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wizkid6 February 18th, 2005 4:22 am

Have any Slytherins ever been trustworthy?
 
I was wondering...Do you think there have ever been any trustworthy Slytherins (excluding Snape who I'm not sure about yet)? I can't imagine that one-fourth of the British wizarding world is sympathetic to Voldemort. It seems there has to be some trustworthy, anti-Voldemort Slytherins.

What do you think about this?

Rosie Cotton February 18th, 2005 4:25 am

I personally think Blaise Zabini's going to be. :D

Who knows? I bet that there has been some. For all we know, Andromeda Black could have been a Slytherin, I'm pretty sure it's just a stereotype. There are some nice Slytherins. I say this, even though I'm a Hufflepuff. :)

PotionsMaster February 18th, 2005 4:49 am

I don't think all Slytherins are Voldemort supporters. It's not exactly a requirement to get into Slytherin. From the description of the houses, it actually sounds like Slytherin really wouldn't be all that bad a house to get into, it just so happens that there are people like Malfoy that give them their stero-typical image. It says that people in Slytherin are very determined and usually reach their goal when their mind is set on it, usually be any means necessary. I think it's this trait that usually associates Slytherins with Voldemort because it's the one that take the "bad" routes that make them turn to the dark side, but I never really thought of it as a bad thing to be determined. I'm sure there are plently of anti-Voldemort Slytherins, but do we, as readers, really want to read about them? It's not very exciting for Harry to have Slytherins on his side, so it just adds to the confrontation in the books if only the Slytherins on the same side as Voldemort are mentioned. If there really are thousands of students at Hogwarts (as JKR says, but a lot of us are still trying to figure out how that works!), then we have hardly seen any of the Slytherins. I actually found it a little dissapointing that the people Harry named as being in the cemetery were the fathers of all the Slytherins we've seen, there really weren't too many others, I thought that was a little too predictable. I'm sure there are other Slytherins fighting on the side of good, but, as I said, they aren't really the ones that add to the books.

mattbufford February 18th, 2005 4:49 am

I think there are definitely some trustworthy Slytherins. You have to admit, though, that it makes for a more interesting story when JKR shows them in a negative light. Also, you have to realize that Slytherins will do what it takes to achieve their personal goals. Slytherins are realists. We don't expect any one else to take care of us, and we understand that If you don't fend for yourself, you'll get screwed. Taking this into consideration, you can see that it is a lack of faith and trust in others that bolsters our self-reliance. This is often misconstrued as selfish or even cruel, but there is a certain morality in this. As I said before, your own self SHOULD be the most important thing to you. This doesn't mean that someone with these beliefs would never help anyone, because that is not true. Slytherins aren't cold-hearted or incapable or caring for another person. On the contrary, when we care for someone so much, their interests become tied into our own. That is, I believe, how the pureblood families have remained so close-knitted. Slytherins don't let many people past their outer shell, but when we really care for someone, like a family member, we don't want to see them go away, so it is important to keep them close.

tarachristwen February 18th, 2005 5:01 am

not all slytherins are bound to be dark wizards,right?

although they're in the house where most of the dark wizards were in that house when they were in hogwarts,it doesn't mean that all of them are bad people..it's very unfair to say that..

Slewpi February 18th, 2005 5:04 am

There surely must be some good ones, not all the baddies were Slytherins after all. I'm betting its a ver small amount though.

Vita February 18th, 2005 5:05 am

Well I'd like to think that Severus Snape is trustworthy and I dunno if its about trust. Im sure alot of them are trustworthy- its all about the cause

CajunFry February 18th, 2005 7:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattbufford
I think there are definitely some trustworthy Slytherins. You have to admit, though, that it makes for a more interesting story when JKR shows them in a negative light. Also, you have to realize that Slytherins will do what it takes to achieve their personal goals. Slytherins are realists. We don't expect any one else to take care of us, and we understand that If you don't fend for yourself, you'll get screwed. Taking this into consideration, you can see that it is a lack of faith and trust in others that bolsters our self-reliance. This is often misconstrued as selfish or even cruel, but there is a certain morality in this. As I said before, your own self SHOULD be the most important thing to you. This doesn't mean that someone with these beliefs would never help anyone, because that is not true. Slytherins aren't cold-hearted or incapable or caring for another person. On the contrary, when we care for someone so much, their interests become tied into our own. That is, I believe, how the pureblood families have remained so close-knitted. Slytherins don't let many people past their outer shell, but when we really care for someone, like a family member, we don't want to see them go away, so it is important to keep them close.

My fellow Slytherin! A pleasure it is to see you speak up on this subject. :cool: You are absolutely correct. True, us Slytherins tend to be very ambitious individuals and we will normally do whatever it takes to achieve our goals. However, it is definitely NOT true that we will resort to evil measures to get what we want. A good handful of us are that way and the only reason that there is a large following behind such people is because of peer pressure and influence of some degree. They follow because they can and maybe because they feel afraid for their own safety if they don't. In this case, they would fear Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Then again, you can also counter this very question with, How come there aren't any BAD Gryffindors, Ravenclaws or Hufflepuffs? Who said that ALL of them were good, loyal, well-intentioned wizards. That can not true. The majority of say, the Hufflepuffs, are kind and tend to avoid violence of any kind, yet there HAS to be a few wizards that are not, well, puffs.

In Gryffindor, for example, look at what happened to Percy Weasley. Brave and courageous the Gryffindors are, but ambitious and arrogant he is. Sounds more like a Slytherin than anything else. Then again, he could be under Imperius working as a spy for Voldemort or something, but that's just speculation. But, though I am reiterating what mattbufford said, there is always going to be those who aren't exactly what they seem. Since we are talking about Slytherin here, I'll be more specific. Draco Malfoy is a spineless twit and loves nothing more than hurting "inferiors" and possessing power. All Slytherins are sympathetic to having power, because I believe it's more prominent in us than it is in other houses. However, the majority of Slytherin isn't willing to go to such lengths as being a Death Eater to attain that power. There are other, less sadistic ways to get it. :evil:

Being in Slytherin should NEVER constitute an automatic portrayal of EVIL or TREACHERY. Many, like myself, have our own goals that have nothing at all to do with killing Muggles or Mud-Bloods or viciously stepping on others to get where we want. I will lay money that there are those in Slytherin who wish for nothing other than to make it big in the world in some way or another. Folks like the Malfoys have a twisted perception of what they deem is RIGHT and JUSTIFIABLE. I would guess that most Slytherins have a strong distaste for that kind of behavior because of how juvenile it ends up being in most cases. Sure, we can sympathize with them on a very minor level, but they go WAY too far. Besides, when it comes to those of our own house getting in a jam or failing in some area, we are just as prone to help out as any other house, but we usually do it only because it's the right thing to do and not because we particularly care for that person. Not all Slytherins are necessarily self-reliant and independent, but the vast majority are. Also, when it comes to Quidditch, you still cheer for your house whether or not you see them having a chance in the first place. But that's off topic.

The bottom line: Slytherin ain't all that bad and the rest of the houses ain't all that good, either. Period.

Cheers mates. ;)

Rosie Cotton February 18th, 2005 3:25 pm

If all of them became Dark Wizards, why don't they "chuck all the Slytherins out" as Ron says in CoS? Why don't they abolish the house if they all turn out evil?

asrivathsan February 18th, 2005 3:26 pm

A similar thing was discussed in the thread below, if not the same. But there was quite a lot of discussion, and i think you would be interested

Prejudice and the Slytherin

hayley_black February 18th, 2005 3:51 pm

That's an impossible question to answer, because we don't know all the Slytherins. But it's a bit unfair to just disregard one house because of a few bad people. The traits are supposed to be cunning and ambitiousnous (that even a word?), with most of the members being purebloods. Having said that it was Slytherin himself and Voldemort that originally acted on these "pure-blooded" beliefs and got a bad reputation for themselves.

There are other people in Slytherin, people like Blaise? Other "black sheep" of pure blooded families that just went into Slytherin so it would mean less trouble. I seem to recall someone called Daphne Greengrass and it never mentions her or her family being dark. Are the first years who have just been sorted there evil? Just because they have ambition and are less "fool-hardy" than the Gryffindors.

There is also the fact of whether or not Snape should be trusted, which we can't really decide untill we know why he switched sides. And what about the other houses? We know the Pettigrew turned traitor when he was a Gryffindor, and i'm sure he's not the only one. Personally i'm feeling that DD might have been a Slytherin considering how manipulative he is - but that's just speculation.

What about Harry? The sorting hat wanted to put him in Slytherin so does that make him evil? He's the "saviour" of the light and could easilly have been a Slytherin if he agreed with the hat.

Saying that the Slytherins are evil and untrustworthy because the more outspoken members tend to be is like saying everyone in the ministry is corrupt because the minister and a few members are - it's untrue and unfair.

enthusiast February 18th, 2005 5:18 pm

The answer to this question would depend who you ask because in the Order of the Phoenix Professor Umbridge considers the Slytherin students the MOST trustworthy students. If you judged the Sytherins by there Quidditch tactics one would have to say they do not seem very trust worthy since they are so sneaky and back handed and like to bend the rules when they think no one is looking. Though it seems to be the concensus with the posters in this thread that not all the Slytherins can be labeled untrustworthy.

As Dumbledore keeps requesting ALL the students to remain together as a group and stand as a whole against Voldemort, Dumbledore must have hope for the Slytherins.

Sarah

hotharry February 18th, 2005 5:22 pm

Well Snape was in Slytherin wasen't he. And although he may not be nice to Harry, he is not really a bad guy. He does work for the Order, so I'm sure there are some slytherins that aren't that bad and are trustworthy.

mattbufford February 18th, 2005 5:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosie Cotton
If all of them became Dark Wizards, why don't they "chuck all the Slytherins out" as Ron says in CoS? Why don't they abolish the house if they all turn out evil?

Did you not read anything that was posted in mine and cajunfry's previous posts?

crystal_joy February 18th, 2005 6:35 pm

This question comes from the assumption that most Slytherins are supporters of Voldemort, and I see no reason why we should assume this.

I think the main reason people think all Slytherins are evil is because of the "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin" line from SS. Now, just because Slytherin produces more dark wizards than the other houses, that doesn't mean that each and every one of them are bad. There is only a handful of Slytherins mentioned in the books, those Slytherins are what have lead to this stereotypical veiw. J.K.R. has highlighted this behavior but has yet to say that each and every Slytherin are evil Voldemort supporters... we just assume they are.

Some qualities of the Slytherin house are: wit, high goals, and ambition; I would hardly call any of those bad... Slytherin doesn't seem like such a terrible house to be in. The Harry Potter books have a big "choices" theme, just because someone is sorted into Slytherin that doesn't mean they are automaticaly evil. Gryffindor is brave, Hufflepuff is loyal, Ravenclaw is smart, and Slytherins are high achievers, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that.

Fawkesified February 18th, 2005 6:39 pm

Yes. JK has told us that there is 'one good Slytherin'.

mattbufford February 19th, 2005 7:21 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystal_joy
This question comes from the assumption that most Slytherins are supporters of Voldemort, and I see no reason why we should assume this.

I think the main reason people think all Slytherins are evil is because of the "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin" line from SS. Now, just because Slytherin produces more dark wizards than the other houses, that doesn't mean that each and every one of them are bad. There is only a handful of Slytherins mentioned in the books, those Slytherins are what have lead to this stereotypical veiw. J.K.R. has highlighted this behavior but has yet to say that each and every Slytherin are evil Voldemort supporters... we just assume they are.

Some qualities of the Slytherin house are: wit, high goals, and ambition; I would hardly call any of those bad... Slytherin doesn't seem like such a terrible house to be in. The Harry Potter books have a big "choices" theme, just because someone is sorted into Slytherin that doesn't mean they are automaticaly evil. Gryffindor is brave, Hufflepuff is loyal, Ravenclaw is smart, and Slytherins are high achievers, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that.

You made a really good point, and it's something many people don't understand. It is very true that just because someone is sorted into Slytherin House, doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to become a dark wizard. The statement made by Hagrid in the first novel is a statement like the classic "every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. Just because every dark wizard might have come from Slytherin house, that doesn't mean everyone from Slytherin House is a dark wizard. It is a logical fallacy.

asrivathsan February 19th, 2005 9:26 am

Quote:

Yes. JK has told us that there is 'one good Slytherin'.
Is that so? Then it answers the question. There would have been more earlier. Another thing is that no school would make a division between good and evil. Slytherins were never meant to be evil. anyway, we have not been told much about other slytherins to discuss much about it. A school is supposed to inculcate good into the children. Perhaps this not what is happening, but this is what is supposed to happen :).

Fawkesified February 19th, 2005 9:38 am

crystal_joy is right, we only see the Slytherin quidditch team, Pansy Parkinson and Millicent Bullstrode. It is highly unfair, bias and stereotypical to say that to be Slytherin means to be untrustworthy. I think the whole Slytherin thing has been blown out of proportion - OK, there be may be one or two 'bad/evil' Slytherins, but they are bad because of the way they were brought up. If Draco had never been exposed to Lucius I doubt that he would be so much of a git. JK does not think that anyone is born 'evil', as she has said on her website, therefor I doubt she wants her characters to be completely evil (other than Voldemort). Human beings are too complex to be labelled, whether they are labelled good, bad or toad-like ;).
I'm sure there are some Gryffindors, Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws who are just as mean as some Slytherins - it just doesn't make sense for all the other houses to be little-angel-:angel:-miracle-workers.

asrivathsan February 19th, 2005 3:32 pm

Quote:

I'm sure there are some Gryffindors, Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws who are just as mean as some Slytherins - it just doesn't make sense for all the other houses to be little-angel--miracle-workers.
Don't say that! :(. In sorting-hat.com i was alloted ravenclaw! Griffindor is harry's, ravenclaw, mine and hufflepuff qualities are not even close to evil! I guess there can be odd people but I hope not!


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