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-   -   Gilmore Girls v.2 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=102405)

jordmundt6 November 24th, 2007 8:36 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
We have discovered that, in large part, The Richard/Emily stamp of approval is usually a sure sign that someone is totally unworthy. If Logan had taken a few months to step back and consider what Rory's refusal meant, perhaps he might have continued to grow into a worthy consort and life partner for her, but both nature and nurture were against him in that regard--as we've discussed earlier, at length.

Frankly, I can't stand behind the truth of your assertion that Chris truly loves Lorelai because I don't know that Chris has any notion what true marital love is (I know he loves Rory and Gigi, as a well-meaning if ill-equipt fahter, but marital love is a totally different proposition). Most unfortunately, he never got past being the 16-year-old rebel, though with only Strobe's abysmal example to follow, he can, perhaps, be forgiven for taking the Peter Pan route. The love/affection/what-have-you that Chris feels for Lorelai is too tied to his past for him to use it as a force to grow up into the kind of man that Lorelai needs--the best that can be said of him is that, petulant and shallow as he may be when under pressure, he was able to recognize the difference between his shared feelings for Lorelai and the mysterious soulmate connection that Luke and Lorelai share. In other words, in the end, he was able to accept Lorelai's revelation that he was "the one [she] want[ed] to want" but not the one she loved with some grace.

As for Richard and Emily learning to perceive greater depth in Logan Huntsberger than his family name...well, if they still can't do it for their own daughter after all this time, it might be asking a bit much of them to see the larger picture where Logan is concerned.

Fleur du mal November 25th, 2007 11:04 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jordmundt6 (Post 4850303)
Frankly, I can't stand behind the truth of your assertion that Chris truly loves Lorelai because I don't know that Chris has any notion what true marital love is (I know he loves Rory and Gigi, as a well-meaning if ill-equipt fahter, but marital love is a totally different proposition). Most unfortunately, he never got past being the 16-year-old rebel, though with only Strobe's abysmal example to follow, he can, perhaps, be forgiven for taking the Peter Pan route. The love/affection/what-have-you that Chris feels for Lorelai is too tied to his past for him to use it as a force to grow up into the kind of man that Lorelai needs--the best that can be said of him is that, petulant and shallow as he may be when under pressure, he was able to recognize the difference between his shared feelings for Lorelai and the mysterious soulmate connection that Luke and Lorelai share. In other words, in the end, he was able to accept Lorelai's revelation that he was "the one [she] want[ed] to want" but not the one she loved with some grace.

I might have expressed myself unfavourably there. I absolutely agree. Chris doesn't meet my standards of love between two grown-up people, either. I was trying to say that for his standards though, he loves her as much as he possibly can. There's not 'more' than what he feels for Lorelai.


Quote:

As for Richard and Emily learning to perceive greater depth in Logan Huntsberger than his family name...well, if they still can't do it for their own daughter after all this time, it might be asking a bit much of them to see the larger picture where Logan is concerned.
No, that's not what I meant. Not an act of good will. An act of actual understanding, not motivated by love or anything, but scales falling off their eyes for the sake of it. Richard was on a bit of a good way there after his heart attack.

jordmundt6 November 26th, 2007 10:02 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
I understood what you meant, and the paradox that Emily & Richard are so blind is what drives their relationship with their daughter, so a "scales falling from the eyes" moment is truly impossible without completely reshaping their characters.

As for Chris--you're right, and that's really too bad. He thinks he's given all of himself to that relationship, and the fact that he hasn't, and has no concept of what else might be out there means that, unless he and Gigi "grow up together," he will be just as alone, and just as baffled at sixty or seventy as he is at forty.

Fleur du mal November 26th, 2007 10:53 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jordmundt6 (Post 4852184)
I understood what you meant, and the paradox that Emily & Richard are so blind is what drives their relationship with their daughter, so a "scales falling from the eyes" moment is truly impossible without completely reshaping their characters.

Oh, I totally agree. I just thought it'd have been a nice kind of closure for the show as such. Let's say Logan had fully turned away from his parents, and had accepted a lowly-paid job (and without some honourable or reputation-wise effective aspect to make up. For example: work as the bus driver of that bus that Rory is travelling around with for the next year) only for wishing to be close to Rory - and Emily would be appalled and suddenly think 'THIS certainly ISN'T the young man we wanted for our granddaughter!!!!' - when in fact, for Rory, and Lorelai, and the audience, it would have shown exactly how much Logan had grown up. I would have liked to have seen Emily confronted with her own shallow perception - I don't think that would have turned her relationship to Lorelai upside-down; it would actually have confirmed the gap between their lives - and still, the finale could have included 'See you next Friday, then - ' and Emily hissing, 'Just don't wear Jeans, will you!'

Moriath November 27th, 2007 7:35 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleur du mal (Post 4852258)
Oh, I totally agree. I just thought it'd have been a nice kind of closure for the show as such. Let's say Logan had fully turned away from his parents, and had accepted a lowly-paid job (and without some honourable or reputation-wise effective aspect to make up. For example: work as the bus driver of that bus that Rory is travelling around with for the next year) only for wishing to be close to Rory - and Emily would be appalled and suddenly think 'THIS certainly ISN'T the young man we wanted for our granddaughter!!!!' - when in fact, for Rory, and Lorelai, and the audience, it would have shown exactly how much Logan had grown up. I would have liked to have seen Emily confronted with her own shallow perception - I don't think that would have turned her relationship to Lorelai upside-down; it would actually have confirmed the gap between their lives - and still, the finale could have included 'See you next Friday, then - ' and Emily hissing, 'Just don't wear Jeans, will you!'

He didn't go all the way but he left the Huntzberger empire and tried to stand on his own two feet. He defended Rory against them and always stood by her. I liked Logan and I don't see anything of Chris in him - a fact that jordmundt6 and I will always disagree on. :lol: I found his persistent marriage proposal, which he made in public, completely out of character. Logan is the master of gestures and he knew Rory pretty well by then. He knew about her lists and about how hard she thinks about and prepares for everything. And then he goes and wants an answer to such an important question as quickly as possible? That's not the Logan we know. :no: The whole season finale felt rushed and far-fetched.

Fleur du mal November 27th, 2007 8:38 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
That IS indeeed the problem. In-character Logan would have known the right gesture (or in this case: an omission), but It's-the-end-of-the-last-season-OMG-scriptwriters-DO-SOMETHING Logan must mess it up, and in this respect, I preferred this solution much to other possibilities, like Logan cheating on Rory in a drunken tour, Logan returning to Mitchell's bosom and Rory disapproving for whatever reason etc. He failed for trying too hard.

jordmundt6 November 27th, 2007 7:26 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
I go back and forth on Logan. There are times that I think he was steadily improving, and there are times that I think he's Chris Hayden-Lite with a truly good moments sprinkled in. With six months of distance--I think he was improving, but the style of his proposal, (the "event") coupled with his ultimatum (all or nothing, right now) makes me think of Chris. I have always believed that an engagement (and subsequent marriage) should be between two people who realize that they love one another--that they cannot live without one another (not freaky, unstable codependency, but thinking about their bond and relationship and realizing that the burden and loss of living without one another is greater than whatever dangers and trials they would face together). I've fumbled that, I know, but I tried.

sllagnire November 30th, 2007 4:44 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
I really liked Logan and was sad to see that he and Rory had to break it off. I agree that the proposal was really out of character for him. He knew that Rory was not the type of girl that woudl want an out-of-the-blue proposal. She would want to talk about it and plan and make sure that it really was right for them. I also don't think that it was fair of him to ask her to move out to California like that. It really was a rushed ending to the show. It makes me sad. It has always been one of my favorite shows, and the end of hte last season diappointed me.

witchygurl December 7th, 2007 4:23 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
this is so wierd for me i have only watched snippets of each season...but now i am watching the reruns on abc family and i think they are only on season one (mr. madina just proposed with the dasies), and i watched later season reruns over the summer that stopped when i started sports. and i keep missing episodes because im not always alowed to watch...however, i do have the dvds but it's so much more fun to watch it on tv.

jordmundt6 December 7th, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Why? Do you enjoy commercials? DVDs can be quite entertaining and provide concentrated fixes of favorite programs.

witchygurl December 7th, 2007 7:49 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
i dont enjoy watching the commercials but i like having the breaks to go get snacks and stuff, and i like to watch it on my tv instead of my computer, because i know that it will get lost near my tv. also, it is just a tradition thing, my daily five pm treat :)

Liselle December 7th, 2007 8:35 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sllagnire (Post 4855496)
I really liked Logan and was sad to see that he and Rory had to break it off. I agree that the proposal was really out of character for him. He knew that Rory was not the type of girl that woudl want an out-of-the-blue proposal. She would want to talk about it and plan and make sure that it really was right for them. I also don't think that it was fair of him to ask her to move out to California like that. It really was a rushed ending to the show. It makes me sad. It has always been one of my favorite shows, and the end of hte last season diappointed me.

I hate when things like that happen, I understand that all characters or at least some of them need to do things that are out of character occasionally but when done badly it can ruin things :no:

I did like Logan but now I'm not so sure to be honest. Rory is great though, I know she's not everyone's cup of tea but as I character I really like her plus Alex Beidel (spelling??) who plays her is a decent actress.

witchygurl December 9th, 2007 5:19 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
i love alexis blendel! she was also really good in 'the sisterhood of the traveling pants'. she is so beautiful without being intimidating,and same with the woman who plays lorelai. i think all the cast did a good job of really getting into their roles, they really make it seem real, and not just a bunch of actors.

jordmundt6 December 10th, 2007 5:39 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Liselle and sllagnire--y'know out-of-character moments offer opportunity for growth, but when poorly executed, they CAN ruin a show or a book. It's just that we disagree fundamentally about what's in character for Logan. While I found his proposal jarring and disheartening, it seemed almost perfectly of a piece with his general character, even with his attempts at growth. However, that's because I see him as a Henry Crawford, or, at best, a Frank Churchill, not a Mr. Knightley. When flustered, I tend to lean on Austen comparisons.

Fleur du mal December 10th, 2007 8:34 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jordmundt6 (Post 4863833)
However, that's because I see him as a Henry Crawford, or, at best, a Frank Churchill, not a Mr. Knightley. When flustered, I tend to lean on Austen comparisons.

:clap: jordmundt - what can I say! Fantastic comparison!

witchygurl December 10th, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
im so excited for when i have freee time and can watch those dvd's

jasper January 2nd, 2008 3:29 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
I just watched season 7 DVD's in the space of about 24 hours. I have a headache now! :lol:
I didn't watch all of it on TV, so I wasn't sure what happened at the end of everything. But now I know how it turned out.

I'm thinking the exit of Logan was really improbable and a weird mirror of the end of Luke and Lorelai in season 6.

Moriath January 2nd, 2008 7:41 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jasper (Post 4886763)
I'm thinking the exit of Logan was really improbable and a weird mirror of the end of Luke and Lorelai in season 6.

Which was just as improbable. :agree: I hate it when they separate pairings that are clearly meant for each other just to keep up the suspense. Luke and Lorelai worked for me until they broke up. I have no idea what Luke was thinking. OK, he discovered that he had a daughter but he wasn't exactly new to the raising-kids-business. He has been more of a father to Rory than Chris. And we all know how I feel about Logan and Rory...

Fleur du mal January 2nd, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriath (Post 4886943)
I hate it when they separate pairings that are clearly meant for each other just to keep up the suspense.

Thank you for saying this, Mo! :tu: It relieves me to think I'm not the only one. I could cope with them being at odds - but the thing with Christopher really killed me. No jesting. I cannot possibly explain why the story of two fictional characters affects me so deeply, but seeing Lorelai with Christopher made me physically sick, as if I was the heartbroken one.

I could understand the turn of the story with April - Luke wanting to become as 'proper' a father as Lorelai had grown to be Rory's perfect mum, to be at 'eye-level' with her in that vital department. I could understand his reserve, I could understand her hurt - but it's still absolutely beyond me why she ran to Christopher in that situation. I wanted to grab her and shake her and shout at her - I'm pushing thirty, but my reaction to this was pre-pubescent at its worst. I actually had to watch the last episode of season 7 first, only to see if I could bear watching it completely. I wouldn't have managed if I had seen that Lorelai was happily united with Christopher in the end. :no:

jasper January 2nd, 2008 12:33 pm

Re: Gilmore Girls v.2
 
So, they gave Logan the push because they were still contemplating a little season 8 at that point, or what?


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