she gets embarrassed, so she must be fairly pale skinned, actually.

[Dru Malfoy]

Sorry to disturb that Asian-girl stuff a bit (as I personally don't think it means much) - but I think there was something else about Cho Chang that wasn't mentioned yet (although I might have overlooked it): she is a Quidditch player. There is a certain attraction between people who share a passion for the same thing. Harry's greatest passion and talent is Quidditch - so that might have added to the fact that he thought Cho was pretty. I would even go as far as to say, she might not have appeared that pretty to him if she wasn't a Quidditch-player - more than that: she's a seeker, like Harry himself. So I think it was not all about her being pretty but also about her loving Quidditch like he does.

[Furienna]

Come to think of it, Cho is described as turning red when she gets embarrassed, so she must be fairly pale skinned, actually.
Actually, many south east asians have almost as light scin as europeans / caucasians do. While people of european origin can be called white, people of african origin can be called black and people of indian (native American) origin can be called red, people of south east asian origin can be called yellow. And note that yellow is a light color.

But really now, don't black people blush? :huh:

[SnorkackCatcher]

But really now, don't black people blush? :huh:
They do, it's just not so obvious. :)

I think there was something else about Cho Chang that wasn't mentioned yet (although I might have overlooked it): she is a Quidditch player.
Good point - it's definitely a plus point attraction-wise to find a girl who likes football. :)

Oh, and let me express my appreciation for the sig - Garak is one of my favourite DS9 characters!

[Grapez]

Ok, so most people agree he fancied her because she is pretty. Now for the interesting part. Does it affect anything or anyone?

[Furienna]

Well since they're over, I don't think it won't matter at all anymore, except maybe Harry and Cho will be captains for a Quidditch teams each and them having had that kiss and that date might make that awkward.

[AurorSlayer]

Ok, so most people agree he fancied her because she is pretty. Now for the interesting part. Does it affect anything or anyone?

Well, the point would mean that Harry's hormones are like most boys. This observation also proves that Harry makes judgements on instincts or emotions rather than on thought, which is pretty consistant with the other bahavior he has shown in the past. Harry noticed Cho because she was pretty and she was playing Quidditch - translation: They had something in common that they both loved.

Does this reality affect anything or anyone? Only female intellectuals :whistle: , rival Quidditch teams, and Butterbeer sales.

[GryffindorSeeker]

I think Harry wouldn't have really noticed her if she wasn't pretty, but I do think that her being pretty wasn't the only thing. They both liked Quidditch, were good at it, and were Seekers. Course, Cho did do a bit of flirting of a type in that one Quidditch match... :lol:

[dobby_rocks]

Sadly he probably would not have, at this age looks is a big thing. It’s when your older that you relize that look on the outside are just that. It should be if a person is beautiful on the inside. Even for some older people Looks is the number one thing, it shouldn’t be but that is a part of society




The Patil twins are Indian , which is what UK apparently calls Asians

Cho Chang is like Japanese, Koran , Chinese which the UK call Oriental , which in the US is consider bad its like call a black person the N word

[Pumpkin Juice]

Does Harry still like her after book five. I thought she annoyed him. Or maybe it was that she just annoyed me. :p

[dracosgoddess89]

I don't believe so because he started likeing her in like his third year before he had ever talked to her .... :shrug:

[jasper]

I'd say not. Harry never yet shows himself fascinated with any girl based on her wit, sense of humor, compassion, brilliant quidditch ability, generosity, singing voice, conversation or anything else (besides looks.)

It would be interesting if he got a crush on someone next time who he doesn't find pretty or physically attractive. That's a weird crush to have.

[Grapez]

Well, the point would mean that Harry's hormones are like most boys.
Well, of course they are! I mean, I think his actions are quite normal, concerning Cho.

[Dagmar]

Well if beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And the stories are from Harry's perspective, all we have to go on is that Harry thinks she's pretty. Doesn't matter if she is or not.

[dobby_rocks]

Well if beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And the stories are from Harry's perspective, all we have to go on is that Harry thinks she's pretty. Doesn't matter if she is or not.


That is true others might not find her attractive at all

Does Harry still like her after book five. I thought she annoyed him. Or maybe it was that she just annoyed me. :p

I think he liked her but was annoyed that she always wanted to talk about Cedric or was weeping

[ErickGama]

I think that Harry might not like her anymore if she had somehting in her face or if she became ugglier (is that how you spell it?). Unless, he is in truly love with her and no matter what, he would marry her, but I think he will like her as she will be in the future, not just about pretty but also in your soul! Soul is a lot more important than cute girls and boys. (am I right?)

[NamelessOne]

I'm sure he did notice, but JKR didn't see fit to make a point of it, which is presumably making a point in itself (I'm sure there are various interpretations of what that point might be).

Actually, I was sort of addressing that comment to those who said that Harry wouldn't even notice Cho if she wasn't pretty. Asians seem rare enough at Hogwarts that his brain would probably give a slight jump at the sight of her, and the fact that she was the other team's Seeker seems to make that suggestion even more unlikely. . . . Or am I just misunderstanding their use of the word "notice"?

One thing that confused me was why Rowling chose to avoid identifying people as Asian while introducing at least most of the black people as, well, black. If she didn't want to mention race, wouldn't it have been just as easy to describe Dean Thomas, Angelina Johnson, and so on as dark-skinned or something?

Cho isn't the only girl of Asian descent Harry knows - the Patil twins presumably are as well, and they seem to be generally regarded as the best-looking girls in the year. Harry certainly thought Parvati was attractive, and she certainly seemed happy enough to be asked out by him, but he was just too hung up on Cho to pay her enough attention to even keep her in a good mood (bad move, Harry old son, bad move).

Actually, to my eyes, Indian and Chinese girls look nothing alike, but maybe they do to non-Asians. In fact, I usually don't think of Indians as Asians, per se. Indians are just . . . Indians . . . just like Russians are just Russians. That's probably a cognitive error on my part, though.

Come to think of it, the Patil twins almost have to be part-Caucasian. I don't have the book with me, so I can't be entirely sure, but during the History of Magic O.W.L. Harry stares at the back of Parvati's head and notices that her hair looks gold or brown (I can't remember which) when the sunlight hits it right. Pure Asian hair doesn't do this. It produces a white/silvery color instead. Then again, this could simply be a mistake on Rowling's part, or Parvati could simply have doused it with horrible chemicals like so many Asian girls do nowadays. :shrug:

Come to think of it, Cho is described as turning red when she gets embarrassed, so she must be fairly pale skinned, actually.

Yes, most girls of Northeast Asian(Chinese, Japanese, and Korean) extraction are no darker than your average Caucasian, at least where I live. In fact, some have almost paper-white skin. Like I said, I'm not sure how anybody could confuse a Chinese girl with an Indian girl, though sometimes white people seem a bit blind. ;)

Yes, I realize I'm completly off-topic. I apologize. I'll try to stop now. :)

[Pegasus]

Nah, everyone turns red when they get embarrassed. Actually, there's a thread about whether or not Cho is Asian.
Harry noticed Cho because she was so pretty. The quidditch part merely made him cross her path--she is in another house and another year, after all. Think about how cruel Ron and Harry were about the girl with the off-center nose in GoF. That's just the way teenage boys are. Harry really knew nothing about Cho and had almost nothing in common with her--that's why they were doomed to begin with, and had nothing to talk about but Cedric.

[jordmundt6]

Actually pegasus, wasn't that mostly Ron gabbling about Eloise Midgeion? Answer--No, he probably wouldn't have noticed Cho if she hadn't been pretty.

[Pegasus]

Yes, it was mostly Ron. It's been a while since I actually read it. But really, Harry wasn't much better. They were both complete prats at that dance. They were fifteen, after all.

[NamelessOne]

Nah, everyone turns red when they get embarrassed. Actually, there's a thread about whether or not Cho is Asian.

Not true. Some black people turn purple. Since her name is Cho Chang, though, she almost has to be Korean or Chinese, and therefore she's probably light-skinned.

Now, could you explain to me why you don't think that a short girl with long, shiny black hair named Cho Chang is Asian? Also, could you explain why the illustrator would draw her as an Asian girl in the American version of the books and why the casting call would specifically ask for an "Oriental" girl to play her role if she wasn't Asian?

Harry noticed Cho because she was so pretty. The quidditch part merely made him cross her path--she is in another house and another year, after all. Think about how cruel Ron and Harry were about the girl with the off-center nose in GoF. That's just the way teenage boys are. Harry really knew nothing about Cho and had almost nothing in common with her--that's why they were doomed to begin with, and had nothing to talk about but Cedric.

This is beginning to frustrate me. What exactly is your definition of "notice"? I don't think we can debate/argue over this point without coming to a consensus.

Here are the definitions given in my dictionary:
1) to become aware of or pay attention to; take notice of; observe; note
2) to mention or refer to; point out
3) to acknowledge acquaintance with
4) to give notice to; serve with a notice

Under the first three definitions, Ron actually did notice Eloise Midgeon. :)

[Pegasus]

Now, could you explain to me why you don't think that a short girl with long, shiny black hair named Cho Chang is Asian? Also, could you explain why the illustrator would draw her as an Asian girl in the American version of the books and why the casting call would specifically ask for an "Oriental" girl to play her role if she wasn't Asian?
If that's addressed to me, I never questioned Cho's ethnicity. It seems obvious to me, as I explained in the Cho/Asian thread. I was just pointing out that that debate already has its own thread.
As far as noticing Cho, Harry is actually pretty tied up in his own world. He only notices people he comes in direct contact with. I actually think that's pretty normal; my school was huge, and I didn't know anyone outside of my classes/social circle. I didn't even know the names of many people in my classes. Why should I? Because Cho is in Ravenclaw and a year older, he probably wouldn't have noticed her without quidditch, just like he didn't notice Luna until he sat with her on the train. He was taken with her because she was pretty; he wasn't taken with Luna. And there's nothing intellectual about it, or he would have fallen for Hermione. (No, I'm not a shipper by any measure; I'm simply making a point.)

[DrummerboyDT]

If that's addressed to me, I never questioned Cho's ethnicity. It seems obvious to me, as I explained in the Cho/Asian thread. I was just pointing out that that debate already has its own thread.
As far as noticing Cho, Harry is actually pretty tied up in his own world. He only notices people he comes in direct contact with. I actually think that's pretty normal; my school was huge, and I didn't know anyone outside of my classes/social circle. I didn't even know the names of many people in my classes. Why should I? Because Cho is in Ravenclaw and a year older, he probably wouldn't have noticed her without quidditch, just like he didn't notice Luna until he sat with her on the train. He was taken with her because she was pretty; he wasn't taken with Luna. And there's nothing intellectual about it, or he would have fallen for Hermione. (No, I'm not a shipper by any measure; I'm simply making a point.)

I agree, but I also think that Cho Chang sounds very friendly towards everybody. She seems very polite and I think she is a good listener. I think looks were what Harry thought about first though.

[SnorkackCatcher]

I agree, but I also think that Cho Chang sounds very friendly towards everybody. She seems very polite and I think she is a good listener. I think looks were what Harry thought about first though.
Yes, she does seem basically nice and friendly, at least in GoF and the brief glimpses in PoA. She gets a bit confused and emotional in OotP, but then that's a fairly natural reaction to having your boyfriend murdered by an evil wizard and then starting to fall for the boy who was with him at the time it happened. :)

Cho appears to be generally regarded as one of the school "lookers". Harry in GoF found it hard to ask her out as she was pretty, and popular, and always surrounded by friends. She certainly seems to get a lot of boys chatting her up - Harry, Cedric, Roger Davies, Michael Corner ...

Ron obviously noticed her looks (well, he would, wouldn't he?) - at the end of OotP he tells Harry "she's very good-looking and all that, but you want someone a bit more cheerful". I think that's actually a pretty perceptive summary of their relationship and why it doesn't really work for either of them.

[Furienna]

Oh, I'm just glad this little crush is over. It so annoyed me, since I didn't think they were a good match.

[star x struck]

Yea, i'm kinda glad too.. i never really liked Cho anyways. i dunno.. it was just something about her.. O.o

[Pegasus]

Well, I'm a minority her. These little romances are inevitable, and they are interesting, but there's so much more to the books than teen hormones.
Ron obviously noticed her looks (well, he would, wouldn't he?) - at the end of OotP he tells Harry "she's very good-looking and all that, but you want someone a bit more cheerful". I think that's actually a pretty perceptive summary of their relationship and why it doesn't really work for either of them.
Looks like we all agree:).

[Polychrome]

Well, here's something for all you other disgruntled girls who are angry at Cho. In the CoS game for PC, you get to beat her up while she's on her broomstick during the quidditch matches! LOL (Though, she has brown hair in the game.)

In the CoS game for PC, during Quidditch matches, Harry follows the snitch automatically. You're actually more worried about not getting knocked out by the other seeker than catching the darn thing. So it's like a fighting game on brooms.

Here's hoping PoA gives us the same treat. I wanna beat her up some more. :) RAR! TAKE THAT!

[NamelessOne]

If that's addressed to me, I never questioned Cho's ethnicity. It seems obvious to me, as I explained in the Cho/Asian thread. I was just pointing out that that debate already has its own thread.

I'm sorry. :( I mistook you.

For the record, though, I never debated whether or not she was Asian in my previous posts, only what type of Asian she was.

As far as noticing Cho, Harry is actually pretty tied up in his own world. He only notices people he comes in direct contact with. I actually think that's pretty normal; my school was huge, and I didn't know anyone outside of my classes/social circle. I didn't even know the names of many people in my classes. Why should I? Because Cho is in Ravenclaw and a year older, he probably wouldn't have noticed her without quidditch, just like he didn't notice Luna until he sat with her on the train. He was taken with her because she was pretty; he wasn't taken with Luna. And there's nothing intellectual about it, or he would have fallen for Hermione. (No, I'm not a shipper by any measure; I'm simply making a point.)

Ah, so we agree that Harry would have noticed her? :)

Actually, I said that Harry wouldn't be attracted to Cho in my first post here. I never suggested that he would be. However, in my mind, noticing someone is quite a different animal, and I was becoming increasingly irritated at those who suggested that he wouldn't even do that much. (And I did ask if I was simply mistaking their use of that word.) In my mind, it'd be pretty stupid and arrogant of him not to, considering that she was reputed to be an excellent Seeker.

Yes, I know I'm splitting hairs, but I suppose I've been feeling a bit argumentative lately. :)

[Discordia]

Well usually the first think a person notices is what somone looks like which is what he noticed about Cho. The fact that she was pretty and a good flier combined made Harry fall for her in the first place. Harry does seem to admire a girl who's a "good seat on a broom" if you know what I mean. Anyways, I don't think he'd have noticed her. To say that he'd have still dated her if she were covered in warts is kind of seeting your expectations a bit high:shrug: . Besides when Fleur got to Hogwarts, she considered to be gorgeious but he didn't spend his time gaping over her like Ron.

[Chrysalis]

Hmmm...no. He didn't notice Hermione or many of the other girls. What I'm saying is that of course looks are not everything, but as soon as Harry got to know Cho better found that she was acting like a human hosepipe he was put off. So, it was a pretty superficial crush.

[p0is0n]

Like most teenagers, Harry was attracted to her because of her good looks and probably didn't give a hoot about her personality and what not. That, I think, was his biggest mistake. In book 5, we see a lot of problems with her. She thinks Harry likes Hermione more than her, she won't stop talking about Cedric, she acts like she wants Harry to be more affectionate (she sees Roger making out with that blonde girl). All this on the first date. So, although it definately would've payed to find out more about her, he was probably just attracted to her for her looks.

[dobbypotter]

I think Harry first liked Cho because of her looks (because he first saw her playing quidditch, and he wouldnt have known her personality.) But after he met her, he liked her even more, Because of her personality, and also because of the fact she played quidditch so they had alot in common/to talk about.

[CoLime]

Yes, I think Harry would fancy Cho if she wasen't pretty, because Harry is the kind of guy that cares about presonality, aswell as looks. It probably would have taken Harry a little longer to have taken interest in Cho because he would to have, at least, have to have a conversation with her. Also the relationship would had lasted longer because Cedric wouldn't have been in the mix of it all.

[Luna27]

Hmm, I don't think he would have had much of a chance to fancy her if she weren't pretty. She wasn't a Gryffindor and she wasn't even in any of his classes being a year ahead of him. A pretty girl who made his stomach do flips just happened to catch his eye while playing Quidditch. He might have known that she wasn't mean because she didn't seem 'Slytherin-ish', but what did he know of her personality at the beginning? That's all he really knew about her when he decided to ask her to the Yule Ball...so I think if Cho weren't pretty he wouldn't have had a crush on her. That doesn't make him a bad person, but unless you spend a lot of time with someone, the first thing that attracts you to them is their looks.

[Pegasus]

Because of her personality, and also because of the fact she played quidditch so they had alot in common/to talk about.
Actually, they had very little to talk about, other than Cedric; that's why their "relationship" lasted all of five minutes!

[nightingale]

^^ True. He probably wouldn't have liked her if she wasn't pretty. I mean, it's not like he would've gotten a lot of chances to know a Ravenclaw girl who was a year above him. And, I don't think he would've liked her if he'd gotten to know her, which is kind of what happened when he did. Well, I don't know what she was like before Cedric's death, but after it, she was a bit emotionally unstable, which is understandable. It was just a bit of a doomed relationship.

[Picko]

Actually, they had very little to talk about, other than Cedric; that's why their "relationship" lasted all of five minutes!

But I think it was unfortunate that when he did get a chance to know her that she was going through a very tough stage. I have little doubt that in other - less emotional - circumstances their relationship would've lasted a lot longer.

[R3mus Lup!n]

No..Which is why Cho isn't the one for Harry.

[Frankie Inkblot]

I'm not seeing how the fact that Harry may or may not have liked Cho if she weren't pretty is important at all. Would you develop a crush on someone who you found physically repulsive? Probably not.

[Furienna]

You guys, do you know what just hit me? Really, if this was more than a stupid shallow crush, why doesn't Harry think about Cho also when he's outside Hogwarts? It would be so easy for JKR to put in a line saying something like "And Harry also wondered how Cho Chang, a very pretty girl, who was the seeker of the Ravenclaw House Quidditch team, was doing. He just couldn't stop thinking about her. He must have thought about her every day the whole summer. Yes, Harry even thought he must have fallen in love with her." in the beginning of GOF or OOTP. But no, there's no sign that he gives her any thought during the GOF summer until he sees her on the Quidditch world cup or the OOTP summer before he sees her on the Hogwarts express. And he doesn't even think about her during the Christmas holiday of OOTP though they had a kiss just before the holidays started. OK, a lot of things happened, especially the attack on Arthur, but I think he still would have thought more than what he seemed to do about a girl he really was steadily in love with, especially when they had kissed. A very shallow stupid crush if you ask me.