Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Perhaps, in order to kill Voldemort, Harry must also die. And perhaps it is JKR's favorite book because Harry's death is as it should be.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I really don't think after all Harry has been through that JKR will top it off with his death.
P.S. I am going to have to put a rubber band around the back of the book so I don't look.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I know what you mean! Another thread was talking about "I Trust Snape" t-shirts, and, while I believe Snape is good, I don't know if I'd want to buy the t-shirt, just in case I'm wrong.

I don't think Harry will die, but I'm not buying the t-shirt. ;)

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Buy it anyway! If Snape is good, you can prove you were right all along, and if he's bad, those T-shirts will be collectors' items! ;)

I would buy a "The Boy Who Lived" T-shirt. We know he lived - it says so in the first chapter of PS! :D

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Harry's gonna die...:(

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I guess... But still if Harry kills Voldemort (he probly will) wont death eaters and voldemorts minions not rest until he dies???

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

No - they'll be defeated, rounded up, and put in Azkaban, or just slink away quietly and get menial jobs in the Muggle Liaison Office!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Personally, I want and possibly think that both Harry and Voldemort will die because this will:

1.Stop other writers from continuing the HP series.
2.Provide a good ending.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Something that Remus said in POA has always indicated to me that Harry will live:

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, Chapter Fourteen, Snape's Grudge “We've met,” he said shortly. He was looking at Harry more seriously than ever before. “Don't expect me to cover up for you again, Harry. I cannot make you take Sirius Black seriously. But I would have thought that what you have heard when the dementors draw near you would have had more of an effect on you. Your parents gave their lives to keep you alive, Harry. A poor way to repay them–gambling their sacrifice for a bag of magic tricks.”

Bold mine. Harry's parents died so that Harry could live. I don't think JKR would then turn around and kill Harry. Harry's death would diminish the sacrifice that his parents made and I can't see JKR doing that after their sacrifice is such an important part of the first six books.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

yes yes! harry will die! i have a theory.

theory:
harry will die sving ginny. voldie, looks for the last time at harry's eyes, and is reminded of lily, and what she had done to save her son. this is his last chance for redemption, but he still chooses to kill harry. so he finally kills harry. harry dies, leaving ginny with a protection similar to what lily left for harry. then voldie turns to kill ginny and then his wand backfires.

i think it is rather interesting since it mirrors harry's strenght and voldie's weakness - love. cnat imagine harry killing (even voldie), but can imagine him loving. perhaps that is why dumbledore did not even teach harry the killing curse in the first place. knew he wouldnt stand a chance. but if harry uses love, then he would stand a tough chance against voldie. cant imagine voldie loving, but can easily imagine him killing.

however, i realized there was a flaw in my theory.
1. you need to be a blood relative so that you can give protection
2. voldie should never have intended to kill harry in the first place

i think voldie will become aware that harry is the sixth horcrux. maybe also, there will be a prophecy that if voldie wins harry over, he will become more powerful than ever. but if voldie does not win him over, he will be defeated.

so voldie will not want to kill harry, and he will try to win him over. but harry does not want, and refuses to hand over the one whom he is trying to protect (whom i first thought was ginny, but if you had to be blood relatives, perhaps, dudley or petunia? maybe they will patch up in the 7th book). and so voldie gets mad and kills harry, forgetting that he destroyed his last horcrux before his body. and harry died protecting the one he loved, because he refused to stand aside. and so he leaves dudley or petunia with a protection. then voldie kills that person, and his wand backfires. poof! dead ball!

so both voldie and harry die. but harry dies a hero. voldie dies, and he cant come back as a ghost because while ghosts have whole souls, voldie has a seventh of a soul.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I don't think Harry will die.I agree that Ginny gives him hope and purpose to live after he has accomplished his mission to kill LV.But its not only Ginny.In fact its ron and hermione who will give him a purpose along with ginny.
I don't htink JKR needs to kill Harry to close the series for other authors.The series and the characters are hers forever.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I really hope Harry won't die:td: but I'm 99,999999 % sure that if he does he won't go solo :evil:

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I'm not sure if I would like him to die. I mean, that is one way to end the series properly but then...what if JK let him live and twisted the end in some way?

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree with you!!!!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

My idea is that harry will sustain an injury that nothing can cure, not even fawkes, but before he dies a hero's death, he will kill voldemort and perhaps some of his followers. Then after everyone knows that it's a victory for the world, he will die in ginny's arms

or something like that!!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I dont think he'll die. In the words of Trelawney, he'll live to an old age and have lots of children. :)

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

That would be really horrible if he died in the last book but there was a quote somewhere from JKR saying how she can understand how some authors kill off the main character in the end of a series so that when they're dead and gone no other author can come and continue the series...but then I've read quite a few time that its been heavily implied that he's not going to die...I really just don't know. I hope he doesn't die!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

yeah, i think that we all don't want him to die, but that might be part of a plot twist. He could die after the 'final fight', but he might live on.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

i agree and FANTASTIC IDEA!!!i should do that with my book.

he lives. "the boy who LIVES"!!! perfect foreshadowing, that the first chapter be called that.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

of caurse he won't die because that will mean Voldemort will live and Rowling will never allow that to happen
neither can live while the other survives

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I was re-reading PoA again and realised that in Diviniation Trelewney(sp?) keeps forshadowing Harry's death.

Could it be possible that her predictions of Harry's death could actually be true but instead of dieing in PoA Harry will die in DH.

She has gotten a few important things right in the past!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Trelawney is never right except when she makes a prediction whitout her knowing what she said,when she goes in a sort of trance and speeks with that odd voice

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I know that I'm in the minority, but again, I believe that Harry will sacrifice himself to kill Voldemort. Who says that Harry dying still can't make for a happy ending? What I really want to see is Harry being reunited with his parents, Sirius, and Dumbledore. It could be a very inspirational ending. Even though Jo said that the last word will probably be scar, I would love to see a repeat of the tribute,

To Harry Potter, the boy who lived, past tense. The book won't achieve enough emotional value for me if Harry survives. In some ways, it would ruin the most amazing literary work of its time by creating a shallow ending where Harry and Ginny get married and have many children. Even if your view is completely different than mine, will you just think about it in this way for a while? Please?

As a final thought, we are forgetting Dumbledore when he so rightfully says, "death is but the next great adventure."

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

But Harry said in book six that Sirius would want him to live his life and not brood over losing him, and Dumbledore praised Harry when he said that. Dumbledore was not talking about Harry but himself when he said death was the next great adventure. JKR has clearly indicated that Harry has moved past mourning the death of his parents and Sirius, and there's no indication that he wants to rejoin them. In fact, JKR has written Harry so he's got more reason to live than to die. He's building a relationship with Ginny and looking forward to a future without Voldermort. Harry won't be killing Voldermort merely to avenge his parents and Sirius but to eliminate him from the world that Harry wants to live in.

Dumbledore and Harry weren't really that close for Harry to mourn him in the same way he would his parents or his godfather. Harry regarded Dumbledore as a mentor, but not as a parent. Of course he will be saddened by his death, but Harry will never miss Dumbledore so much he would want to die in order to be reunited with him.

I'm sorry you've already closed your mind to an ending other than what you described. I can see many ways the book can end well with Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione still alive. Death would be the easy way out for JKR, IMO, because then the characters have no responsibility for the world that remains after Voldermort is gone. The wizarding world will need a lot of rebuilding and they will need strong wizards and witches to do that.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

How would this be a shallow ending? Harry is willing to give up his own life for the lives of those he loves - to me, whether or not he has to do it is not significant.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I'm just saying that it wouldn't be very original, and not as emotionally powerful, either. But these are only my opinions. Please stop attacking me! I'm very alone in these views, and I'm merely stating them! :sigh:

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Further on in PoA at the christmas lunch when she arrives late and at first refused saying that the 1st to stand woul die We are not told who gets up fist, it could have easily been Dumbledore. -PoA 170 uk

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

No one's attacking you, they're just disagreeing. Many of us look for evidence in the books for what will happen regardless of their personal opinion. I find a lot of evidence in the books that Harry will live.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I don't really have any specific evidence as to why I think Harry will die in DH, but I don't think that this is one of those instances when that kind of evidence can be used. It's more from a literary standpoint than anything else.

I just want people to think more about my theories than to just look at the straight evidence and shoot it down right away. :)

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

actually, ron and harry get up at the same time!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I think no one can know for sure, obviously. The evidence may be there, but what if she throws a curveball to defy all logic? It's her story, she can do what she likes.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

that is indeed an option but Rowling is a very logical wrighter ,I ve never got the feeling while reading her books that things made a sudden curveball except with Snape and in a way I could see it comming after trelawney made her last prediction in book 6

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

:huh: Uhm.. doesn't this just mean that they both can't live, not that they both can't die. I.e., they can both be dead, but not both be alive.

I think Harry's going to die killing LV. E.g., Harry pulls LV through the curtain with him or something like that, so they die together.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

It could happen. I just believe that Jo loves Harry too much to do it.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

It is true, but honestly - she is a billionaire, people. Money talks but not for her, it seems. I honestly appreciate her and her amazing work.
At the end of the day, she has a family to raise.

Keeping Harry alive does three things:
1 ) Upsets me!
2 ) Means a bunch of rabid little fangirls/boys will never, ever stop complaining about how they want another book.
3 ) And finally, gives her a boring, cliche look to her books: blah blah, lucky magical kid lives and the bad guy dies, *yawn*; can we move onto better series?


If she kills him, it's the amazingly spectacular ending that people will remember FOREVER.
Believe me - as an avid writer, I know the amount of detail you can put into murdering a main character. Everyone feels sad and sure, you get hated for killing him, but Jo dear: isn't it time to enjoy your 6 [7? 8?] billion?

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

:err:

I think any way she ends it will be amazing.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Not for me.
In 5 years, I would forget the ending.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Honestly, Harry’s death is not something I can imagine… If it happens, though, I’m sure it will be a great ending.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

As a writer you should know that it's more difficult to finish a book well on a happy note. It's easy to have a spectacular shocking ending, but that's not good writing, it's just surprising.

JKR outlined the entire series nearly fifteen years ago, several years before she even had a publisher. It's highly unlikely when she wrote the last chapter at that time (which she did do) thinking that she had to kill the hero just so that she wouldn't be bothered by requests for a sequel. If anything, she would yearn for that amount of attention.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I think that Harry will die.

I feel it is his destinty and that by ending LV's life he will end his own, i think he will find this out in the course of destroying the horcruxes.

I think from the start there have been signs that he will be the tragic hero.

I know that it will make me bawl my eyes out if he does but in a way it would be all noble and heroic and I love a good tragedy!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

just ask yourself? how many childrens books are there where the hero dies? you must remeber that children of 10,11,12 must be able to enjoy it too
I think it will be dramatic enough to let jet another friend of Harry die .

again: neither can live while the other survives
lets get our handy dictionary
survive–verb (used without object) 1. to remain alive after the death of someone, the cessation of something, or the occurrence of some event; continue to live: Few survived after the holocaust.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

While I respect the opinion that many people have expressed that Harry Potter is a children’s book and as such it would be inappropriate to kill the main character I have to say that I do feel that any suggestion that Killing Harry would cause children to not enjoy the book is doing children everywhere a huge disservice.

JKR shows throughout the series that some things are worth dying for. Lily dies for Harry and we see loads of examples of members of the Order who are killed or who die fighting Voldemort. One of the great tragedies of war is that it claims the lives of good and noble people, innocents like Cedric Diggory, people who have no choice but to become involved as well as fighters like the members of the Order.

We teach children as young as eight about the second world war, a conflict which cost countless lives and children are able to recognise the sacrifice made by those who died and to understand why they chose to fight (and yes I know that not all 2nd world war soldiers chose to be involved hence my point about innocents and those with no choice)

JKR is a good enough writer so show as she has done already that death, while tragic and needless in many cases is part of life and she sensitively handles each case, I do not think that if she chooses to kill Harry that she will handle it in such a way as to leave people upset without understanding the reasons and heroism behind the death as she has done with so many others.

Let us also not forget that she deals with some very touchy subjects which many children’s writers would shy away from and that this is one of the reasons why an adult audience can also appreciate the books on so many levels and why the intense and deep debate we are able to enjoy is possible.

I do not think that we can rule out Harry’s death merely because this is a children’s book.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I believe Harry will in fact die. Even though people have sacrificed their lives just so Harry could live, doesn't mean they wouldn't want him to show that same nobility and courage, to save those he loves. This would be selfish on their part, to expect him to protect his own life above all other cares.

I have read posts about Ginny being the completion in Harry's life, of how she is the key to a family and future for Harry after the battle. Harry has always been driven by courage, self-sacrifice, and some semblance of vengeance. I really can't see his character settling down with a family life, when there would still be evil in the world. Even with Voldemort gone, evil will still remain. I again would find it selfish on his part to just drop his defining characteristics to indulge in this kind of life, when there could potentially be others in the world suffering. If he chose to live out through both lives, marriage/family - noble crusading, wouldn't this in of itself also be selfish? He could not devote himself to one facet, without his other calling there in the background. It is selfish to put ones personal needs and desires above a greater good.

The characteristics that define Harry, position him to perform a noble sacrifice for wizardkind. It would be his defining moment and bring the story full circle. "The Boy Who Lived" , and yes he did live, probably better than most, through his own sense of perserverance, courage and nobility.

I would be saddened if he actually did make it through alive, it would destroy the theme JKR has created.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

But that's not what the book says. Remus tells Harry that his parents sacrificed their lives so he can live. If he can find a way to defeat Voldermort and still survive, that's what they would want. Of course Harry is willing to die to destroy Voldermort, but the prophecy strongly indicates that one of the two will survive. It's not going to be Voldermort, so the survivor will be Harry.

I don't see how Harry is selfish for living a normal life after Voldermort is gone, unless your envisioning him trying to alleviate other suffering in the world. However, there's been no indication in the books that Harry aspires to become some kind of Superman, unable to have a normal life because he's too busy fighting crime. Harry sees his family in the Mirror of Erised, not a world free of suffering, and there's been no indication in the books that Harry wants to become a type of caped crusader.

JKR has not written Harry as a superhero and it's highly doubtful he'll end up that way. Instead, she's repeatedly shown that Harry wants to be normal, that he dislikes the life he's been given, and he wants Voldermort gone because that's the one thing preventing him, Harry, from being normal. She's transitioned Harry from looking back to what he's lost to looking forward to what he can have, and I can't see her taking away his deepest desire so he can save the world.

I don't think that's a realistic perspective on the Harry that JKR has created, and I don't think she's developed sacrifice for the sake of wizardkind as a primary theme. Harry's parents died protecting their son because they loved him. Sirius died because he was reckless. We're not sure why Dumbledore died - there's a bunch of possible reasons, but he didn't die as a sacrifice.

JKR is developing the theme that love is the most powerful weapon that can be used against evil, and Harry dying doesn't advance that theme. He is the product of love, and he needs to use the love he feels for others and others feel for him to destroy Voldermort. If Harry were to die, the theme she's developing would be diminished.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

As is commonly known to every Harry Potter fan, one or more of the main characters is going to die in the seventh novel of the series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows. There are many people who claim that Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort are the only two logical deaths that would occur in book seven, however, I only agree with half of this prediction. Lord Voldemort is sure to die and the reason I think this is because J.K. Rowling has followed the traditional themes of literature since the very first book. If J.K. Rowling is to continue following these traditional themes of literature, I think it is dafe to say that the vil villain has to die. The protagonist of the story cannot possibly perish. Another character that I think will die is Hagrid. Hagrid has been one of the main characters in the Harry Potter series since Sorcerer’s Stone and extremely essential to the storyline; therefore, I think that Hagrid will most likely die while aiding the Order of the Phoenix. I think that another character that will die, though less essential, will be Lupin. He was Sirius’ and James’ best friend and since James and Sirius are already dead, I think it is only logical that Lupin will also probably die.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Yes, well done. I agree.

I do not see how JKR could kill off "the boy who lived". It just doesn't work. There is no way Valdemort wins in the end (evil triumphs over good???). And, it is too miserable an ending for Harry to have lived a life of abuse and neglect only to have it end in death for him.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Quite simply - no. I don't think JK will kill him off. Years from now everyone who reads the book would already know ahead of time that Harry gets killed in the end simply by seeing the movie. We don't know now because we're reading it in the making.

Who would kill a hero?

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I don't think that Harry will die in the final book, but I do believe that he will be greatly changed from this ordeal. As many characthers are. He has spent the better half of his life with this final confrontation always looming. Now that it will be complete his life/purpose will have completely changed, but I think he will do well in the fact of just being a loving friend, husband and father. (Prehaps he will follow in Mr. Weasly's steps)

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Actually, it just says that they both can't live at the same time, not that one of them has to survive. And you're forgetting on crucial conversation between Dumbledore and Harry in The Half-Blood Prince:

"But, sir, it all comes to the same thing, doesn't it? I've got to try and kill him, or —" "Got to? Of course you've got to! But not because of the prophecy! Because you, yourself, will never rest until you've tried! We both know it! Imagine, please, just for a moment, that you had never heard that prophecy! How would you feel about Voldemort now? Think!"

Harry watched Dumbledore striding up and down in front ol him, and thought. He thought of his mother, his father, and Sirius. He thought of Cedric Diggory. He thought of all the terrible deeds he knew Lord Voldemort had done. A flame seemed to leap inside his chest, searing his throat.

"I'd want him finished," said Harry quietly. "And I'd want to do it."
"Of course you would!" cried Dumbledore. "You see, the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything! But the prophecy caused Lord Voldemort to mark you as his equal. ... In other words, you are free to choose your way, quite free to turn your back on the prophecy! But Voldemort continues to set
store by the prophecy. He will continue to hunt you . . . which makes it certain, really, that —"

"That one of us is going to end up killing the other," said Harry. "Yes."

I always though Harry would die...of course, I don't want that to happen, but you have to understand that the prophecy does not say that one of them has to LIVE, but that one of them has to DIE. So basically, there are 3 possible endings:
1) Harry kills Voldy and lives happily ever after. - I don't see this happening. JKR said that she would kill off one of the main characters in the novel. Frankly, I don't see Ron or Hermione dying. And this is the last book...the story will have to end. If Harry lives, she can't really end it, because people will want info on what happens next, how does Harry live and so one. The thing I'll say next, I won't say to defend my theory or whatever, it's just a side note: People WILL try to make money on Harry Potter after the last book. Some wannabe writers WILL try to continue the story so crazed Potter fans would buy them like mad and read them.

2) Voldy kills Harry and rules the world - I don't have to say much here, do I? This would just be plain retarded... All the struggle through 7 books just so Voldy would win in the end...

3) Harry and Voldy kill each other in the final battle - Now, this one I strongly believe in. In the end of the final battle, they kill each other off with one final course. I won't say Avada Kedavra, I doubt that Harry would use that. Anyways, Harry rids the world of Voldys evil, and Voldy, by killing Harry, turns him into a hero that will be remembered trough history as the one who gave his life to kill the most powerful dark wizard of all times. That way, his name forever stays in the wizarding world, where he really belongs, and ends the series for sure.

I don't want the third option to come true, I think no-one does, but I just find that theory the most plausible. Of course, this is only my opinion...I might be tragically wrong :D

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You mention Cedric, whom I enjoyed as a character,however, I was not as attached to him as I was Dumbledore. I guess that I have to agree that JKR handled it well and there was really no reason why she wouldn't have. I think the these books have done a lot to teach young people about loyalty and trust and what you do for your friends. When so much in the world does not. However

Unless a child is born and lives in a country torn by war or has a parent who is overseas at this time do you really think they "understand" the premise? When children learn about WWII, or for that matter any war, they are learning about places they have never been and people they have never known. History is a story to kids and kids love stories and they relate to them even if they don't have personal experience. But the stories they read in History class are short and they don't become attached to the "characters". They also get good marks if they remember the players.

I think war is, to them, something on their Play Station II, a movie, or television news (and that often looks like a PSII game too). I know that my eight year old grandson has not attained the concept that you seem to be alluding to. And I know he would not understand why Harry Potter "The Good Guy" lost and Voldemort "The Bad Guy" walked away.

Although I can sorta kinda see where your coming from we aren't reading Dostoyevsky,Tolstoy,Chekhov or even Beowulf. This is JK Rowling and even though I believe that her books will be classics I hope they aren't meant to be a socio/pyscho treatise on the hopelessness of good fighting evil. Because a lot of her young audience will not get it and will probably feel betrayed. I cannot see what the point of a seven volume series about the "boy who didn't die" and continually fought to live would make if she clocked him in the end.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle went through much the same agony trying to rid himself of Sherlock Holmes. Something tells me that JK Rowling has a lot more backbone than Doyle. (She has made a lot more money too. So she can let people whine for more Harry and still roll over and go back to a well earned nap)

As far as anyone writing anything even closely related to her books they would have to have permission and I am betting she wouldn't give it. You cannot improve on the original and these books are some of the best in children's literature in a long time.

I see Harry as a good kid with a little "extra" and if anyone deserves a peaceful life it is Harry. He grew up in a nasty home environment and even though he loves Hogwarts it has been one crisis after another. I don't know if he dislikes everything about the life he has but it seems as though he would like to be a 'normal' wizard with a fairly quiet life. Whatever quiet life is to a Wizard.

I would hate to think that because this series ,in the end, appealed to adults capable of deeper thinking that JKR would feel obligated or swayed to write an ending that we could forever debate the depths of instead of sticking to what she started with. IMHO that would be the triumph of Good over Evil and I really don't think that she needs to rid herself of Harry to do it.

I would be thoroughly disgusted, I am sure she wouldn't care, and I would still be thoroughly disgusted.:grumble:

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The easy way is too die, IMHO. Like I posted before, Harry one lasting quality is his endless supply of courage, and the most couageous thing would be too live, move on beyond the death and ugliness that was been in his face since he was a year old.

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

I have been up and down the road on this one before. We can speculate all we want...Which is so much fun :p , but it could really go either way! (Which gets back to the fun part!!!)

I would LOVE to see him live, have a family with Ginny, do cool married couples friends things with Ron and Hermione, but if he has to die...I will have to grieve for him, and go through a mourning process the likes of which neither Dumbledore or Sirius have ever seen!!!!

BTW: I love your conversation between Bellatrix and Voldemort!!!

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 

Unless a child is born and lives in a country torn by war or has a parent who is overseas at this time do you really think they "understand" the premise? When children learn about WWII, or for that matter any war, they are learning about places they have never been and people they have never known. History is a story to kids and kids love stories and they relate to them even if they don't have personal experience. But the stories they read in History class are short and they don't become attached to the "characters". They also get good marks if they remember the players.

I think war is, to them, something on their Play Station II, a movie, or television news (and that often looks like a PSII game too). I know that my eight year old grandson has not attained the concept that you seem to be alluding to. And I know he would not understand why Harry Potter "The Good Guy" lost and Voldemort "The Bad Guy" walked away.



I am afraid I have to disagree with you. I am a primary school teacher (with terrible spelling i add!) and the kids I teach are always very moved by the lessons we do about the war. I think it depends on how you teach it and i think that there has to be an element of role play involved to really bring it home. I think a lot of kids can in some way identify with Harry and so were he to die they would feel it.

I am a firm believer that children can understand anything if it is explained to them properly and if as you say, a child is left puzzled, upset or confused by the ending then they will ask their parents who then have a wonderful opportunity to deepen their understanding. JKR has never dumbed down her langauge or style for children so why would she do it with her content?

I am not attacking you personally here and i respect what you are saying, you clearly have experience with children and I am in no way suggesting that my own views are better.

However, it annoys me when people "dumb down" for children or don't credit them with the ability to understand things simply because of their age. It varies wildly from child to child and surely it is always better to cater for those with a greater knowledge or understanding and assist the rest to reach that level with appropriate sensitivity and help, understanding limits but not blanket applying them to all?

This is probably very off topic, i apologise.

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I can't think of too many books in which the hero dies. In fact, I can't think of any, but if someone would like to list a few, I would like to see what they are about.

Anyway, it just wouldn't seem fair to have an orphan who slept in a closet for ten years, then spent his school years with the greatest Dark Wizard of his age trying to kill him, die at the end of the story. Harry needs to go on into adulthood. Someday he will have to help the next "Chosen One" defeat the next Dark Wizard that comes along. He has to be alive in order to be a mentor for that person. Because, as Dumbledore said, you can't eliminate evil.

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The Bible.

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Good one :lol: There are also a lot of stories about the lives of the saints that fit that definition, too.

I guess I should have been a little clearer. I don't know too many books in this genre in which the hero dies. I am not saying they aren't out there, because I know that they exist. I know that Sherlock Holmes is one of them. Any other ones?

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:lol: Oh but I agree with you. There is no doubt, whatsoever in my mind, that children and apparently adults of all ages identify with Harry and his friends and even his enemies. It is always dependent upon how things are presented and taught to children or adolescents as to whether or not they assimilate or identify with what they are presented with. And do so in a healthy way. My grandmother, 94 yrs old this spring, was a primary school teacher too, I have a great love for teacher-people. Her first love was first grade even though she had taught all grade levels. She is the one who read me all the classics (Alive, Willows, Poppins, you name it). I am sure that Harry would have been something she would have made sure that I grew up with if he had existed then.

Again I agree with you. Todays child is much more sophisticated than my generation's children were. However, I don't know if I think that is a good thing but there it is and it has to be dealt with accordingly and intelligently.

My grandson's concept of so much around him and his opinions are far older than his years. It is unfortunate that children are not allowed to remain children a little longer. The media and society in general have seen to that.

Thus, I do not understand why Harry Potter's death would be a fulfilling thing or a good thing. It has never seemed to me that that was the author's intention and yet many people here seem to think that is the only way the ending would make sense. I will have to begin paying attention to the age groups of the posters that feel that way. Sociologically I expect it would be interesting.

:lol: No worries. Never felt attacked by a good discussion.


Back on topic though...before the Unspeakables eat our eyeballs for lunch.

SusanBones111, like your name, doesn't make me as hungry as KidneyPie though.:drool:

I can think of one right off the top of my head right now but it would probably be a spoiler so I guess I shouldn't say it. But I agree with you there really aren't many out there. Even Dickens spent more time killing off peripheral characters than he did heroes.

I would be interested in knowing what JKR thinks of threads like these. Do you suppose she ever peeks?

In any case I do not believe that Harry dies in the Deathly Hallows. I do believe that he will be a very changed young man. I do believe I will lose Hagrid, and possibly one of the Weasleys and I have a feeling Snape will somehow redeem himself and do it by giving his life. Possibly Draco and I would even feel badly about that as he is a young person trying to gain the attention of a rather nasty parent. (Even though Lucius and I have the same hair)

I have an attachment to all the characters on some level whether good or bad and will feel badly for any of them being lost.

But not Voldemort. He is going down. And I will get up and do the Happy Dance when he does.

Voldemort dies in the Deathly Hallows, he has to, otherwise what possible sense does anything JKR has written make???

Good fights Evil and Evil wins?

One cannot live while the other survives. I can count to one. I see one person going down. And I do not think that Harry giving up his life in order to destroy Voldemort would be fulfilling the prophecy.

But I have been wrong before...I think it was September of 1974 but I have conveniently forgotten the date.

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[quote=SusanBones111;4372324]I can't think of too many books in which the hero dies. In fact, I can't think of any, but if someone would like to list a few, I would like to see what they are about.

Lord of the Rings (while not strictly a children's book)

Charlottes Web is another good example

The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe - although Aslan does come back to life

Little Women - i was read this as a child and so I think of it as a kiddie book

i think there must be more.

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Thanks for your response. I have only seen the Lord of the Rings movies, so I am not familiar with the books. I do know that Frodo survives the task of saving the ring.

I must be one of the few people who made it through childhood without reading Charlotte's Web. But you are right. I have heard that the hero dies in that one.

I am not sure which character compares to Harry in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

Beth dies in Little Women. I consider Jo to be the main character of that book. But yes, one of the "Little Women" dies. In fact, there are a lot of children's books with a death of a loved one in it. We have "The Little Princess" in which the father has died and the daughter is left penniless and at the mercy of the boarding school. Another book by the same author, "The Secret Garden", has an orphan and a child without a mother who has been ignored by the father.These stories are of children triumphing over adversity. I think Harry is similiar in this theme.

Thanks for the book list. Maybe I should read Charlotte's Web. I think one of the kids has left it on the bookshelf. :lol:

I wonder if the prophecy would have been worded differently if JKR was setting the story up to have the hero sacrifice his life in order to save the world.
Instead of the line: "either must die at the hand of the other" - which means one or the other -
the prophecy would have said something like - "and the one will give his life in order to kill the other".

It would prepare the readers for the possiblilty that Harry would sacrifice himself in order to save everyone else.

I think that prophecy indicates that it is a one or the other kind of thing, not both of them.

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[quote=Sasblack;4372429]The hero doesn't die in the Lord of the Rings. Frodo left Middle-earth but he did not die.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - Aslan is not really the hero - the children are the heroes. Aslan is intended to be a Christ-like figure. Harry Potter doesn't have a similar character.

In Little Women, the hero is not Beth, it's Jo.

Never read Charlotte's Web.

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[quote=sparkly;4372470]None of the heroes die in LOTR. Or rather they only die of old age if you read the appendices. Gandalf falls in Moria and returns so for awhile you are definitely bumming. Boromir was to belated a Hero in my opinion.

I always thought of Wilbur as the Hero in Charlotte's Web so maybe that is just at matter of personal leanings.

Dicken's Little Nell dies in the Old Curiosity Shop. And that was considered, at least the shorter version, a young person's book. It was a very maudlin death and I chuckled through most of it. And I love Dickens.

The Bridge to Terabithia

The original Little Red Riding Hood and most other faerie stories originally written for adults and then sanitized for children

Lord of the Flies but I don't think Piggy was a hero...well maybe he was, never made up my mind about that.

I really cannot think of many "kid" type books in this genre that do away with the Hero in the end.

I am just going keep chanting Harry Lives! Harry Lives! Harry Lives!

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But I don't think anyone is suggesting that Voldemort would walk away. I think most people who think that Harry will die (that I've spoken to, at least) tend to think that he'll die taking Voldemort down, as opposed to dying and leaving the world to a reign of evil omg ^_^ I think it's clear that JKR doesn't think the Prophecy is guiding things by itself - it seems that it's meant to be guiding Voldemort and Harry instead, in that Voldemort chose to follow the Prophecy, making it true. So I still think this leaves some wiggle room for other endings.

Anyway, I pretty much think that Harry will die and come back, but I won't go over it again since this thread makes me feel like an echo... :blush:

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So what your indicating is that, on some level, the prophecy is not a prophecy as we are used to thinking about them,e.g. Bible or Nostradamus but more of a self fulfilling prophecy if one of the players decide to take it seriously. In this case Voldemort?

I only ask because that line of thought seems to remove it as a prophecy and make it something else entirely.

As far as Harry dying/coming back...that I could live with. But JKR hasn't been particularly kind about that as yet so I am afraid I would be setting myself up for a fall.

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Well, I'm specifically remembering something Jo said about MacBeth (ZOMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! *FLAIL* :))

From the Mugglenet and TLC 2005 interview.

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So in other words the Prophecy is only as true or as apt to happen if someone believes that it will or should? Very interesting.

So in that sense it is self fulfilling. Almost as though ignorance truely is bliss. What you don't know cannot harm you. This theory has many corners and I love things with corners.

I guess I had better chant much louder. HARRY WILL NOT DIE! HARRY WILL NOT DIE! :lol:

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[quote=sparkly;4372470]Actually Frodo left Middle Earth for the equivelant of Heaven. So technically he passed on (although not physically dying).

I agree about Aslan not being the hero of Narnia but to a small child the lion Aslan is the bomb. He can walk, talk, and kick butt.

No clue about Little Women but you are probably right.

And yes Charlotte (the pigs saviour) does die.

Back to my point sorry... I could easily see Harry doing the same thing (as Frodo) but in a different way of course. He would die but not by a fatal blow or slowly over time from poison or wound. I also firmly disagree with him outright killing Voldy. So...I feel he will sacrifice himself to kill him. I will not go into details on my theory because it is lengthy, but i have posted it before.


Also as for it being a children's story... I agree and disagree. It started out as such, but has aged as the characters have. I remember reading and interview with JK where she said she wasn't really writing a children's story anymore and that really her story has always contained death and dispair.

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I still think it is aimed at the young reader, not children, but maybe older adolescents. JK Rowling uses cute little phrases to describe the "kissing" scenes, such as lip-wrestling, to lend a light comic relief to the very real fact that teenagers fall in love. Most of the Death Eaters activities occur in the background. We hear that Amelia Bones' murder was especially gruesome, but are not told of any detail. Even Cedric, the Riddles and Dumbledore do not exhibit signs that their deaths were horrible. This book is not going to stray too fair into themes that are difficult to justify. Voldemort dying makes sense and it is well-deserved. Harry death would not be well deserved. It would be unfair.

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Well I wasn't really saying Voldy wouldn't die, I just don't think Harry will outright kill him. I actually whole heartedly believe Voldy will die or fade from existence, I just think Harry will go with him. From interviews JK has gave she gives the impression (to me) that Harry will be a true hero, and a lot of times (not always) the hero dies to save everyone else...choosing between what is right and what is easy.

I disagree with the unfair comment though. I fail to see how Harry dying would be unfair to anyone. I'm sure some fans would be crushed just because he died but JK isn't trying to hurt or be unfair to anyone. I'm sure if she didn't kill Harry there would be fans out there that would react the same way. They would be just as dissapointed that he didn't die. You never know though, Harry might even be happy to die. He would get to see his parents, Sirius, and DD again.

Anywhoooo.... personally I hope he lives, but to me the way the story arc has gone I don't see him making it (I even support a lot of the theories that he will die because of the story arc). But I still hope he lives.

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I just meant that it would seem unfair to Harry. He has had a pretty tough life. It would be nice if the poor kid got a break.

It has been nice chatting with you. It is entirely possible that Harry will die. I think we both agree that we don't want to see it happen.

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true true... We will find out soon enough I suppose. It is fun to speculate though.

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If Harry lives and goes on to be an auror, I hardly think his life will be boring. Just think of the endless storylines that could be created wither by JKR if she chose or by fanfic writers.

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"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling

I just finished reading this.
You think she intended for Harry to die?

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I just read the same thing! But I think I took it out of context because of all the quotes I read previously. I just went back and looked at it again...and well now it sounds differently to me. I thought that it had probably already been mentioned here somewhere but there are just too many threads to go through even with search. So I am really glad you posted this. I hope someone with more upstairs than I have will comment on it. :)

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No. It would be just too much of a downer. And what would be the point of all the suffering he has gone through just to die at the end?

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I doubt she's referring to Harry, Ron, Ginny or Hermione in that quote. JKR wrote the last chapter of book seven nearly fifteen years ago, and she has said it hasn't changed substantially. The quote above indicates that she's recently changed her mind about what will happen to three characters, but if the final chapter hasn't changed, she probably wasn't referencing Harry. If she had changed her mind about Harry, the last chapter would need substantial re-work.

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I think that Harry must die for the story to end. If he doesn't then as said before fan-fic writers will have a blast with it.

Harry's main purpose as a character is to prepare for Voldemort and eventually defeat him. His purpose as a character will be complete and the story will end with a boy who sacraficed his life for the sake of all wizard kind.

I absolutely despise that theory though!!

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As morbid as it sounds, I almost hope they will do in DH. Harry have lost his parents, Sirius and Dumbledore because they sacrificed themselves for him. And now he don't want anyone else to stand between him and LV. That's the reason why I think someone of the trio (and perhaps even Ginny, if she tags along) could die. Many disagrees with this, because it wouldn't serve any purpose, Harry has suffered enough. But as JKR said, they're dealing with pure evil. Pure evil don't let you get away just because you've suffered, and pure evil don't go for other people if you're the one in their way.

If DH will have the deaths of more "parental" figures, like Lupin, Hagrid, or maybe Grawp or those I refers to as "safety net sacrifices", I will be disappointed. We have seen enough of those sacrifices, at least so I think. The only surprise would be if the Weasley family was attacked, they're the number one family against Voldemort, with a close bond to Harry.

Also, why I think Harry will die, is because I don't think he and his friends are going to survive a possible clash with Voldemort, not everyone of them. And Harry has shown us, both in OotP and HBP, that he don't care if he dies, in OotP he wants to go with Sirius, although he lives on later. And in HBP, he shows us again that he is ready to die in the fight. Harry does not fear his own death, only the deaths of those around him. Now more than ever. That's the reason I think Harry might die, to save those he loves, like his protectors did for him. He would not accept another sacrifice for his sake.

And while Harry might survive, get a family and live happily ever after, I don't see that life for him either. He is the boy who lives, and he wants to kill Voldemort, and protect those he loves more than anything. Harry is a fighter, and with DD out of the way, Voldemort will fear noone, maybe come out in the open. Harry will not rest as long as there is evil, he has shown clearly that he opposes it in every form.

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I think that "Mr Watson", a few posts up, makes a very good point. I don't want to believe it, but he is right about the fact that if Harry lives, people will want to know more about him, etc. and crazed fans will try to make more money off of "fake" Harry stories. If he dies, however, that will be that and his name will live on as a historical figure. I can almost envison Prof. Binns teaching future Hogwarts students about the great Harry Potter who gave his life and saved the world, not once, but twice. I even think that this may be what Harry would want (as well as he'd be reunited with his family, etc.) I reallllllly hope this will not happen, but it is extremely realistic.

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That may well be, but the fate of the trio was decided long ago. If they died, it would take more then a minor rewrite. I think the recent statements were in regard to other characters going (such as Remus, Tonks, etc).

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I've been giving this some thought. I think I remember reading that someone once ask JKR the question of whether Ron will die and she responded, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!" or something like that. Now it seems to me she pretty much just said no way, I'd never kill Ron. Well if it's that important to keep Harry's best friend alive, then I'm thinking there's no chance Harry, himself, will be killed off.

Does anyone else remember seeing or hearing that quote? Cuz I can't find it anywhere right now!!

Ok I just found it!! Interview with Time in 2000. JKR said, "Mostly they are worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend."

This may have been specific to just one upcoming book at the time, but I'm hoping it applies to the overall series story arc!!

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But JKR wrote the last chapter, and determined Harry's fate, five years before she had a publisher, so she had no idea that anyone would want to make money off the stories. In fact, she probably would have been thrilled at the concept that the stories would be so popular that her audience would want more.

Harry showed in HBP that he realizes he needs to look forward, not back, so he's not focused on reuniting with his family. Harry now knows that if he wants to achieve his deepest desire for a family that he needs to build one of his own and stop yearning to be with the one he's lost. He's started to build his own family with Ron and Hermione, as JKR has said, and he's continuing that with Ginny. Harry's new family is what he wants now, so he's looking forward to being reunited with them once Voldermort's gone. Harry doesn't have to die to be with his family; he needs to live.

JKR has set up the reader to think that Harry doesn't stand a chance, so she's got us right where she wants us. She's building suspense by putting Harry in a position so that it appears that he won't be able to survive a fight with Voldermort - if she had made him all-powerful the last book wouldn't be very interesting.

So Harry's seeming inability to defeat Voldermort can't be used as an indicator he will die because that's just a literary device to keep the suspense. Instead the book offers other clues.

All Harry has ever wanted is to be normal - he doesn't want to be a hero. So a family is the best reward for him. He isn't a fighter - he's only fighting because he has no alternative. If Voldermort were gone, Harry would be perfectly content to be a normal student entering his last year at Hogwarts, worrying about his NEWTs. Instead, Harry's been put in a position that he's the only one with the unique skills to destroy Voldermort. Harry will do what he has to do, but once that task is complete I don't think he'll continue fighting, unless he becomes an Auror.

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Oh, agreed on that one. Since Harry lost to Snape, I know I will read nonstop if he goes up against Voldemort in a battle. If he learn to close his mind, he has a chance. He has the reflexes.

As normal as a 'wizard' can be. I agree, Harry doesn't want to be a hero, but he does oppose those he thinks does wrong, and he fights for the ones he loves, much more than many others. He goes to the ministry because he thinks LV has captured Sirius without thinking about the consequences, or how he should stop LV. As for the "he fights because he has no alternative". That's true, in a way, but there is always an alternative, he could turn tail and run, or lay down and die, as he and Dumbledore discuss in the beginning of HBP. Harry knows that LV will hunt him to the bitter end, so his alternatives is either to flee, getting dragged into the arena to fight, or walk in there himself. That's what makes him a fighter.

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So she won't kill Ron because he's Harry's best friend?
Ahh...that could hint she won't kill Harry.
Hermione perhaps?

I have a theory that Lucius will kill Malfoy because Malfoy doesn't want to follow in being a death-eater.

I believe Hagrid will die.
As sad as it is, and maybe Lupin.

Tonks, I doubt it.

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The more I think about it I like the Lucius dueling Draco theory. Just seems like the kind of treachery we could expect from the Dark Forces. It illustrates that anger and greed are more important to them than family and love. It proves just how despicable the members of the dark side can be that a father would attack his own son.

Then again, I also like the idea that Draco will try to turn away from Voldemort and Lucius will sacrifice himself to save Draco when You-know-who tries to kill Draco. Just so many ways that could play out!

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Well, I really don't want Harry(or any of the trio or the Weasleys for that matter) to die and my favorite theory for Harry not dying is that in the very first chapter of the SS that he was named "The Boy who lived" If he died, it'd have to be changed to, "The Boy who lived... for a while" doesn't sound as good to me :no:

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But when he's 17 he's no longer a boy, he's a man. So while he was a boy, he lived.

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So you'd call him "They boy who lived and the man who died?" and if were going that direction, he wasn't even old enough to be a boy yet, he was still a baby. And if you wanted to use the Gender approach then hes still a Boy when he gets old..

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I don't think symantics will be this important in the final outcome

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I was just pointing it out for all the people who didn't think he could be "The boy who lived" if he died. ;)

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He would still be The Boy Who Lived, because he was given the title for surviving the Killing Curse. Surely when he was first called that no one expected him to live forever.

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That was my original thought too. And I much prefer it to my second thought which was "Oh NO!" :no:

At this point I will hang on to anything anyone offers if it means Harry survives the seventh book. I cannot accept the theory that the only way the book "works" is for him to die.

Exactly. This is the last book and we are all going to be :drool: idiots by the time it is released. I have thought all along when JKR is asked pointed questions about the Deathly Hallows...Do these reporters really think she is going to TELL THEM what is going to happen? If she did what would be the point of even releasing the book? The little bits of information that she has let fall have only served to make our tongues hang out a little longer and a little wetter. She is very good with her PR the whole idea is to keep us interested and she is doing a bang-up job of that.

In the OoTp, which I had to go and look at again for this post, in the chapter "The Lost Prophecy" Harry is certainly not happy to find out that the prophecy relates to him. He seems hopeful that Voldemort may have been mistaken and Neville is the chosen one. He doesn't think he has any particular powers that Voldemort does not have and Dumbledore said :

I believe that in the end the same power that Lily used to save her baby will be the same power that saves Harry seventeen years later. And that is love.

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BAM. :tu:

I think the series' message will be strongest if this is the way it ends - with Harry living.

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dont think so, but im guessing its going to be the end for either ron or hermione...=(

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I think Harry won't die,because of the simple fact that he's the hero of the book and the genre of the HP books isn't drama, its adventure , and the hero never dies.
Classic rule of literature

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Harry will not die. But this is what I am mostly baseing it on.

In a way, the books are Harry's POV. Almost everything we see has to do by Harry's Point-of-View. The only exception is the first part of the first book, and the first part of the sixth book. Remember the fourth one was Harry's dream.

So... can anyone honestly see the book ending with...

"Avada Kedavra!"

Harry falls to the ground, his eyes still open.

Because I cannot. What I am saying, is there is no way, given JK Rowling's way of writing the book, that there would be a sudden change of point-of-view now after so long. If Harry died, it would go to someone else's Point-of-View or the book would end with that.

That is why Harry will not die.

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Or it could just stay in Harry's point of view :eyebrows:

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JKR has used the point-of-view of other characters several times in the books. The first two chapters of HBP were written from other point-of-view, so I do not see how it would be a problem to change point-of-view at the very end of Deathly Hallows for the last chapter or so. She has changed point-of-view before and can do so again.

Changing point-of-view at the end of a book in order to kill a main character has been done in great literary works of the past. In All Quiet on the Western Front, the entire book is written as first person except the last chapter which switches to third person in which the main character dies. This switch is far bigger than it would be if Harry died because the books have always been written from third person limited rather than first person. It's much easier to change the point-of-view character in third person limited than to switch from first to third person.

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I don't really see how the point-of-View could limit JKR. She can change the POV anytime she wants, so I really don't think it's relevant that "most" of the book is written in first person. Fury, you said yourself that there are some chapters which are not written from Harry's POV, so there's no reason why JKR wouldn't do it in the last chapter too.

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:huh: Okay. What did I miss? There must be a thread about this somewhere?

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Fury said that the first chapter of GoF was Harry's dream (he wakes up in the next chapter). Actually, part of it wasn't his dream. If I remember correctly, it started out talking about how Tom Riddle (Sr.) was living with his parents and they all were mysteriously killed. Then it went on to talk about the villagers and how they were all suspicious of Frank. That part couldn't have been Harry's dream because it was being basically narrated (a lot like Chapter 1 of HBP). Then it goes on to talk about how Frank was murdered, which was Harry's dream.

I agree that JKR could switch POV in order to kill Harry, although I don't think she will.