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Thornbird May 7th, 2007 1:36 pm

Luna in Ravenclaw?
 

Why is Luna in Ravenclaw? Criteria for students to be sorted into different houses is different and unique. Ravenclaw takes very intelligent students. Luna is definitely not that intelligent. Although there might just exist a Crumple-Horned Snorkack, but even so, is Luna worthy of Ravenclaw?:no:

I rather think she could be in Hufflepuff or even Gryffindor.

I do not wish to revolt any Luna fans, personally I love her quality of being frank and saying things as they are.:cool:

This is an open question, plz do respond.:tu:

NarcissaWeasley May 7th, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Luna strikes me as a great philosopher ie a great thinker,and whats a thinker if not intelligent?she may not be studious in the hermione sense of the word but philosophers rarely are.she focuses on abstact concepts and theories which have hitherto been neglected due to how ludicrous they sound.
Would it not have sounded ridiculous a couple of centuries ago to propose that the earth was round?
Its the lunas of the world,rather than the hermiones who make a difference in academia-while hermione can recite facts luna can come up with ideas of her own.she definitely deserves to be in ravenclaw.

Yoana May 7th, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NarcissaWeasley (Post 4499119)
Luna strikes me as a great philosopher ie a great thinker,and whats a thinker if not intelligent?she may not be studious in the hermione sense of the word but philosophers rarely are.she focuses on abstact concepts and theories which have hitherto been neglected due to how ludicrous they sound.
Would it not have sounded ridiculous a couple of centuries ago to propose that the earth was round?

That's exactly how I've always seen Luna, but I have never been able to pinpoint it oor put it in words. Thanks for that!

guad May 7th, 2007 2:53 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
I think this question could fit quite well in Luna Character discussion thread :)

Nandra May 8th, 2007 12:42 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
I absolutely agree, NarcissaWeasley. ^^

And also, let's remember that there's a precedent for people being sorted into unlikely houses - i.e., Neville and Hermione in Gryffindor rather than in Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, respectively. Even though Neville and Hermione didn't exactly display their courage for the world to see at first, that certainly doesn't mean they weren't brave; I think the same follows for Luna and her intelligence.

Lisa_Turpin May 8th, 2007 12:58 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Are you basing your theory of her not being intelligent upon the idea that she believes in things that no one else believes in? Honestly, I believe that Luna is very bright and knows quite a bit more than you are giving her credit for. She seems to be very in touch with things that are in a way supernatural (the veil, Thestrals) and is probably more educated on those topics than we know. When have we seen her in a capacity where she could demonstrate her intelligence like Hermione? We do not know her O.W.L. scores or how high her marks are in her classes. Just because we do not see Luna studying compulsively does not mean she is not smart.

Also, Ravenclaw values more qualities than just intelligence. In the first sorting hat song, the hat tells us, "Or yet in wise old Ravenclaw, if you've a ready mind, where those of wit and learning shall always find their kind." Ravenclaws value wit in addition to intelligence, and we have seen many times when Luna laughs hysterically at some ordinary wisecrack or piece of sarcasm that she personally finds funny.

Ravenclaws also primarily represent people who fall into the air sign category (That's why the symbol is a bird and they live in a tower.), and I would say Luna is more influenced by the air "element" than most people you would ever find.

In addition, I agree with guad. This discussion could probably be brought up in Luna's character discussion thread.

Hes May 8th, 2007 1:04 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thornbird (Post 4499109)

Why is Luna in Ravenclaw? Criteria for students to be sorted into different houses is different and unique. Ravenclaw takes very intelligent students. Luna is definitely not that intelligent. Although there might just exist a Crumple-Horned Snorkack, but even so, is Luna worthy of Ravenclaw?:no:

I rather think she could be in Hufflepuff or even Gryffindor.

I do not wish to revolt any Luna fans, personally I love her quality of being frank and saying things as they are.:cool:

This is an open question, plz do respond.:tu:


Luna doesn't take everything for granted and believes that anything is possible, even things that other people would consider unbelievable and abnormal. Which makes her a perfect person to have a job in something sciene related after she graduates. She is intelligent, only because of her interest in the abnormal she is considered strange and stupid. But she is far from it. So I would say that Ravenclaw as her house isn't some mistake.

mugglesrock May 8th, 2007 1:31 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
The Sorting Hat is to be trusted. I think we haven't seen the intelligent side of Luna, but I believe we have already seen glimpses of her insightful side. Luna does not accept beliefs just for the sake of it; she challenges them, she believes in theorizing -no matter how far-fetched they are. All that requires an active mind.

aislin May 8th, 2007 1:44 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Luna isn't afraid to think outside the box and she challenges others to open up their minds and to think about other possibilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcissa Weasley
Luna strikes me as a great philosopher ie a great thinker,and whats a thinker if not intelligent?she may not be studious in the hermione sense of the word but philosophers rarely are.she focuses on abstact concepts and theories which have hitherto been neglected due to how ludicrous they sound.
Would it not have sounded ridiculous a couple of centuries ago to propose that the earth was round?

Exactly!

dobbysfriend May 8th, 2007 3:51 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
I bet she will do very well on her OWLS.

NarcissaWeasley May 8th, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
I think the reason so many people harp on about hermione's deserving to be in ravenclaw while questioning luna's right to be there is based on a misunderstanding of what intelligence actually is.

Hermione's academic strength is her fantastic memory.she has the ability to memorise textbooks off by heart and recite them line for line like a parrot when required to do so in class or in exams.

Luna on the other hand prefers to formulate her own theories and explore the more controversial ideas of others rather than memorise a book,which possibly presents little or no academic challenge to her.

So the question is really,which do you regard as a more valid indicator of intelligence-the ability to memorise the words of others or the ability to be innovative and creative in thinking for yourself?

Hes May 8th, 2007 10:32 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NarcissaWeasley (Post 4500485)
I think the reason so many people harp on about hermione's deserving to be in ravenclaw while questioning luna's right to be there is based on a misunderstanding of what intelligence actually is.

Hermione's academic strength is her fantastic memory.she has the ability to memorise textbooks off by heart and recite them line for line like a parrot when required to do so in class or in exams.

Luna on the other hand prefers to formulate her own theories and explore the more controversial ideas of others rather than memorise a book,which possibly presents little or no academic challenge to her.

So the question is really,which do you regard as a more valid indicator of intelligence-the ability to memorise the words of others or the ability to be innovative and creative in thinking for yourself?


Good point, that is probably exactly the reason why Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw and Luna is.

With Hermione we have always seen that she is skeptical towards anything that isn't proven by cold hard facts. Luna is the opposite, she believe the impossible can be possible, even thought there aren't any facts (yet) to proof she is wrong or right. Hermione does seem to lack imagination at certain times. Which makes her less fit for becoming a scientist, something Luna seems to be born for and what to me seems to be common career choice for Ravenclaws.

Yoana May 8th, 2007 11:12 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NarcissaWeasley (Post 4500485)
Hermione's academic strength is her fantastic memory.she has the ability to memorise textbooks off by heart and recite them line for line like a parrot when required to do so in class or in exams.

I disagree about Hermione. She's not a parrot. She has been shown, many times, to exhibit ingenuity and creativeness. She comprehends everything more quickly than anyone - this has nothing to do with memory. She does better than anyone in spells that have just been taught - she can't have memorised them. She solved Snape's ridle when she was 12. She has a brilliant assessment of people - almost every time she makes a remark about someone, it's accurate. She understands people's motives and behaviour better than they themselves can. She had her own "pseciality" spell at the age of 12.

There are numerous examples of Hermione being bright and intelligent and very few of them come down to her memory alone.

NarcissaWeasley May 8th, 2007 11:30 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoana (Post 4500864)
I disagree about Hermione. She's not a parrot. She has been shown, many times, to exhibit ingenuity and creativeness. She comprehends everything more quickly than anyone - this has nothing to do with memory. She does better than anyone in spells that have just been taught - she can't have memorised them. She solved Snape's ridle when she was 12. She has a brilliant assessment of people - almost every time she makes a remark about someone, it's accurate. She understands people's motives and behaviour better than they themselves can. She had her own "pseciality" spell at the age of 12.

There are numerous examples of Hermione being bright and intelligent and very few of them come down to her memory alone.

I agree with you-hermione's a smart girl,i cant imagine anyone arguing otherwise:p

however,academically speaking,hermione's success lies for the most part with her top-notch memorising skills(as well as her amazing dedication)-at least that's what gets her the O's imo.

On the other hand,luna,whose intelligence we are inclined to doubt owes her prowess(which i have no doubt exists due to her presence in ravenclaw) to abstract thinking and creativity-which is a greater indicator of intelligence as opposed to study skills.

its ironic that i think like this incidentally,because im a complete hermione clone :lol:

Yoana May 8th, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NarcissaWeasley (Post 4500872)
IOn the other hand,luna,whose intelligence we are inclined to doubt owes her prowess(which i have no doubt exists due to her presence in ravenclaw) to abstract thinking and creativity-which is a greater indicator of intelligence as opposed to study skills.

I agree about everything you said about Luna. But I don't agree Hermione is lacking in imagination, as HesHPfan suggested. She's the one who came up with the Protean charm idea, she's the one who guessed about Rita Skeeter's disguise, she thought of Plyjuice potion and made the whole plan in CoS, etc. Her intelligence is not one-dimensional.

Comparng her and Luna tends to lead to blank statements about the one or the other, while they are both diverse, multilayered and unique.

IMissPadfoot May 8th, 2007 12:04 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NarcissaWeasley (Post 4500872)
however,academically speaking,hermione's success lies for the most part with her top-notch memorising skills(as well as her amazing dedication)-at least that's what gets her the O's imo.

I don't agree. In fact, I agree with Yoana's points completely. Hermione may well have excellent memorising skills, but as Yoana pointed out, Hermione solved Snape's riddle when she was very young, and she figured out things that the others never quite caught onto until later. Also, being the first to grasp spells isn't something she could necessarily learn from memorising things word for word.

Quote:

On the other hand,luna,whose intelligence we are inclined to doubt owes her prowess(which i have no doubt exists due to her presence in ravenclaw) to abstract thinking and creativity-which is a greater indicator of intelligence as opposed to study skills.
I do sort of agree with you in this. But....I don't think that either Hermione or Luna is more intelligent than the other, it's just a different kind of intelligence.

Quote:

its ironic that i think like this incidentally,because im a complete hermione clone :lol:
:lol: I am a Luna!

Hes May 8th, 2007 12:10 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoana (Post 4500890)
I agree about everything you said about Luna. But I don't agree Hermione is lacking in imagination, as HesHPfan suggested. She's the one who came up with the Protean charm idea, she's the one who guessed about Rita Skeeter's disguise, she thought of Plyjuice potion and made the whole plan in CoS, etc. Her intelligence is not one-dimensional.

Comparng her and Luna tends to lead to blank statements about the one or the other, while they are both diverse, multilayered and unique.

I didn't mean that she isn't good in her spell work or coming up with good ideas. I also think that she is very intelligent and most talented of all the students at Hogwarts.

However I do think that she lacks the ability to place herself in someone else feelings and thoughts and that she is too much dependant on book knowledge. Like I said before, Hermione really needs proof to accept something, while Luna is more philosophical in her approach.

I wasn't bashing Hermione in anyway you know, they are both smart and talented.

NarcissaWeasley May 8th, 2007 12:27 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
Dont get me wrong hermione is in my opinion one of the smartest characters in the books,but imo she's lacking many of the crucial elements which would make her highly intelligent eg emotional IQ(although granted shes improved drastically in this department since ootp) and the ability to think outside the box-a skill luna has perfected.

although she may have been the first to grasp spells,i think this lies with her having learned the theory to a tee more than anything else.

i think hermione succeeds by working herself to the bone-a lack of innovation is her main downfall i think.look for example at hbp with the princes diary-hermione is the only one of the trio who refuses to accept that there may be better ways of doing something than the 'established method'-she shows no creativity in her own work-all the magic she has such a firm grasp on was initially invented by the luna-esque folks-those who aren't afraid to try something new.

God it feels weird discussing hermione like this-you'd never think she's my favourite character:love:

Hes May 8th, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
I think I found another reason why Luna is suited to be in Ravenclaw. A lot of people tend to think that Luna belongs in Hufflepuff because she is rather strange etc etc. But in Hufflepuff house friendships seem to be very important and until HBP we never saw Luna valuing friendship that much. In OotP she seemed quite content with being on her own, because it gave her room for her dreams and weird theories. Only in HBP, she said that DA had felt like having friends. So I think that when she was sorted friendships didn't mean that much to her, but being able to do what she want did, something which seems to suit Ravenclaws, because although we know little about them, they seem to prefer to be rather ambitious.

YellowRose May 8th, 2007 2:30 pm

Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?
 
HBP (UK EDITION) page 201


Luna was demonstrating her usual knack of speaking uncomfortable truths, he had never met anyone quite like her.


This shows Luna is observant and smart, however spacey she can seem. So I dont see a problem with her being in Ravenclaw.


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