Snape's Protection

[franke]

Okay, I know that there is a site where you can talk about what Dumbledore had Snape do at the end of GoF, but I can't find it. Anyway, I was thinking. Snape is always at Hogwarts. Maybe Dumbledore is protecting Snape too, you know like he is protecting Harry. Maybe Snape was in love with Lily and that is why he turned good (although I doubt it) and now Dumbledore is having to protect him too.

What do you think

But what could Snape have done?

[Michelle]

There is a thread on this called "Snape's mission". This is likely to be closed or merged. Make a search with the keywords "Snape" & "GoF" and you will find it.;)

[Girl]

the link to the tread Snape's mission is http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3191&highlight=snape+mission

Your other questions have been talked about in oter treads. Use the Search to find more.

Anyway I think that snape will go back to Voldermort as a spy for Dumbledore.

[rotsiepots]

This thread, to me at least, seems entirely different to "Snape's Mission", so I'm happy to let it stay open. I do vaguely remember there being a thread on this topic (Snape's protection at Hogwarts), but I can't seem to find it.

So, getting back to franke's original question, do you think that Dumbledore is protecting Snape at Hogwarts? Does he, like Harry, have some Ancient magic protecting him from Voldemort also? Was Snape's disloyalty to Voldemort a reason why he needs protection?

[zent]

I don't think Snape can go to Voldemort as a spy---Voldemort seems to be able to detect treason.

[HbAznKyootie]

Snape is probably protected when he's at Hogwarts, but that doesnt mean that Snape is entirely safe. I mean remember Voldemort said "one, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course" that Death Eater might be Snape, and well Voldemort has always killed everyone he had intend to.

[Moonstone]

Okay, I'll give it a go...

My guess is that one does not get the lovely Death Eater tattoo by simply shaking hands with Voldemort and promising to be an obedient evil lackey. Perhaps there is some sort of binding magical contract-like spell that ties the Death Eaters to Voldemort, in a sense, until death. And even if there weren't, Voldemort clearly does not appreciate treachery on the part of his followers. Snape has violated whatever oaths he swore to Voldemort. It's sheer speculation, but it could be that Dumbledore is protecting Snape magically in some way from the consequences of that act. I think that it's more likely that Snape simply benefits from being in Dumbledore's good graces and in the (relatively) safe haven of Hogwarts.

Certainly, if nothing else, Dumbledore owed Snape a great deal as Snape put his life on the line to spy for Dumbledore. And Dumbledore has repaid that with employment, respect and trust.

[Jessica]

Good theory, Moonstone.

I like the magical contract bit. Kind of like a gang tattoo, the only way out is death.

[franke]

Moonstones theory got me thinking. What if the dark mark on each death eaters arm is some kind of curse scar. Like Harry's but intentional. Perhaps the mark on the death eaters arms are a way for Voldie to track his followers. Before now, I never thought about the significance of those marks. But they must be for more than just summoning his followers. Thing about how great Harry's scar has been. I know they are totally different, but somehow I believe the dark mark is more powerful than JKR has let on.

[Virtuousdream]

hmm, the 'marks' do seem to have the same effect, I mean, they "all felt it burn" when Voldie touched Wormtail's, it does seem similar to Harry's, except only when they are needed do they hurt.

But, if this is the case, does that mean all the death eaters have some of voldemort in them, like the result of Harry's scar has resulted in that happening to him.
Also, I don't know if there's a seperate topic, but what does the name mean exactly?

Death - pretty obvious
Eater - to eat

Death eater - to eat death?! Does this mean that they too are trying to 'eat' death and make themselves immortal, or does it mean they kill to 'eat' death?

[Severely Snapped]

I believe the only reason Snape teaches (a job he obviously dislikes) is because it is a mutually beneficial arrangement between him and Dumbledore. Hogwarts (DD) provides Snape with as much protection as a runaway Death Eater is likely ever to get; Snape provides (or provided) DD with his loyalty, his skills as a spy, and his admittedly unique perspective as a DE gone good.

As to the vaguaries, mysteries and possibilities pertaining to the Dark Mark, I have only about a million questions. Alas, that is for another thread...

[Weatherby]

Snape may not be protected. But he could perhaps brew a potion for himself,

[whizbang121]

Snape is the potions master. He did say he could show the students how to put a stopper in death. Does he know a formula for immortality? Anyone have ss/ps handy? In Harry first potions class Snape swept in and made a little speech. Is he telling them what he has already done for Voldemorte? Is it why he needs protection?

[Weatherby]

If he made that for Voldemort he may not need protection. Voldemort wouldn't harm him as long as he had a use for him.
But he would need protecting from any crazy ex convicts. I'm sure Crouch JR isn't the only disgrunteled Voldemort supporter mad at ex DE's.

[Bouncing_Ferret]

I actually doubt that Snape's being protected by anyone but himself. If - though I kind of doubt this is true - he's on a spying mission, then it would be utter stupidity for Dumbledore (or anyone else for that matter) to have put him under a protection spell, because any link that Voldie could spot between Snape and the good guys... well, let's just say that Voldie doesn't seem the sort to give anyone the benefit of doubt...

Anyhow, I think that Snape's smart enough to get himself out quickly if trouble starts - he's not as idiotically noble as some other heroes who shall remain unnamed *cough Harry Potter cough*. :D

[whizbang121]

If Snape developed the immortality potion that has kept V alive all these years, (and he's actually not that old for a wizard being younger than both DD and McGonagal) maybe he's dangerous to V because he may know or be able to invent an antidote. Maybe what DD was asking him to do at the end of GoF was to brew up something dangerous and special for V now that he actually had a body, rather than the obvious assumption that he's been sent off to spy. Whatever DD wanted him to do, it seemed to bother DD much more than it did Snape.

[Prof.Aze]

Hey this got me thinking. What if Snape is protected by the Fidelius Charm.(is the spelling correct?) And his secret-keeper is none other than DD or the other professors at Hogwarts. Does it make sense?

[whizbang121]

But ,confused> we know where he is. I'm beginning to think I don't know what the fidelis charm is. Help?!

[desecre_demorte]

"I mean remember Voldemort said "one, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course" that Death Eater might be Snape, and well Voldemort has always killed everyone he had intend to."

He hasn't always killed *everyone* he intended to kill. Our dear Harry is still alive and kicking...and I don't think Voldemorte intended on leaving him alive throughout the course of the past four books :).

*Desecre Demorte*

[Severely Snapped]

Originally posted by whizbang121
If Snape developed the immortality potion that has kept V alive all these years, (and he's actually not that old for a wizard being younger than both DD and McGonagal) maybe he's dangerous to V because he may know or be able to invent an antidote. Maybe what DD was asking him to do at the end of GoF was to brew up something dangerous and special for V now that he actually had a body, rather than the obvious assumption that he's been sent off to spy. Whatever DD wanted him to do, it seemed to bother DD much more than it did Snape.

That's a very intriguing idea. DD did ask him if he was "prepared," and Snape said yes, which he wouldn't have if he had to go brew some big complex potion, but...maybe he's been prepared for a very long time. The inner circle did seem to jump into "Plan B" mode rather quickly, didn't they? Like they were all just waiting and watching for the last 14 years for Voldemort to return.

Originally posted by desecre_demorte (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=331748#post331748))
"I mean remember Voldemort said "one, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course" that Death Eater might be Snape, and well Voldemort has always killed everyone he had intend to."

He hasn't always killed *everyone* he intended to kill. Our dear Harry is still alive and kicking...and I don't think Voldemorte intended on leaving him alive throughout the course of the past four books :).

*Desecre Demorte*


True...but we haven't seen Snape's Mum hanging around his dungeon lately, waiting to jump between her "baby" and certain death. ;)

[whizbang121]

Maybe Snape was mixing potions for V under the imperious curse. It would explain why DD is willing to trust him now he's left the death eaters. Somewhere in the books, isn't there mention that many of the death eaters who deserted claimed that they had been under the imperious curse, but few actually were. Maybe Snape was one who was.

And speaking of Snape's mum, where did he come from? I know ... diff thread.

[dorcasderr]

I think the suggestion that Snape has gone off to do something important that has to do with his specialty, Potions, is right on the mark. It would disturb Dumbledore more than Snape because, if not in preparing whatever the potion might be, then in the administering it....somehow...to Voldemort, Snape will be putting himself in grave danger. I think Dumbledore knows that Snape will insist on doing that himself and I think Snape is resolute about it...his mind is made up and he has thought out all the possible consequences.

[Bouncing_Ferret]

Originally posted by Severely Snapped (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=332635#post332635))
True...but we haven't seen Snape's Mum hanging around his dungeon lately, waiting to jump between her "baby" and certain death. ;)


:rotfl:

I think the theory that Snape's bollocksed off to do something with potions is a good one.

I also remember reading that the Fidelius charm only works when somebody's trying to discover the secret that's hidden - so if Snape was protected by it, then really, the only people who wouldn't be able to find him would be the ones who wanted to find him - people who didn't want to discover his secret could still find him... But would the people who wanted to find him have to want to hurt him or not?

Okay. I think I just tied my brain in one big knot. Ouchy. :(

[Barbara Kennedy]

Actually there is a thread around here somewhere all about
Snape and His Parents (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8146)

[Disarming Charm]

[quote]Originally posted by Severely Snapped (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=332635#post332635))
That's a very intriguing idea. DD did ask him if he was "prepared," and Snape said yes, which he wouldn't have if he had to go brew some big complex potion, but...maybe he's been prepared for a very long time. The inner circle did seem to jump into "Plan B" mode rather quickly, didn't they? Like they were all just waiting and watching for the last 14 years for Voldemort to return.

I think Snape was prepared and ready and the Inner Circle was also ready due to the dark mark on Snape's arm. He said he was able to feel it all year and that it was getting stronger over the year. I figure as soon as he noticed it he alerted DD and they began to plan their attack. They knew something would happen but didn't know when and when it did everyone was prepared.

[Siriusthx1138]

I believe it was a little of both. I think Snape was needed because he's a former Death Eater, he's good with potions, and he can spy. I'm sure DD is going to tell Snape to try and find out what is goung on.

Perhaps Voldemort betrayed Snape. I'm not sure how close they were? Snape could have been Voldemort's right hand man. Maybe this was part of James and them playing that joke on them? Snape and Voldemort could have been friends before Voldemort declared himself a Dark Lord. Snape's Dark Mark could have been one of the first. It is a lot like the Slytherin symbol! This could have been some sort of trick by Voldemort to bind Snape to him forever. Perhaps this angered Snape and he tried to turn his back on Volde, then Volde put him under the imperious curse and made him do his biddings. Maybe Snape didn't even want to be a Death Eater? This could explain why he is so willing to do what DD thinks is so dangerous, for revenge and payback.

There are so many unanswered questions with Snape. It looks like a lot of them are going to come to light in Book 5. I am only certain of one thing I do not think that Snape is bad at all. He's helped Harry a few times and he loves to hate Harry, so if he would help him then he has to be good.

[Disarming Charm]

quote:
Originally posted by Siriusthx1138 (original post)
This could have been some sort of trick by Voldemort to bind Snape to him forever.

Ohhh intriguing Voldy tricked Snape, I like that theory. I too think that Snape is not bad and I like the revenge idea.

Thanks for giving me something to think about Siriusthx1138!

[MarkRip]

Hi everyone...

This is my first post here.

Someone said the thing about: "one, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course". Are you all sure that's about Snape and not about Karkaroff? Because Voldemort also said something like "One to be too cowardly to turn up, he will be punished". Karkaroff fled, Snape stayed put. Karkaroff betrayed too many of his fellow Death Eaters, perhaps that's the reason Voldie thinks he left him forever...

[Disarming Charm]

I do think that the one that would have left him forever would be Snape. The only thing that casts some doubt in my mind is that Voldy would probably know that Snape could not apperate/disapperate to him from Hogwarts so he might think that was the reason he was not there.

I don't think Voldy meant Snape with the coward comment only because he did not flee like Karkaroff did and Snape seems far from a coward to me.

Actually that gets me back to the subject. That could be one of the ways Snape is protected if Voldy knows what can or cannot be done on the Hogwarts grounds.

[miri]

He attended Hogwarts so very likely he does!

Voldemort, from when he was face-on-the-back-of-Quirrell's-head, probably knows that Snape isn't really loyal. Unless he made it sound like, by seaching for immortality himself (as in FOR himself), Quirrell was betraying Voldemort...

Then, the one who's left forever could be someone quite different :)

[Jessica]

Originally posted by MarkRip (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=344402#post344402))
Hi everyone...

This is my first post here.

Someone said the thing about: "one, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course". Are you all sure that's about Snape and not about Karkaroff? Because Voldemort also said something like "One to be too cowardly to turn up, he will be punished". Karkaroff fled, Snape stayed put. Karkaroff betrayed too many of his fellow Death Eaters, perhaps that's the reason Voldie thinks he left him forever...



Yeah I thought the same thing. I actually started a thread about it here:http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9278

But most people don't agree with us so if you have any more evidence please add it.

P.S. They'll all be sorry on June 21, when we're right.
P.P.S. SO totally just kidding there, nobody take offence! :)

[Siriusthx1138]

I think that Karkaroff is the one who is the coward. Also, wasn't Ludo Bagman a DE? If so then he could be one who has left forever and will die.

I think Snape could play off being late to show up, he could play both sides. He was asked to do something for DD (probably spy on Volde) when he does show up with Volde then he could just tell him he didn't want to tip off DD. Volde would understand, even though he's way overconfident he has to know that he could not take on DD yet. If Volde trusts Snape then it would be very easy to walk him into a trap by feeding him info that DD wants him to know.

I always get the impression that DD looks at things like they are going to be very difficult, and in the end they usually are, but he always seems to have something up his sleeve. He has had 14 years to prepare for Volde's return. I think everyone in the wizarding world expected his return someday, this is why they call him you-know-who. I think DD knew it. I think he knows he's coming for Harry as well. I have a gut feeing that Snape will take on Volde in book 5 and we will see that maybe Snape should be the DADA teacher! Just my opinion though.

[Mary Jane]

I think in the first book Hagrid said (about Gringotts) there was no better place to keep something safe except Hogwarts. Perhaps Snape has stayed at Hogwarts because he is safe there.

[sarcasticx514]

Yeah, Snape is probably getting protection in Hogwarts from D.E.'s, I never thought it probably would need it until I read this thread.

[whizbang121]

Yeah, but Lucius makes himself very free in Hogwarts. He was a member of the governing board and all.

[sarcasticx514]

I don't think they would have tried to stop Lucious from coming in any how, but is there ever a time when Snape and Lucious do talk to each other?

[Barbara Kennedy]

I don't think we've seen an encounter between them yet.
Did anyone else notice that none of the Hogwarts teachers went to the World Cup game [that we know of]?
Does Snape ever show up anywhere outside Hogwarts?

[sarcasticx514]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=349603#post349603))
I don't think we've seen an encounter between them yet.
Did anyone else notice that none of the Hogwarts teachers went to the World Cup game [that we know of]?
Does Snape ever show up anywhere outside Hogwarts?

:shrug: Nope, they never mention showing up anywhere being outside of Hogwarts, Barbara. Nor about the teachers in the world cup. . .

[The Black Adder]

I don't think we've seen an encounter between them yet.
Did anyone else notice that none of the Hogwarts teachers went to the World Cup game [that we know of]?
Does Snape ever show up anywhere outside Hogwarts?

Snape and Lucius were sitting together in the bleachers during the Quidditch game in the 2nd movie.

And of course Snape is protected at Hogwarts. Hogwarts is protected by many ancient and powerful spells. Of course, that isn't to say that it can't be infiltrated as when Barty Crouch Jr. posed as Mad Eye Moody.

[phowell13]

Also remember in the fifth book Sirius asks Snape in the kitchen of Grimauld Place So how does Lucius like having his lapdog back. Makes me think that Snape and Lucius are communicating at least and in all probability meeting. Moreover, since it is assumed Dumbledore would no longer let Lucius in Hogwarts (and remember Dumbledore was still headmaster at Christmas), then it is very likely Snape has been leaving the school grounds at some point. (At least I assume it is implied in the remark).

[phoenixsong]

Hey this got me thinking. What if Snape is protected by the Fidelius Charm.(is the spelling correct?) And his secret-keeper is none other than DD or the other professors at Hogwarts. Does it make sense?Wow, I thought I came up with this theory, over in the Snape thread a coupla months back! Then, thanks to the efforts of Barbara Kennedy, I find that Prof. Aze already posted it here.

In my version, Dumbledore isn't keeping the secret of Snape's whereabouts, but the secret that Snape has switched sides, making it impossible for any of the DEs or Voldemort himself, to really know that Snape is spying for DD. They can suspect, but they can't know unless Dumbledore himself tells them. Then, besides this Fidelius Charm, there is also Snape's excellent occlumency abilities, which allow him to fool Voldemort that Snape is spying for him, rather than for DD.

[Vigilance]

Well, but is this how Fidelious works? I thuoght it had to be about a place...tell me more.

I think Snape has worked it out with Thingy, and is actively reporting to him and DD (double agent-like). I don't think he needs DDs protection from the DEs, though he might have initially come to Hogwarts to be protected from the bad name he developed as a DE himself...

[Jill]

Yes I don't think Snape needs protecting at all and I do believe that it may have been the other way around. That Snape is some kind of protectoret for the DE, Voldemort and now Hogswart as he is always saving people.

[phoenixsong]

Well, but is this how Fidelious works? I thuoght it had to be about a place...tell me more.

I think Snape has worked it out with Thingy, and is actively reporting to him and DD (double agent-like). I don't think he needs DDs protection from the DEs, though he might have initially come to Hogwarts to be protected from the bad name he developed as a DE himself...Well, I do think he is also acting the part of the double-agent, as you suggest. But I see know reason that the Fidelius Charm has to only concern a place. As I understand it, any secret could be hidden inside a person. If this is the case, then Dumbledore could very well be hiding the secret that Snape has turned sides. Only those who were in the pensieve trial would know otherwise (because Dumbledore told them; and because he is Secret Keeper, no one there would be able to pass on the information, just like none of the members of the Order could pass on the whereabouts of HQ: only Dumbledore can do that, hence the need for the handwritten note to Harry).

It's just a theory, but it might explain why the DEs and Voldie can't come to any conclusions about Snape. But it could be that he is a skilled enough Occlumens and an accomplished enough actor to pull it off, without any need for a Fidelius Charm.

[Marcy]

I like the theory that the secret that is hidden is Snapes new loyalty!

[Vigilance]

I like this idea of the Fidelius, hope we hear more about it in book 6.

[[Pretty]_[Unicorn]]

I agree with whoever said that Snape is safe inside Hogwarts but outside of it his life is always threatened for Voldemort only fears Dumbledore. So maybe when in OotP, Harry was told of Snape going on risky missions I first got the intention he was going back to spy on Voldemort but maybe he was just talking to Lucius more, spending more time with him to gain information. Sirius did comment about Snape being Lucius' lapdog so maybe Snape is playing Lucius to gain info. about Voldemort.

[Alastor D]

I seriously doubt that Lucius could be unaware of that Snape changed sides long ago. But 'slippery' as he is, he might pretend to believe Snape. He might even be betraying Voldemort. Who knows?
Anyway, whatever Snape does outside Hogwarts may be risky. "One who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course..."

[Perseus_]

About if Snape was the "One who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course..." has been extensively disscused in other threads. Many people think that Snape is still working as Death Eater, possibily spying for the Order and was in the graveyard in GoF, under one of the mask, and the Old Voldy still think Snivellus is one of the bad guys.

The other possibility is that Voldermort indeed knows the treason of Snape and the Dark Lord was talking about him in the graveyard... but then, the question is how can be Snape doing his mission for the Order. Maybe the Polyjuice Potion? Somekind of magic trick plus the Severus occlumency habilities?

Greetings

[Zachary1993]

That would explain why he was never killed by the deatheaters. They would be too afraid to enter Hogwarts. As long as Snape is at Hogwarts and is with Dumbledore he will be safe. But I think he will end up killed at the end.

[woop]

i just reread poa and gof. i think it's pretty clear that dd is protecting snape. why else would he be at hogwarts? the guy obviously hates the place and all the people in it. there's got to be some reason other than wanting to be a teacher.

[MadMagic]

I don't think he hates everyone and everything about Hogwarts. But I do think that Dumbledore is protecting him somehow. An ex-Death Eater is probably a pretty dangerous title to hold. There are probabyl people on both sides who would want to see him dead, for betraying Voldemort and for following Voldemort. Hogwarts seems the safest place for him to be.

[silver ink pot]

I think Dumbledore is Snape's secret-keeper and protector, and that is why he is always unable to tell Harry why he trusts Snape. I also think Snape has proven his loyalty, probably in more ways than one, by helping to protect Hogwarts. This seems obvious to me.

Sometimes I think that Snape doesn't even have to talk to Malfoy, Sr., to get information. Malfoy, Jr., runs his mouth constantly to Snape and everyone else. All Snape has to do is listen to young Malfoy, and maybe that is why Snape seems amused when Harry says during one Occlumency lesson that "his job" is to report on what the DE's are saying. Maybe he realizes that Harry has the wrong idea about how he gets his information.

[Tiberius]

I don't think Snape can go to Voldemort as a spy---Voldemort seems to be able to detect treason.

What about Snape's occlumency skills? If he knows how to shield his thoughts from any mindreading that Voldy does, maybe he can project false thoughts that will make voldy think that Snape is back on his side.

[Marcy]

Is it possible that Snape is protected by Voldemort's immortality? Jo has said to think of all the things that V. did to become immortal, so is it possible that Snape made V a potion that links the two together, and neither can truly die unless both do? Snape's appearance does seem distinctly to match that of an "undead" person, perhaps the potion that "puts a stoopper in death" makes it to where you aren't truly alive either. Dumbledore's comment of "are you prepared" may have really been asking "are you prepared to die" If Snape came to DD and gave him this information about what must be done in order for Vold. to be killed, then it is no wonder DD trusts Snape implicitly. Snape may, in the end, have to give up his own life to attone for past wrongs.

[Tiberius]

But if Snape knows the secrets of Voldy's immortality, and Snape told this to DD, why doesn't the good headmaster get the Order and attack Voldy? Granted, it will be tough getting past the DEs, but still, armed with the knowledge of V's long life, surely they can do some damage. At least make him mortal again. And I don't doubt for a moment that DD would sacrifice himself to get rid of V.

[Marcy]

Because if the only way to kill Voldemort is to have him and Snape die simultaneously (Harry kill Voldemort, Snape "sacrifice" himself, perhaps?) then it will need to be carefully orchestrated. This theory would also explain why DD seemed so sure all along that V would return. Also, knowing that the prophecy says that only Harry will be able to kill V, it is likely that DD wants Harry to be older and more learned when they make this attempt!
'

[Tiberius]

Good idea, marcy. If it's true, we'll see DD guiding Harry a lot in the rest of the books, right up to the final battle at the end. So I think the end of DD avoiding Harry because of the connection between H and V.