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lady_quintala April 28th, 2007 4:54 am

What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place?
 
Hello,
This will be my second thread I have ever started, so please bare with me.

I was re-reading my copy of OOTP today, and a question came up. What was Umbridge's beef with Harry in the first place?? I don't recall Harry ever having contact with Umbridge ever in any of the other books. He never had anything against her at all. She hated Harry from the beginning, she even sent the Dementors after him in the first place. I know she said the Harry had to be taken care of, silenced, discredited, but she never fully explained why she hated Harry. Someone please shed some light on this for me.

SKasparRollins April 28th, 2007 4:58 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Because Umbridge was the Ministry's #1 goon?

Hinoema April 28th, 2007 5:06 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Excellent question, and a good thread. :)

Umbridge was sent to Hogwarts for a reason. The Ministry didn't like the fact that Dumbledore was educating the students about the reality of Voldemort's return- they wanted to keep the idea under wraps. Therefore, they had to both remove Dumbledore and silence Harry.

Her entire goal was, I believe, to intimidate Harry into silence so he would not cause disgareement with the Ministry approved take on events.

royalcrowncola9 April 28th, 2007 5:11 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
I agree with Hinoema, Umbridge was sent to make sure everyone in Hogwarts thought Dumbledore and Harry were nut-jobs

elfears91 April 28th, 2007 5:11 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Because she like Fudge and the rest of the ministry refused to believe Voldemort returned and she comes off at refusing to be contradicted or corrected in anyway. If Harry got people to believe him then people would start to doubt the ministry and she couldn't have that.

witchygurl April 28th, 2007 5:47 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
I have actually wondered this too, why she felt the need to send the dementors after him. I think that she was brainwashed by Fudge, and she wanted power so she wanted to agree with him and believe what he believed, that harry was a delusional lier who was showing off just for the sake of it. I think this got so deeply implanted in Umbrdge's brain, that she felt the need to send off dementors to frame him.

i also think she wanted to prove herself worthy of the ministry, of the job she had. she said herself that she felt she needed to do something because no one else was, so she, who was the great, smart one, took action, while the actual minister couldn't because it would be more likely to leak out and for him to get caught. So she did what she accuased harry of doing, showing off. Even if it was only to herself (because the minister couldn't find out) she knew her abilities.

So I think that it is the combination of Umbridge being brainwashed, proving herself, and just the fact that she was evil and maybe was taking out some anger on harry.

Wright1771 April 28th, 2007 10:34 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
To discredit Harry!

Eliya April 28th, 2007 11:09 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinoema (Post 4482572)
Excellent question, and a good thread. :)

Umbridge was sent to Hogwarts for a reason. The Ministry didn't like the fact that Dumbledore was educating the students about the reality of Voldemort's return- they wanted to keep the idea under wraps. Therefore, they had to both remove Dumbledore and silence Harry.

Her entire goal was, I believe, to intimidate Harry into silence so he would not cause disgareement with the Ministry approved take on events.

Yes, indeed. She could be agaist any person who was inconvenient for Fudge/Ministry. She seemed to be truelly devoted for him.

laxstar333 April 28th, 2007 11:17 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
she could be a secret death eater, and since voldemort has control of the dementors thats how she sent them to Harry!

PotionA April 28th, 2007 11:23 am

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinoema
Excellent question, and a good thread. :)

Umbridge was sent to Hogwarts for a reason. The Ministry didn't like the fact that Dumbledore was educating the students about the reality of Voldemort's return- they wanted to keep the idea under wraps. Therefore, they had to both remove Dumbledore and silence Harry.

Her entire goal was, I believe, to intimidate Harry into silence so he would not cause disgareement with the Ministry approved take on events.

Yup I agree. Umbridge didn't need to have prior interaction with Harry to discredit him because she is a power hungry official who had gone to great lengths to further the Ministry's cause. Her rule at Hogwarts was to shove aside anyone and everyone who opposed, that is Harry, Dumbledore and their followers, and to establish herself in a position of irreplacable power.

SusanBones April 28th, 2007 1:12 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lady_quintala (Post 4482559)
What was Umbridge's beef with Harry in the first place?? I don't recall Harry ever having contact with Umbridge ever in any of the other books. He never had anything against her at all. She hated Harry from the beginning, she even sent the Dementors after him in the first place. I know she said the Harry had to be taken care of, silenced, discredited, but she never fully explained why she hated Harry.

This is a really good question. It was very evil, in my opinion, to send dementors to Privet Drive. Harry could have had his soul sucked out. He was able to produce a patronus to send them off, but what would have happened if he couldn't have done it?

Do you think Umbridge counted on having a member of the Order on duty to protect Harry from the dementors? It just so happened that Mundungus was off getting a great deal on cauldron bottoms. Was that a deliberate ruse to get him off duty, or was it a coincidence?

Refinnej7 April 28th, 2007 1:26 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
I think she just took her job a little too seriously in discrediting Harry. She says something to the effect of: "Everyone was talking about doing something, but I actually did something [with the dementors]!" And yes, I think she was trying to prove herself worthy of being senior undersecretary.

I liken her to Percy somewhat; they both want to do their jobs exceptionally, they just get the message mixed up and go overboard.

Deevo April 28th, 2007 2:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinoema (Post 4482572)
Excellent question, and a good thread. :)

Umbridge was sent to Hogwarts for a reason. The Ministry didn't like the fact that Dumbledore was educating the students about the reality of Voldemort's return- they wanted to keep the idea under wraps. Therefore, they had to both remove Dumbledore and silence Harry.

Her entire goal was, I believe, to intimidate Harry into silence so he would not cause disgareement with the Ministry approved take on events.

That was a part of it to be sure but her actions, right from the start, seemed to go well beyond what even a desperate politician like Fudge would have considered. Prior to the hearing it wasn't common knowledge that Harry could produce a full patronus, in fact the only ones who knew beyond the trio were Dumbledore, Sirius and Remus. Presumably Dumbledore may have shared this with other order members such as Moody, Kingsley and such but there's no way Umbridge would have known when she sent them that Harry was being guarded or that he would be capable of driving them off himself. In that respect her actions border on murderous intent.

I suspect that she was already somewhat imbalanced right off the bat and by the time she'd been appointed head she was what could be described clinically as a right raving nut job. She was obviously of somewhat mediocre capability judging by the way she didn't handle the twins escapades, Hagrid or the centaurs but by that point in the story she was so self deluded that she believed she was near invincible.

Her desire was control and Harry (and Dumbledore) were beyond her control right from the start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PotionA (Post 4482901)
Yup I agree. Umbridge didn't need to have prior interaction with Harry to discredit him because she is a power hungry official who had gone to great lengths to further the Ministry's cause. Her rule at Hogwarts was to shove aside anyone and everyone who opposed, that is Harry, Dumbledore and their followers, and to establish herself in a position of irreplacable power.

Like I said she went way beyond a meer power hungry government official, had the truth been more broadly known of how Harry's (and Lee Jordan's) detentions were conducted, not to mention her apparent willingness to use an illegal potion and curse on a minor to whom she was in 'loco parentis' of I would think she'd have been arrested, even given the political situation of the time she'd have been at least removed from her position.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refinnej7 (Post 4482991)
I think she just took her job a littletoo seriously in discrediting Harry. She says something to the effect of: "Everyone was talking about doing something, but I actually did something [with the dementors]!" And yes, I think she was trying to prove herself worthy of being senior undersecretary.

I liken her to Percy somewhat; they both want to do their jobs exceptionally, they just get the message mixed up and go overboard.

I'm hoping Percy won't end up as psychotic as that ... ahem ... person (I'd very much like to insert a word that would be censored here) because in some ways people like her are more dangerous than the likes of Voldemort. With him at least you know who the enemy is.

Thud April 28th, 2007 2:37 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
It is my belief that the Umbridge character is a literary tool for the Harry character to learn a basic truth that all childeren learn at one point or another: Adults lie. From the moment of her introduction she's given the aura of an antagonist, and she has very little in the way of redeeming human features for the reader to associate with. Rather, she is treated in an almost cartoonish way, a parody if you will of the authority figure that all childeren face as they come into their own, and rebel against.

And personally, I don't think we've seen the last of her. Her presence at the end of HBP did not in any way enhance the storyline, and could have in fact been left completely out, however JKR elected to have her there at the funeral. To me, that foreshadows further involvement in the storyline, most likely as a supplimentary antagonist (Like Harry doesn't have enough problems, right?).

xhanax315 April 28th, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinoema (Post 4482572)
Excellent question, and a good thread. :)

Umbridge was sent to Hogwarts for a reason. The Ministry didn't like the fact that Dumbledore was educating the students about the reality of Voldemort's return- they wanted to keep the idea under wraps. Therefore, they had to both remove Dumbledore and silence Harry.

Her entire goal was, I believe, to intimidate Harry into silence so he would not cause disgareement with the Ministry approved take on events.


I agree. She probably had no liking for him because he sided with Dumbledore, and had believed that Voldemort had risen, and was going against the Ministry to alert the Wizarding World.

rigdoctorbri April 28th, 2007 3:59 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Dolores Umbridge is a Ministry of Magic loyalist finatic. She rose the ladder by being a "yes woman", blindly accepting the opinions of her superiors, and kissing their collective butts. If anyone had dirt on her nose, it was her. She accepted the position that Dumbledore was a fool, and Harry was a troublemaker because her boss, Cornelius Fudge said so. That was good enough for her.

Shewoman April 28th, 2007 4:11 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
I don't think she was brainwashed. I think she's ambitious and wants to rise in the Ministry and so was willing to do whatever would accomplish that. Think of her as the Ministry's Bellatrix (without the icky love Bella seems to have for Voldemort). In the 1960s an American politician, Barry Goldwater, said "Extremism in the pursuit of virtue is no vice"--in other words, the ends justify the means. When that's your philosophy, anything you think brings you closer to the "virtue" you think you're pursuing is justifiable--lies, demonizing individuals or groups, dementors, slavery, internment camps, extermination camps, ethnic cleansing, whatever.

rigdoctorbri April 28th, 2007 4:13 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shewoman (Post 4483175)
I don't think she was brainwashed. I think she's ambitious and wants to rise in the Ministry and so was willing to do whatever would accomplish that. Think of her as the Ministry's Bellatrix (without the icky love Bella seems to have for Voldemort). In the 1960s an American politician, Barry Goldwater, said "Extremism in the pursuit of virtue is no vice"--in other words, the ends justify the means. When that's your philosophy, anything you think brings you closer to the "virtue" you think you're pursuing is justifiable--lies, demonizing individuals or groups, dementors, slavery, internment camps, extermination camps, ethnic cleansing, whatever.

Sounds ominously like religious zealotry.

PotionA April 28th, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deevo
Like I said she went way beyond a meer power hungry government official, had the truth been more broadly known of how Harry's (and Lee Jordan's) detentions were conducted, not to mention her apparent willingness to use an illegal potion and curse on a minor to whom she was in 'loco parentis' of I would think she'd have been arrested, even given the political situation of the time she'd have been at least removed from her position.

True. I wonder whether the Ministry or anybody else had found out that Umbridge had resorted to such vile tactics to implement her cause. I was sure that she would be sacked or at least brought to justice for her villainy but alas, she had managed to stick around.

phrodo April 28th, 2007 8:22 pm

Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???
 
I think she works for, or is being controlled by Voldemort (separate from the death eaters), and that her torture pen is a Horcrux. She is probably behind the murder of Amelia Bones as well. I am curious about her anti-werewolf legislation, and whether or not this is a factor in the werewolves siding with Voldemort.


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