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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

Daelin May 24th, 2007 3:25 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Sorry, Lillbet, I lapsed into game-show persona there. :p

sparkly May 24th, 2007 4:44 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4526489)
I agree, if Harry dies then it would be meaningless if Voldemort survives and escapes justice. On the other hand, if Harry dies and takes Voldemort with him, that would certainly be in line with the "moral" and "unpredictable" streak we've seen in the books so far.

If Harry dies while defeating Voldermort, it makes the prophecy meaningless. If JKR was going to kill both, I can't see her establishing the prophecy as a major plot device. But she has devoted a lot of the story-line to the prophecy, and that tells me one or the other will survive the confrontation. I seriously doubt the survivor will be Voldermort, so it most likely will be Harry who lives.

TreacleFudge May 24th, 2007 4:52 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4527498)
If Harry dies while defeating Voldermort, it makes the prophecy meaningless. If JKR was going to kill both, I can't see her establishing the prophecy as a major plot device. But she has devoted a lot of the story-line to the prophecy, and that tells me one or the other will survive the confrontation. I seriously doubt the survivor will be Voldermort, so it most likely will be Harry who lives.

Agreed! Dont die Harry!

ID824 May 24th, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think he will die in his fight with Voldemort, but that he has an accidental horcrux out there and that he will come back to life shortly after his death.

catch128 May 24th, 2007 6:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by T__Riddle (Post 4329521)
I have always felt that Ginny has given Harry more purpose than just defeating the Voldemort and saving the world, but I have never thought about her giving him a potential life after DH, and now I think about it you are quite right.

:huh: Hmmm... I don't know. I mean Ginny obiously gives Harry a reason to live, but really, what about Hermionie and Ron, thery were the only "family" he knew and he was willing to leave them behind to go after voldermort. Besides deep down I think Ginny is going to be the barrier seperating life and death in the end anyway. Dumbledore always said the one thing harry had that voldermort never understood was love and voldermort might use that to his advantage. He might use Ginny to weaken harry. In the end Harry might die fromt the effort it takes to defeat the dark lord. But he is not a horcrux. If he was a part of voldermort's soul he would not be trying to murder harry I mean that is like suicide pretty much. That is killing a part of your soul. Even Voldermort has a mind.

Lillbet May 24th, 2007 8:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4527399)
Sorry, Lillbet, I lapsed into game-show persona there. :p

Next you'll be telling me what I've won. Hope it's something good! ;) :D


Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4527498)
If Harry dies while defeating Voldermort, it makes the prophecy meaningless. If JKR was going to kill both, I can't see her establishing the prophecy as a major plot device. But she has devoted a lot of the story-line to the prophecy, and that tells me one or the other will survive the confrontation. I seriously doubt the survivor will be Voldermort, so it most likely will be Harry who lives.

You've hit the nail on the head- the prophecy is a plot device. A plot device which, as Dumbledore pointed out, would be rendered moot if either Harry or Voldemort walked away. There's one book left and one of them might. We don't know this. Yet.

While we're at it, let's think about a plot device. A plot device is defined thus:

Quote:

a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot.
The prophecy does that- it advances the plot and makes us think the ending will come about a certain way. But it's not the only plot device and not the only thing that informs readers and points them toward the ending. While the prophecy says "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...", there may be a twist at the end (plot twists are also a form of plot device) that renders the prophesy moot.

One of the reasons I'm able to entertain the idea that Harry will die and take Voldemort with him is that Sybil Trelawney was vague enough in her prophesizing that readers thought she meant Neville for a bit.

Look at another one of her predictions:

Quote:

The second prediction occurred during the events of The Prisoner of Azkaban'. Trelawney again fell into a trance and recited:

"It will happen tonight. The Dark Lord lies alone and friendless, abandoned by his followers. His servant has been chained these 12 years. Tonight, before midnight... the servant will break free and set out to rejoin his master. The Dark Lord will rise again with his servant's aid, greater and more terrible than he ever was. Tonight... before midnight... the servant... will set out... to rejoin... his master...."

This prophecy was fulfilled when Peter Pettigrew's true identity was revealed and he escaped to rejoin Voldemort.
When I first read that I, like most folks, thought it was Sirius she was referring to. Totally valid assumption- he was suspected of having killed a lot of folks and everyone thought he was evil and therefore allied with Voldemort, he had been in Azkaban for 12 years, he broke out of prison, etc. The plot twist was that it was Peter, who had been a rat for 12 years (being chained to his animagus form perhaps?), and was rejoining his master.

Sticking to the conventions of storytelling that everyone seems to be so fond of, it's obvious that Voldemort will die, so that's a given. He's afraid of death, he's got to be punished, and Azkaban, being the only real punishment in the wizarding world isn't enough. We want Voldemort's blood, right? Well, I think we're going to get it. However, rather than the prophecy coming true as most of us assume- Harry kills Voldemort and we all live happily ever after- I think there's going to be another plot twist and Harry will lose his life as well.

Given Trelawney's track record and the vagueness of her prophecies I wouldn't be at all surprised if this were the outcome. These books have included so many twists and turns, that expectiing Harry to survive just out of hand, because "OMG, he just HAS to!" seems ridiculous.

alyssareiner May 24th, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I would be very disappointd if harry died in book 7. He is the hero of the series, it wouldn't be right for him to fail. I think lots of other people will die, obviously he needs to finish it off solo, but i would not be happy if he died.

HMN May 24th, 2007 11:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4527498)
If Harry dies while defeating Voldermort, it makes the prophecy meaningless. If JKR was going to kill both, I can't see her establishing the prophecy as a major plot device. But she has devoted a lot of the story-line to the prophecy, and that tells me one or the other will survive the confrontation. I seriously doubt the survivor will be Voldermort, so it most likely will be Harry who lives.

Over the last month I have been convincing myself that Harry will die - that he'll have to sacrifice himself somehow. But you are right about the propehcy - why base a whole book on it if both Harry and Voldemort die. That is such good thinking - it is so obvious.

Can JKR possibly let Harry die and let Voldemort live? It is a frightening thought. Even if he was left say, without his Horcruxes or even without his powers, I can't imagine how I'd feel walking away from the series. I'm off to change my post in "are you a seer..."

PotterFreak0515 May 24th, 2007 11:24 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Live. I almost wish he'd die, but judging from things Jo has said in interviews, I think he'll live.

sparkly May 25th, 2007 5:19 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4528393)
The prophecy does that- it advances the plot and makes us think the ending will come about a certain way. But it's not the only plot device and not the only thing that informs readers and points them toward the ending. While the prophecy says "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives...", there may be a twist at the end (plot twists are also a form of plot device) that renders the prophesy moot.

One of the reasons I'm able to entertain the idea that Harry will die and take Voldemort with him is that Sybil Trelawney was vague enough in her prophesizing that readers thought she meant Neville for a bit.

....

Sticking to the conventions of storytelling that everyone seems to be so fond of, it's obvious that Voldemort will die, so that's a given. He's afraid of death, he's got to be punished, and Azkaban, being the only real punishment in the wizarding world isn't enough. We want Voldemort's blood, right? Well, I think we're going to get it. However, rather than the prophecy coming true as most of us assume- Harry kills Voldemort and we all live happily ever after- I think there's going to be another plot twist and Harry will lose his life as well.

Given Trelawney's track record and the vagueness of her prophecies I wouldn't be at all surprised if this were the outcome. These books have included so many twists and turns, that expectiing Harry to survive just out of hand, because "OMG, he just HAS to!" seems ridiculous.

Introducing a plot twist at that level of significance at the end of the series that renders the prophecy meaningless, after relying so heavily on the prophecy until that point to move the story along, is spectacularly poor writing. I don't think JKR would stoop to trickery of that sort when she's shown she can write a great mystery without unannounced plot twists. Her revelations have all been heavily foreshadowed to this point and no one has been able to demonstrate that Harry dying is at all foreshadowed.

I don't expect Harry to live happily ever after, although I do expect him to survive. There are more than just two choices - Harry lives happily ever after, or he dies - and I fully expect JKR to make a different choice. Harry has already been emotionally damaged by his upbringing with the Dursleys and he will not be able to destroy Voldermort without suffering more damage. Will he be able to build a life after Voldermort is gone? I think so, but it will take some work on his part and the part of the people who care about Harry.

lindaluna May 25th, 2007 9:51 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
The Scholastic website quiz is interesting. The voters apparently don't think anyone will die! Even Voldemort! I think the maximum percentage for anyone is Voldie at 23%. So 77% think he'll live! Bizarre! Could Harry come up with a peaceful solution? Shrinking potion so Voldie gets to start over with loving parents? Breaking his wand?

(Unless a non choice registers as "live")

Discordia May 25th, 2007 3:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Will Harry live or die.....you know I think that it s apart of every heroe's journey if they are willing to make that ultimate sacrifice. Harry has already lost his parents, his godfather, and finally his mentor. Its like they are trying to strip Harry down to see what he's really made of. Even through all that he's been through he's survived. He hasn't curled up some where and just waiting to die. Harry knows the risks and he is willing to go on a suicide mission to save his world. People have died for him and Harry is going to do whatever it takes to defeat Voldemort. So if he dies I would not be surprised.

Lillbet May 25th, 2007 4:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4529169)
Introducing a plot twist at that level of significance at the end of the series that renders the prophecy meaningless, after relying so heavily on the prophecy until that point to move the story along, is spectacularly poor writing. I don't think JKR would stoop to trickery of that sort when she's shown she can write a great mystery without unannounced plot twists. Her revelations have all been heavily foreshadowed to this point and no one has been able to demonstrate that Harry dying is at all foreshadowed.

Here's the thing: I didn't decide Harry would die just on a whim to annoy you or anyone else, I got that idea from reading these books- the same ones you are reading.

I think that JKR has written it so that Voldemort will die, but for Harry it could go either way. Based on Harry's knack for wanting to save people (as Hermione remarks he has a "saving people thing"), and the fact that he cares about his friends and would do anything for them (and they for him), he might be put in a situation where he would lose/give up his life to save others.

I think the books foreshadow this perfectly- Lily sacrificed herself out of love for her son, and it's not bad writing or an "unannounced plot twist" if Harry were to finally take that lesson to heart and put himself between Voldemort and the rest of the wizarding world. Harry broke up with Ginny to "save" her- regardless of whether you think that's noble or selfish (different thread, we're not getting into that here)- it shows that he is willing to give something up if he even for a moment thinks it will help save someone else. And think of the countless times he pulled on his Invisibility Cloak to do something no one asked him to do because he thought it was required of him- to help, protect, save. He's made mistakes, he could die- especially now that he's older and not under the "protection" of the Dursleys, something that has been alluded to often. Now that his blood is running through Voldemort's veins it seems like Harry's more vulnerable than ever. The stakes have gotten higher as the books progressed and JKR has mentioned that the next death would be big because this is evil and evil doesn't take secondary characters (I'll try and find that quote if I can). Basically, JKR has written Harry to be someone who is flawed, but good and capable of selfless acts, but also able to be hurt- emotionally and physically- so a "plot twist" like that would be totally in line with the rest of the books.

(By the way, plot twists are not always "unannounced."
Quote:

Some "twists" can be predicted and are preempted by numerous hints whereas others are a complete shock - most are somewhere in the middle with some people foreseeing them and others not.
Many good writers and skilled filmmakers have used plot twists to great effect. It is not necessarily a hallmark of bad writing.)

The prophecy is important, true, but again- you have to look at Trelawney's record. Her prophecies are vague and cryptic and don't make sense until well after the fact- JKR wrote her that way on purpose. According to the Bloomsbury website "Swot Up on Potter" (and most scholarly writings on culture in general) the sybils of Ancient Greece and Rome were known for making cryptic predictions about the future, which often could not be understood until they had already come to pass. This might also happen with "the" prophecy- we can intrepret it now, but it won't really make sense until the final battle and that's totally in line with all of the foreshadowing that's gone before.

Makes sense to me: Remember when Trelawney predicted that 'one of our number will not be with us in the spring'? (that was paraphrasing- I can't find the exact quote, but I'll keep looking).

"Oho! Sounds like death to me!" the reader might say.

But no, Hermione ditches Divination and is no longer "with" the rest of the class. As JKR has said, "both Trelawney and I have worded the prophecy very carefully." which means we might not be reading it for all it's worth, but taking it at face value for now because we don't have enough to go on. Really. Reread the prophecy- there are no names, which is why folks assumed the prophecy was about Neville since his folks also thrice defied Voldemort. That prophecy is cryptic and it is built for a twist ending.

Trelawney predicts a death of someone born in midwinter and we later find out that Voldemort was born on New Year's Eve. Despite that, she continues to predict Harry's death- she is unswayed and goofy as she is the fact that she is unwavering in her belief that Harry is in danger sends out warning signals to me as a reader. Since her prophecy will likely not be understood until later, for now it is just a bug in our ear that something life-changing is going to happen- we know there will be a final battle between the two but more than that we can't tell. Maybe Harry will lose his powers and "die" as a wizard when Voldemort "dies" (taking Harry's powers?). Maybe he will lose Ginny and his love will "die" or his heart will break and he will be "dead" inside.

As for my assumptions being based on the premise that JKR is a poor writer, I would have to disagree with you heartily! The fact that I am not certain Harry will live proves that she's doing an excellent job- she has me guessing, reading more deeply, etc. If I was certain without a doubt that Harry would live I wouldn't bother to keep reading, frankly, because there'd be no reason to. Part of the reason these books appeal is that the characters are human and you can't predict what will happen- Sirius was dashing, feckless, rash, and loving, but he died. Quite suddenly, in fact. While I didn't expect things to be easy for Harry, necessarily, killing Sirius was the kind of rug-yanking I didn't think JKR was capable of.

Edit: I keep coming up with new points, but I'll stop now and let someone else have a go. Promise. No, really.
;)

In July I may very well find out I'm wrong, and that's fine. If I am wrong, I'm banking on her not disappointing me with an easy ending that wastes all the the clues she's left.

antidark May 25th, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Voldemort dies and Harry lives. I think if the series is indeed finished this is the conclusion we need to end things and not keep it open for books. With Voldemort alive we want more. We want to find out. Its not over. Harry needs to triumph and finish his task.

sparkly May 26th, 2007 6:11 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4529620)
Here's the thing: I didn't decide Harry would die just on a whim to annoy you or anyone else, I got that idea from reading these books- the same ones you are reading.

I think that JKR has written it so that Voldemort will die, but for Harry it could go either way. Based on Harry's knack for wanting to save people (as Hermione remarks he has a "saving people thing"), and the fact that he cares about his friends and would do anything for them (and they for him), he might be put in a situation where he would lose/give up his life to save others.

I think the books foreshadow this perfectly- Lily sacrificed herself out of love for her son, and it's not bad writing or an "unannounced plot twist" if Harry were to finally take that lesson to heart and put himself between Voldemort and the rest of the wizarding world. Harry broke up with Ginny to "save" her- regardless of whether you think that's noble or selfish (different thread, we're not getting into that here)- it shows that he is willing to give something up if he even for a moment thinks it will help save someone else. And think of the countless times he pulled on his Invisibility Cloak to do something no one asked him to do because he thought it was required of him- to help, protect, save. He's made mistakes, he could die- especially now that he's older and not under the "protection" of the Dursleys, something that has been alluded to often. Now that his blood is running through Voldemort's veins it seems like Harry's more vulnerable than ever. The stakes have gotten higher as the books progressed and JKR has mentioned that the next death would be big because this is evil and evil doesn't take secondary characters (I'll try and find that quote if I can). Basically, JKR has written Harry to be someone who is flawed, but good and capable of selfless acts, but also able to be hurt- emotionally and physically- so a "plot twist" like that would be totally in line with the rest of the books.

(By the way, plot twists are not always "unannounced."

I don't think that presents the whole story at this point. Harry has a noble streak, but JKR has gradually turned Harry's mind-set so that he's no longer looking over his shoulder at what he's lost. He has someone in his life that makes him happy - happier than he's ever been. I don't think JKR caused Harry to end his relationship with Ginny as a foreshadowing of his death; instead I think she's doing that because his journey is not finished. He still considers emotional connections to be a weakness despite Dumbledore's advice. I think JKR is going to show Harry's continuing maturity by causing him to realize that his feelings for Ginny are a source of strength and are not a weakness. That development in Harry's character will reduce his need to be noble and self-sacrificing and removes it as a foreshadowing of his death, in my opinion.


Quote:

Many good writers and skilled filmmakers have used plot twists to great effect. It is not necessarily a hallmark of bad writing.)
Plot twists that negate the prior build-up are poor writing. The prophecy has been a major component of the story since book five. Harry dying would mean that the prophecy is not important. That's a direct contradiction of what we've been told so far.

Quote:

The prophecy is important, true, but again- you have to look at Trelawney's record. Her prophecies are vague and cryptic and don't make sense until well after the fact- JKR wrote her that way on purpose. According to the Bloomsbury website "Swot Up on Potter" (and most scholarly writings on culture in general) the sybils of Ancient Greece and Rome were known for making cryptic predictions about the future, which often could not be understood until they had already come to pass. This might also happen with "the" prophecy- we can intrepret it now, but it won't really make sense until the final battle and that's totally in line with all of the foreshadowing that's gone before.

Makes sense to me: Remember when Trelawney predicted that 'one of our number will not be with us in the spring'? (that was paraphrasing- I can't find the exact quote, but I'll keep looking).

"Oho! Sounds like death to me!" the reader might say.

But no, Hermione ditches Divination and is no longer "with" the rest of the class. As JKR has said, "both Trelawney and I have worded the prophecy very carefully." which means we might not be reading it for all it's worth, but taking it at face value for now because we don't have enough to go on. Really. Reread the prophecy- there are no names, which is why folks assumed the prophecy was about Neville since his folks also thrice defied Voldemort. That prophecy is cryptic and it is built for a twist ending.

Trelawney predicts a death of someone born in midwinter and we later find out that Voldemort was born on New Year's Eve. Despite that, she continues to predict Harry's death- she is unswayed and goofy as she is the fact that she is unwavering in her belief that Harry is in danger sends out warning signals to me as a reader. Since her prophecy will likely not be understood until later, for now it is just a bug in our ear that something life-changing is going to happen- we know there will be a final battle between the two but more than that we can't tell. Maybe Harry will lose his powers and "die" as a wizard when Voldemort "dies" (taking Harry's powers?). Maybe he will lose Ginny and his love will "die" or his heart will break and he will be "dead" inside.
But Trelawney also predicted that Harry would live and have 12 children. Doesn't that contradict her earlier prophecies? Trelawney no longer predicts Harry's death, so her earlier statements must be weighed against her more recent predictions.

firth4eva May 26th, 2007 1:48 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will die because then Jo will not be pressured into writing more books.

ginnyluv May 26th, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
NO, plain and simple SHE WILL NOT KILL HIM OFF she wants the book to do well and it stil would by REAL fans but the phonies followers who are in it for thew hype will not want to read it then ...its true

LovelyLadyBlack May 26th, 2007 10:08 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No i will not have it,I mean she wouldnt .....she couldnt do it *sniff*:upset:
*seriously*Ah i'm kidding,but no i dont think JR would actually kill Harry.

ginnyluv May 26th, 2007 10:10 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
she won't unless his scar is a horcrux or somthing otherwise NO

bap0485 May 27th, 2007 3:07 am

firenze and Banes discussion about Harry
 
I wa just rereading the first book, and something caugh my eye. When Firenze helped Harry, Bane was upset, asking if he was trying to change fate. Then later, Firenze was saying that he hoped what the sky said about Harry's future wasn't true. So you think this eans Harry will die in the last book?

MaxPower4567 May 27th, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that if Harry dies in 7 his scar being a horucrux is not the reason. Remember Voldemort did not think Harry was going to survive there first encounter. So why would he have made Harry's scar a horucrux if he thought that he would be destroying Harry, and therefore the horucrux right after he made it. (after the murder of Lilly or James).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4530752)
But Trelawney also predicted that Harry would live and have 12 children. Doesn't that contradict her earlier prophecies? Trelawney no longer predicts Harry's death, so her earlier statements must be weighed against her more recent predictions.


She only predicts this after Harry defies Umbridge. Most likly this is not a valid predciton but rather a way of showing her approval of Harry's quibbler interview

sparkly May 27th, 2007 4:57 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxPower4567 (Post 4532150)


She only predicts this after Harry defies Umbridge. Most likly this is not a valid predciton but rather a way of showing her approval of Harry's quibbler interview


I agree. I was responding to an earlier post that stated that Trelawney's predictions about Harry's death were foreshadowing his actual death. I don't think either were valid predictions, and since they contradict each other only one can come true.

Of course, Harry will die some day, but I don't think he's going to die in his confrontation with Voldermort.

Shannah May 27th, 2007 5:10 am

Re: firenze and Banes discussion about Harry
 
I think that we'll find out in July!

ginnyluv May 27th, 2007 5:21 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxPower4567 (Post 4532150)
I think that if Harry dies in 7 his scar being a horucrux is not the reason. Remember Voldemort did not think Harry was going to survive there first encounter. So why would he have made Harry's scar a horucrux if he thought that he would be destroying Harry, and therefore the horucrux right after he made it. (after the murder of Lilly or James).




She only predicts this after Harry defies Umbridge. Most likly this is not a valid predciton but rather a way of showing her approval of Harry's quibbler interview





it would have been a cool twist though

Savage May 27th, 2007 10:30 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry dying I is a very possible. Jk has shown that the good people can die in the story. Look at Sirus and Dumbledore. No one saw Dumbledore coming to an end but it happened. So I wouldnt be too surprised if he does. But after all hes done I think he deserves a break dont you?

Gnomiegarden May 27th, 2007 8:19 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
NO -!! I can not believe JKR would ever considered it. Like you all say it is a children's book, good must win over evil. I would be too shocked to believe that Harry, Ron, Ginny or Hermonie are all not safe through the books. But I had to go over Dumbledore's death 4 times before I believed he really died.

lindaluna May 27th, 2007 10:28 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I didn't notice until this week that in the GOF DVD when Harry is unconcious at the world cup that his face blurs and almost there is a ghost figure on top of it.

Now I'm wondering if possibly HARRY cannot die:
  • PS/SS when he touched Quirrell
  • POA when he fell from broomstick
  • POA when he fell unconcious on the train
  • GOF at world cup campsite
  • GOF underwater when grindylows get him & they are Sparked off him BEFORE he touched his wand for ascendio!

And in the books there is a force that surges through Harry to protect him from Vernon in OOP and also with Mungdungus in HBP.

Now I'm wondering about the prophecy. If Harry and Voldie somehow SHARE part of each other's soul, can either DIE while the other LIVES ?

Nicole May 27th, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lindaluna (Post 4533316)
* GOF underwater when grindylows get him & they are Sparked off him BEFORE he touched his wand for ascendio!

Please leave movie scenes in Muggle Studies. While Harry did fight grindylows in GoF, it was well before reaching the 'captives' and Harry never cast a spell to rise to the surface. :)

lindaluna May 27th, 2007 11:03 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Guys - you're turning into the Inquisition Squad!

Rowena May 27th, 2007 11:31 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If he dies, I will be EXTREMELY upset!!
He better not.

scienceofsleep May 27th, 2007 11:49 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i think we need to look at J.K.Rowlings view of her fans. She gets a lot of influence on how she writes the book just by reading our forums, even if Harry's death makes sense in the long run, we still have to remember that Harry Potter appeals to many many people in younger audiences. Many of J.K.R's choices on how to write harry potter has to do with the impact it will have on the audience. Not only will there be a lot of unhappy fans if the main character of the book dies, but the point of reading the story does not exactly have to do with defeating voldemort, thats just Harry's main goal. The point of the books has to do with watching Harry grow and suceed with many many obstacles. I dont think as an audience that the ULTIMATE treat of the book series would be the death of the Dark Lord, and definitley not Harry dying alonside him. these are just some of the reasons i believe harry wont die..

Spritey May 27th, 2007 11:57 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4533429)
i think we need to look at J.K.Rowlings view of her fans. She gets a lot of influence on how she writes the book just by reading our forums, even if Harry's death makes sense in the long run, we still have to remember that Harry Potter appeals to many many people in younger audiences. Many of J.K.R's choices on how to write harry potter has to do with the impact it will have on the audience. Not only will there be a lot of unhappy fans if the main character of the book dies, but the point of reading the story does not exactly have to do with defeating voldemort, thats just Harry's main goal. The point of the books has to do with watching Harry grow and suceed with many many obstacles. I dont think as an audience that the ULTIMATE treat of the book series would be the death of the Dark Lord, and definitley not Harry dying alonside him. these are just some of the reasons i believe harry wont die..

She doesn't, though. JKR's always said that she's writing primarily for herself, and that she won't "tone it down". I posted a bunch of quotes to that effect somewhere in this thread... they got lost, it looks like. I can find them again if anyone wants them :)

Also, wouldn't Harry looking Voldemort's worst fear in the eye bravely be a huge triumph?

(I had a 'Who's "she"? The cat's mother?' moment whilst I was writing this. It was in my mum's voice, unsurprisingly :lol: Rephrase, stat!)

eviljim13 May 28th, 2007 12:43 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Boy Howdy.At just about every important moment of his life Harry has been able to look death inthe face and survive.On the face of it this would seem to be kind of remarkable-but he IS the "Boy Who Lived"-why kill him now?NO REASON-Harry will go thru HELL but he will NOT die.Even the cover sugests that Harry has an advantage-Harry has palms up-life,living-versus Voildemort,palms down-defeat,giving in.Just one more thought on my account however I am firm in my beleif that Harry will live>Jo did not give us this truly heroic charecter only to kill him off at the end.Sorry,not buying this.

scienceofsleep May 28th, 2007 1:41 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

She doesn't, though. JKR's always said that she's writing primarily for herself, and that she won't "tone it down". I posted a bunch of quotes to that effect somewhere in this thread... they got lost, it looks like. I can find them again if anyone wants them

Also, wouldn't Harry looking Voldemort's worst fear in the eye bravely be a huge triumph?

(I had a 'Who's "she"? The cat's mother?' moment whilst I was writing this. It was in my mum's voice, unsurprisingly Rephrase, stat!)
I understand the JKR writes most of the book for herself, but im looking at it in a logical point of view. The author will naturally state that the book is writen exactly how she planned from the start, and im not calling JKR a liar here, but obviously changes will be made from fan reactions, im sure there are even little parts in the book that are sort of a fan-service bit. One of the biggest reasons why the twists in harry potter are so unidentifiable can easily be because JKR already knows everything we predict, assume and contemplate because of how vast the harry potter universe is in public. Harry's life is what we've followed throughout the entire book, and even if she's writing to herself once again i dont think the story began in her head as 7 books of trying to defeat voldemort and dying in the end even by defeating him. But rather 7 books spanning harry's life at hogwarts with minor and major obstacles, and surely it is at everyones best interest that even if dilema's arise in the 7th book, harry's life being the prominent force that drives all the books forward will not come to a heroic stop.

Spritey May 28th, 2007 2:38 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4533586)
I understand the JKR writes most of the book for herself, but im looking at it in a logical point of view. The author will naturally state that the book is writen exactly how she planned from the start, and im not calling JKR a liar here, but obviously changes will be made from fan reactions, im sure there are even little parts in the book that are sort of a fan-service bit. One of the biggest reasons why the twists in harry potter are so unidentifiable can easily be because JKR already knows everything we predict, assume and contemplate because of how vast the harry potter universe is in public. Harry's life is what we've followed throughout the entire book, and even if she's writing to herself once again i dont think the story began in her head as 7 books of trying to defeat voldemort and dying in the end even by defeating him. But rather 7 books spanning harry's life at hogwarts with minor and major obstacles, and surely it is at everyones best interest that even if dilema's arise in the 7th book, harry's life being the prominent force that drives all the books forward will not come to a heroic stop.

Hmm, but if that was the case, I think we'd have Alive!Dumbledore in DH (which Jo has vetoed). I really do believe her when she says she writes completely for herself. Oh, and I found those quotes, they were at the beginning of this thread (I am an idiot):

Quote:

Have you ever thought "Maybe I should tone it down"?

JKR: No. I know that sounds kind of brutal but no, I haven't. The bottom line is, I have to write the story I want to write. I never wrote them with a focus group of 8-year-olds in mind. I have to continue telling the story the way I want to tell it. I don't at all relish the idea of children in tears, and I absolutely don't deny it's frightening. But it's supposed to be frightening! And if you don't show how scary that is, you cannot show how incredibly brave Harry is. He's really brave, and he does, I think, one of his bravest things in this book: He can't save Cedric, but he wants to save Cedric's parents additional pain. He wants to bring back the body and treat it with respect.
and on the subject of age groups:

Quote:

DR: ... and if you've just joined us, we have a real treat this morning, having J.K. Rowling with us. She is Joanne Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series. Three books that have ignited young *and* adult readers all around the world. If you'd like to join us 1-800-433-8850. What age group are you actually aiming for, Jo?

JKR: When I'm writing, I don't aim for any - any age group. I write these books entirely for myself. And in fact, before - before my British publisher Bloomsbury told me that they were going to market the books as for 9 year olds and above, I really had no idea. A vague idea, obviously. I mean, I was aware they weren't for 3 year olds, and I knew that probably 19 year olds would be wanting to read other stuff, although I've met quite a few 19 year olds since, so that's - that's a really nice thing. The optimum age, I'd definitely say is 9+ for these books.
I'm starting to think I should put them in my signature, I copy/paste them so often :D Anyway, I guess the one problem I have here is that death seems to be considered a failure in the context of this story, and I really have a hard time thinking like that. However, if I was a broken record at the beginning of this thread, I dread to think of where I am now, so I think I'm just gonna say "we'll see what happens in DH" and leave it for a while :)

Lillbet May 28th, 2007 5:52 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4530752)
Plot twists that negate the prior build-up are poor writing. The prophecy has been a major component of the story since book five. Harry dying would mean that the prophecy is not important. That's a direct contradiction of what we've been told so far.

Not really. The prophecy is vague and doesn't even name names. It serves merely as the catalyst that will bring the antagonist and protagonist together and it has been in place since the first book. When Dumbledore put Harry on the Dursley's doorstep, his actions were been dictated by the prophecy. Voldemort has been influenced by it as well: remember he chose Harry as his adversary because Harry was so like him that Voldemort considered him a threat. We guess it's Harry who is the subject of the prophecy, but we don't even know yet how James and Lily defied him thrice, and we had to be told that Neville wasn't The One, so clearly we don't have all the pieces in the puzzle.

Also, Dumbledore points out that if either or both of them walked away the prophecy would mean nothing. Of course, he knows that neither of them will. It almost seems that with every adventure Dumbledore's been grooming Harry to take on the role of Voldemort's opponent, likely because he knows that Voldemort, having chosen Harry as his adversary, will fight to the death of which he (LV) is so afraid.

The build-up so far is that Harry has overcome numerous obstacles, with the help of those who care about him, to meet Voldemort as an equal on a battlefield. As much as he's gone through, Harry is still an emotionally bruised teenager prone to mistakes and self-doubt but also possessing of a great heart and a keen mind. He's learned to love and care for people and that sacrifice is part of love. Therefore, his death would not, to repeat another poster, be a failure- especially if he died fighting tooth and nail for his friends and took Voldemort with him- either for the character or his creator. In my opinion.

Nightrush May 28th, 2007 7:56 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
From an aspiring writer's perspective, and with some knowledge from the multitude of writing classes I have attended, I can attest to the probable fact that JKR will write for herself and that any forum discussion is merely speculation and wouldn't be influential. She has created a modern day masterpiece in this series, something not many writers have done this century, and will let it write out as she has sees fit.

To me, killing Harry would turn this adventure into a tradegy, and after 6 books I personally have never felt this story was heading in that direction. It would be an awkward twist to suddenly change the overall tone, which killing off Harry would do. I've often said that she made it clear with the first chapter of the first book about his fate: The Boy Who Lived.

sparkly May 28th, 2007 8:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4533979)
Not really. The prophecy is vague and doesn't even name names. It serves merely as the catalyst that will bring the antagonist and protagonist together and it has been in place since the first book. When Dumbledore put Harry on the Dursley's doorstep, his actions were been dictated by the prophecy. Voldemort has been influenced by it as well: remember he chose Harry as his adversary because Harry was so like him that Voldemort considered him a threat. We guess it's Harry who is the subject of the prophecy, but we don't even know yet how James and Lily defied him thrice, and we had to be told that Neville wasn't The One, so clearly we don't have all the pieces in the puzzle.

I think the books would have had to cast some doubt that Harry and Voldermort are the subjects of the prophecy, or at least provide some alternatives, if JKR was intending to reveal that the prophecy is meant for others. The only alternative was Neville and Dumbledore has already dismissed him as the subject of the prophecy. A new revelation in book 7 that the prophecy doesn't refer to Harry would have to be foreshadowed, I believe.

I don't think the books have been laid out in the way you describe: that Dumbledore made a mistake in determining the subjects of a prophecy about the destruction of the Dark Lord and that this prophecy is instead meant for other people. The prophecy is pretty significant: it says the person with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord is approaching. That means that someone else could defeat this Dark Lord and Harry has the bad luck to get chosen by Voldermort instead of whoever this random person is. Again, that renders the prophecy to be meaningless and I think there's been too much emphasis on the prophecy to have it trivialized as a mistake.

Lillbet May 28th, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4534898)
I don't think the books have been laid out in the way you describe: that Dumbledore made a mistake in determining the subjects of a prophecy about the destruction of the Dark Lord and that this prophecy is instead meant for other people. The prophecy is pretty significant: it says the person with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord is approaching. That means that someone else could defeat this Dark Lord and Harry has the bad luck to get chosen by Voldermort instead of whoever this random person is. Again, that renders the prophecy to be meaningless and I think there's been too much emphasis on the prophecy to have it trivialized as a mistake.

We're going off track here, but before I try and steer this back, there's a great Dumbledore quote that says something to the effect of "I make mistakes just like anyone else, but because I'm quite intelligent my mistakes tend to be significantly larger." So nu, could be a big mistake, I'm thinking. Oop, went all Yiddish grandmother there. The point being, Dumbledore has been doing what he can with what little info he has. He has been all through the books.

But back to the subject at hand: the prophecy can't be called a mistake because yet since it's not exact enough and so far it hasn't been fully explained. It says: "Either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives." Nowhere does that say "But one of them has to live" or "One of them will definitely survive" it just says that Person A can't live while Person B is alive and vice versa, so one of them has to kill the other. OR maybe they both have to die because they both can't survive in the world. And it also doesn't say "Harry" or "Voldemort." It just doesn't.

And as a corollary, like Trelawney's last big prophecy (the one about Sirius and Wormtail) this prophecy is broken into pieces, so why assume it's all about one person? Maybe it's not all about Harry. Maybe Harry was chosen, but he still dies because maybe he's not the one with the power to defeat Voldemort. In the end, the prophecy is only a catalyst- it has weight with Voldemort because he is afraid and because he chose Harry to be his opponent and now has to kill his opponent or be killed by hiim. It has weight with Harry because of Voldemort's certainty and his attacks on Harry- he's not going to let up on Harry until one of them is dead. It doesn't say who will survive, though. We assume Voldemort will die (I can go along with that) but nobody can say that Harry will live. Dumbledore, who Harry respects and looks up to, doesn't even have enough info to give such an assurance. Harry is going into battle with the belief that he must and that he needs retribution for his parents' deaths, but not even the prophecy guarantees his safety. I'm a fan of narrative convention, but I have a hard time believing that the last book will follow such a cliched path.

Again, JKR has said that she "and Trelawney" worded the prophecy very carefully- and since the prophecy is appropriately vague and cryptic, that means to me that (although I assume Voldemort will die regardless) that the outcome may not be as cut and dried as Voldemort dying and Harry living.

eviljim13 May 29th, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Responding to recent comments-Harry asks wether or not the prophecy means that he must kill Voldemort-DD says yes in an un-ambiguous fashion.So will Harry die in DH?NO-he will kill Voldemort and live!!He IS The Boy Who Lived:tu:

Vicious_Tuna May 29th, 2007 3:57 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
(i dunno if this has been posted before, but here goes) Harry won't die! I came to this conclusion as I was rereading sorcerer's stone. On page 262 (American version), at the very beginning of the chapter 'Through the Trap Door' , Rowling writes: "In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment'"

I think the phrase "In years to come" would be more fitting for a significant amount of time (which would indicate that Harry will live to adulthood), rather than a span of 6 or less years.

Lillbet May 29th, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious_Tuna (Post 4535760)
(i dunno if this has been posted before, but here goes) Harry won't die! I came to this conclusion as I was rereading sorcerer's stone. On page 262 (American version), at the very beginning of the chapter 'Through the Trap Door' , Rowling writes: "In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment'"

I think the phrase "In years to come" would be more fitting for a significant amount of time (which would indicate that Harry will live to adulthood), rather than a span of 6 or less years.

Hmmm... possibly. :hmm:

scienceofsleep May 29th, 2007 4:57 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think its almost a sort of "i owe you a LIFE" thing when it comes to Harry. He's no longer the boy who lived, he's the boy who deserves to live. Every time he beats voldemort i dont think JKR is telling us "at one point he'll beat him and die" its more of a "voldemort and harry both grow powerful, but the last battle will leave one standing". i think thats the biggest thing in the harry potter books, yeah evil has succeeded many times before but with consequences. harry's parents PAID already for voldemorts downfall. i dont think harry himself will have to give up his own life for voldemort to fall once again . every chapter in the book is written to show harry's strength as a person, his growth as a boy and the love he keeps finding. Killing off Harry is like blatantly stateing that he is a tragic hero with tragic flaws that caused his death. the mystery the HP books create isnt really about "will Voldy or Harry win at the end". its pretty clear that harry's going to win, the question is "How the hell is some 7th year boy going to defeat the dark lord, and whose lives will be sacrificed on the journey"

CharminglyYours May 29th, 2007 11:15 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4535902)
Every time he beats voldemort i dont think JKR is telling us "at one point he'll beat him and die" its more of a "voldemort and harry both grow powerful, but the last battle will leave one standing". i think thats the biggest thing in the harry potter books, yeah evil has succeeded many times before but with consequences. harry's parents PAID already for voldemorts downfall. i dont think harry himself will have to give up his own life for voldemort to fall once again . every chapter in the book is written to show harry's strength as a person, his growth as a boy and the love he keeps finding. Killing off Harry is like blatantly stateing that he is a tragic hero with tragic flaws that caused his death. the mystery the HP books create isnt really about "will Voldy or Harry win at the end". its pretty clear that harry's going to win, the question is "How the hell is some 7th year boy going to defeat the dark lord, and whose lives will be sacrificed on the journey"


Oh, I agree. And everytime Harry succeeded over Voldemort, it's like someone close to him paid the price, really.
Sirius, and Dumbledore, and his parents...
On a slightly different note, it's like these people have fallen for him and now he's just left standing, to fight Voldemort. I think he might have to sacrifice himself, to finally defeat Voldemort once and for all. I would absolutely hate it if Voldemort died and Harry lived and everything was dandy.

JustAnIllusion May 29th, 2007 11:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry should live. I think it'd be a slap in the face to all of us if he didn't. Of course it would be for the greater good, or something of that sort, with a deeper message implied... But wouldn't the better message be that good always triumphs over evil? That is the main theme of the book; Good vs. Evil. The other big theme is the power of love and family... And with the power of his mother's love, Harry will survive. If he doesn't, it just shows that his family sacrificed themselves for nothing, and the love that his mother gave him wasn't enough. He's the 'Boy Who Lived'. With death, he'd be the boy who died, which obviously is very morbid, indeed!

And finally, Jo's written so much about him over these years. I highly doubt she'd be able to kill somebody that she should love so dearly. She's got to love him about as much as we all do, if not more, and I can't imagine her killing him off. Look at Stranger Than Fiction, if you will. The author couldn't manage to kill the man off, for all the deeper meaning in the world. Of course that's where the similarities end, but it does compare, if you think about it...

Harry will [hopefully!] live. For all of our sakes =]

HMN May 30th, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I have to write this, because I hope it does not happen, and I have to get it out of my head. I went and saw Beauty and the Beast on Broadway (New York City) this weekend (it's closing, so I took my daughter) and because I hadn't seen the Disney version of the story since it came out about 15 years ago I forgot about the ending. Gaston attacks the Beast and wounds him so badly that he dies - however Belle confesses her love just in time before the last petal of the enchanted rose falls - the Beast comes alive again when he is transformed into the Prince he always was...

So I couldn't get it out of my head, that it IS a possibility that 1. Harry's scar does contain a bit of Voldemort's soul, and if he was killed, it could be that the LV soul bit is what dies leaving Harry alive or 2. Harry comes around and finds love for someone (Snape? Voldemort? Peter?) just before he dies and that activates the Ancient Magic trapped in his scar saving his life and letting him live.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I've written it down and I can move on. :)

inkling7 May 30th, 2007 4:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
However if Jo says there's a bit of Harry in her and she has fought back from advesity and won - happy marriage, more children etc then MAYBE (but not necessarily but hopefully) she has written a similar end to Harry's life and he will find true love and happines as Jo has.

Sonorus_Quietus May 31st, 2007 2:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

I would absolutely hate it if Voldemort died and Harry lived and everything was dandy.
If Harry lives (which he better), even if he kills Voldemort (which he better :p ) there will always be evil in the world. Thus, everything will not be "dandy", but they will be much better off.

Schlubalybub May 31st, 2007 7:22 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think (and I think that a lot of other people also think) that Harry will die by killing Voldemort. The whole Neither can live while the other survives thing makes me think that they both have to die, if one of them can't live. I also think that JKR will want to kill off Harry so that nobody else can carry on the stories. Although my boyfriend thinks that if Harry dies then Warner Brothers will change it so he lives so that they can carry on making the films, but that is a bit off topic, sorry

expelliarmus_01 May 31st, 2007 7:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious_Tuna (Post 4535760)
(i dunno if this has been posted before, but here goes) Harry won't die! I came to this conclusion as I was rereading sorcerer's stone. On page 262 (American version), at the very beginning of the chapter 'Through the Trap Door' , Rowling writes: "In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment'"

I think the phrase "In years to come" would be more fitting for a significant amount of time (which would indicate that Harry will live to adulthood), rather than a span of 6 or less years.

I agree. Here is another quote from Harry that I like. PG 68 (American edition) Prisoner of Azkaban
"I'm not goint to be murdered," Harry said out loud.

Of course here he meant by Sirius Black, but I would like to think it applies to the ending as well.
I have to hope anyway.

couleur May 31st, 2007 11:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Read about the Harry Potter Theme Park and the news has me convinced that Harry will live.

Think about it --- you are considering building a huge theme park. Would you go ahead without some assurance that the series doesn't end with a MAJOR bummer -- i.e. main character's death?

iheartsirius June 1st, 2007 1:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
:grumble: :td: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :huh: :( :( NNNNNNNNNNnnoooooooooooooooooo!!!! Don't let him die, JK!!

missPotta June 1st, 2007 2:38 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm starting to think that this could go either way...I can't make up my mind!
I don't want Harry to die, but he might, we'll never know till it comes out!

lindaluna June 1st, 2007 10:45 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think the theme park is a really good sign that the series has a happy ending! What would they do - have a ride called Harry's death? It would be a gravesite, place to go to mourn, vs a "happiest place on earth", so to me theme park = happy ending. Phew!

Deathly_Potter June 1st, 2007 11:11 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think that the theme park is necessarily a good or bad sign. If you ask me Universal is just trying to cash in on the Harry Potter hype. Plus if, god forbid, Harry does die I think "Harry's Death" would be an awesome ride.

Swan_007 June 1st, 2007 11:32 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Short answer, No.

I dont think Harry will die. But I am now starting to think that the final battle with Voldy will not only cost Harry his wand, bu that he will loose his magical ability too! :err:

hermione007 June 1st, 2007 1:37 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think Harry will die, what would be gained from the series, and i don't beleive that JKR killing him off just to prevent other authors resurrecting him would work, to do that she would need to kill off the whole wizard world, as someone else would always be able to create new stories based on hogwarts, hogsmead, etc, as harry has also lost all his close family (parents, sirius and dumbledore), the only other people of consequence to him are the weasleys, neville or hermione, therefore i think one or more of these will die.

SusanBones June 1st, 2007 1:48 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicious_Tuna (Post 4535760)
(i dunno if this has been posted before, but here goes) Harry won't die! I came to this conclusion as I was rereading sorcerer's stone. On page 262 (American version), at the very beginning of the chapter 'Through the Trap Door' , Rowling writes: "In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment'"

I think the phrase "In years to come" would be more fitting for a significant amount of time (which would indicate that Harry will live to adulthood), rather than a span of 6 or less years.

This is a good quote. Of course, Harry was eleven and he will be seventeen in the last book. Is six years enough? But I agree, this looks like he will live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion (Post 4537127)
Harry should live. ... But wouldn't the better message be that good always triumphs over evil? That is the main theme of the book; Good vs. Evil. The other big theme is the power of love and family... And with the power of his mother's love, Harry will survive. If he doesn't, it just shows that his family sacrificed themselves for nothing, and the love that his mother gave him wasn't enough. He's the 'Boy Who Lived'. With death, he'd be the boy who died, which obviously is very morbid, indeed!

I agree that it would seem meaningless for Lily to have sacrificed her life only to have Harry lose his, too. And it is a book of good versus evil. I don't want evil to win.

And the first chapter of the first book is the boy who lived. It needs to stay that way. :lol:

Moldywart June 1st, 2007 6:52 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry will die...because Prof. Trelawney says so. Think I'm nuts, read on...

I believe that there is much more to Divination and Prof. Trelawney than the trio thinks. If you follow the belief, as I do, that Hermione is always right and Ron is always wrong in their predictions unless Ron is joking or Hermione is letting her emotions get the best of her, then you will see that their opinion of Trelawney and Divination is grossly inaccurate. Remember that after being insulted in POA, Hermione (letting her emotions control her) drops Trelawney's class because there is no scientific proof that Divination is real magic. We think Trelawny is a joke because she is always predicting death and horrible things, but is it just a coincidence that death and bad things tend to happen in the HP series??? If you believe that there is no such thing as a coincidence in JKR's writing, then there has to be another explanation - Trelawney's predictions are accurate.

In POA, she accurately continues to see the Grim when looking at Harry's future. The grim was a big black dog that was in fact stalking and did have a confrontation with Harry (Sirius). She accurately predicts that Umbridge is "in grave danger" and she senses, "something that concerns you (Umbridge)...something dark...some grave peril".(OOTP, p. 315) We know that Umbridge did indeed find herself in "grave danger" in "something dark" when she was in the forrest getting attacked by centaurs. Now, of course, we dismiss this at the time because Trelawny is a nut. On the same page (OOTP, p. 315) she again predicts Harry's "gruesome and early death". This seems unimportant, because she always predicts Harry's death and because JKR puts it in parenthesis to show that it's not even a lasting thought with Harry. Notice she never says, you will die tomorrow. She says "early death". If Harry does die in the 7th book, I wonder how many people will finally start to believe in Trelawney. My bet is people will still think she is a nut.

What seems odd to me is that her two episodes of true seeing (the prophecy and the dark lord returning to power) seem to be the predictions that would not have come true if she had not foretold them.

Here's a link to another page that kind of confirms that there is more to Divination class than meets the eye:
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread....ron+divination

gertiekeddle June 1st, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm a big fan of Trelawneys predictions - indeed almost all of them have been true, just with more or less different interpretation. But I think the Harry-issue is still unsolved. On the one hand she predicts his early death, on the other he will become Minister of Magic with a big family. As I believe Harry will live, I tend to think the latter is right, but admit that I don't know how to interpretate one or the other. I doubt one of them will come true just as it was said (what would be impossible anyway, though).

lancane June 1st, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
In all truths, I think Harry's death is so foreshadowed that it is a blind man's jump - suspense, the clues to something vastly different to the end means.

His power has proven he can survive, the power the Dark Lord knows not (Love & Caring) - Year One: The Troll - "Many first years would not escape unharmed taking on a full grown mountain troll" - Minerva, Quarrell - His touch by his mothers love; which his own love and caring, though he should have died led to a different conclusion then should happen. Year Two: the chamber of secrets, the spiders, the basalisk, saving Ginny, again same thing...and so on, Talweny may have some ability, I do not believe she is a poor seer, I just think it is all for not.

My theory is that Harry will go into the veil with Voldemort, but he will return - he will pass into death's realm, he will though once again survive, due to his power of love, and those whom love him. She will be right and wrong, as she has proven to be on more then one occasion.

hermione007 June 1st, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldywart (Post 4542181)
Harry will die...because Prof. Trelawney says so. Think I'm nuts, read on...

I believe that there is much more to Divination and Prof. Trelawney than the trio thinks. If you follow the belief, as I do, that Hermione is always right and Ron is always wrong in their predictions unless Ron is joking or Hermione is letting her emotions get the best of her, then you will see that their opinion of Trelawney and Divination is grossly inaccurate. Remember that after being insulted in POA, Hermione (letting her emotions control her) drops Trelawney's class because there is no scientific proof that Divination is real magic. We think Trelawny is a joke because she is always predicting death and horrible things, but is it just a coincidence that death and bad things tend to happen in the HP series??? If you believe that there is no such thing as a coincidence in JKR's writing, then there has to be another explanation - Trelawney's predictions are accurate.

In POA, she accurately continues to see the Grim when looking at Harry's future. The grim was a big black dog that was in fact stalking and did have a confrontation with Harry (Sirius). She accurately predicts that Umbridge is "in grave danger" and she senses, "something that concerns you (Umbridge)...something dark...some grave peril".(OOTP, p. 315) We know that Umbridge did indeed find herself in "grave danger" in "something dark" when she was in the forrest getting attacked by centaurs. Now, of course, we dismiss this at the time because Trelawny is a nut. On the same page (OOTP, p. 315) she again predicts Harry's "gruesome and early death". This seems unimportant, because she always predicts Harry's death and because JKR puts it in parenthesis to show that it's not even a lasting thought with Harry. Notice she never says, you will die tomorrow. She says "early death". If Harry does die in the 7th book, I wonder how many people will finally start to believe in Trelawney. My bet is people will still think she is a nut.

What seems odd to me is that her two episodes of true seeing (the prophecy and the dark lord returning to power) seem to be the predictions that would not have come true if she had not foretold them.

Here's a link to another page that kind of confirms that there is more to Divination class than meets the eye:
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread....ron+divination

but she also says in ootp that she changes her mind about him dying

snowyowl101 June 3rd, 2007 11:38 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i think he will... but i also think LV will 2!!! yea yea i know it defeats the purpose but still it would through a weird twist... dont ya think...


^ --- ^
\ 0 0 /
{ * }

Lillbet June 4th, 2007 12:52 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hermione007 (Post 4542360)
but she also says in ootp that she changes her mind about him dying

She tells him he'll live a long life and have many children because she knows he helped run off Umbridge. I think this was discussed earlier in the thread. If I can find the quote I will post it.

RemusLupinFan June 4th, 2007 3:36 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm going to be optimistic and say that Harry won't die in Deathly Hallows. Though he faces a dangrous path, I believe he will survive and continue to be the Boy Who Lived, and I choose to believe he will triumph over Voldemort. But just because he lives doesn't mean he'll necessarily have a happy ending.

oneinhufflepuff June 4th, 2007 4:40 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will live but be horribly emotionally scarred. *sniff*

inkling7 June 4th, 2007 3:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Bloody hell (as Ron would say) many of the youngsters and I mean those under 16 seem to revel in the thought that Harry will die and Voldemort will prevail - I can't think why but do you think they are rebelling against us oldies (those over 16)?

I hope that at least a Frodo (with a romance) type ending will come about - to satisfy many of us but that Ginny's love will be the equivalent of the 'journey to the Havens' type ending of the LOTR and Harry can be healed before he has to make any other journeys to heal his mental and physical wounds.

Spritey June 4th, 2007 4:33 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4547009)
Bloody hell (as Ron would say) many of the youngsters and I mean those under 16 seem to revel in the thought that Harry will die and Voldemort will prevail - I can't think why but do you think they are rebelling against us oldies (those over 16)?

Not at all. I don't in any way think Voldemort will win - I've not really even put much thought to it, since I'm practically certain that Harry will defeat him. To me, Voldemort winning is just... not an option, I guess.

Though I'm sure some people would say that Harry dying would be a victory of sorts for Voldemort, which I'm going to have to preemptively agree to disagree with ^_^ I do however wonder why I can't stay out of threads I ban myself from... *runs away*

Schlubalybub June 4th, 2007 4:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by snowyowl101 (Post 4545812)
i think he will... but i also think LV will 2!!! yea yea i know it defeats the purpose but still it would through a weird twist... dont ya think...

Hardly...a lot of people also think so- it would make the most sense in my opinion because the way I see it, Voldemort has to die because good must prevail, but Harry also has to die because it would be quite cheesy to have Harry wander off into the sunset with Ginny...

Also, I'm sorry but we don't allow "text typing" here, as there are a lot of people here whose first language isn't English :)

rennedal June 4th, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Everyone seems to think that Harry might die in Book Seven. Where have we all gotten this idea from? Is it normal for fans to read a book and to worry if the Hero will live or not? I personaly think that he will live, but that upon destroying the Scar Horcrux (cray idea huh?) He will be free at last from his scar and He who must not be named.

Schlubalybub June 4th, 2007 6:49 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
We have this idea because it is totally possible. It is just as possible for Harry to die as Voldemort.

And no, it's not normal for fans to worry whether the hero will die or not, but this isn't a normal series of books. Remember, Sherlock Holmes died even though he was the hero...JK Rowling even mentioned this in an interview with Richard and Judy on UK television last year (I think) and in this interview she mentioned that Harry COULD die, but she wasn't saying whether he would or not, obviously

flipgirl21 June 5th, 2007 12:19 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Soledad O'Brien: I'm going to pose the final question to you and I'd like all three of you to take a stab at it. You can do it in any order that you would like. If you were to have dinner with any five characters from any of your books -- take a moment to think about it -- who would you invite, and why would they be on your list? Any order.
JK Rowling: Well I'd take Harry, to apologize to him (crowd laughs). Um, I'd have to take Harry, Ron and Hermione.
Stephen King: Sure.
JK Rowling: I would - this is - (crown shouts suggestions).
Stephen King: Hagrid, take Hagrid.
JK Rowling: See, I know who's actually dead.
Stephen King: Pretend you can take them anyways.
JK Rowling: Pretend I can take anyone? Well then I would definitely take Dumbledore. I'd take Dumbledore, Harry, Ron, Hermione...and.. (crowd shouts characters) um, Hagrid. I'd take Hagrid, yeah. And Owen because he wouldn't take up much space (crowd laughs). "

Well, in that she says I know who's dead and he said pretend you can take them anyways. So, dumbledore is her answer. So maybe he's not going to die. Well, then again she can't spoil...I mean she's pleaded for peeps not to spoil.

But also, she might want him to die so when she does die :( no one can really take on the series because he's dead unless they like, used another character and blahdey blah blah....but she might not want to cos she'll get fanmail, bad, mean, unhappy fanmail. So, whatever one she chooses will be her destiny. *angels sing*. Sorry... :rotfl:

scienceofsleep June 5th, 2007 12:28 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
recently since HP7's been coming up lately ive been asking around to see if people think like the topic if he'll survive, and im surprised that more people said that he'd die in book 7. i know its noble and what not, but isnt the point of the series to sort of see harry suceed, defeat lord voldemort and finally live the life he pretty much deserves?. just asking how many people are with me, i totaly think harry will live through the war.

Chrido June 5th, 2007 2:05 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

My theory is that Harry will go into the veil with Voldemort, but he will return
I totally agree. I think that at last that will make the difference: Harry, who is not fearing death will meet his parents, Sirius, Dumbledore, Cedric and will decide not to stay with all them he loves. Voldemort, who fears death, will face eternity and have the desire to die. But he won´t be able to. I would like this sort of ending because I agree with Dumbledore that there are many things worse than death.

inkling7 June 5th, 2007 3:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes I suppose Harry could have one of those near-death experiences and pass into the after-life only to be told 'this is not yet your time - go back' etc and then go back. This could be acheived by both Harry and Voldemort going through the veil and only Harry being turned back as it was not yet his time?????

Lillbet June 6th, 2007 4:02 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4549249)
Yes I suppose Harry could have one of those near-death experiences and pass into the after-life only to be told 'this is not yet your time - go back' etc and then go back. This could be acheived by both Harry and Voldemort going through the veil and only Harry being turned back as it was not yet his time?????

Okay, but without anyone actually saying the "It's not your time yet" bit.

alyssareiner June 6th, 2007 4:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i really, really, really hope not. I would be hugely devasted and dissapointed if he did.

inkling7 June 6th, 2007 5:28 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I never mentioned anyone would SAY it's not his time but that it could happen somehow - like a rejection of admittance to a place indicating that his entry was refused for some reason (like not yet being his time). Just like the Chess pieces barred their way( in the Philosophers Stone book) without actually telling the trio they couldn't pass.

Hallows (Deathly or otherwise) don't necessarily speak. Actions speak louder than words.

lancane June 6th, 2007 10:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4551246)
Okay, but without anyone actually saying the "It's not your time yet" bit.

I do not think it would really upsurp the messages given so far - in GOF, Harry's Parents came to his aid, in a way. Everyone seems to be rallying to stop his death and push his success, in some form. However, the point is that I could see DD, Sirius and his parents saying it is not your time, or go back...you do not belong here.

I think the whole transgressiveness of the series is that love and good conquers all, Harry dying in order to succeed would be only half of that, and would be pointless - but going to face death and returning because of love crosses both of those bridges...I mean what idiot parent wants their kid to die for a noble cause? Ask the parents whom have lost their kids to the war, if they think it is noble? You may not like the answer, but truth is there is no honor in death - no matter the cause, but to love another, there is honor - that may be why the word shows up more times then not in wedding vows!

Burtn83 June 7th, 2007 3:47 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I doubt it.

I know J.K.R. has not hesitated in killing off beloved characters, but I just cant see her killing Harry.

rogues311 June 7th, 2007 4:14 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If at all Harry does die, he should go down in style. meaning there should be a huge battle scene where everyones involved and voldemort just happens to get the better of him. i'd like to think not, but if not harry then who?? (theoretically speaking)

DADAteacher June 7th, 2007 6:07 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4547999)
recently since HP7's been coming up lately ive been asking around to see if people think like the topic if he'll survive, and im surprised that more people said that he'd die in book 7. i know its noble and what not, but isnt the point of the series to sort of see harry suceed, defeat lord voldemort and finally live the life he pretty much deserves?. just asking how many people are with me, i totaly think harry will live through the war.

I do think Harry will survive - I totally agree - Harry is the guy you want to win because he has always got the crappy end of the stick.

I think that Harry survives and he wont be unscathed - he will suffer loss and disappointment again but he will be victorious against Voldemort.

Philosophically speaking, one of the lessons we see over and over again in great epics is the triumph of good over evil although it may appear that evil is temporarily winning - like the phase: evil is winning the battles but losing the war. My other point is it is too easy for Harry to sacrifice himself as the Hero - wouldnt it be a bit more realistic that at the end Harry has to pick himself up, dust himself off and continue on living - persevering?

I've ranted enough...I with you!!!

Amidala June 7th, 2007 12:02 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
hm, I always thought it a good possibility that harry might die.
What really bugs me is the thought, that JKR doesnt do it because the books have become such a huge success and she kinda has to make ammendmends.
I would really hate that, because I want to read the story the way she planned it from the start. Is there a thread about this?

Spritey June 7th, 2007 9:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amidala (Post 4552909)
hm, I always thought it a good possibility that harry might die.
What really bugs me is the thought, that JKR doesnt do it because the books have become such a huge success and she kinda has to make ammendmends.
I would really hate that, because I want to read the story the way she planned it from the start. Is there a thread about this?

Every quote I've read from Jo has convinced me that she wouldn't do that (and I kind of wish Richard and Judy had never even mentioned the Sherlock Holmes thing, seeing as it gets misinterpreted so frequently.) Accio-Quote is an archive of nearly all of her interviews; I don't have time to collect quotes now, but if you browse around you should come across some of the interviews I did.

Edit: Here's the full text of the Sherlock Holmes thing, for those who wonder what the hell I'm going on about:

JKR 2006 Interview with Richard and JudyRichard: I was dodging around the death bit, because I know you can't answer that question, But you know how Conan-Doyle got sick up to there of Sherlock Holmes ...

Jo: I've never been tempted to kill him off before the end of book 7. I have always planned seven books and that is where I want to go, where I want to finish on seven books. But I can completely understand the mentality of an author who thinks "Well I am going to kill them off because that means there can be no non-author written sequels as they call them, so it will end with me and after I am dead and gone" - they would be able to bring back the character and write a load of ...


She understands it, but that doesn't mean she's going to do it :) And sorry, I think I ended up replying to two unrelated issues there... oh well.

sweets7 June 8th, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm ambivalent about the issue to be honest.

I don't want Harry to die, heck I'd be upset if anyone but Voldemort, Bellatrix and Wormtail died. However I think if he does I will be somewhat prepared.

JKR was a classics student and in mythology the hero always dies and that sticks in my mind.

If he lives there can't be a sugary sweet ending however, somehow that wouldn't seem right.

Beyond my concern for Harry however is my hope that the Harry Potter books will go out in a blaze of glory. I very much hope that this last book secures its place as a literary great, when all the hype has ended. This I very much hope, even above my desire for a favourable outcome for individual characters

inkling7 June 8th, 2007 5:19 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well let's hope what we have just read above is correct as this wil mean that Harry lives and fulfills some sort of life,,,,,,

Ronny June 8th, 2007 5:57 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry will not die but he will not live happily. Dumbledore is dead, Sirius is dead and killing Voldermort can't bring back his parents. Ultimately it is all futile, all his suffering cannot destroy the ideals of blood purity which people will always cling on to. Will Harry's victory get rid of elitism or Ministry corruption? Nope. It's all in vain, he can win for a day but new injustices will always be waiting for him in the morning.

inkling7 June 8th, 2007 7:28 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Actually that is an entirely sentnment regarding Harry's future life. but the question is - does Jo have this same line of thinking????

Johnvmaster June 8th, 2007 11:01 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think in the end, he will have to sacrifice himself to destroy Lord Voldemort once and for all.

scienceofsleep June 9th, 2007 12:30 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
if my memory is correct most of the things that happen in the books involve harry physically being in the scene or imagining it. even at the begining of goblet, the voldemort and pettigrew scene at the riddle house harry was there in essence because he was 'dreaming' about it. The only only part that i seem to recall harry wasnt a part of was the begining of HBP with the muggle minister, fudge and the new minister of magic.

Let me get to the whole harry dying or not debate. what im saying is, i know JKR wont have the last chapter of book 7 be the big climax. harry and voldemorts battle will be oone of the last chapters yes but definitley not the last one. im a strong beleiver that harry will surivive the war, and i have lots of reasons to support it, this is a new 'technical' sort of reason i thought up. JKR needs to write the last chapter of harry potter, and i dont think she can write a chapter if harry isnt in it or physically alive at the time, unless she's going to try and pull off some sort of 'epilogue' thing explaining how harry's LEGACY lives on or some rubbish like that.
does anyone know what im getting at?

Spritey June 9th, 2007 12:49 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4556992)
if my memory is correct most of the things that happen in the books involve harry physically being in the scene or imagining it. even at the begining of goblet, the voldemort and pettigrew scene at the riddle house harry was there in essence because he was 'dreaming' about it. The only only part that i seem to recall harry wasnt a part of was the begining of HBP with the muggle minister, fudge and the new minister of magic.

Let me get to the whole harry dying or not debate. what im saying is, i know JKR wont have the last chapter of book 7 be the big climax. harry and voldemorts battle will be oone of the last chapters yes but definitley not the last one. im a strong beleiver that harry will surivive the war, and i have lots of reasons to support it, this is a new 'technical' sort of reason i thought up. JKR needs to write the last chapter of harry potter, and i dont think she can write a chapter if harry isnt in it or physically alive at the time, unless she's going to try and pull off some sort of 'epilogue' thing explaining how harry's LEGACY lives on or some rubbish like that.
does anyone know what im getting at?

I know what you're getting at. I disagree, though :D I think it's perfectly plausible that Harry will continue narrating if he dies - this is fiction, after all, Jo could write anything. I think if he dies, we'll go with him.

Either that or Ron narrates, I guess, like he did at the beginning of PS in the trio's first fight as a team (against the troll).

(P.S., Actually, I get the impression we're not in Harry's PoV properly, but I am a literary idiot and so someone smarter than I will need to explain that.)

lancane June 9th, 2007 1:08 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Sorry, but am I the only one, or so it seems that feels this a tad bit morbid?

If Harry does die, Rowling will be faced with a terrible dilemma -- the fans, while I see that many on here are stating it is noble, fact is there is nothing noble about death, nobility is upon one's actions in life, and I might say different if Harry was 32 and not barely a man, as he is...it is almost sickening that the following generations are enticed with death. Much like the Romans, Trojans and Spartans: Where the toll did not matter, only the result -- by blade or by spears' splinter though shall die for glory; for it was and is nonsense. We tell our children that they should enjoy childhood, for life is hard enough; where as Harry had not, and now we expect him to sacrifice himself for others...but the those he loves are fastly dying or are dead, so is it justified to send him to his death and never really live? - Why don't we just strap a bomb on Harry and have him go to Voldemort's lair as a suicide bomber and justify the way the Al Queida fights?

I feel that while he wishes to save others makes him noble, his death would be pathetic, not in terms of a storyline, but the rich fame of his story; voted the most famous hero in literature and a billion-dollar franchise that follows his tale, would then be stained; why? Because we tell our children...young or old, to struggle on, life is hard but if you make the sacrifices needed you will have a bountiful life; where that is a miss for Harry: Lose all those you love, or near it, deal with struggle, strife and pain of being a target -- you are born only to serve wizard and mankind and truly deserve nothing yourself! Almost sounds like the Vietnam slogan we American's should have adopted in that time period.

Let alone he is but a boy, and the book will sell, because it already has in pre-sales alone, the movie would likely be nowhere near the others - even HBP the film may take a hit; Christian family's will be enraged, children will cry and much more...I just do not see Rowling doing this and in turn spreading ill-conceptive babble that underminds the society we wish or strive to have, no matter the misgivings of the few.

I just can not see her killing Harry, who is near a child to her and saying to everyone...here is nobility in death, sacrifice and pain is but a road to death, you may suffer and in the end your life is cost and one should have no such thing or happiness in the end, just die and make it count!

:no:

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 1:23 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I do not see these reasons preventing her from killing Harry to be honest. She decided many years ago what his fate would be and that has in all likelihood remained unchanged.

A lot of people have commented to me in recent months about why she would kill Harry that it is too harsh, too cruel for a children’s book, but I disagree. Because of these comments i recently had a look at one of my favourite childhood series of books the: 'Anne of Green Gables' series. from a quick glance of these books I counted four significant deaths. I was, as many are when they read these books, very young, nine or ten during my first read. None really upset me that much with the exception of one.

My point is that even young children can handle these things. Death is as much a part of life as love and your choices and in my opinion these are the biggest themes of the books.

All this being said, if the books end brilliantly, and Harry is still alive I will be a happy bunny. I just do not see such considerations as you mentioned entering JKR head. She will and has indeed written what she thinks is the most appropriate ending to the series.

Spritey June 9th, 2007 3:25 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lancane (Post 4557047)
Sorry, but am I the only one, or so it seems that feels this a tad bit morbid?

If Harry does die, Rowling will be faced with a terrible dilemma -- the fans, while I see that many on here are stating it is noble, fact is there is nothing noble about death, nobility is upon one's actions in life...

The Secret Riddle, HBP"My mother can't have been magic, or she wouldn't have died..." said Riddle, more to himself than Dumbledore.


A Sluggish Memory, HBP[Dumbledore]"... and began his [Voldemort's] investigations into his previously despised mother's family - the woman who, you will remember, he had thought could not be a witch if she had succumbed to the shameful human weakness of death."


Horcruxes, HBPBut he understood at last what Dumbledore was trying to tell him. It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. Some people, perhaps, would say there was little to choose between the two ways, but Dumbledore knew - and so do I, thought Harry, with a rush of fierce pride, and so did my parents - that there was all the difference in the world.


Lily Potter also wishes she didn't get forgotten so much D: Honestly, you die for people, and what do you get? Seriously, though, it's actually interesting to note (to me, at least, because I am a geek) that some of Jo's strongest characters have died. I wonder what that's trying to say?

Quote:

I feel that while he wishes to save others makes him noble, his death would be pathetic, not in terms of a storyline, but the rich fame of his story; voted the most famous hero in literature and a billion-dollar franchise that follows his tale, would then be stained; why? Because we tell our children...young or old, to struggle on, life is hard but if you make the sacrifices needed you will have a bountiful life; where that is a miss for Harry: Lose all those you love, or near it, deal with struggle, strife and pain of being a target -- you are born only to serve wizard and mankind and truly deserve nothing yourself!
I really disagree. To reduce Harry's story to that is to write off Ron and Hermione, Sirius, his parents, Dumbledore, the Weasleys - in short, everything that he's fighting for. It's also writing off everything we've been with him through (the good and the bad - please don't forget the good, people do that way too often. Harry doesn't like tiny violins, know what I mean?), in favour of a future we're most likely not going to read.

Quote:

Let alone he is but a boy, and the book will sell, because it already has in pre-sales alone, the movie would likely be nowhere near the others - even HBP the film may take a hit; Christian family's will be enraged, children will cry and much more...I just do not see Rowling doing this and in turn spreading ill-conceptive babble that underminds the society we wish or strive to have, no matter the misgivings of the few.
Well, Harry Potter is a book. It really has very little bearing on society. And I'm going to have to go now, my elbow is bleeding... oh dear :rolleyes:

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7
All this being said, if the books end brilliantly, and Harry is still alive I will be a happy bunny. I just do not see such considerations as you mentioned entering JKR head. She will and has indeed written what she thinks is the most appropriate ending to the series.

Complete and utter agreement from me. She'll do what her story calls for.

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 3:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4557082)
Well, Harry Potter is a book. It really has very little bearing on society. And I'm going to have to go now, my elbow is bleeding... oh dear

I agree, I think that sometimes we forget this fact. I sometimes even discuss the characters like their real. The books have achieved a fame and worldwide reputation that may never be seen with regards a book again.

It will however, in a hundred years stand beyond this fame as a work of literature, and will be judged as such. I agree that a book of fiction cannot effect society in such a way.

The idea of the epilogue if Harry dies is easy enough to deal with. The epilogue could take the form of letters between characters, an article, it could perhaps be told in a third person omnipotent viewpoint. The epilogues most important job will be to serve as plot exposition for the surviving characters future lifes. Knowing how JKR writes, whether Harry lives or dies this will be imaginative, clever and amusingly done.

Spritey June 9th, 2007 3:48 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4557099)
I agree, I think that sometimes we forget this fact. I sometimes even discuss the characters like their real. The books have achieved a fame and worldwide reputation that may never be seen with regards a book again.

It will however, in a hundred years stand beyond this fame as a work of literature, and will be judged as such. I agree that a book of fiction cannot effect society in such away.

Mmhmm, I do that all the time - I can't tell you how often I've had to step back and say, "Wait, perspective, stat!" :D And Harry Potter has been very important to a lot of people, me included (I really can't say how much, because it'll sound like a huge dorky cliche, honestly)... but I guess we're a very small percentage of the population, really. The online fandom, as big as it is, is kinda tiny when compared with the real world. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter, it's just that we've got to keep that in mind, I suppose. *nods* Perspective, like I said. Yes. Indeed.

*goes back to writing fanfiction at two in the morning*

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I know what you mean. The books have been a source of comfort to me during very dark times and will always mean a tremendous amount (not to be too dramatic or anything).

sparkly June 9th, 2007 2:52 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4553673)
Every quote I've read from Jo has convinced me that she wouldn't do that (and I kind of wish Richard and Judy had never even mentioned the Sherlock Holmes thing, seeing as it gets misinterpreted so frequently.) Accio-Quote is an archive of nearly all of her interviews; I don't have time to collect quotes now, but if you browse around you should come across some of the interviews I did.

Edit: Here's the full text of the Sherlock Holmes thing, for those who wonder what the hell I'm going on about:

JKR 2006 Interview with Richard and JudyRichard: I was dodging around the death bit, because I know you can't answer that question, But you know how Conan-Doyle got sick up to there of Sherlock Holmes ...

Jo: I've never been tempted to kill him off before the end of book 7. I have always planned seven books and that is where I want to go, where I want to finish on seven books. But I can completely understand the mentality of an author who thinks "Well I am going to kill them off because that means there can be no non-author written sequels as they call them, so it will end with me and after I am dead and gone" - they would be able to bring back the character and write a load of ...


She understands it, but that doesn't mean she's going to do it :) And sorry, I think I ended up replying to two unrelated issues there... oh well.

It's been a while since I've read the original quote and I see it now in an entirely different light.

Jo was not talking about the fact that Conan Doyle killed Holmes at all. She was contrasting Conan Doyle's decision to kill his character before the series had ended because he had become tired of writing Holmes, and she was saying she had always planned just the seven books and was never tempted to do the same to Harry. She never felt the same as Conan Doyle although she can understand why someone else might be tempted.

A key difference is that Conan Doyle did not have a plan for his Holmes series - it started as a series in a newspaper and was only published as a book later. He just started writing - the stories became popular, and he tired of them. Jo, on the other hand, had always planned seven books and had a definite end to the series when she started (the famous last chapter). Conan Doyle did what he did because he didn't have an alternative.

If we are to carry the Holmes analogy to its conclusion, it's impossible to use Conan Doyle's decision in what would become the middle of the series to extrapolate that Jo will kill Harry. After Conan Doyle resurrected Holmes, he ended the series by having Holmes retire to the country and keep bees (in fact, there are Holmes fans who believe he's still there!).

Ronny June 9th, 2007 4:51 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
But if Harry lives what will his victory be? Until the day he lies old and dying he will have no peace. Killing Voldemort does not kill those who loved him and they will target Potter, they will hound him and his friends until he's dead. And so a young man who just wants to live his life will also need to cope with the celebrity his inevitable victory will bring. What kind of life is that? All those who could have steered him down the right path are gone.

drummer June 9th, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No, I don't believe can die.


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