Chamber of Secrets

Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/index.php)
-   Legilimency Studies (http://www.cosforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163)
-   -   Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=107881)

hermy_weasley2 July 13th, 2007 12:17 am

Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Peter Pettigrew. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis

While he didn't have too large a role in Deathly Hallows we finally know the fate of Peter Pettigrew
  • Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
  • What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
  • Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
  • Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

padfootandme July 24th, 2007 4:44 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
1. Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
Well, it seems like Peter was not going to stop until Harry actually mentioned it, but I think that if Harry was really close to dying, Peter would have realized it and let up.

2. What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Definately fear, no doubt in my mind.

3. Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
Wormtail probably didn't think anything of it at the time, but the hand, a magic hand, is what ended up killing him. If he didn't have that magic hand, he might not have killed himself, but just refrained from killing Harry.

4. Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
He was probably still living with the fear that Voldemort was out there, and he wanted to keep up a disguise. If he betrayed Ron and constantly ran away, finding home with other people, especially Slytherins, he might not have been the first one to return to Voldemort.

HMN July 26th, 2007 2:02 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I have to say how wrong I was about Peter's role in DH. I was certain he was the one who loved Lily, that he finally gave up the secret in exchange for Lily's life, that he actually had the remorse that Snape claimed to have. That he might even show his Gryffindor bravery and stand up and kill Nagini. Boy how wrong I was! This is probably the last time I will post on this despicable character. I am done with him.

1. Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him? I don't think he wanted to remember - he has shown that he cares more about himself than others in the past - and I think he was displaying that behavior again.

2. What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear? Fear. As Dumbledore says, perhaps they sort too early. I think Snape took Peter's place in Slytherin and Peter took Snape's place in Gryffindor.

3. Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him? I hate to give Voldemort any kind of credit - but the forsight to place that magic in the hand is quite good. That if the hand betrays Voldemort, the hand would betray its owner.

4. Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
Peter did not develop through the series. He made poor decisions about the kind of life he wanted - he was too interested in following and never once did we see him work on who he was or who he wanted to be as a person. Over time he lost all respect for himself and ceased to grow or develop. He wanted something he didn't need or deserve (power) and essentially sold his soul in exchange for it.

Beatlesrule July 27th, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
[*]Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

It really doesn't seem so because he gives no indication that he's going to stop choking Harry until he mentions it. Also, the book says that Peter seemed as "shocked" as Harry did that his grip slackened on Harry's throat.
[*]What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

I think it was definitely fear and also a bit of greed thrown in (thinking he'd be rewarded if he showed his loyalty.)
[*]Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

Yes, as HMN said it seems very insightful of LV to give Wormtail that magical hand. I guess he figured that if Wormy would betray his best friends he would eventually betray LV too.
[*]Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

No, I don't think Peter developed at all during the series. He remains a pathetic figure throughout the series in my eyes. He never seemed to show any true remorse for his actions.

Hes July 27th, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

No obviously from how he behaved it doesn't seem that he was willing to remember that Harry saved his life. I was quite surprised that he didn't think of it himself, always thought that he would feel remorse.


What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

Maybe fear played a part in the beginning, but I also think that his loyalty had grown. The situation in which the Magical world was, it seems that Peter had little to fear from people that wanted to have him punished. As a member of the inner circle he was protected by Voldemort's power. But I think he must truly have believed in Voldemort to stay with him too.


Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

It seems that Voldemort never completely trusted Wormtail, that's why Voldemort manipulated the hand into killing him when it detected some guilt and remorse. It's obvious that Wormtail didn't know that, he thought it a reward. I think he must have felt devastated that Voldemort didn't trust him after all.

Aeris_Cymru July 27th, 2007 4:27 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
[*]Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
I very much doubt it. Peter was out for himself. By trying to kill Harry he wanted to show LV that he deserved to be his "sidkick" (for want of a better phrase)

[*]What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Fear, but i think not so much of LV but of Lupin and Sirius, not to mention Harrys, reactions to him. I'm pretty sure that both L and S would have loved to extinquish his life as he had done to Lily and James

[*]Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
I think he felt he was being rewarded. However, it was a bit of a "back-handed" reward after all. I think LV knew that Wormtail couldn't be trusted.

[*]Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

I don't think he really did develop. He was still the same person, with the same "turncoat" values. His decision to bite Goyle...well i think that was because he was in character as Scabbers, and thats what Ron (as a Gryffindor) would want.

Criccos July 27th, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

No, I didn't get that impression while reading the book. I was a bit disappointed with it because I had loved to see just a little bit of remorse and courage from Peter.

What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

Fear, no talk about it. I think it's absolutely clear that the only person he cared about was himself, and staying by Voldemort's side was his only chance to survive the war.

Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

I have to agree with HMN here, it was very, very clever done by Voldemort to give Peter that hand. While Peter thought it was a gesture of gratitude from Voldemort it was just a way to make sure that Peter would stay loyal to him.

Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

No, I wouldn't say he did. He was the same coward through all the books. I can't understand how the sorting hat could place him into Gryffindor since he's not brave nor loyal. I don't know why he bite Goyle, probably he just wanted to do Ron a favour.

xyrax July 29th, 2007 5:58 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
One thing that kind of bugs me is that Peter didn't really show his Gryffindor side at all. I mean, his bravest time was when he was working for the Order, but his becoming a DE and betraying them kind of cancels that out. Before that time he was relatively ungifted and scampered along in the wake of the other Marauders. Afterwards, he hid from the DEs, then rejoined them. And his death wasn't even brave. His hand killed him... a part of him that wasn't even his. I mean, come on! Before I was saying, "Okay, well we haven't seen a brave side of Peter, which means that side of him will be shown in DH." But that time never came. Do you think they sorted him too early? What do you guys think?

popzop July 29th, 2007 6:59 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I got the impression that Peter would have killed Harry, regardless of what he said, even being reminded of his life debt. The "decision" is described as being completely involuntary, more like a twitch. would he really have decided not to kill Harry if he had retained control of his hand? I'm not so sure, but my overall impression was no. He was a coward, showed absolutely no bravery at any point in the books, and feared Voldemort far to much to ever betray him.

Hes July 29th, 2007 8:29 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xyrax (Post 4670308)
One thing that kind of bugs me is that Peter didn't really show his Gryffindor side at all. I mean, his bravest time was when he was working for the Order, but his becoming a DE and betraying them kind of cancels that out. Before that time he was relatively ungifted and scampered along in the wake of the other Marauders. Afterwards, he hid from the DEs, then rejoined them. And his death wasn't even brave. His hand killed him... a part of him that wasn't even his. I mean, come on! Before I was saying, "Okay, well we haven't seen a brave side of Peter, which means that side of him will be shown in DH." But that time never came. Do you think they sorted him too early? What do you guys think?

Well you could say that he was very brave to betray his friends, in a negative way, this took a lot of courage. He had to leave the safe environment of his friends to go to the enemy. But that kind of brave behavior is blotted out by his lack of loyalty.

I agree that his death was far from brave. I think the might have begged for being sorted into Gryffindor (a bit like Harry did when he didn't want to be in Slytherin) and the Sorting Hat gave in. Pettigrew must have been a tough case for the Hat, Ravenclaw definitely not, but the other three houses could have suited him all.

wickedwickedboy July 30th, 2007 5:11 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I always wondered about the Marauder's trust for Peter. I understand they thought him stupid, but that is just the type of weak character that all villans go after. According to Sirius and later Peter's kind of admission in the shreiking shack, he was with Voldy for a year before selling out the Potters. Whatever made him go? I think Voldy sought out a weak link in the resistence. I think James, Sirius and Remus should have thought of that. But I suppose they figured he was loyal if nothing else...he had always stood by and looked up to them before.

Weird character.

Hes July 30th, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4672597)
I always wondered about the Marauder's trust for Peter. I understand they thought him stupid, but that is just the type of weak character that all villans go after. According to Sirius and later Peter's kind of admission in the shreiking shack, he was with Voldy for a year before selling out the Potters. Whatever made him go? I think Voldy sought out a weak link in the resistence. I think James, Sirius and Remus should have thought of that. But I suppose they figured he was loyal if nothing else...he had always stood by and looked up to them before.

Weird character.

Maybe they underestimated Pettigrew completely. Like you said the other marauders thought him weak and not brave enough to do anything on his own. They never really thought he would have to courage to walk over to the other side.

As for why he switched sides? We know very little about his background, who his family was, they might have been arrogant pure bloods. What did he do after graduation, he must have had a job next to his Order of the Phoenix work. So maybe one day he was cornered by Death Eaters, who knew he was a weak person. They showed him appreciation, treated him like an equal, introduced him to Voldemort. Pettigrew was always described as someone who was drawn to more powerful persona and easily influenced. So if he was treated well, had the feeling that he was valued, he might have been easily persuaded that he should betray the Potters, I am sure with a little bit of pressure combined with a fear for Voldemort Pettigrew was willing to do that.

Beatifically August 8th, 2007 7:41 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
He stayed with Voldemort mostly out of fear. Peter - as Sirius mentioned in PoA - likes to be in the company of the "big guys" so they can take care of him. Peter is mostly out for himself. He goes to wherever he feels he is safe.

How in the world did Peter get into Gryffindor?

padfootrules August 8th, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beatifically (Post 4703601)
What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
He stayed with Voldemort mostly out of fear. Peter - as Sirius mentioned in PoA - likes to be in the company of the "big guys" so they can take care of him. Peter is mostly out for himself. He goes to wherever he feels he is safe.

How in the world did Peter get into Gryffindor?

I know! That rat deserves to be no where. Send him back home....

SSJ_Jup81 August 13th, 2007 2:25 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Well, Peter did voluntarily hang around with a Werewolf, so that's an act of bravery. He also became an unregistered animagus, something else that's dangerous, as it's illegal, but, seeing as how he is a bit on the cowardly side, and seems to look out only for himself, he definitely fits the stereotypical trait of a Slytherin. He could also fit into Hufflepuff since he, seemingly, remains loyal to those who can keep him safe.

That aside, I kind of hate the fact that he didn't remember the life debt himself. I hate the fact that Harry had to remind him. It would've been a whole lot more dramatic, if he was choking Harry, and while doing so, had second thoughts, or said something to show that he was having second thoughts, and then end up choking himself to death.

Emperor_Gestahl August 13th, 2007 8:41 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HesHPfan (Post 4673274)
Maybe they underestimated Pettigrew completely. Like you said the other marauders thought him weak and not brave enough to do anything on his own. They never really thought he would have to courage to walk over to the other side.

As for why he switched sides? We know very little about his background, who his family was, they might have been arrogant pure bloods. What did he do after graduation, he must have had a job next to his Order of the Phoenix work. So maybe one day he was cornered by Death Eaters, who knew he was a weak person. They showed him appreciation, treated him like an equal, introduced him to Voldemort. Pettigrew was always described as someone who was drawn to more powerful persona and easily influenced. So if he was treated well, had the feeling that he was valued, he might have been easily persuaded that he should betray the Potters, I am sure with a little bit of pressure combined with a fear for Voldemort Pettigrew was willing to do that.

That makes sense, Voldemort does the same with goblins, gaint and werewolves promising them the rights they never had under the Ministiry's.

wickedwickedboy August 16th, 2007 10:03 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

I think Peter was pretty much just trying to save his own life after the Potters death. However, I think he retained some love in his heart for his friends - and was reminded of this once he came into contact with Harry again. When he saw his remaining friends in the S. Shack, I think he felt it again. But it was too late. I think in the end, his hand started choking him because he had decided in his heart to not harm Harry and make good on his life debt. I think he was making that he was also thinking about his friends and his betrayal and all it cost them. He didn't want to die, but the evil hand had no mercy - it was controled by his soul.

blhendless August 16th, 2007 10:07 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by padfootrules (Post 4703655)
I know! That rat deserves to be no where. Send him back home....

Don't insult rats by comparing them to Peter! That's just evil!

flimseycauldron August 17th, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ_Jup81 (Post 4717456)
Well, Peter did voluntarily hang around with a Werewolf, so that's an act of bravery. He also became an unregistered animagus, something else that's dangerous, as it's illegal, but, seeing as how he is a bit on the cowardly side, and seems to look out only for himself, he definitely fits the stereotypical trait of a Slytherin. He could also fit into Hufflepuff since he, seemingly, remains loyal to those who can keep him safe.

Perhaps this was one of the times that Dumbledore felt the hat sorted too soon. Either that or the hat was swayed by Peter wanting to be in Gryffindor (I wonder when exactly he met the other Marauders) even though all of his characteristics were Slytherin.


Quote:

Originally Posted by padfootrules (Post 4703655)
I know! That rat deserves to be no where. Send him back home....

Quote:

Originally Posted by blhendless (Post 4728193)
Don't insult rats by comparing them to Peter! That's just evil!

Well, rats did carry the bubonic plague....

lushesx3 August 19th, 2007 2:23 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron (Post 4728530)
Perhaps this was one of the times that Dumbledore felt the hat sorted too soon. Either that or the hat was swayed by Peter wanting to be in Gryffindor (I wonder when exactly he met the other Marauders) even though all of his characteristics were Slytherin.




Well, rats did carry the bubonic plague....

Pettigrew definately did fit all the negative characteristics of a slytherin to a T, he probably did ask to be in Gryffindor. Maybe the rest of his family had been in Gryffindor and would've disowned him if he ended up in Slytherin? he certainly seems the type to beg the hat.

SquiggyDralion August 20th, 2007 8:26 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
He probably acted brave enough when he was with the other Marauders. It was only when they entered the greater world that he realized just how vulnerable he was . Remember, his own life was threatened by Voldemort. My guess is that, like Draco, only after he joined the Death Eaters did he realize that being a Death Eater is almost as dangerous as not being one.

RemusLupinFan August 29th, 2007 11:29 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
It doesn't seem like he would have, considering how he behaved towards Harry. Before reading DH I had always thought Peter would fulfill his life debt in a way in which he wouldn't realize what he was doing and would therefore die inadvertantly protecting Harry. The situation was similar in that he didn't mean to (or want to) strangle himself, but it just happened (likely due to a curse put on his silver hand).

What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
I'm going to say fear, since I think Peter's loyalties changed to go along with whomever was in power. Even Voldemort says that Peter returned and stayed not out of loyalty but out of fear.

Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
He likely felt special to have been given such a fine gift, but obviously in hindsight we see that it backfired on him in a fatal way. I like the theory posed that Voldemort cursed the hand to kill Wormtail if his loyalty from Voldemort should waver, considering that he was obeying Voldemort out of fear.

Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
Lol, perhaps he thought Goyle would threaten him as well? And perhaps in some twisted way he felt a bit of loyalty to Ron for taking him in and looking after him, even though he was technically not on Ron's side. Or maybe he didn't much like Goyle Sr. and thought to take it out on his son.

Emperor_Gestahl August 30th, 2007 6:07 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

Goyle touched his food, it's as simple as that.

lil_snuffles August 30th, 2007 5:39 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
No because by trying to kill Harry, it shows that he is truely on the Dark Lords side and always will be.

What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Fear because he didn't want Voldemort to kill him so he dedcided to stay on Voldemort's side.

Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
I think that with Voldemort giving Wormtail made him feel more important. Plus, Voldemort wanted to make sure Wormtail wouldn't flee the Dark Side.

Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
No. He was always a coward and stayed one until his death. No I have no clue why he bit Goyle. That will remain a mystery.

zunni September 3rd, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Can anyone tell me why Wormtail was sorted into Gryffindor?
Did he ever show any signs of bravery/chivalry?

I think the first questions you posted here have been well-answered - but why did he bite Goyle?

Maybe he bit him because Goyle reached for the food (as others have said above).

victoriakrum September 3rd, 2007 8:54 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
I don't think he would have remembered. Well, he might have, I just think that JKR wanted to remind us of the life debt more than Peter.

What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
I'm going to have to go with fear. Peter might have thought/convinced himself that it was actually loyalty, however.

Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
I think this made him feel a lot more powerful and more grateful towards Voldemort. It might have been a main reason he stayed (aside from the fact that he was a terrified traitor).

Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
I think Peter felt loyal to whoever could help him (or hurt him) the most at that time. I definitely think he developed because of the way he repaid Harry's life debt, but he must have had problems thinking about his life because he was always busy doing Voldemort's bidding (plus Voldemort is an accomplished Occlumens).

Whew, that was a bit too rambling, I think :p

wickedwickedboy September 4th, 2007 7:08 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I just read in DH a scene where Harry thinks: DD understood Peter and even in him he saw a little remorse.

I have thought since POA when reading Peter's scenes that he did feel some remorse. It was interesting to note that DD did as well.

silver ink pot September 4th, 2007 9:22 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl (Post 4754024)
Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

Goyle touched his food, it's as simple as that.

I think that's the perfect explanation. And I think it's clear that Peter liked staying with the Weasleys all those years because he always had enough to eat. :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyrax
Before I was saying, "Okay, well we haven't seen a brave side of Peter, which means that side of him will be shown in DH." But that time never came. Do you think they sorted him too early? What do you guys think?

This is the way I look at it: Peter had bravery but it all went into protecting himself. He did what the other Marauders wanted him to, and in return, they made him feel safe. When Voldemort came along, and he thought James and Sirius couldn't protect him from the danger, he flipped to the other side.

He had bravery, but no loyalty. :no:

As Voldemort's servant, he still showed bravery, of a strange kind. He "milked" the giant snake Nagini - took venom from the fangs - and fed the horrible Babymort. Then he cut off his own hand, which most people wouldn't be brave enough (or insane enough) to do.

After reading what Nagini did to Snape, I think Peter obviously had bravery to go near Nagini. Peter also tried to talk Voldemort out of using Harry as the source of blood for his return, which is pretty brave because Voldemort doesn't like to be criticized. To me, that's as close as Peter ever came to fulfilling the life debt, because the twitch of conscience in DH was too little too late.

Ifink2much September 4th, 2007 3:20 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I still fail to understand why Peter was in Gryffindor,he never showed any signs of bravery,I see no reason for his sorting.

Hes September 4th, 2007 3:23 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifink2much (Post 4762196)
I still fail to understand why Peter was in Gryffindor,he never showed any signs of bravery,I see no reason for his sorting.

You have to be brave to stand up against your friends. Pettigrew was brave in that sense, however you can argue this point easily by saying that his bravery was caused by fear instead of eagerness to do good (which is Harry's sort of bravery)

Guilhe September 20th, 2007 10:20 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Did the author ever tell what was Pettigrew's House?

IMissPadfoot September 20th, 2007 10:37 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
# Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
I don't think it was that Peter didn't remember - just that he chose to block it out. Perhaps through shame, or just simply that he was too weak to want to see it through.

# What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Fear.


# Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
I don't think he really developed throughout the story, aside from perhaps becoming more afraid. I have no clue why he bit Goyle on the train. I don't think it was out of any particular loyalty he felt towards Ron for looking after him, or to protect Harry. Maybe he just didn't like Goyle Snr when they were at school - assuming they were at school together. :shrug:

purplehawk September 20th, 2007 11:47 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

No.


What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

Fear.


Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

It made the pain of his amputated hand go away and, for Wormtail, that was paramount.


Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

Biting Goyle was Wormtail's way of ingratiating himself with Harry, I think. As for character development: negative. Wormtail had no character. He was a complete scumbag by the time the story began, having caused the deaths of two of his best friends and framing a third for their murder.

Hes September 20th, 2007 8:30 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Guilhe (Post 4783638)
Did the author ever tell what was Pettigrew's House?

He was in Gryffindor. If he had been in another house it would have been very unlikely that he would have been friends with James, Sirius and Remus and be part of the Marauders.

Wright1771 September 22nd, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Fear pushed him toward Voldemort, at the end of Azkaban....fear of those he betrayed....and fear kept him with Voldemort..he was now with the 'biggest bully in the playground', no one could touch him.

Guilhe October 9th, 2007 3:24 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hes (Post 4784068)
He was in Gryffindor. If he had been in another house it would have been very unlikely that he would have been friends with James, Sirius and Remus and be part of the Marauders.

Thank you. Anyway I don't believe Peter was part of the Marauders for his bravery or intelligence. I think he was a Marauder because sometimes James and Sirius wanted to be boasted by someone other then themselfs and Wormtail did that job perfectly.

That's why I put the possibility of him not being a Gryffindor.

Graduand_Esk October 9th, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hes (Post 4762200)
You have to be brave to stand up against your friends. Pettigrew was brave in that sense, however you can argue this point easily by saying that his bravery was caused by fear instead of eagerness to do good (which is Harry's sort of bravery)

But what Pettigrew had done by then was transfer his 'friendship' to Voldemort and the DEs. When he was a Marauder he never stood up to the others - there was no reason to. They were providing him with 'protection' after all. Once Voldemort - who was the biggest bully of them all, to put it very mildly - showed that he would either kill or protect Pettigrew depending on what choice the latter made, he chose to be one of the DE gang. There's no bravery whatsoever in the betrayal of his old schoolfriends because Pettigrew decided it would be far more dangerous to stand with them. Throughout what we see of his life, he always chooses what he perceives to be the tough guys' side.

I find it very difficult to see why Peter Pettigrew was sorted into Gryffindor. The only thing I can think of is that he chose it personally and the Sorting Hat responded to that. But if anyone could be placed this way, without any thought as to what their needs or qualities are, the whole Sorting process is somewhat diminished for me.

Guilhe October 9th, 2007 4:24 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graduand_Esk (Post 4806232)
I find it very difficult to see why Peter Pettigrew was sorted into Gryffindor. The only thing I can think of is that he chose it personally and the Sorting Hat responded to that. But if anyone could be placed this way, without any thought as to what their needs or qualities are, the whole Sorting process is somewhat diminished for me.

Well, if you think about it, he doesn't seem to fit in any House. Not brave enough for a Gryffidor. Not proud or independent enough for Slytherin. Not intelligent enough for Ravenclaw. Not loyal enough for Hufflepuff.

Graduand_Esk October 9th, 2007 4:44 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Guilhe (Post 4806245)
Well, if you think about it, he doesn't seem to fit in any House. Not brave enough for a Gryffidor. Not proud or independent enough for Slytherin. Not intelligent enough for Ravenclaw. Not loyal enough for Hufflepuff.

This is very true - he doesn't, does he? Maybe they should have had that house that Harry imagined just before his own Sorting; the 'house for people who felt a bit queasy'. Peter would have done all right there! :lol:
Sorry - on a serious note now, maybe given the lack of any of the main valued qualities of the four houses, Pettigrew should have gone to the place which would 'take them all, and teach them just the same' (Helga Hufflepuff's words, according to the Sorting Hat.) The philosophy seems to have become a bit muted by Harry's time, but obviously Hufflepuff originally wanted to move away from being overly selective in who should be taught magic. I like her for that.

I suppose Pettigrew had the potential for bravery in the same way that most people do, but never developed it. His sorting into Gryffindor still bothers me though, since we don't only see a lack of courage from him throughout most of his time in the books, but the exact opposite of courage: cowardice.

IntricateLogic October 9th, 2007 8:46 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

Dumbledore, in one book, I'm not sure which one, said that when one wizard saves another's life, a certain magical contract is created between the two wizard.


And I agree that Pettigrew, I'm sure, had the potential to be brave. I do not see, however, how he ever really showed his courage. He was really just a coward through the books. I don't see how he ended up being friends with the Marauders either. Although, they might have allowed him to stick around because they felt sorry for him. James and Sirius did have a heart--Lupin mentions in, I think HBP, possibly OotP, that he had no friends when he went to Hogwarts, so James and Sirius befriended him.

Chris October 10th, 2007 1:02 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I think Peter had a fair amount of bravery - I just wouldn't classify it as "normal" bravery. He was friends with the marauders for almost 10 years, and while traipsing around at night and becoming an animagus, I'm sure he had to show bravery several times. Not to mention the transformation can go "horribly wrong", if I remember Hermione's words correctly. So it was brave for him to do that. And it was also brave (but not "right") of him to turn on his friends. I'm in no way excusing his behavior; I'm just pointing out that, in a way, it's brave to do what he did. I don't see it as cowardly. I just see it as a very different kind of bravery versus what we think of as "brave" normally.

Chievrefueil October 10th, 2007 1:13 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chparadise (Post 4806776)
I think Peter had a fair amount of bravery - I just wouldn't classify it as "normal" bravery. He was friends with the marauders for almost 10 years, and while traipsing around at night and becoming an animagus, I'm sure he had to show bravery several times. Not to mention the transformation can go "horribly wrong", if I remember Hermione's words correctly. So it was brave for him to do that. And it was also brave (but not "right") of him to turn on his friends. I'm in no way excusing his behavior; I'm just pointing out that, in a way, it's brave to do what he did. I don't see it as cowardly. I just see it as a very different kind of bravery versus what we think of as "brave" normally.

I agree. Peter joined Voldemort initially, not because he was afraid of Voldemort, but because, as he says in PoA, there was nothing he felt he could gain by not joining. Peter stayed with Voldemort even when he was treated poorly before Voldemort's return because he would have been treated more "poorly" by wizarding society and sent to Azkaban. Peter consistently does what's in his own best interests - some of which requires bravery, twisted though it may be.

IntricateLogic October 12th, 2007 3:06 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
^ :agree: Wormtail stuck with Voldemort through all of it because, 1. he'd be killed, if he could be. and 2. I think he was afraid of Azkaban, of facing the wizards he betrayed, and of re-living his worst memory (probably his betrayal of James and Lily). Some of this took bravery, in fact, most of it took bravery, but he was being brave because he was a coward. He was just protecting himself.

wickedwickedboy October 13th, 2007 11:01 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I was thinking, JKR made Peter's inner animal a "rat". Often a rat is associated with being cunning and betrayal: "sly as a rat" and "ratting one out"; or an untruthful individual: "ratfink", or a negative character in general: "he is a dirty rat!"

It is like poor Peter had no choice but to turn out to be those things. On the other hand, there are also good connotations about rats being small enough to carry out chores and duties that other animals are too big to do - for instance in the series, he was the one that could press the knot and stop the tree. But those things are outweighed by the bad connotations that are usually attributed to rats.

I found myself feeling a bit sorry for the rat character Peter was given. JKR said that Peter had a vulnerable and insecure character and that together with his rat-like character just made him a tremendously marked character imo.

Thinking back on certain things in the series; I am glad Harry found that he had 'regret' at the end of his life and that both he and James would not have killed Peter for what he'd done. I understand Sirius and Remus wanting to do so (I would have felt like them myself) - but in a way, the character was created with an inner animal that destined him to be, in everyway, 'a rat'. It allows me to feel some empathy for his character under those circumstances.

Chievrefueil October 14th, 2007 5:57 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4811067)
but in a way, the character was created with an inner animal that destined him to be, in everyway, 'a rat'. It allows me to feel some empathy for his character under those circumstances.

I disagree that his "inner animal" destined him to do what he did - betray his friends, etc. It was his nature to make such choices and it was that same nature that caused his "inner animal" to be a rat. He always had a choice.

wickedwickedboy October 14th, 2007 6:21 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chievrefueil (Post 4811436)
I disagree that his "inner animal" destined him to do what he did - betray his friends, etc. It was his nature to make such choices and it was that same nature that caused his "inner animal" to be a rat. He always had a choice.

I would agree, that makes sense. :) I still kinda feel sad for the dude tho.

Chievrefueil October 14th, 2007 2:20 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4811445)
I still kinda feel sad for the dude tho.

What about him makes you feel sad, though? He never had anything really bad happen to him until he was killed by his silver hand.

arithmancer October 14th, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chievrefueil (Post 4811645)
What about him makes you feel sad, though? He never had anything really bad happen to him until he was killed by his silver hand.

I disagree. His life as Scabbers may have been his own choice, but it was one I believe Peter felt was forced on him by circumstances. Since he was the reasons Sirius was in Azkaban for the same time period, there is certainly an element of poetic justice there, but still that is no life for a human being.Likewise the cutting off of his hand for Voldemort was pretty horrific (if again, self-inflicted).

Finally, in Spinner's End he is described as 'hunchbacked', which he was not before. I am inclined to believe ill-treatment by Voldemort had soemthing to do with that.

Chievrefueil October 14th, 2007 6:06 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius (Post 4811657)
I disagree. His life as Scabbers may have been his own choice, but it was one I believe Peter felt was forced on him by circumstances. Since he was the reasons Sirius was in Azkaban for the same time period, there is certainly an element of poetic justice there, but still that is no life for a human being.Likewise the cutting off of his hand for Voldemort was pretty horrific (if again, self-inflicted).

I won't feel sorry for Peter for these things. It would be different if he made a mistake (or several) and things spiralled out of control, which he regretted, but there is no suggestion that was the case. Every choice Peter made was motivated by selfishness and he showed no remorse. If Peter had owned up to what he did, presented himself to the Aurors on Sirius's behalf, and ended up with a life sentence in Azkaban, I would feel sorry for him. However, he didn't - he lived the life of a rat because he was avoiding doing the right thing. To me, that's not sympathetic at all.
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius
Finally, in Spinner's End he is described as 'hunchbacked', which he was not before. I am inclined to believe ill-treatment by Voldemort had soemthing to do with that.

It's likely that Peter was treated poorly by Voldemort, but, again, he must have known what Voldemort was like and chose to bring him back anyway. He went to help Voldemort, knowing what Voldemort was, because he was avoiding doing the right thing.

arithmancer October 15th, 2007 2:32 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chievrefueil (Post 4811796)
It's likely that Peter was treated poorly by Voldemort, but, again, he must have known what Voldemort was like and chose to bring him back anyway. He went to help Voldemort, knowing what Voldemort was, because he was avoiding doing the right thing.

To clarify, I don't feel sorry for the little rat/human myself, and really loved the manner of his death. :evil:

I was just pointing out that, objectively, he did not profit from his evil, and had many bad experiences which might rouse the pity of some hypothetical person.

silver ink pot October 15th, 2007 2:55 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius (Post 4811657)
Finally, in Spinner's End he is described as 'hunchbacked', which he was not before. I am inclined to believe ill-treatment by Voldemort had soemthing to do with that.

All that bowing and scraping he had to do for Voldemort had something to do with that, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

I don't feel sorry for him - he had choices right down the line just like everyone else. He was never forced into anything, and if he was afraid during the first war, he could have hidden with the Potters and let Voldemort go hang.

He never had to betray them, and he could have gone to Dumbledore for help, but he chose the opposite.

Even after that, he could have chosen not to take care of Babymort, or cut Harry to bring him back to life.

I was reading the Graveyard scene the other day and came across and interesting thing that Voldemort says about Peter:

"he was the able-bodied servant I needed"

That just reminded me of the phrase "ready, willing and able," which is what Peter was.

wickedwickedboy October 15th, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I see all the reasons not to feel sorry for Peter, but I do anyhow. I think that even with all of his bad choices and years of serving Voldemort, there was something within him crying for his decisions for several reasons. I don't think he was redeemed myself, but I do feel a bit sorry for him just because he merits pity in my opinion. At the same time, I, like Remus and Sirius, would have killed him also in the S. Shack - even feeling sorry for him, so I guess that says something about the character of my pity. :lol:

griffiegrrl October 24th, 2007 12:59 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
I think eventually that deep magic would have kicked in and taken over, MAKING him let go wheter he personally wanted to or not.

What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Fear. He had always been the follower, and since he could never own power himself, he sought out whoever at a certain time had the most. In other words, he always wanted to be on the winning side, to save his own skin. Peter realised after a while what it meant to be Voldemort's minion, and wasn't liking it very much, but was too afraid to flee because of the consequences he would get from either Voldemort or the "Good Side".

Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
Well, it ended up killing him in the end, didn't it? How ironic and like Voldemort is that. Also, the hand gave Peter confindence, something he'd had little of throughout his life.

Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
Probably because he wanted to sleep and Malfoy and Co. was making too much noise? :lol: Hm. Or yeah, perhaps he had a beef with Goyle Sr. and took it out on his son. (I'm sure somebody else has said that already, but eh...)

DeathlyH October 25th, 2007 1:06 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
In PoA, Dumbledore said that Harry would one day be very glad he had saved Wormtail's life. Well, DH came, and when Wormtail was choking Harry with his amazing silver hand, Harry reminded him of this, so he stopped, betrayed Voldemort, and got strangled by his own hand.
For one moment, let's say that Harry doesn't owe Pettigrew a debt, and he had allowed Remus and Sirius to kill the traitor. So there is no debt anywhere. Skip ahead to the Malfoy Manor scene, this rule still in place. When Bella and Narcissa hear Dobby's crack, they have to send someone down there. Seeing as they chose him before to fetch Griphook, this person would very likely be Draco. If Harry and Ron could tackle Peter, then they could certainly take care of Malfoy too; and he didn't have a silver hand to strangle Harry with. So Harry or Ron Imperios him, make him say everything's fine, and go back upstairs and act natural. Then the rest of the chapter could have continued very easily, exactly the same as before.

My question is: Why even include this life debt? Things would have been the same without it, and this includes Sirius getting recaptured. They leave the Shreaking Shack after killing Wormtail, Lupin transforms, things go on as usual. So why even include this pointless subplot that lasted about 3 seconds? Everybody thought it was going to be something huge and book-changing, but in the long run, it didn't change much.

Yoana December 5th, 2007 11:24 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl_Took (Post 4860046)
- Pettigrew. The traitor without a motive. What on earth does he get out of his appalling betrayal of Lily and James? Voldy just treats him like a piece of dirt! I mean, when you sell your soul to the devil, you're supposed to get something out of it, like a big reward, right? We never find out what Peter's motive was for his monstrous betrayal and so he is really nothing more than a Plot Device.

This is from a thread in The Cloak. Pearl, I hope you don't mind my transferring it over here. I find this to be a very interesting observation about Peter and I'd love to learn how others see it.

I personally agree that Jo could have thought up a believable motive for Peter to take this step. After all, he seems to be a person who would like to be in the least windy place, well sheltered. So it makes littl sense for him to go to Voldemort and throw himself in the lion's mouth (am I talking nonsene? please stop me if I am). What do others think?

Pearl_Took December 5th, 2007 11:47 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoana (Post 4860078)
This is from a thread in The Cloak. Pearl, I hope you don't mind my transferring it over here. I find this to be a very interesting observation about Peter and I'd love to learn how others see it.

I don't mind at all! :)

Quote:

I personally agree that Jo could have thought up a believable motive for Peter to take this step. After all, he seems to be a person who would like to be in the least windy place, well sheltered. So it makes little sense for him to go to Voldemort and throw himself in the lion's mouth (am I talking nonsene? please stop me if I am). What do others think?
No, it doesn't make much sense. The believable motive for the sheer monstrosity of Peter's betrayal is simply missing. You might betray your friends if you were subjected to a hideous enough torture and it would be hard to judge someone in that situation. But Peter gets so little out of his servitude to the Dark Lord that one wonders what tempted him to sell his soul to the devil in the first place. It's put forward in the books that his motive was fear, and wanting to be on the winning side because of insecurity, but this is not really that convincing.

Peter is a plot device rather than a three-dimensional character.

But I, too, love the manner of his death. :evil:

birdi86 December 6th, 2007 12:40 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

I always wondered about the Marauder's trust for Peter. I understand they thought him stupid, but that is just the type of weak character that all villans go after. According to Sirius and later Peter's kind of admission in the shreiking shack, he was with Voldy for a year before selling out the Potters. Whatever made him go? I think Voldy sought out a weak link in the resistence. I think James, Sirius and Remus should have thought of that. But I suppose they figured he was loyal if nothing else...he had always stood by and looked up to them before.
Thinking about this, I come back to Sirius' line in POA: "Then you should have died! Died rather than betray your friends, as we would have done for you!"

I don't think Peter ever believed that, if faced with the same situtation, James or Sirius would ever go to such lengths for him. (Which is not to say that they wouldn't just what Peter believed.) From the glimpses we see of the Marauders, it's almost like there's this amazing duo of James and Sirius and these two satellite friends - Remus and Peter. It's a friendship with a hierarchy built into it, especially in Peter's case as he's described as following the other two around and being a hanger-on.

Though he's compared to Neville (which was most likely a red herring) I've always thought of Peter as being similar to a Crabbe or Goyle sort. His friendship with James and Sirius being like Goyle and Crabbe's friendship with Draco. (Aside: I love that JKR once again reinforced the James - Draco parallel in DH.) Sure, Draco is genuinely distraught over Crabbe's death, he attempts to save Goyle in the RoR and he cared about both of them. It doesn't change the fact that their friendship wasn't one of equals. Draco also bossed them around, insulted them and made them follow along with his schemes which would end them being polyjuiced into little girls or hexed into slug-like creatures.

It's not surprising, especially after getting a taste of power from the Carrows' teachings (and possibly joining the DE) that Crabbe got sick of it. It's not unbelievable that Peter would go the same route. That Voldemort would play on his doubts and weaknesses just like he tried to play on Ron's with the lockets and Peter, not being nearly has strong as Ron, would give in and then revel in having abilities and powers that James and Sirius couldn't imagine. From what McGonagall says, he was never as talented as the others in school but, when it came time to frame Sirius and fake his own death, Peter proves himself a formidable opponent.

As for being sorted in Gryffindor, I think sorting just goes with what you most want to be or admire or have chosen. Peter was in Gryffindor because he wanted to be a brave and bold Gryffindor, he admired Gryffindor values and that's what he chose. It doesn't mean he could live up to those values.

arithmancer December 6th, 2007 12:42 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoana (Post 4860078)
I personally agree that Jo could have thought up a believable motive for Peter to take this step. After all, he seems to be a person who would like to be in the least windy place, well sheltered. So it makes littl sense for him to go to Voldemort and throw himself in the lion's mouth (am I talking nonsene? please stop me if I am). What do others think?

I always wondered whether Peter might not have been the Muggle-born Marauder. However, I found his motive as explained in the books credible even without that theory, thought it would fit right in, by giving him an extra reason to fear Voldemort. Here's the key passage from PoA, in my view:

PoA"You sold Lily and James to Voldemort," said Black, who was shaking too. "Do you deny it?"

Pettigrew burst into tears. It was horrible to watch, like an oversized, balding baby, cowering on the floor.

"Sirius, Sirius, what could I have done? The Dark Lord... you have no idea... he has weapons you can't imagine.... I was scared, Sirius, I was never brave like you and Remus and James. I never meant it to happen.... He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named forced me --"

"DON'T LIE!" bellowed Black. "YOU'D BEEN PASSING INFORMATION TO HIM FOR A YEAR BEFORE LILY AND JAMES DIED! YOU WERE HIS SPY!"

"He -- he was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh -- what was there to be gained by refusing him?"

"What was there to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard who has ever existed?" said Black, with a terrible fury in his face. "Only innocent lives, Peter!"

"You don't understand!" whined Pettigrew. "He would have killed me, Sirius!"


We are not told that Peter went to Voldemort and threw himself in the lion's mouth. I think that it happened the other way around - he was approached by Death Eaters and/or Voldemort, who threatened him, and he caved in to the pressure. This is certainly the implication of the line "what was to be gained by refusing him?", that he was ordered to do something, and did not refuse.

Peter was a member of the Order (I presume he followed his Marauder buddies into that because they expected it, rather than joining out of conviction and courage). We heard a lot (from Lupin, Molly, e. g. how terrible the times were, people in the Order getting killed left and right, etc.) When Peter was approached, I think he switched sides because he thought that would keep him safe.

Proof that while the Sorting Hat is never wrong (interview comment), a Gryffindor can be a coward.

wickedwickedboy December 6th, 2007 2:53 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius (Post 4860155)
Proof that while the Sorting Hat is never wrong (interview comment), a Gryffindor can be a coward.

Do you think perhaps though, that his bravery came through in the end when he resisted killing Harry (open defiance of Voldemort) and the hand began choking him? At first I thought that he was forced to do that because of the life debt, but JKR explained that the life debt is not something that one is magically forced to repay. So now I have a slightly different take on Peter, at least at the end of his life. I think his bravery came through (but whether or not that is what the hat saw I have no idea. :lol: - I am not a big believer in the hat theory because it seemed to sort a few people into the radically wrong house, imo. Although to be honest, I haven't considered the issue in depth.)

SusanBones December 6th, 2007 2:57 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Thanks for posting that quote. Peter seems to suggest, in my opinion, that he was forced to join the Death Eaters.
PoA "He -- he was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh -- what was there to be gained by refusing him?"
The fact that Peter was afraid to refuse him indicates to me that Voldemort came to recruit him, rather than Peter was looking for the next best bully to stand with. Peter was too weak to refuse. I don't think he wanted to be a Death Eater. It reminds me of Slughorn, who hides from the Death Eaters rather then risking death by refusing to join them.

wickedwickedboy December 6th, 2007 3:00 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
On the other hand, Peter did know Dumbledore and he was certainly another 'big man on the block' that could have offered him protection (if he felt his friends could not). I wonder why Peter didn't think to go to Dumbledore after he was confronted by Voldemort? He could have hid out as a rat in the castle...it seems that would have kept him safe.

arithmancer December 6th, 2007 3:09 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4860247)
On the other hand, Peter did know Dumbledore and he was certainly another 'big man on the block' that could have offered him protection (if he felt his friends could not).

The deaths of Order members such as the Prewetts probably convinced Peter that Dumbledore was not able to protect him from Voldemort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4860237)
Do you think perhaps though, that his bravery came through in the end when he resisted killing Harry (open defiance of Voldemort) and the hand began choking him?

No, I did not think this was Peter's courage very belatedly coming through. I think it was a moment of hesitation caused by the fact that Peter is not entirely without conscience - he is just too weak to act on the promptings of his conscience.

Quote:

I am not a big believer in the hat theory because it seemed to sort a few people into the radically wrong house, imo. Although to be honest, I haven't considered the issue in depth.)
It is not a theory, it is a comment by the author of the series in an interview.

[fidelset="The Leaky Cauldron and MuggleNet interview Joanne Kathleen Rowling" The Leaky Cauldron, 16 July 2005]ES: Has the sorting hat ever been wrong?

JKR: No.[/fieldset]

Of course, you may have a different interpretation based on your reading of the actual books. :)

Personally, I find this comment a big clue to her intentions with the Hat. The comment makes sense if its purpose is not to divide students by their true innate characteristics and destinies, but to simply place them in a House which is acceptable to them and to which they are at least somewhat suited, if possible (IMO, Peter is a poor match for any of the houses).

It explains the many seeming discrepancies. Is Hermione braver than she is intelligent? I do not think so (not because she lacks courage, because she is easily the brightest student in her year). Were Tom and Severus Purebloods? Nope! Is courage Peter's most conspicuous characteristic? Umm, no, I don't think so. But Tom's ancestry, ambition, and cunning suited him for Slytherin, Sev wanted it, Hermione wanted Gryffindor, and I suppose Peter probably did too. Maybe he figured his brave roommates would intimidate the rest of the school for him. ;)

wickedwickedboy December 6th, 2007 10:44 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius (Post 4860254)
The deaths of Order members such as the Prewetts probably convinced Peter that Dumbledore was not able to protect him from Voldemort.

Good point.


Quote:

No, I did not think this was Peter's courage very belatedly coming through. I think it was a moment of hesitation caused by the fact that Peter is not entirely without conscience - he is just too weak to act on the promptings of his conscience.
I could agree with that, but on the other hand, he did respond to the prompting of his conscience at that last moment, which under the circumstances, would require some bravery on his part I would think. Dumbledore said (as Harry mentioned in DH) that Peter felt regret. It is one thing to feel it and another to act on it. But yeah, without knowing exactly what Peter was thinking, interpretation is somewhat difficult.

Quote:

It is not a theory, it is a comment by the author of the series in an interview.

[fidelset="The Leaky Cauldron and MuggleNet interview Joanne Kathleen Rowling" The Leaky Cauldron, 16 July 2005]ES: Has the sorting hat ever been wrong?

JKR: No.[/fieldset]

Of course, you may have a different interpretation based on your reading of the actual books. :)
Ah, thanks for that. Nah, I usually just go with what she says because I figure it was what she meant to come across from the various alternatives I could come up with. In that case, then I would say that predominant characteristics (even only one) might make a house suitable for a person. For example, Peter was not terribly brave, but he did seem to have a lot of "nerve", another characteristic of Gryffindors. Perhaps that is what I am confusing with bravery in his case. He simply had the nerve to plead for his life in POA with Sirius and Remus; to withstand killing Harry in DH, and to betray his friends and frame Sirius prior to the series. Maybe that is a better explanation for Peter's Gryffindor connection?

I agree that most people could have belonged to more than one house. Peter himself could have fit in Hufflepuff for his 'toiling' abilities. He seemed willing to toil for anyone who could protect him. Peter also showed cunning however which would have made him a Slytherin candidate. Perhaps Gryffindor was the best choice for reasons related to his ultimate salvation.

Yoana December 6th, 2007 11:34 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4860237)
Do you think perhaps though, that his bravery came through in the end when he resisted killing Harry (open defiance of Voldemort) and the hand began choking him?

I don't think it was open defiance of Voldemort. It was more of a moment of hesitation, and, frankly, it seemed to me that Peter was just taken aback from a split moment when Harry shouted, "You owe me, Wormtail!" - and I'm not entiresly convinced that he wouldn't have gone on with his actions if he had had time to take an individual decision. But the silver hand was obviously programmed to kick off immedieately after even the slightest hesitation. That's the impression I got, anyway.

Zara, you make a very good point about Peter having been forced. I can see now that he might have been, from the word "refusing" which he used. And the point about the Oreder member deaths is an excellent one, I can understand how Peter would be scared for his own life.

Pearl_Took December 6th, 2007 11:51 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by birdi86 (Post 4860152)
Thinking about this, I come back to Sirius' line in POA: "Then you should have died! Died rather than betray your friends, as we would have done for you!"

I don't think Peter ever believed that, if faced with the same situtation, James or Sirius would ever go to such lengths for him. (Which is not to say that they wouldn't just what Peter believed.) From the glimpses we see of the Marauders, it's almost like there's this amazing duo of James and Sirius and these two satellite friends - Remus and Peter. It's a friendship with a hierarchy built into it, especially in Peter's case as he's described as following the other two around and being a hanger-on.

Though he's compared to Neville (which was most likely a red herring) I've always thought of Peter as being similar to a Crabbe or Goyle sort. His friendship with James and Sirius being like Goyle and Crabbe's friendship with Draco. (Aside: I love that JKR once again reinforced the James - Draco parallel in DH.) Sure, Draco is genuinely distraught over Crabbe's death, he attempts to save Goyle in the RoR and he cared about both of them. It doesn't change the fact that their friendship wasn't one of equals. Draco also bossed them around, insulted them and made them follow along with his schemes which would end them being polyjuiced into little girls or hexed into slug-like creatures.

It's not surprising, especially after getting a taste of power from the Carrows' teachings (and possibly joining the DE) that Crabbe got sick of it. It's not unbelievable that Peter would go the same route. That Voldemort would play on his doubts and weaknesses just like he tried to play on Ron's with the lockets and Peter, not being nearly has strong as Ron, would give in and then revel in having abilities and powers that James and Sirius couldn't imagine. From what McGonagall says, he was never as talented as the others in school but, when it came time to frame Sirius and fake his own death, Peter proves himself a formidable opponent.

As for being sorted in Gryffindor, I think sorting just goes with what you most want to be or admire or have chosen. Peter was in Gryffindor because he wanted to be a brave and bold Gryffindor, he admired Gryffindor values and that's what he chose. It doesn't mean he could live up to those values.

Great post. :tu:

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4860449)
I agree that most people could have belonged to more than one house. Peter himself could have fit in Hufflepuff for his 'toiling' abilities. He seemed willing to toil for anyone who could protect him. Peter also showed cunning however which would have made him a Slytherin candidate. Perhaps Gryffindor was the best choice for reasons related to his ultimate salvation.

Peter was ultimately saved? :shrug:

I must confess that I don't read him as such. :evil: (Heartless, punitive, judgment-wielding wench that I be. :lol: )

I don't think it was bravery on his part that kept him from killing Harry in the cellar at Malfoy Manor. I agree with Yoana and zgirnius that it was a brief second of hesitation and that he is too weak to act on the promptings of his conscience.

One of the things that chills me most in the entire series is when Peter ties Harry up in the graveyard at the end of GoF, to be tortured and killed by the newly born again Voldemort. This is the teenage son of his former best friend he is offering up as the sacrifice. It's chilling to the bone.

This is a great discussion, it's helping me to see Peter as a more believable character.

wickedwickedboy December 6th, 2007 12:04 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Well I think each reader would have to decide if Peter was redeemed in the end. I was merely putting forth the argument that Dumbledore and Harry indicated that Peter had felt repentance and had acted on it. I myself don't really have an opinion on it at this point. He certainly behaved horribly during the series at various points, but then again, who didn't? :lol:

Pearl_Took December 6th, 2007 12:07 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4860475)
Well I think each reader would have to decide if Peter was redeemed in the end.

Oh, of course. :)

Quote:

He certainly behaved horribly during the series at various points, but then again, who didn't? :lol:
Quite. ;)

Yoana December 6th, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I'm not sure if Peter was redeemed. I'd like to think that everyone is, because I hate to judge. But I do think the part with his hesitancy wasn't written as a moment of remorse, or regret, or even consideration of what he had done. I was a little disappointed even, because after Dumbledore had said in PoA "You'll be glad you saved his life" to Harry, I expected more. The scene feels to me as if Peter is just surprised by what Harry says. Why didn't he think about owing him when he was tying him to the gravestone? That was a great moment for remorse and defying Voldemort.

I don't think he would have defied Voldemort and helped Harry if he had been given free choice. I tend to believe he would have done whatever Voldemort asked him to do - based on my impressions from his actions up to that point. He never showed any sign of nobility or fairness. But then, redemption is not up to me to decide. So maybe he was redeemed. Oh, I don't know, I got confused :shrug:

Chris December 6th, 2007 5:40 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I don't know if Peter was redeemed by hesitation. However, I do think he was brave in an odd way. He stood up to his friends, and that was brave. But it's a kind of bravery quite distinct from the bravery shown by those who chose what is right over what is easy. I'm not condoning his behavior - few of his choices from the age of 18 or 19 until his death were good choices - but I am noting he had a kind of bravery.

wickedwickedboy December 6th, 2007 6:25 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I am totally unconvinced by Dumbledore's definition of bravery: doing what is right over what is easy. For some people, being brave IS easy - the easiest thing to do for them simply because taking the easy way out is unthinkable to them (i.e., James dashing to confront Voldy). Other times, what seems to be the easy way out is actually not because it means making a sacrifice - that is, giving up something you really want, but feel you must let go of, which in and of itself is a very difficult and brave decision to make and act upon (Lupin leaving his family to fight along side Harry - the latter by no means "easy" to do considering Harry was under constant fire as was Lupin).

In the case of Peter, was it really the easy choice to live as a rat for 12 years rather than confront the truth (the brave thing to do)? 12 years as a rat is not exactly living the 'easy' life. That in itself is a rather brave choice, although people with the character of Harry or Dumbledore might not think so. But I am not so sure. I certainly don't think he took the easy way out when he returned to Voldemort. By then, Peter knew exactly what Voldemort was all about. While he knew he'd have some protection, the protection was nearly as "hard" a choice to accept as life in Azkaban.

In any case, I don't believe that definition of doing the right thing over the easy thing is always the correct way to decide whether or not one is acting bravely. It fits certain characters, like Snape, who did make difficult, brave choices (because in his case, staying with Voldemort would be easier as he actually believed in Voldy's ways and means), but not those like Regulus who had a choice between two difficult alternatives. That comes down to a choice between doing what is right and doing what is wrong but equally difficult, imo.

CoeurDeLyon December 6th, 2007 8:14 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

In the case of Peter, was it really the easy choice to live as a rat for 12 years rather than confront the truth (the brave thing to do)? 12 years as a rat is not exactly living the 'easy' life. That in itself is a rather brave choice, although people with the character of Harry or Dumbledore might not think so.

I think the choice to live as a rat was a very coward-like move on his part. I dont think that it was easy, but I think it was easier than facing those who trusted him, which I think is what Dumbledore meant by his definition of brave. When you have a choice to make, there is an easier one, and one that might cause you some hardship, but it would be braver than the first. I think Dumbledore summed it up as well as he could, but I think he knew bravery can be more complex.

Peter was scared, and I cant say that he was brave at all. I think if he was brave, he would have done like Bellatrix did and admitted he was in Voldemorts league and owned up to what he did. Instead he put the blame on his best friend and turned into a rat, well the animal form of one, since he already was a human rat.

Quote:

I certainly don't think he took the easy way out when he returned to Voldemort.
To Peter I think it was easier, because he needed to be protected, which Voldemorts name alone would give him. If he had even an ounce of bravery in him I think he would have said he was Voldemorts man through and through a long time ago. The choice for Peter at that point was to go back to the man that you cower in front of, who you only run with because you are to scared to stand up for what is right, or face your old friends. I think he made the easy choice once again.

Beatifically January 4th, 2008 5:42 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
So, I was looking through the Did the Sorting Hat Mis-sort Key Characters? and I noticed almost everyone found problems with Peter's sorting. According to JKR, the Sorting Hat's choices were impeccable, so I guess Peter was somewhat brave. It is in my personal opinion that Peter, from what we know of him when he was an adult, was best suited to be a Slytherin.

I don't think Peter was a Slytherin as an adult because he ended up as a Death Eater. I am basing my opinion based on Slytherin's qualities. Slytherin's are considered cunning and ambitious and, according to JKR in her interview with Pottercast, they tend to have a sense of self-preservation. All of these qualities, IMO, describe Peter.

Cunning

Peter was cunning enough to do many things for Voldemort. He successfully managed to fool everyone in the Order. Some speculate that Peter played a role in the mistrust Sirius and Remus had against each other. If that is true, then this strengthens my belief that he's cunning. He must have been subtle in convincing either of them to go against the other. Another example that supports my belief is that Peter managed to make Sirius look guilty for all the things he did. He was cunning enough to make it seem like Sirius betrayed the Potters and killed him along with twelve other people. Not to mention, Peter figured out how to hide from the Death Eaters and still be in touch with the Wizarding World.

Secretive (?)
Peter was pretty good at keeping secrets. There isn't any canon that suggests Peter gave huge hints that Remus was a werewolf, so he must have been good at keeping that secret from others. Peter's greatest achievement in keeping secrets is when he fooled everyone into thinking he was on the Order's side. There isn't anything that says being secretive is a Slytherin trait, but I would associate it with Slytherin the most most out of all the houses. JKR said she based the houses loosely off the four basic elements, with Slytherin's element as water. One of the qualities of the water element
is being secretive. Therefore I do think it is a trait that describes Peter and Slytherin, but I understand if others disagree.

Ambition
Peter's ambition is very similar to the next trait, self-preservation. Peter's main ambition is for selfish reasons. His main ambition throughout his life was , in my opinion, to keep himself safe.

Self-Preservation
This is a very dominant trait in Peter's personality, I think. Peter chose to become friends with the Marauders since they were popular and could remain "safe." Peter chose to betray his friends and the Order by joining Voldemort because he thought that was the safest thing for him to do. He chose to return to Voldemort because he was scared of his former best friends. One of the only times Peter didn't do something for his own selfish reasons was when he let go of his grip on Harry's neck. That wasn't selfish, that was remorse. If Peter didn't die and Voldemort got wind about Peter's betrayal to him, I think Peter would have suffered considerably.

I'm not trying to say that Peter wasn't brave, but I think Slytherin described him better, based on his behavior that is shown in canon.

JMO.

arithmancer January 4th, 2008 6:34 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Total fan speculation alert. I think Peter might have been Muggleborn. It would be a big reason not to put him in Slytherin, and also a big reason for him to get scared as the war went on.

There is also, of course, the element of choice. Maybe Peter wanted Gryffindor.

Beatifically January 4th, 2008 7:17 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius (Post 4889081)
Total fan speculation alert. I think Peter might have been Muggleborn. It would be a big reason not to put him in Slytherin, and also a big reason for him to get scared as the war went on.

It would make sense, since choies are so important and the Sorting Hat takes that into account.

If he was Muggleborn, it'd just add to how hypocritical Voldemort is.

The_Green_Woods January 4th, 2008 10:59 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beatifically (Post 4889106)
It would make sense, since choies are so important and the Sorting Hat takes that into account.

If he was Muggleborn, it'd just add to how hypocritical Voldemort is.

He was, Voldemort I mean; he asked for Lily to join him and she was muggleborn. Peter I think asked the Hat to sort him into Gryffrindor.

He always tried to surround himself with people stronger than him; (maybe had some sort of complex or something) and he leaned heavily on them; he may have thought that Gryffindor will have a lot of brave guys with whom he could become friends with and be thought of, by the others as strong as them.

Beatifically January 4th, 2008 9:06 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4889195)
He was, Voldemort I mean; he asked for Lily to join him and she was muggleborn.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Voldemort claims to be against "Mudbloods," yet he asks the talented ones to join him.

Quote:

Peter I think asked the Hat to sort him into Gryffrindor

He always tried to surround himself with people stronger than him; (maybe had some sort of complex or something) and he leaned heavily on them; he may have thought that Gryffindor will have a lot of brave guys with whom he could become friends with and be thought of, by the others as strong as them.
That's what I was thinking as well. Even though he probably had some form of courage, I do think he has a lot of Slytherin traits. (See above post.) It makes sense to me. Every person is a mixture of house traits, and I think this is the case with Peter as well.

The_Green_Woods January 5th, 2008 4:21 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

posted by beatifically
That's what I was thinking as well. Even though he probably had some form of courage, I do think he has a lot of Slytherin traits. (See above post.) It makes sense to me. Every person is a mixture of house traits, and I think this is the case with Peter as well.
I hate the rat to be in Slytherin, I think. I also think, he would have fitted well there (not because he has Slytherin traits or Gryffindor ones; he doesn't have any good traits as far as I am concerned), because he seems to ingratiate himself where ever he is with athe stronger persons. He is a true sycophant, I think. The _____ RAT!!!!!!!

Beatifically January 5th, 2008 7:33 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4890124)
I hate the rat to be in Slytherin, I think. I also think, he would have fitted well there (not because he has Slytherin traits or Gryffindor ones; he doesn't have any good traits as far as I am concerned)

A person could have what people would generally see as "good" traits and abuse them. Voldemort was intelligent, a trait many find admirable, yet he used it for evil purposes. Peter was cunning and ambitious, but those traits showed when he decided to betray his friends.

The_Green_Woods January 5th, 2008 7:52 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Peter was cunning and ambitious, but those traits showed when he decided to betray his friends.
Cunning and ambitious for what? You know, Peter's role in the books is baffling. He has devoted friends. He betrays them. He joins Voldemort. He is treated like scum there. Where is the ambition and the achievement?

Why did he turn and what would he receive for that?

There is really no apparent reason. That was why I fely he was a true sycophant, who is one of those truly weak people; weak mentally and morally, because they don't know where they stand and what they do and why they do it.

Peter never got any glory for betraying the Potters. He never rose up in the ranks like Luicus or even Snape. He never commanded respect and he never commanded fear. He was a snivelling rat and a very shallow one I am afraid.

He joined the Marauders because they were in his opinion the strongest people in School. He joined Voldemort because he was the strongest person in Peter's opinion at that time. There is really no sense IMO about Peter and his acts.

LoonyMagic January 5th, 2008 11:58 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4890284)
Cunning and ambitious for what? You know, Peter's role in the books is baffling. He has devoted friends. He betrays them. He joins Voldemort. He is treated like scum there. Where is the ambition and the achievement?

I agree. He doesn't show an ambition to do anything. For example he could try and aim to do better in Voldemort's eyes and try to get himself higher amoung the ranks of the Death Eaters, yet he chooses not to. He lacks ambition or drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4890284)
Why did he turn and what would he receive for that?

I think he turned on his friends because he was never brave enough to stand up for himself or what he believed in (in fact we don't have any true indication of his thoughts on the war). His only goal, IMO, was to stay alive even if it meant pretending to believe something you don't and being treated like a doormat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4890284)
There is really no apparent reason. That was why I fely he was a true sycophant, who is one of those truly weak people; weak mentally and morally, because they don't know where they stand and what they do and why they do it.

Peter never got any glory for betraying the Potters. He never rose up in the ranks like Luicus or even Snape. He never commanded respect and he never commanded fear. He was a snivelling rat and a very shallow one I am afraid.

I completely agree. He is weak mentally and morally. He doesn't have his own, strong views or ideas, instead he relies on others to order him about and effectively tell him what to think.

I think Peter expected to be rewarded by Voldemort for telling him about the Potter's whereabouts. If things had gone well and Voldy had killed Harry then I think Peter would have been rewarded. But I don't think that he just wanted to be accepted by Voldemort. I think he was just truly scared for himself and didn't have enough will power to go against Voldemort. He really was pitiful and a poor excuse for a friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4890284)
He joined the Marauders because they were in his opinion the strongest people in School. He joined Voldemort because he was the strongest person in Peter's opinion at that time. There is really no sense IMO about Peter and his acts.

I agree, he leeches himself to power. He does it to keep himself safe. As long as he's with Voldemort, he believed that he'd be untouchable, IMO, as everyone is terrified of Voldemort. Of course, Peter didn't consider how ruthless Voldemort is and how little he would care for Peter. I think Peter expected to be welcomed with open arms, but of course it doesn't work that way.

Okay, I don't think that will make much sense to anyone else, but it does to me :D

Beatifically January 5th, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4890284)
Cunning and ambitious for what? You know, Peter's role in the books is baffling. He has devoted friends. He betrays them. He joins Voldemort. He is treated like scum there. Where is the ambition and the achievement?

I wrote a whole entire post on why he's very Slytherin-like. I quoted it below if you wish to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatifically (Post 4889034)
So, I was looking through the Did the Sorting Hat Mis-sort Key Characters? and I noticed almost everyone found problems with Peter's sorting. According to JKR, the Sorting Hat's choices were impeccable, so I guess Peter was somewhat brave. It is in my personal opinion that Peter, from what we know of him when he was an adult, was best suited to be a Slytherin.

I don't think Peter was a Slytherin as an adult because he ended up as a Death Eater. I am basing my opinion based on Slytherin's qualities. Slytherin's are considered cunning and ambitious and, according to JKR in her interview with Pottercast, they tend to have a sense of self-preservation. All of these qualities, IMO, describe Peter.

Cunning

Peter was cunning enough to do many things for Voldemort. He successfully managed to fool everyone in the Order. Some speculate that Peter played a role in the mistrust Sirius and Remus had against each other. If that is true, then this strengthens my belief that he's cunning. He must have been subtle in convincing either of them to go against the other. Another example that supports my belief is that Peter managed to make Sirius look guilty for all the things he did. He was cunning enough to make it seem like Sirius betrayed the Potters and killed him along with twelve other people. Not to mention, Peter figured out how to hide from the Death Eaters and still be in touch with the Wizarding World.

Secretive (?)
Peter was pretty good at keeping secrets. There isn't any canon that suggests Peter gave huge hints that Remus was a werewolf, so he must have been good at keeping that secret from others. Peter's greatest achievement in keeping secrets is when he fooled everyone into thinking he was on the Order's side. There isn't anything that says being secretive is a Slytherin trait, but I would associate it with Slytherin the most most out of all the houses. JKR said she based the houses loosely off the four basic elements, with Slytherin's element as water. One of the qualities of the water element
is being secretive. Therefore I do think it is a trait that describes Peter and Slytherin, but I understand if others disagree.

Ambition
Peter's ambition is very similar to the next trait, self-preservation. Peter's main ambition is for selfish reasons. His main ambition throughout his life was , in my opinion, to keep himself safe.

Self-Preservation
This is a very dominant trait in Peter's personality, I think. Peter chose to become friends with the Marauders since they were popular and could remain "safe." Peter chose to betray his friends and the Order by joining Voldemort because he thought that was the safest thing for him to do. He chose to return to Voldemort because he was scared of his former best friends. One of the only times Peter didn't do something for his own selfish reasons was when he let go of his grip on Harry's neck. That wasn't selfish, that was remorse. If Peter didn't die and Voldemort got wind about Peter's betrayal to him, I think Peter would have suffered considerably.

I'm not trying to say that Peter wasn't brave, but I think Slytherin described him better, based on his behavior that is shown in canon.

JMO.

Quote:

Why did he turn and what would he receive for that?
Protection. The Order members were outnumbered and almost all of them were killed. Remus says so himself that the first war was a bad time. Peter would've rather be treated like scum than have himself killed.

Quote:

There is really no sense IMO about Peter and his acts.
I am not trying to excuse Peter's acts. I don't even like Peter. I am just trying to analyze what we know of him.

The_Green_Woods January 6th, 2008 3:33 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beatifically (Post 4890864)
I wrote a whole entire post on why he's very Slytherin-like. I quoted it below if you wish to see it.

I really don't think Peter was fit for any House., let alone Slytherin. He is a character that makes no sense to me. Why would he leave 3 friends who would have really died for him and all that to go over to Voldemort is something I just canoot understand.

Quote:

Protection. The Order members were outnumbered and almost all of them were killed. Remus says so himself that the first war was a bad time. Peter would've rather be treated like scum than have himself killed.
The Order members, Moody says, were picked upon one by one and killed, outnumbered five to one or something like that in OOTP. Peter, was already a DE, passing information about the Order to Voldemot IMO and I think, the rat gave the information for more than half those members to be killed easily. :grumble:

Quote:

I am not trying to excuse Peter's acts. I don't even like Peter. I am just trying to analyze what we know of him.
I know. I don't like him either. :td:

Quote:

posted by LoonyMagic
I agree, he leeches himself to power. He does it to keep himself safe. As long as he's with Voldemort, he believed that he'd be untouchable, IMO, as everyone is terrified of Voldemort. Of course, Peter didn't consider how ruthless Voldemort is and how little he would care for Peter. I think Peter expected to be welcomed with open arms, but of course it doesn't work that way.

Okay, I don't think that will make much sense to anyone else, but it does to me
I think you may have a point here, only I think, Peter kept choosing what he thought was the winning side, always, so that he could be safe.

He was with the Marauders, because he knew they would take good care of him, and later, when Voldemort came on the scene and he saw how everyone was scared of him, I think, he chose Voldemort, because he thought he would be safe. Only once he joined, there would be no going back and he was not really courageous to back out.

In the same way when he was sorted, I think he may have had an intense desire to be in Gryffindor, because he may have thought all the bravest and the strongest students will be there.

Beatifically January 7th, 2008 5:16 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4891226)
I really don't think Peter was fit for any House., let alone Slytherin. He is a character that makes no sense to me. Why would he leave 3 friends who would have really died for him and all that to go over to Voldemort is something I just canoot understand.

Well, if the Sorting Hat sorted him as he was when he was an adult, the hat would have to put him somewhere. I mean, I think Voldemort is a lot worse since he never showed remorse, whereas Wormtail did. So if the Hat could sort Voldemort, I'm sure it would sort Peter as well.

The reason why Wormtail probably left is his knowledge of Voldemort's rise to power. Wormtail was aware of how intelligent the other Marauders were, and I think at the same time he realized that he was the most vulnerable. He chose to be with Voldemort because he felt he was safer there than he was with the Order, the organization that suffered heavy losses.

Quote:

The Order members, Moody says, were picked upon one by one and killed, outnumbered five to one or something like that in OOTP. Peter, was already a DE, passing information about the Order to Voldemot IMO and I think, the rat gave the information for more than half those members to be killed easily. :grumble:
Well, I think it was Remus who said that. :p But otherwise, that's an accurate interpretation. I do think Wormtail was the cause of many of those deaths, but many of them must have died/tortured/hoodwinked for Peter to change sides.

Leslie33 January 7th, 2008 7:54 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
While he didn't have too large a role in Deathly Hallows we finally know the fate of Peter Pettigrew
  • Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him? I don't think it was a case that Peter would have "forgotten". I think Peter was so cowardly, he hoped Harry would forget about the Life Debt or fall prey to his "Oh Harry" grovelling.
  • What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear? Fear, fear and fear. No loyalty at all.
  • Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him? To me it was nothing more than a silver hand and an ending to his agony.
  • Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express? Peter just grew up, he did not mature. He was agitated when Goyle teased him, so bit him to get back.

The_Green_Woods January 8th, 2008 12:12 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

posted by beatifically
Well, if the Sorting Hat sorted him as he was when he was an adult, the hat would have to put him somewhere. I mean, I think Voldemort is a lot worse since he never showed remorse, whereas Wormtail did. So if the Hat could sort Voldemort, I'm sure it would sort Peter as well.
Yes it did and I think it sorted Peter into Gryffindor because the rat wanted to go there; I really cannot think of one House where he would completely fit in, even though you do raise points for Slytherin. But I just cannot see him there.

Quote:

Well, I think it was Remus who said that.
:)

Quote:

posted by Leslie33
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him? I don't think it was a case that Peter would have "forgotten". I think Peter was so cowardly, he hoped Harry would forget about the Life Debt or fall prey to his "Oh Harry" grovelling.
I don't think so too. Not only was Peter cowardly but never would he have wanted to fulfil the debt. He was surprised and loosened his grip for a second, and Harry took advantage of that is what I feel. The rat!

wickedwickedboy January 8th, 2008 10:03 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods (Post 4893708)
I don't think so too. Not only was Peter cowardly but never would he have wanted to fulfil the debt. He was surprised and loosened his grip for a second, and Harry took advantage of that is what I feel. The rat!

Dumbledore and Harry believed that it was remorse via the reminder of the debt owed. Peter was acting moody and down when he visited the Potters before they died. He may have felt pressured by Voldemort, but truly regretted having to betray his friends. Over time, I suppose he rationalized his decision, but for some reason, Harry and Dumbledore felt that his regret never really faded. The way it was written does leave that up for debate though...it did appear as though he was taken off guard rather than making a considered decision.

milamilamila January 8th, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
One thing I always wondered about Peter was where his intense desire to live came from. Was it a fear of death? Because we are never shown that he actually has something worth living for. He didn't have a family, we aren't shown a significant other. Peter was more willing to spend twelve years as a rat that to die. He was treated like scum by Voldemort and was a servant for Snape. He doesn't appear to have the greatest life. Peter's friendship with James, Sirius and Remus seems like one of the high points of his existence, but yet he's willing to sell them out to save himself.
I just was always curious as to what was so important to him that he was willing to betray everyone around him to save himself. When you think about it, he gave Voldemort the information to kill the Potters so that he could spend more than a decade as a rat. I know that no one expected Voldemort to meet his downfall there, but no matter what, after that moment, Peter would have been revealed as the spy. The fact that he is clearly terrified of death is something Peter shares with Voldemort. I just wonder what he had to live for that was worth the lives of one of his best friends and his family.
Sorry for the ramblingness of this post, once I started typing it was kind of like word vomit:whistle: I just always found Pettigrew's motives interesting. I despise him as a character, but it's interesting to think about what makes him do what he did.

wickedwickedboy January 9th, 2008 1:07 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milamilamila (Post 4894137)
One thing I always wondered about Peter was where his intense desire to live came from. Was it a fear of death? Because we are never shown that he actually has something worth living for. He didn't have a family, we aren't shown a significant other. Peter was more willing to spend twelve years as a rat that to die. He was treated like scum by Voldemort and was a servant for Snape. He doesn't appear to have the greatest life. Peter's friendship with James, Sirius and Remus seems like one of the high points of his existence, but yet he's willing to sell them out to save himself.
I just was always curious as to what was so important to him that he was willing to betray everyone around him to save himself. When you think about it, he gave Voldemort the information to kill the Potters so that he could spend more than a decade as a rat. I know that no one expected Voldemort to meet his downfall there, but no matter what, after that moment, Peter would have been revealed as the spy. The fact that he is clearly terrified of death is something Peter shares with Voldemort. I just wonder what he had to live for that was worth the lives of one of his best friends and his family.
Sorry for the ramblingness of this post, once I started typing it was kind of like word vomit:whistle: I just always found Pettigrew's motives interesting. I despise him as a character, but it's interesting to think about what makes him do what he did.

I kind of felt the same way when reading. We are really not given much information on Peter and a lot of thoughts about him are pure conjecture. He did not have a good reason to betray that we know of - he claims he was tortured into it, but it seems like he could have gone to Dumbledore at that point for help. JRK said he was vulnerable and insecure, maybe Peter lied and he was not actually tortured by Voldemort - maybe he just saw him as a source of comfort. Voldemort was very charming at the time of the first war, handsome, charasmatic and charming. It could be that Peter simply was entranced by Voldemort and suckered into his evil schemes based on his belief he was doing the right thing for himself.

The way he was written, his character remained a bit of a mystery, and in a way, for my part, it made him more likeable overall. He seemed, if nothing else, consistent. That is, until Dumbledore and Harry spoke of his having remorse. I didn't find that altogether believeable, so I still feel some consistency with his character. I like consistency where I don't see a reason for change, so it worked for me.

sllagnire January 9th, 2008 2:02 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4894309)
I kind of felt the same way when reading. We are really not given much information on Peter and a lot of thoughts about him are pure conjecture. He did not have a good reason to betray that we know of - he claims he was tortured into it, but it seems like he could have gone to Dumbledore at that point for help. JRK said he was vulnerable and insecure, maybe Peter lied and he was not actually tortured by Voldemort - maybe he just saw him as a source of comfort. Voldemort was very charming at the time of the first war, handsome, charasmatic and charming. It could be that Peter simply was entranced by Voldemort and suckered into his evil schemes based on his belief he was doing the right thing for himself.

As you said, we weren't given much information about him, but from what we do know (and what was said by other characters), it would seem to me that he went to Voldemort as a source of power. We saw that as a student he chose to follow around some of the smartest and most powerful students of the year. We are told that he was not the best of students and often used the others as a source of aid and protection. The way I see his turning to Voldemort is that he saw that he was getting more and more powerful and would soon be taking over his source of refuge, so rather than fight it he would join him. He may have been tortured a bit, but I don't think (and this is just my opinion) that it would have taken much to persuade him.

The_Green_Woods January 9th, 2008 3:29 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4894104)
Dumbledore and Harry believed that it was remorse via the reminder of the debt owed. Peter was acting moody and down when he visited the Potters before they died. He may have felt pressured by Voldemort, but truly regretted having to betray his friends. Over time, I suppose he rationalized his decision, but for some reason, Harry and Dumbledore felt that his regret never really faded. The way it was written does leave that up for debate though...it did appear as though he was taken off guard rather than making a considered decision.

Well I don't know about remorse. He certainly did not feel any at the graveyard, nor when the Potters were killed, and not when he was choking Harry. When Harry reminded him about the debt, he loosened for a second, giving Harry the time to get out of his grasp and for Ron to take the wand (I don't have the book with me, so I think that's the way it happened). Else Peter would have made Harry unconcious and called for Voldemort.

What I really don't get is the motive. He had no motive to turn away from the Light. He was with Dumbledore the only qizard Voldemort ever feared. I guess I really don't understand why did it and what he hoped to get out of it.

And I agree with everyone who said we don't have much on him. So we also don't know the reasons behind his actions, I suppose. And the lack of plausible reasons is what is baffling to me.

Chris January 9th, 2008 3:34 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
It could be as simple as he was presented much the same choice as Dean's father - "join us or die". Negotiations at wand-point can produce results. Voldemort may have known he was the weakest of the marauders, and he wanted an "in" to the stronger ones, who'd rebuffed him. Peter was a good opportunity here.

The_Green_Woods January 9th, 2008 3:44 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chparadise (Post 4894437)
It could be as simple as he was presented much the same choice as Dean's father - "join us or die". Negotiations at wand-point can produce results. Voldemort may have known he was the weakest of the marauders, and he wanted an "in" to the stronger ones, who'd rebuffed him. Peter was a good opportunity here.

You may be correct and if that were the case, Peter had many, opportunities to tell Dumbledore or his friends that he was coerced by Voldemort and he had at that time, no other alternative , but to take the mark. He could have become a spy. He could have been protected in other ways by Dumbledore.

He was able to stay as a rat for 13 years; that shows us he was capable of survival by any means. Even if he had to live like a rat.

He never told anyone, if he was forced to become a DE, I mean, and he spent his days until he had to change into a rat, by happily passing information that led to so many deaths, including that of his friends.

DixieWitch March 25th, 2008 2:18 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
if my memory serves me, peter also turned in a lot of other death eaters (or they suspected him of it). peter wasn't a particularly brave man, like sirius and james; he was probably quiet and shy, like remus, and scared out of his wits. likely voldemort threatened to kill his family if he told anyone (his mother is still alive, presumably) that he was a death eater, and he likely felt trapped, not wanting anyone he knew and loved to die because he couldn't provide a simple name. long story short, he made a few stupid decisions that cost him dearly, and he didn't have the strength to back out. yes, he could have told someone, but he was a very scared, likely confused man who was barely out of his teenage years and was still having confidence and identity issues.

DeliciousMoon April 5th, 2008 11:13 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
This was just posted in the Snape thread by Ignisia. My response didn't have much to do with Snape, so I felt it would be more appropriate to post it here. This is the quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ignisia (Post 4981509)
Back to Tonk's questions a couple pages ago: Snape's actions vs. Wormtail's.

I would definitely say that Wormtail's actions were worse, for several reasons:
  • Wormtail was quite openly their "friend"
  • He knew all his victims very well and was on their good side
  • He knew exactly who was going to be killed and did it anyway
  • He never felt any remorse for what he did
  • He did not attempt to rectify the situation

I'm not going to argue who was worse, Snape or Peter. Both imo, were bad men overall, for different reasons. The point here that I disagree with is:
He never felt any remorse for what he did.

I find it hard to believe that Peter never regretted or felt bad for what he did to Lily and James. He was a coward, not necessarily a heartless killer, though his cowardly actions did lead to the deaths of his friends. I think he knew what he was doing was bad and he did have his morals in check, but he was a coward and was too scared to do the right thing. I think he did feel miserable after James and Lily's deaths.

BenGerman April 5th, 2008 11:21 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I felt much worse about Peter's death than i thought i would. I'm not sure why possibly because of the way he died, it was very unexpected. I think i felt worse after reading the book for the second time because i knew it was the last of the Marauders. It was an odd sensation, because i really didn't like his cowardice ways, but at the same time he was once a good friend of Lily and James. I think he never really went "bad" but like i said because he was a coward, it turned him into the apprentice of Voldemort.

DeliciousMoon April 5th, 2008 11:55 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I don't think he went "bad" either, but his cowardice certainly brought his character down. I thought he was the one who was going to be redeemed in a sense for what he did to the Potters, not Snape, and I thought it would have been a neat twist to have had him been the one in love with Lily. I still don't doubt the possibility. He was close friends with her for years and it would have given him an entirely different motive for handing over the Potters (more horrible a motive, but still - I think the depth would have been neat). He could just have easily asked Voldemort to spare her life because he was the only one who had something Voldemort desperately wanted - Harry's whereabouts. He had something to bargain with.

Alas, DH came and went and Peter was given no depth. I still think it's an interesting theory though.

SusanBones April 6th, 2008 2:17 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliciousMoon (Post 4981570)
I find it hard to believe that Peter never regretted or felt bad for what he did to Lily and James. He was a coward, not necessarily a heartless killer, though his cowardly actions did lead to the deaths of his friends. I think he knew what he was doing was bad and he did have his morals in check, but he was a coward and was too scared to do the right thing. I think he did feel miserable after James and Lily's deaths.

I'm glad you brought this discussion over to the Peter Petergrew thread. I agree with you. I think Peter did feel regret for betraying James and Lily. Most of the scenes of Peter and Voldemort in GoF, especially when Voldemort was the ugly baby body we call Babymort, gave me the impression that Peter truly hated the role he was playing. He was nothing more than a nursemaid and a slave at that point.

I think the one time that Peter tried to make up for some of his wrongs was when he tried to talk Voldemort out of using Harry's blood to rebuild his body. I think he regretted a lot of things.

remorse1. The anguish, like gnawing pain, excited by a sense of guilt; compunction of conscience for a crime committed, or for the sins of one's past life. "Nero will be tainted with remorse." --Shak.

usageUsage: Regret, Remorse, Compunction, Contrition, Repentance. Regret does not carry with it the energy of remorse, the sting of compunction, the sacredness of contrition, or the practical character of repentance. We even apply the term regret to circumstance over which we have had no control, as the absence of friends or their loss. When connected with ourselves, it relates rather to unwise acts than to wrong or sinful ones. --C. J. Smith.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

He may have regretted his actions, maybe even had remorse for them, but he sure didn't try to redeem himself by defying Voldemort or saving any of the good guys. Helping Harry and Ron to escape the cellar would have been an attempt to redeem himself, in my opinion. I was rather disappointed that Peter only had a little flinch to show a moment's hesitation rather than a real attempt to save Harry. He needed Harry to remind him that he owed him his life to even have that little bit of regret.

Pearl_Took April 6th, 2008 2:44 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliciousMoon (Post 4981570)
I find it hard to believe that Peter never regretted or felt bad for what he did to Lily and James. He was a coward, not necessarily a heartless killer, though his cowardly actions did lead to the deaths of his friends. I think he knew what he was doing was bad and he did have his morals in check, but he was a coward and was too scared to do the right thing. I think he did feel miserable after James and Lily's deaths.

He might well have done so, but nothing in the story indicates that. Not that I'm ruling it out as a possibility. :)

And Peter goes BACK to Voldemort, after escaping in PoA, what's more. :shrug: That to me undermines the whole reason given for his betrayal, that it was just cowardice. He's a very calculating coward, to be sure ... he's pretty clever at how he frames Sirius for the murders of James and Lily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliciousMoon (Post 4981591)
I don't think he went "bad" either, but his cowardice certainly brought his character down. I thought he was the one who was going to be redeemed in a sense for what he did to the Potters, not Snape, and I thought it would have been a neat twist to have had him been the one in love with Lily. I still don't doubt the possibility. He was close friends with her for years and it would have given him an entirely different motive for handing over the Potters (more horrible a motive, but still - I think the depth would have been neat). He could just have easily asked Voldemort to spare her life because he was the only one who had something Voldemort desperately wanted - Harry's whereabouts. He had something to bargain with.

Alas, DH came and went and Peter was given no depth. I still think it's an interesting theory though.

I do think Peter went bad, actually. Although there's no canon to back me up on that. ;) But, really ... to do what he did, to betray his own best friend, his wife and their innocent baby ... that just doesn't come out of left field, from nowhere!

This is why I love your idea of Peter having secretly loved Lily and perhaps been insanely jealous of James. That to me would have made for a far more riveting reason -- a much more horrible one, as you say, but quite believable, IMO (if I can't have her, I'll make sure James can't either) -- than what we are given in canon.

I agree with the lack of depth given to Peter in DH and indeed throughout the series. I thought the manner of his death was really cool :evil: ... but oddly enough, Harry doesn't really seem to feel much emotion about it, even though this is the guy who betrayed his parents to their deaths!

It's a great storyline :) but I can't help wishing that something more had been done with Peter's character.

arithmancer April 6th, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pearl_Took (Post 4982041)
But, really ... to do what he did, to betray his own best friend, his wife and their innocent baby ... that just doesn't come out of left field, from nowhere!

This is why I love your idea of Peter having secretly loved Lily and perhaps been insanely jealous of James. That to me would have made for a far more riveting reason -- a much more horrible one, as you say, but quite believable, IMO (if I can't have her, I'll make sure James can't either) -- than what we are given in canon.

I see too little evidence to subscribe to this theory (um, none, actually). My own way of getting my head around this, is to attack the premise of your first sentence. Yes, James might have listed Peter as one of his best friends (though I do believe Sirius was alone in that role, with others just being other very good friends) but I do not believe this is how Peter understood and experienced his relationship to James.

I think Sirius's post-betrayal characterization was closer to the mark - Peter was seeking out the biggest, toughest guy on the playground to be protected. He would have seen his involvement with James as an unspoken bargain of sorts - he is James's little sycophant, and puts up with whatever petty abuse James's group may choose to heap on him, and in exchange, Peter is allowed to be a member of the group, thereby discouraging others from touching him, and allowing him to share vicariously in the group's triumphs. The whole SWM scene is my idea in microcosm. Peter is there with the other Marauders, an accepted part of the whole. He sucks up to James, he is the butt of James's (more friendly) joke and Sirius's (nastier, but still only verbal) one, and he stands by, obviously entertained by the proceedings from a safe distance, when Sirius and James go after Severus.

Peter's switch to Voldemort makes sense in this light - the group James throws his lot in with after school, is conspicuously lacking in triumphs, and far from granting Peter some immunity the way being a friend of James would have at school, paints a target on his back. So basically, James is no longer serving the function he did before for Peter. Voldemort fills the bill a lot better, so when Peter is approached, it is not, in my view, so odd that he accepts.

Everyone loves the line Sirius throws in Peter's face in PoA, that Peter should have died for his friends, the way his friends would have died for him. I don't think Peter wanted his friends to die for him, and I don't think he believed they would have done so for him, when he made his choice.

Did he regret that choice? Sure, he probably did. But then the choice worked out rather badly for him. Far from what he probably expected to be a fairly secure position in the Death Eater organization, his betrayal resulted in Voldemort's disappearance, forcing Peter to fall back on his own resources to stay alive and out of Azkaban, not at all what he hoped. And his resurrection of Voldemort also did not work out all that well, as Voldemort's favor fell on the Azkaban group and Snape, who could do more for him in the present.

In other words, I see the regret as based primarily in practical considerations, that he'd hitched his wagon to the wrong star. (He ought to have gone into the Ministry...where he could have kept his nose down in the year of Voldemort, and then pleaded 'just following orders'. :lol: )

I so think that Peter's school years were probably, in retrospect, the safest and happiest of his life, so he would remember James fondly for that if nothing else. I think that's precisely enough to explain the twitch, which I saw as a moment's hesitation, not any sort of sustainable change of heart that would have led him to help Harry get out of Malfoy Manor in defiance of Voldemort's wishes.

And Pearl_Took, call me dark, but I adored the manner of Peter's death too, it is a favorite creepy moment of DH. :D

Pearl_Took April 6th, 2008 3:45 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zgirnius (Post 4982085)
I see too little evidence to subscribe to this theory (um, none, actually).

Oh, I don't think there's any evidence at all for it! :whistle:

I just like it. :D

That was a very good post, Zara ... it has helped me make sense of the canon. :agree:

Quote:

I think Sirius's post-betrayal characterization was closer to the mark - Peter was seeking out the biggest, toughest guy on the playground to be protected. He would have seen his involvement with James as an unspoken bargain of sorts - he is James's little sycophant, and puts up with whatever petty abuse James's group may choose to heap on him, and in exchange, Peter is allowed to be a member of the group, thereby discouraging others from touching him, and allowing him to share vicariously in the group's triumphs. The whole SWM scene is my idea in microcosm. Peter is there with the other Marauders, an accepted part of the whole. He sucks up to James, he is the butt of James's (more friendly) joke and Sirius's (nastier, but still only verbal) one, and he stands by, obviously entertained by the proceedings from a safe distance, when Sirius and James go after Severus.
I've always taken Sirius's savage words to Peter in the Shack at face value ... and we see the truth of what Sirius said, right there in the SWM incident. That portrayal of Peter there tells us everything we need to know about his character ... as JKR obviously intended.

Quote:

Peter's switch to Voldemort makes sense in this light - the group James throws his lot in with after school, is conspicuously lacking in triumphs, and far from granting Peter some immunity the way being a friend of James would have at school, paints a target on his back. So basically, James is no longer serving the function he did before for Peter. Voldemort fills the bill a lot better, so when Peter is approached, it is not, in my view, so odd that he accepts.
Eeep, it gives me chills! But ... yep ... I agree.

Quote:

(He ought to have gone into the Ministry...where he could have kept his nose down in the year of Voldemort, and then pleaded 'just following orders'. :lol: )
I can totally see Peter doing that.

Quote:

And Pearl_Took, call me dark, but I adored the manner of Peter's death too, it is a favorite creepy moment of DH. :D
I thought it was awesome! :whistle: So I am just as dark as you. :D


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 4:58 pm.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.