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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

LoveWeasleys May 10th, 2007 1:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anabel (Post 4504163)
It is a book though. It's not real.

:lol: I know :) but I meant in the book it is "real" evil persay. I think I heard Jo even say that in one of the interviews on You Tube (that is where I got it from)...:)

voldyshorts_1 May 10th, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
My short answer is that I don't think JK Rowling would put millions of readers through years of reading about the [mostly] unfortunate life of a boy whose parents died, godfather died, and last standing mentor died just to kill him off in the end. Yes, it's true that the book doesn't have to necessarily have a sad ending if Harry dies, but it just wouldn't be worth rereading the series, knowing in the back of your head that Harry will die in the end.

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Graduand_Esk May 11th, 2007 12:24 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Certainly I pity any parents who've introduce their children to the series and have to be at hand to comfort them in the event of Harry's death at the end! It's amazing what a big impression something like that can make on you if you're at all sensitive and imaginative as a child.

I'm beginning to think that Harry won't die though. What if the 'Deathly Hallows' is partly a reference to the mysterious veil seen in the Ministry of Magic? It's a classic theme in ancient mythology for the hero to undertake a journey into the underworld to test him in some way, or to recover some person, or lost piece of information to help him complete his quest (think Orpheus or Odysseus.) How if Harry were forced to go through the veil to find out something important in order to defeat Voldemort? Perhaps he might speak with Regulus Black - who I'm sure is RAB - who may hold some vital information. Or perhaps Harry may encounter Dumbledore one last time and learn something about Snape that he might never have believed, or even found out otherwise. We now have pretty good information from JKR that Dumbledore features in DH 'and is giving her trouble'!? I see the pensieve playing a role with memories again, but I think there has to be something more than this.

These are some ideas I've discussed with two or three other people (at least one of whom doesn't always agree with my theories), so I think they're at least plausible. Harry's voluntary journey through the veil could be seen as a kind of 'death', but one from which there is a possible return. I see his choosing this path - and thus showing that, unlike Voldemort, he does not fear dying. I think his return from the domain of the dead though is important to reinforce his status as 'The Boy Who Lived'. Harry symbolises hope and a new beginning.

LoveWeasleys May 11th, 2007 12:34 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by voldyshorts_1 (Post 4504898)
Yes, it's true that the book doesn't have to necessarily have a sad ending if Harry dies, but it just wouldn't be worth rereading the series, knowing in the back of your head that Harry will die in the end.

I kind of thought these same things. I even went as far as to think I would be mad at myself for "wasting" so much time on reading and debating a series where the main character dies in the end. [b]But[b], then I remembered that this is Jo's story to tell. She knew how it was going to end from the beginning and I am confident in her writing and story that she will do what is she thinks is right for the story. And, no matter what the ending I will always love this series and pass them on to my children and grandchildren...
(I am just keeping my fingers crossed he doesn't die) :)

Rinnieayang May 11th, 2007 3:53 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think Harry would die because in the third book, Dumbledore said that there would be this situation where Harry would be glad that he had saved Peter Pettigrew's life instead of regretting upon it. Lets hope that would happen.:err:

theblueflamingo May 11th, 2007 4:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
^^omg, that's real weird, seeing them all so young. love it though.

Anyways, I feel that Harry will die, because there are worse things than death. That has been emphasized throughout the book, in one way, or another, but I think Voldemort will have the more trajic fate.

PHOENIX_ENFLAME May 11th, 2007 5:56 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't know if he will or not. I hope he doesn't die, but you never know.

Considering what happened after Dumbledore's death, no one will believe it anyway.

inkling7 May 11th, 2007 3:04 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Interesting bit about visiting the underworld like Orpheus but also like Hercules - didn't make a short visit to the underworld to visit his wife and children who were there due to their untimely deaths? Didn't he also have seven labours to complete for victory over something? A bit like Harry having to get rid of seven pieces of Voldemort's soul for victory. The hunt and destruction of horcruxes are six labours and the defeat of Voldemort himself is the seventh. I believe Hercules also had help of friends on his quests. I'll have to go back and read up on this, but the similarities to this legend struck me as has the similarity with other legends mentioned. It's just that the number seven stood out here and the labours just like Harry's labours.

This means Harry just might not die as Hercules survived.

However Jo has a habit of combining legends in her stories so I suppose he might die as other heroes have.

Nightrush May 11th, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Hercules had 12 labours.

I don't think Harry will die for several reasons:

1) He is "The Boy Who Lived" - I've always felt this had endgame implications.

2) If the prophecy is correct, only Harry can kill the Dark Lord, and one of them is going to die. Killing Harry leaves Voldy to rule the world.

3) I don't get the feeling the story is going to end in Martyrdom, that's a religous theme for the most part and a book about wizards and witches is hardly religious.

4) JKR knows killing Harry will bring a billion readers to tears, hence flooding the earth and destroying all of mankind.

PHOENIX_ENFLAME May 11th, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally post by Nightrush
4) JKR knows killing Harry will bring a billion readers to tears, hence flooding the earth and destroying all of mankind.



I was just writing about that. Can you imagine 10-20 million fans all being depressed at the same time.....yes, I think COS will need more servers.

Graduand_Esk May 12th, 2007 12:34 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rinnieayang (Post 4505506)
I don't think Harry would die because in the third book, Dumbledore said that there would be this situation where Harry would be glad that he had saved Peter Pettigrew's life instead of regretting upon it. Lets hope that would happen.:err:

Yeah, I wondered about this amongst other things - the life debt thread has to be followed through. I suppose it could possibly be fulfilled by Pettigrew's saving someone Harry cares for eg. Ron, Hermione or Ginny, but this wouldn't quite add up in my mind. It seems important that Harry should benefit as a result of his past action. I'm not sure that it's going to be an act of amazing bravery on Pettigrew's part, but he has to do something intentionally or maybe even unintentionally that helps Harry. It would seem a bit weak if after all that Harry dies.

I like the 'Seven Labours of Hercules' idea too, inkling7 - I'd forgotten that particular story, but it has a nice ring to it, what with seven being a significant number in the Potterverse!

Spritey May 12th, 2007 2:56 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Graduand_Esk (Post 4505235)
Certainly I pity any parents who've introduce their children to the series and have to be at hand to comfort them in the event of Harry's death at the end! It's amazing what a big impression something like that can make on you if you're at all sensitive and imaginative as a child.

I'm beginning to think that Harry won't die though. What if the 'Deathly Hallows' is partly a reference to the mysterious veil seen in the Ministry of Magic? It's a classic theme in ancient mythology for the hero to undertake a journey into the underworld to test him in some way, or to recover some person, or lost piece of information to help him complete his quest (think Orpheus or Odysseus.) How if Harry were forced to go through the veil to find out something important in order to defeat Voldemort? Perhaps he might speak with Regulus Black - who I'm sure is RAB - who may hold some vital information. Or perhaps Harry may encounter Dumbledore one last time and learn something about Snape that he might never have believed, or even found out otherwise. We now have pretty good information from JKR that Dumbledore features in DH 'and is giving her trouble'!? I see the pensieve playing a role with memories again, but I think there has to be something more than this.

These are some ideas I've discussed with two or three other people (at least one of whom doesn't always agree with my theories), so I think they're at least plausible. Harry's voluntary journey through the veil could be seen as a kind of 'death', but one from which there is a possible return. I see his choosing this path - and thus showing that, unlike Voldemort, he does not fear dying. I think his return from the domain of the dead though is important to reinforce his status as 'The Boy Who Lived'. Harry symbolises hope and a new beginning.

Agreed with most of that. This is an idea I've considered for a while, and I've come to the conclusion that it's very, very possible. Unfortunately, none of the prediction tests I've done have allowed for "He dies but comes back!", so I usually go with "Die" for simplicity :p

Anyway, you're right, in mythology going beyond the Veil for a time is frequently a part of the hero's journey. I don't think Jo brought the Veil in merely to kill Sirius.

Oh, and your last paragraph? So much word :D One of the huge differences between Harry and Voldemort is that he's willing to die when it comes down to it, he doesn't fear it, especially if it's in the name of saving someone - whereas Voldemort literally tears himself apart to avoid it.

lindaluna May 12th, 2007 4:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Given how much Voldemort fears death - if Harry does kill him, would he come back as a ghost?

inkling7 May 12th, 2007 5:20 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
You are right of course it was the 12 labours of Hercules - silly me I was confusing it with the seven labours of Baba Yaga and other mths and legends. However some versions of these stories have Hercules doing 10 labours and there are a couple which only mention 7 - probably the most famous ones and I could have confused this with it too.

I hope Harry and his friends all live but somehow I doubt they'll all make it through - just an ominous feeling unfortunately.

Spritey May 12th, 2007 8:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lindaluna (Post 4507130)
Given how much Voldemort fears death - if Harry does kill him, would he come back as a ghost?

I think it was ComicBookWorm who came up with the idea that he won't be able to come back or live beyond the Veil, due to his sorta reckless hacking up of his own soul.

olivegirlac May 12th, 2007 10:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think that Harry will die. Voldemort will die along with a few people that are close to Harry. Not all the evil will be destroyed though. Some of the death eaters and maybe a few other evil people will live through the battle.

naikuria May 12th, 2007 11:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Just wondering, can Harry die before Pettigrew repays his debt to him?

anabel May 12th, 2007 11:57 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by naikuria (Post 4508271)
Just wondering, can Harry die before Pettigrew repays his debt to him?

I don't see why not.

inkling7 May 13th, 2007 6:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Are you saying that Harry could die then Peter Pettigrew will repay his debt? How? By finishing off Voldoemort? That would be something along the lines of poetic justice I suppose having Voldemort finish off Harry thus fulfilling his part of the prophecy only to have Peter turn on him and finish him off as repayment to his debt to Harry.

WizKing May 13th, 2007 7:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry has to be alive for the debt to be repaid, the whole point of the life debt is that one man saves another's life.

inkling7 May 13th, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well that puts paid to that idea.

Maybe Peter will repay his debt to Harry, saving his life by turning against Voldemort and finishing him off for him?

loona May 13th, 2007 7:22 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will live ... I am re-reading the series and I just finished book one the other day. When I read this line it kind of gave me hope that Harry would stick around.

Quote:

"In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldermort to come bursting through the door at any moment." SS paperback pg 262 AE
Of course you could say that "in years to come" refers to the rest of his years at Hogwarts. But then why add the bit about Voldie bursting through the door. Harry is always expecting him to burst through the door while he is at Hogwarts. And he has always done good on his exams. So this is why I say Harry lives. I also think it would be great it the last chapter of the series was "The Boy Who Lived" you know kinda come full circle.

LoveWeasleys May 13th, 2007 9:36 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by loona (Post 4509464)
I think Harry will live ... I am re-reading the series and I just finished book one the other day. When I read this line it kind of gave me hope that Harry would stick around.


Quote:
"In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldermort to come bursting through the door at any moment." SS paperback pg 262 AE

Of course you could say that "in years to come" refers to the rest of his years at Hogwarts. But then why add the bit about Voldie bursting through the door. Harry is always expecting him to burst through the door while he is at Hogwarts. And he has always done good on his exams. So this is why I say Harry lives. I also think it would be great it the last chapter of the series was "The Boy Who Lived" you know kinda come full circle.

This is GREAT! Nice catch! It is nice to have actual canon to allude to the debate if he is going to live or die. Most of it is people's opinion, but I think this quote makes really good sense as to his life after he defeats LV...
I wonder if it is him speaking about his life at Hogwarts in the third person...(totally different thread)... :)

BurrowGhoul May 13th, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
In CoS (American paperback, p321), the 16 year old Tom Riddle says to Harry "So ends the famous Harry Potter. Alone in the Chamber of Secrets, forsaken by his friends, defeated at last by the Dark Lord he so unwisely challenged. You'll be back with your dear Mudblood mother soon, Harry... She bought you twelve years of borrowed time... but Lord Voldemort got you in the end, as you knew he must..."

If Harry dies, Voldemort wins. Period.

Spritey May 13th, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul (Post 4509822)
In CoS (American paperback, p321), the 16 year old Tom Riddle says to Harry "So ends the famous Harry Potter. Alone in the Chamber of Secrets, forsaken by his friends, defeated at last by the Dark Lord he so unwisely challenged. You'll be back with your dear Mudblood mother soon, Harry... She bought you twelve years of borrowed time... but Lord Voldemort got you in the end, as you knew he must..."

If Harry dies, Voldemort wins. Period.

Not if Harry chooses it, though, as a means of saving someone in desperate circumstances. That would be a victory to me :shrug: Maybe I am morbid.

LoveWeasleys May 14th, 2007 2:31 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4509874)
Not if Harry chooses it, though, as a means of saving someone in desperate circumstances. That would be a victory to me Maybe I am morbid.

Even if Harry does choose death, it still seems like LV wins (to me of course :) ). I mean I don't really think LV cares how or why Harry would die, just the fact that Harry is dead would satisfy him. Whether LV dies or not, I think if he knows Harry is dieing or has died, he will be happy. I don't think I could stand for that sort of satisfaction for LV.
Kind of like in battle when a person knows they are going to die, but still takes out as many people as possible before the enivitable. They then die in glory because they are satisfied that they did a brave deed as opposed to just lieing there and dieing.
It is kind of a win-win situation for both I guess, I mean one gets the satisfaction that they got their target(s) and the other is happey because the one is dead...
Harry can't die, it just wouldn't make sense at least to me...
I mean what would have been the point of him living then in GH? Just to avenge his parents' death and then die...that seems oddly twisted to me...

Spritey May 14th, 2007 3:31 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4510188)
Even if Harry does choose death, it still seems like LV wins (to me of course :) ). I mean I don't really think LV cares how or why Harry would die, just the fact that Harry is dead would satisfy him. Whether LV dies or not, I think if he knows Harry is dieing or has died, he will be happy. I don't think I could stand for that sort of satisfaction for LV.
Kind of like in battle when a person knows they are going to die, but still takes out as many people as possible before the enivitable. They then die in glory because they are satisfied that they did a brave deed as opposed to just lieing there and dieing.
It is kind of a win-win situation for both I guess, I mean one gets the satisfaction that they got their target(s) and the other is happey because the one is dead...
Harry can't die, it just wouldn't make sense at least to me...
I mean what would have been the point of him living then in GH? Just to avenge his parents' death and then die...that seems oddly twisted to me...

Hmm, but that's really Voldemort's problem, I'm thinking... he thinks death is the worst thing that could happen to a person. It's clear Dumbledore disagrees. I guess I just think Harry experiencing and accepting the one thing Voldemort fears most would be a huge triumph.

However, I disagree that Harry's life has been a waste if he dies. He hasn't just defeated Voldemort (now there's presumptuous of me :D), he's lived 7 years with some of the most amazing, loyal friends you could get. He's won Quidditch matches and been thoroughly thrashed at Wizard chess, he's had snowball fights and he's dealt with grief, he learned about his parents, he learned about his own strengths and weaknesses, he's had some totally crazy adventures and he's eaten a lot of Treacle Tart. How could that ever be a waste? Cliche, I know, but I'm a cliche kinda girl :blush:

JimmyPotter May 14th, 2007 4:04 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Can we gleam anything from the title of the first chapter of the first book, "The Boy Who Lived"? If Harry does die in DH, then when we read the books again we see "The Boy Who Lived" knowing that he will die. Would the title make sense in that case?

Moriath May 14th, 2007 9:23 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by avada_kedavra77 (Post 4510173)
Hey, I'm doing everything I can to find the answer to this question. Give me a week or so, then report back to this forum and I'll have an answer by then.

You had better not post any answers you find to this question because this would be a major spoiler and get you banned immediately.

inkling7 May 14th, 2007 12:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think Avada etc meant that they will find out the real answers I think they meant they'll go back though the last 6 books and look for clues as to what the answer MIGHT be - as the rest of us are doing. Apparently only 3 people in the world know how the book ends up so Avada can't possibly find out the true answers. Go easy on the first years students - they haven't had the experience you graduates have on this forum and sometimes I think some posts are misinterpreted by some of the graduates.

anabel May 14th, 2007 1:26 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4510652)
I don't think Avada etc meant that they will find out the real answers I think they meant they'll go back though the last 6 books and look for clues as to what the answer MIGHT be - as the rest of us are doing. Apparently only 3 people in the world know how the book ends up so Avada can't possibly find out the true answers. Go easy on the first years students - they haven't had the experience you graduates have on this forum and sometimes I think some posts are misinterpreted by some of the graduates.

Posting spoilers is no joke. And yes, there are people who have access to the books already. Last time there was a huge problem with people posting spoilers, which ruined the book for most of our lovely staff and lead to Lani closing the whole place down early! It's very important for everyone to understand that posting spoilers or even saying they will post spoilers is not acceptable and that instant banning will be the result, whether the spoiler turns out to be true or not. Please see Jo's diary update today as well! http://www.jkrowling.com/en/

ComicBookWorm May 14th, 2007 1:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4510652)
I don't think Avada etc meant that they will find out the real answers I think they meant they'll go back though the last 6 books and look for clues as to what the answer MIGHT be - as the rest of us are doing. Apparently only 3 people in the world know how the book ends up so Avada can't possibly find out the true answers. Go easy on the first years students - they haven't had the experience you graduates have on this forum and sometimes I think some posts are misinterpreted by some of the graduates.

Pssst, Madron is an auror.

LoveWeasleys May 14th, 2007 2:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4510290)
However, I disagree that Harry's life has been a waste if he dies. He hasn't just defeated Voldemort (now there's presumptuous of me ), he's lived 7 years with some of the most amazing, loyal friends you could get. He's won Quidditch matches and been thoroughly thrashed at Wizard chess, he's had snowball fights and he's dealt with grief, he learned about his parents, he learned about his own strengths and weaknesses, he's had some totally crazy adventures and he's eaten a lot of Treacle Tart. How could that ever be a waste? Cliche, I know, but I'm a cliche kinda girl

Waaaaa! You are right! He has loved, lived, and had fun...oh, it would be so sad though!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyPotter (Post 4510334)
Can we gleam anything from the title of the first chapter of the first book, "The Boy Who Lived"? If Harry does die in DH, then when we read the books again we see "The Boy Who Lived" knowing that he will die. Would the title make sense in that case?

This is the most important piece of evidence that gives me hope he won't die. I really like what someone said earlier about the books doing a full circle and the last chapter being titled "The Boy Who Lived"...That would be great! So, no I don't think he will die :).

inkling7 May 14th, 2007 2:22 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Am I supposed to quake in my boots or something? No I'm too old for that but really whoever Madron is he/she could have at least worded the response a bit differently eg "Please if you find out really how Jo has ended her series please don't spoil it for the millions of fans as they want to read the outcome for themselves and it will get you banned. If however you are just researching the other 6 books and come up with a theory - that's OK". Remember you wre a novice once and 1st years might be intimidated by graduates and never want to post again for fear of unwarranted reprimand. That goes for 2nd and 3rd years too I guess. Be nice so they won't leave the forum forever due to intimidation - meant or not.

Sorry Madron but sometimes newer member (avada is only 4 days new) put their feet in their respective mouths and things come out the wrong way and not really the way they are meant to due to inexperience on forums. Be nice and we will all try harder I promise.

Avada if you are reading this I was slapped on the wrist for saying that something I thought that something I read on a link was a load of old bollocks and unsubstantiated so don't worry you'll learn how things are done at this school eventually. Keep posting but remember if you do somehow miraculoulsy find out Jo's true ending don't tell us. You can privately owl me if you like as I might be living in South America by then and not have access to an English book.....

Now is that an OK post or am I in trouble?????

ComicBookWorm May 14th, 2007 2:36 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4510745)
Am I supposed to quake in my boots or something? No I'm too old for that but really whoever Madron is he/she could hhave at least worded the response a bit differently eg "Please if you find out really how Jo has ended her series please don't spoil it for the millions of fans as it will get you banned. If however you are just researching the other 6 books and come up with a theory - that's OK". Remember 1st years might be intimidated by graduates and never post again for fear of unwarranted reprimand. That goes for 2nd and 3rd years too I guess. Be nice so they won't leave the forum forever due to intimidation - meant or not.

No, but since she's an auror, she did have the right to post the warning. And she wasn't just a forum member being too rude. And do you mean Hogsmeade member by the term graduate? Hogsmead membership is just a small perk for members.

There really is no way to tell who really has a spoiler and who doesn't. Spoilers were a real problem last time, and the staff were the ones who got the book ruined for them repeatedly. I happen to think that Avada did just intend to look over the books for clues, but didn't word it as clearly as it could have been.

BTW, I've gotten more than my unfair share of warning points over trivialities, if that's what you mean about getting your hand slapped.

inkling7 May 14th, 2007 2:48 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I can't tell the difference as I don't know how to tell an moderator from the others. How do you know who is what and what are their qualifications and how can you tell they aren't being a Percy Weasley type- over officious.

It's just with and extreemly new member I would have been a bit less harsh and given them the benefit of the doubt while informing them of consequences of spoiling it for others. The above ay it how I would have worded it so as not to discourage very new poster from posting their views. I see yo thought the same as I did about Avada's post and I think yoo might have gone about it the same way I would have.
Why aren't you a moderator?

Now I'm probably really in trouble........

leenielou May 14th, 2007 2:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
inkling7 - Madron's post was probably worded as it was because the staff are dealing with people posting spoilers at the moment on a daily basis. I kid you not - every day people are being banned and posts are being deleted, so we're having to keep on our toes :lol:

You do, of course, bring up good points, and I shall owl avada_kedavra77 in order to clear up this confusion :)

By the way - staff members have their names in blue, which is how you can tell them apart :)

Hope I helped! Now back to Harry's (possibly) impending doom...

inkling7 May 14th, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Thanks for that now who are these people in Red?

Let's hope it's really Harry's impossibly impending doom. Ie he lives....

By the way ComicBookWorm Happy Birthday! Feliz Cumpleaños!

ComicBookWorm May 14th, 2007 4:02 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4510767)
Why aren't you a moderator?

I'm considered a big pain in the rear section since I speak my mind and won't back down from a fight. I'll never become a mod. Mods are supposed to be nice and patient. I am neither of those. The red people are admins. They are the big cheeses who run the show. Morgoth is the head cheese :evil:. Sorry I couldn't resist. But Morgoth is the big kahuna. The white italics are Hogsmeade members, like I am. It's a perk to an additional all fun forum for good posters (and nice posters) after they pass their third year. I got my first warning points only a few days after I got into Hogsmeade. Had I gotten the warning points first, my entry might have been delayed. BTW, the points were completely undeserved, but that is a long story not appropriate here.

Err, what's the subject? Oh yes, Harry. He won't die. Jo has slipped up a few times and referred to Harry's life after Hogwarts.

SusanBones May 14th, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4510856)
The white italics are Hogsmeade members, like I am.

Just an fyi, the color of the name depends on what skin you use. I use Ravenclaw, and regular members are blue, Hogsmeade is blue italics, staff are a lighter blue. Big kahunas are red.

inkling7 May 14th, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Hang on were't you the Grumpist member at one stage?
If you aren't now can I be? Please.....
Hope you're enjoying your birthday and keep on being a pain in the arse - I like it....

Perhaps these slips of info about Harry's life in years to come are a hint he might live? However what if Ginny dies? She seems to be his soul-mate and if she's not there and he's lost so many others he values then his future life won't have such a happy outcome. What a horrible thought - he might become suicidal.......

ComicBookWorm May 14th, 2007 4:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SusanBones111 (Post 4510885)
Just an fyi, the color of the name depends on what skin you use. I use Ravenclaw, and regular members are blue, Hogsmeade is blue italics, staff are a lighter blue. Big kahunas are red.

I always found that confusing. The difference between the blues is not that great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4510886)
Hang on were't you the Grumpist member at one stage?
If you aren't now can I be? Please.....
Hope you're enjoying your birthday and keep on being a pain in the arse - I like it....

Perhaps these slips of info about Harry's life in years to come are a hint he might live? However what if Ginny dies? She seems to be his soul-mate and if she's not there and he's lost so many others he values then his future life won't have such a happy outcome. What a horrible thought - he might become suicidal.......

That title was a Secret Santa gift to me. And then one day it was gone. I rather like my title of Master of the Magical arts since only one other member has enough posts to have that title and she doesn't post here anymore. Others are working hard to catch up though.

I think that had Jo intended to kill either Ginny or Harry she wouldn't have broken them up. That way the loss would be all the more poignant and at least they would have had each other for a year. So I think they'll both live. That way when they get back together it will seem all the more sweet.

LoveWeasleys May 14th, 2007 5:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4510856)
Err, what's the subject? Oh yes, Harry. He won't die. Jo has slipped up a few times and referred to Harry's life after Hogwarts.

Really!!! I would love to read them! Could you point me in the right direction?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4510912)
I think that had Jo intended to kill either Ginny or Harry she wouldn't have broken them up. That way the loss would be all the more poignant and at least they would have had each other for a year. So I think they'll both live. That way when they get back together it will seem all the more sweet.

I like the way you think!! :)

ComicBookWorm May 14th, 2007 5:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I've got to run off right now. But one was when she discussed what his career would be after the stories ended. And another was when she discussed who she would like over for dinner, and she mentioned Harry, and then she said that she knew who survives. Then she went on to add Dumbledore and Hagrid as an afterthought which seemed to tell me that Hagrid wouldn't survive. Sorry. I'll have to go look for the quotes later.

sparkly May 14th, 2007 5:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4510912)
I think that had Jo intended to kill either Ginny or Harry she wouldn't have broken them up. That way the loss would be all the more poignant and at least they would have had each other for a year. So I think they'll both live. That way when they get back together it will seem all the more sweet.

I agree. JKR has positioned Harry at the end of HBP that he has something to live for, something to have after Voldermort is gone. He's no longer fighting just to avoid being killed - Harry is beginning to realize he won't be able to live his life as long as Voldermort is in the picture. Harry wants Voldermort gone because he, Harry, wants to live.

That's a different mind-set from the end of OOTP. At that time, Harry was looking back to what he had lost - his parents and Sirius - and feeling badly that they're gone. Now he's looking forward, and you can see it in his reaction to Dumbledore's death. It's quite a different viewpoint - Harry is now tired of losing the people he cares for and he wants it to stop.

I don't think JKR would take Harry on that journey if she was planning for him to die. It renders the journey he took in HBP meaningless.

Catqueen93 May 14th, 2007 5:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
im sorry, but I reckon that Harry will die, but that Voldemort will go with him. That's what I expect out of somone like JKR. I like Harry and all, I just think he's gonna go.

LoveWeasleys May 14th, 2007 5:36 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4510938)
I agree. JKR has positioned Harry at the end of HBP that he has something to live for, something to have after Voldermort is gone. He's no longer fighting just to avoid being killed - Harry is beginning to realize he won't be able to live his life as long as Voldermort is in the picture. Harry wants Voldermort gone because he, Harry, wants to live.

That's a different mind-set from the end of OOTP. At that time, Harry was looking back to what he had lost - his parents and Sirius - and feeling badly that they're gone. Now he's looking forward, and you can see it in his reaction to Dumbledore's death. It's quite a different viewpoint - Harry is now tired of losing the people he cares for and he wants it to stop.

I don't think JKR would take Harry on that journey if she was planning for him to die. It renders the journey he took in HBP meaningless.

I appreciate this view as well. Because it gives canon as a support for your belief. I think you are right, that he had two very different reactions after the deaths of Sirius and DD. It shows that he is not only growing up, but that he is ready to face LV and get it over with, so that he can live a very long and happy life...

Lillbet May 14th, 2007 5:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4510937)
I've got to run off right now. But one was when she discussed what his career would be after the stories ended. And another was when she discussed who she would like over for dinner, and she mentioned Harry, and then she said that she knew who survives. Then she went on to add Dumbledore and Hagrid as an afterthought which seemed to tell me that Hagrid wouldn't survive. Sorry. I'll have to go look for the quotes later.

I know the interview you mean, and JKR has been so careful about not letting things slip that I doubt she would make a point of saying "I know who dies" and then name a character she plans to kill off. Just doesn't add up for me :no:

seeker85 May 14th, 2007 5:52 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
yeah i think that harry will survive. i agree with what other people have said in the fact that ginny will help him out and will be with him after everything is said and done. i mean after all i think hes kind of earned a happy ending, dont cha think?

anabel May 14th, 2007 11:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4510938)
I agree. JKR has positioned Harry at the end of HBP that he has something to live for, something to have after Voldermort is gone. He's no longer fighting just to avoid being killed - Harry is beginning to realize he won't be able to live his life as long as Voldermort is in the picture. Harry wants Voldermort gone because he, Harry, wants to live.

I agree. With Ginny in the background, Harry really does have something to live for - a future with her!

inkling7 May 15th, 2007 11:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes! Let's all cross our fingers for a lovely safe future with Ginny.

Nats_breakthru May 15th, 2007 12:01 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I hope Harry doesn't die. If somebody were to die though I always seem to picture Hagrid. Its that pattern of Cedric, Sirius and then Dumbledore. Hagrid is very important to Harry so maybe the purpose is for Harry to break away and move onto a life with Ginny.

Hinoema May 15th, 2007 2:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I really, really, really (Really!) doubt it, for three reasons.

1. The Prophecy says 'neither can live while the other survives'. By default, when one fails to survive, the other has got to live, or it's a waste of clever wording.

2. In coming of age novels, ninety nine percent of the protagonists come of age and reap the reward of their journey.

3. The epilogue, which tells what happens to the survivors, would be horribly depressing. I don't see Jo emphasizing the power of love and the benefits of making the right choices only to write a "Two years later, they all still cried over his grave" sort of thing.

:p

(I think the strongest argument for Living!Harry is the fact that if they both die, the prophecy makes no real sense, and I doubt that is likely.)

inkling7 May 15th, 2007 3:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes that all makes sense to me. I just hope that the words 'neither can live while the other survives' really means that in the end Harry will live because Voldemort didn't survive.

BTW ComicBookWorm does this means that because you are no longer the grumpiest member that I am by default? I reckon I have always been the Grumpiest - just ask my daughter and her children and my friends.......
Can I change my thingy at the botton of my stuff to the gumpiest NOW????? (please) If you knew me you'd know I am really a Grumpy Old Woman.

Let's all take up the cry 'Harry Potter - the boy that LIVED twice!!

Lillbet May 15th, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinoema (Post 4512549)
2. In coming of age novels, ninety nine percent of the protagonists come of age and reap the reward of their journey.

I googled "mortality rates of protagonists in coming of age novels" and got this. I'm curious as to where you got your figure from :p

Seriously though, JKR has said she has cast Harry in the mold of the hero, so possibly he's going to survive, as you suggest, to "reap the reward" but I think it's more likely that he'll survive to pass on what he's learned. Which is typically what heroes do.

That said, I'm not sure that putting one's faith in convention and cliche is a good idea. JKR has shown more than once that she's not above flipping the script- she's already killed off two major/beloved characters and another major character "has gotten a reprieve" after all. And she did say that she hadn't planned on killing off Harry before the 7th book, which isn't to say she won't do it in the middle or toward the end.

Just sayin'. :)

GabyPotter May 15th, 2007 5:02 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Seriously though, JKR has said she has cast Harry in the mold of the hero, so possibly he's going to survive, as you suggest, to "reap the reward" but I think it's more likely that he'll survive to pass on what he's learned. Which is typically what heroes do.
Yeah, he'll probably pass on what he learned but he doesn't have to be alive to do that!... If you saw the movie 300, you'll undeerstand what I mean: Leonidas died and so the guy whose eye was poked out passed on his knowledge of Leonidas to other people to inspire them... so Leonidas' legacy continued even though he had died...

Lillbet May 16th, 2007 3:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GabyPotter (Post 4512733)
Yeah, he'll probably pass on what he learned but he doesn't have to be alive to do that!... If you saw the movie 300, you'll undeerstand what I mean: Leonidas died and so the guy whose eye was poked out passed on his knowledge of Leonidas to other people to inspire them... so Leonidas' legacy continued even though he had died...

Nice! Haven't seen the movie but it's on my list to rent. :)

So you think Harry will die then?

inkling7 May 16th, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
However Jo is writing for herself not the movie the 300 so can you really make comparisons between her books and other stories/movies you may have read/seen?

hazel_eyes_21 May 16th, 2007 10:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry just can't die. Jo can't kill him, that would be too sad.

waiting4dh May 16th, 2007 11:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
he has to die, jo will feel pressured to right more if she doesn't, so i think she will have to!!!!!!! i think it'd be great if harry was a horcrux and to defeat him he must kill himself!!!!!that'd be perfect, i mean i know it's SO sad, but i don't know why, but I want it to end that why, don't ask why!

coolhandluke May 16th, 2007 11:45 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
He better not. It would have been a complete waste of time if he does and JKR will have ruined her own books with a pathetic ending just because she doesnt want to write any more about him.

SIRIUSlyawesome May 16th, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I doubt that Harry will die. He's been through so much, helped so much in the defeat of the Dark Lord. I think that we can all agree that Harry definatley deserves to see Voldemort good and dead, and live happily ever after.

I just can't see JK Rowling killing him.

LikeLuna May 17th, 2007 12:29 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting4dh (Post 4515422)
he has to die, jo will feel pressured to right more if she doesn't, so i think she will have to!!!!!!!

I don't think JKR could be "pressured" by anyone to add more to the series if she didn't want to.

LoveWeasleys May 17th, 2007 12:40 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coolhandluke (Post 4515435)
He better not. It would have been a complete waste of time if he does and JKR will have ruined her own books with a pathetic ending just because she doesnt want to write any more about him.

I don't want Harry to die (at all) But, afterall we have to remember that this Jo's story to tell. She knew how it would end before she began writing it. Even though it would be hard to take if Harry died, Jo wouldn't do it unless there was a reason and I am sure that she would take her along on her thought process...
Bottom line, its her story, and whether we would agree with our not, it is what it is. She has never killed off a character without a reason and she wouldn't do it to Harry either. :)

Hawk_Shade7 May 17th, 2007 2:37 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will have to die for his friends. To die like his mother did, in order to destroy Voldemort with Love. I don't believe he is a horcrux, but he would have to die, because love is the only way to destroy Voldemort.

JimmyPotter May 17th, 2007 3:29 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Regarding a message I posted earlier, I have now decided that it would in fact not make sense for the first chapter of the first book to be "The Boy Who Lived" if Harry dies at a young age in DH.

seeker85 May 17th, 2007 12:46 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
what if at the end of the story, he was known as the man who lived? seeings how hes 17 now

JerryCooke May 17th, 2007 1:55 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I know that Jo has said in interview that we presume too much in thinking that she's sentimental about culling characters, but I think the the broader connotations of allowing the central figure to die are all wrong. I think that a triumph over adversity sends the right message, however I guess that Harry could triumph in the killing of Voldemort but then die in the process, or get killed and take Voldemort down with him, so at most it's just speculation. I think the question is the motivation behind the final outcome of the series, whether JKR is putting forward a message of happiness and survival at the end, or of noble self-sacrifice (which she has already shown is something that Harry has a strong ability for). Also, and I'm sure this has been mentioned, Voldemort's death is something that I believe to be very likely, allowing such an evil person to survive at the end of the series just doesn't seem right and the relation of the prophecy to this makes it very clear (in my mind) that Voldemort will be killed, be it at Harry's hands or as a result of Harry's death.

Personally, I believe that Harry will survive, I certainly hope that he does.

Lillbet May 17th, 2007 4:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4514645)
However Jo is writing for herself not the movie the 300 so can you really make comparisons between her books and other stories/movies you may have read/seen?

Well... yes, actually. Do it all the time, in fact.

Like it or not, JKR (as a writer) is part of a literary tradition of heroes, epic stories, journeys, etc. She's a writer, and since one of the keys to becoming a successful writer is to read. For her not to be influenced by what she has read- whether it be the story of the Battle of Thermopylae, Joseph Campbell or whatever- would be the same as suggesting that she's lived under a rock for her entire life. And since most of us have read such stories in the course of our schooling, we're going to see those influences.

Simply stated: JKR has stated that she has cast Harry in the mold of the hero. "300" is based on an epic story featuring a hero- Leonidas, the king of Sparta, who fought against great odds and (apparently) lost. The story of the battle that Frank Miller based his comic on (on which, in turn, the movie was based) has been around for centuries, and influenced a lot of literature and movies, so has the basic hero archetype- on which JKR based Harry.

So yes, we can make those comparisons- both are epic stories featuring heroes overcoming great odds. As of this very moment we don't know if Harry will survive, but frankly it would be foolish to assume that he should, just "because."

ComicBookWorm May 17th, 2007 5:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4516462)
Simply stated: JKR has stated that she has cast Harry in the mold of the hero. "300" is based on an epic story featuring a hero- Leonidas, the king of Sparta, who fought against great odds and (apparently) lost. The story of the battle that Frank Miller based his comic on (on which, in turn, the movie was based) has been around for centuries, and influenced a lot of literature and movies, so has the basic hero archetype- on which JKR based Harry

That story originally came from a warrior culture that glorified death on the battlefield, so that other warriors would willingly fight to their deaths.

The 300 is not a perfect analogy to HP which is a coming of age fantasy adventure. Harry will come of age in DH. Typically the hero does survive in that kind of story, since the reader needs to see him prevail, thus validating his journey to manhood. A majority of the heroic mythss that Campbell summarized in his Hero's Journey, do have the hero survive since those stories focus on the personal growth of the protagonist.

Tolkien followed that path, although Frodo was emotionally and physically damaged by the trevail. I think LOTR is a closer fantasy analogy for HP.

Lillbet May 17th, 2007 6:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It seems my remarks were taken out of context. Let me see if I can be clear...er. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4516603)
The 300 is not a perfect analogy to HP which is a coming of age fantasy adventure. Harry will come of age in DH. Typically the hero does survive in that kind of story, since the reader needs to see him prevail, thus validating his journey to manhood. A majority of the heroic mythss that Campbell summarized in his Hero's Journey, do have the hero survive since those stories focus on the personal growth of the protagonist.

True (I've said so in other threads, in fact), but the point on which "300" was brought up was not the comparison between the two story arcs, but GabyPotter's response to my supposition that according to Campbell's definition of the hero Harry would have to return and pass on his knowledge:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabyPotter (Post 4512733)
Yeah, he'll probably pass on what he learned but he doesn't have to be alive to do that!... If you saw the movie 300, you'll undeerstand what I mean: Leonidas died and so the guy whose eye was poked out passed on his knowledge of Leonidas to other people to inspire them... so Leonidas' legacy continued even though he had died...

While I agree that part of the hero's journey is to pass along his knowledge, GabyPotter brings up the point that the knowledge can be passed on even if the hero dies.

Hopefully that made sense :)

ComicBookWorm May 17th, 2007 8:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4516617)
While I agree that part of the hero's journey is to pass along his knowledge, GabyPotter brings up the point that the knowledge can be passed on even if the hero dies.

In this case, I don't think that the knowledge Harry gains is what needs to be passed on. Myths typically have a moral lesson to convey. We've certainly gotten those in HP, but it has also been a journey of personal growth for a lonely impoverished little boy. A hero's journey is a series of challenges and transformations as the hero rises to the challenge. But in this case the coming of age story is equally important. And the hero usually lives in those stories since he does actually have to come of age.

alittlebird May 18th, 2007 12:37 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will die, not because of the option of future books(since that is always an option with a series like this). But because Harry is linked to Voldemort whether he likes it or not. For Harry to murder anyone he will probably become like Voldemort.
If Harry does die i believe that Ron will deliver the final blow, several members of the order will probably witness this but i think the facts about the final battle will remain vague and taken out of proportion(IE Skeeter doing what she does best)

But this is just all my speculation and although it makes sense to me i doubt any of this will come true

PaRTyGiRL089 May 18th, 2007 7:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i think Harry will die.

i feel like if Harry didn't die, that final book is not the final one, cause Harry still lives, which means the story of Harry Potter will still continue, and it will make all of us very happy that we will look for the eight book, so if the seventh book shouldn't be called the final book, if Harry doesn't die..

does that make sense?

seeker85 May 18th, 2007 1:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
ive thought about it and i dont really see how harry can die in the book. he has a few people that i think would save him. for one wormtail, he owes harry for letting him live, also i think snape will save him if needed. so i think he has a pretty good chance of living

Snapes_Angel2 May 18th, 2007 4:32 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk_Shade7 (Post 4515704)
I think Harry will have to die for his friends. To die like his mother did, in order to destroy Voldemort with Love. I don't believe he is a horcrux, but he would have to die, because love is the only way to destroy Voldemort.

I agree. I don't think Harry is a Horcrux either; but I do believe that he will end up dying in the end. I think that because of what you said about the fact that love is the only way to destroy Voldemort. The ultimate act of love is to die for a friend or family member; to sacrifive yourself so that the people you love and care about can live.

Voldemort would never be willing to die for any of his followers, and we know what he thought about his mother not staying alive for him when he was born; that is why Voldemort doesn't understand how strong the power of love is. Harry, on the other hand, knows what the power of love can do (considering that's the reason he's still alive today); and I think the only way Harry will be able to defeat Voldemort is by performing the ultimate sacrifice: Dying so that the ones he loves can survive and carry on.

Personally, I think that the biggest act of love that Harry can perform is dying for someone that he hates; which other than Voldemort (who he wouldn't die for anyway) happens to be Severus Snape. That would be the biggest act of sacrifice that I think Harry could perform. We;ve seen Severus portect Harry almost every year, so now it's Harry's time to return the favor.

Godrics_Souljah May 18th, 2007 5:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry will not die, but be willing to do so for Snape. I believe that Harry will find out something about Snape that will allow him to possibly love him. Similar, to how he hated Sirius until he found out that Wormtail was the one who betrayed his mother & father. It is at that moment when LV will be distracted long enough for Snape to deliver the final curse. Harry is the character who got the reprieve from JK.

Remember Harry's blood runs through LV's veins if he tries to kill Harry the hate in him will be at war with the blood of Harry that is full of love! That could prove to be fatal!

Snapes_Angel2 May 18th, 2007 5:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godrics_Souljah (Post 4518258)
Harry will not die, but be willing to do so for Snape. I believe that Harry will find out something about Snape that will allow him to possibly love him. Similar, to how he hated Sirius until he found out that Wormtail was the one who betrayed his mother & father. It is at that moment when LV will be distracted long enough for Snape to deliver the final curse. Harry is the character who got the reprieve from JK.

Actually, this does make sense :tu:

It's been said that Harry's capability to love will be what defeats Voldemort, but we are never told that Harry will be the one that delivers the final blow. If the senario that you have painted in your post plays out, then it will still be Harry's capability to love that defeats Voldemort, but he won't actually be the one that delivers the final blow; he'll have help.

Severus's character has been built up the last couple books, and it can't have been for nothing; and I like the possibilty that Severus will be the one who finishes off Voldemort while Harry has him distracted by his willingness to die for Severus.

TubaGuy23 May 18th, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't believe Harry will die. He has the ultimate weapon to defeat Voldemort with, Love. As long as he continues to love his friends and other people he will maintain the power to beat voldemort.

Also Harry cannot be a hocrux. LV was trying to kill him so why would he make him a hocrux?

Lillbet May 18th, 2007 6:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4516811)
In this case, I don't think that the knowledge Harry gains is what needs to be passed on. Myths typically have a moral lesson to convey. We've certainly gotten those in HP, but it has also been a journey of personal growth for a lonely impoverished little boy. A hero's journey is a series of challenges and transformations as the hero rises to the challenge. But in this case the coming of age story is equally important. And the hero usually lives in those stories since he does actually have to come of age.

Campbell states that the last stage of the hero's journey is to return and pass on what he's learned. In another thread, posters are discussing the monomyth and the journey and what Harry will do to pass on his knowledge.

The coming of age story is important, but theoretically Harry will be coming of age (literally) in the wizarding world in the 7th book in the summer before his 7th year. This means that all bets are off and that a.) he is no longer under the Dursley's protection and b.) he is considered a full-fledged adult in the wizarding world, which could arguably indicate that Book 7 is no longer part of a coming of age story but now part of the hero's journey. As in, this is the part where he girds his loins and goes to the ends of the earth (and possibly beyond the veil) to accomplish his task- the defeat of Voldemort.

JKR has said, again, that while she has been tempted to do so she has made it a point not to kill Harry off before the 7th book, which could mean that she will kill him off in the 7th, after his journey is complete (or at the apex of it). Should Harry defeat Voldemort with love as his weapon, and die in the attempt, the message of his success and the power of love to defeat evil would definitely be worth passing on. Especially given the tone of acrimony between most purebloods and, well, everyone else.

Using convention as an argument that Harry will survive is certainly valid, but I'm open to the possibility that JKR might not follow convention. Besides which, she's obviously got something up her sleeve since she won't spill any details for fear of hatemail :D

Reishabh May 18th, 2007 7:11 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I dont think she would kill harry. He's literally a legend now. She does not want to be the person to kill a legend does she? She would be boycotted if does such an atrocious thing. Remember Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? Remember Sherlok Homes?
OK, so he wasn't exactly boycotted, but he wasn't overly appreciated was he?

Lillbet May 18th, 2007 9:37 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reishabh (Post 4518451)
I dont think she would kill harry. He's literally a legend now. She does not want to be the person to kill a legend does she? She would be boycotted if does such an atrocious thing. Remember Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? Remember Sherlok Homes?
OK, so he wasn't exactly boycotted, but he wasn't overly appreciated was he?

As she keeps saying, she's had a plan from the beginning about what was going to happen- she says so on her site- how fans feel is not going to make a darn bit of difference to how she ends this. In the end, she's going to be true to her story, even if she has to break our hearts to do it. Regardless, there's little chance of fandom boycotting her because a.) the series will be over and the movies don't make much difference anyway, and b.) we're going to love her anyway, in spite of ourselves, for taking us on this amazing journey.

As for fear of fans, JKR has often refrained from giving details about the books before they are released because, she's often joked, she's afraid of hatemail.

Reishabh May 19th, 2007 9:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes, i suppose you could be right about us never being able to hate JK. It's just really hard to accept Harry's death. :) I just don't see it happening i guess.

inkling7 May 19th, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I doubt whether the fact she might get heaps of hate mail will change her mind about Harry living or dying as it will be a win-win situation for him if Ginny has the same fate. If he dies and Ginny does also then he will be happy to be with his parents, Sirius, Albus and Ginny. If he lives and so does Ginny then he has a whole new life with his love to look forward to and will build on that. If Ron and Hermione are there too it's an added bonus for him.

veelaQUEEN May 19th, 2007 3:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
im sorry if someone has already pointed this out...

i think that BOTH Harry and LV will die.
Harry and LV both have similarities, and Harry has a part of LV. Because of this, i think that if LV tries to kill Harry, it will kill him too, because he's kinda killing a part of him or something. (thats just a thought)
also, if Harry kills LV, maybe the impact of killing him will kill him as well.

eviljim13 May 20th, 2007 12:57 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It serves a certain dramatic function to keep you all convinced that Harry MUST die!?
But he will not.Harry will almost certainly ALMOST die-but he will not.....
Harry will live to comment on his best Quiditch moves..............
Harry will live thru Hell-BUT LIVE !!!
ps He is the boy who lived.The boy who lived will not be the Boy Who Died????????!!!!!!!!!
Definetely,Boy Who Lived:tu:

JimmyPotter May 20th, 2007 2:03 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reishabh (Post 4518451)
I dont think she would kill harry. He's literally a legend now. She does not want to be the person to kill a legend does she? She would be boycotted if does such an atrocious thing. Remember Sir Arthur Conan Doyle? Remember Sherlok Homes?
OK, so he wasn't exactly boycotted, but he wasn't overly appreciated was he?

When Arthur Conan Doyle had the detective seemingly killed off, the British Parliament considered a resolution calling for Doyle to be charged with the murder of Sherlock Holmes. Come to think of it, that would make for a good comedy sketch if Harry Potter does die, "The Trial of J. K. Rowling," where she is charged with murdering Harry Potter. Maybe they could get Dan Radcliffe to play the Ghost of Harry Potter.

I don't think Rowling is worried about hate mail because she almost certainly doesn't read it. Actually, she could conceivably get hate mail if she has Voldemort die. There are some people who think that everyone should be given every opportunity to repent and turn from their evil ways. They would say that she should have had Voldemort realize that what he did was wrong and turn over a new leaf.

LoveWeasleys May 20th, 2007 3:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyPotter (Post 4520743)
When Arthur Conan Doyle had the detective seemingly killed off, the British Parliament considered a resolution calling for Doyle to be charged with the murder of Sherlock Holmes. Come to think of it, that would make for a good comedy sketch if Harry Potter does die, "The Trial of J. K. Rowling," where she is charged with murdering Harry Potter. Maybe they could get Dan Radcliffe to play the Ghost of Harry Potter.

:lol: That would be funny! I didn't realize that happened with Doyle!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyPotter (Post 4520743)
There are some people who think that everyone should be given every opportunity to repent and turn from their evil ways. They would say that she should have had Voldemort realize that what he did was wrong and turn over a new leaf.

That is funny! Picturing LV turning a new leaf... Then maybe him and Harry (assuming Harry lives ;) ) can run through a field of daisies holding hands... :lol: Can you picture that ending? Especially when it comes to the movie sreen. :lol:

I guess I wouldn't mind it as long as Harry lives! ;) On second thought, there are worst things then death....

dreamy_eyes_xox May 21st, 2007 2:04 am

"Cirque Du Freak" Theory in HP perspectives...
 
I did a quick search and found nothing solely related to this topic in which im about to begin chatting on.

Cirque DU Freak by Darren Shan is an amzing book. Im going to use the Cirque Du Freak main picture into HP perspectives and then explain my theroys on the disscussion.

In CDF Steve Leopard and Darren Shan are the main characters. In my HP theory, Steve will be "Harry" and Darren will be "Neville."

Now as we all know, the prophecy could be meant for Harry or Neville. My theory is below.

In CDF, Darren Kills STeve, Steve kills Darren. MY TINY is mad.

In HP, Harry kills Voldy or Voldy kills him. Simple. Now, my theory is that Harry will atempt to kill VOldy and succed. Then some crazy meddeler (Neville at the current moment) will provoke Harry, and Harry will get VOldy to kill him. Or something like that

WHat Im basically trying to say is Voldy and Harry will both die.

agree? disagree? ideas? comments? put downs? pickups?
I WANT THEM ALL

Knox143 May 21st, 2007 11:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I have never believed JKR would kill off Harry. Also, I think the quote she made about understanding authors who kill off their main characters so other writers cannot write future sequels revealed she herself did not intend to kill off her own main character, ALTHOUGH she understood why writers may want to.

potatoesrock May 21st, 2007 11:22 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I agree Knox143. If JKR herself said it, it's not going to happen. She's never outright lied to us; if she can't tell us something, she doesn't say anything.

Bryant_C May 22nd, 2007 2:11 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If Harry does die I believe that he will become a ghost.

Daelin May 22nd, 2007 3:31 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I do not think Harry will die. Especially now that he has someone (Ginny) to live for.

Hinoema May 22nd, 2007 4:31 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
He pretty much can't, in my opinion. We pretty much know that Voldemort won't survive, so Harry has to live or the fancy wording in the prophecy is a waste of an interesting phrase.

catch128 May 22nd, 2007 4:56 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well as much as I like your idea about Harry using a timeturner to go back in time, they destroyed all the timetuners in book 5 in the Department of Mysteries, that's the whole reason harry ron and hermonie couldn't go back to Hagrids class care for magical creatures, they didn't have enough time in the day for all of their classes and Hermonie says that is the only reason they didn't come back.

I've talked to some people and one of them has a very interesting opinion on what will happen to Harry. She thinks that Harry will kill Voldermort but the effort it takes to do it will end up killing him also. I'm not sure I mean I don't want him to die, but on the other hand, if he is kept alive than that opens the world to another book explaining what happens to him after he fulfills the propency.

I've talked to some people and one of them has a very interesting opinion on what will happen to Harry. She thinks that Harry will kill Voldermort but the effort it takes to do it will end up killing him also. I'm not sure I mean I don't want him to die, but on the other hand, if he is kept alive than that opens the world to another book explaining what happens to him after he fulfills the propency.

I've talked to some people and one of them has a very interesting opinion on what will happen to Harry. She thinks that Harry will kill Voldermort but the effort it takes to do it will end up killing him also. I'm not sure I mean I don't want him to die, but on the other hand, if he is kept alive than that opens the world to another book explaining what happens to him after he fulfills the propency.

Wazlib May 22nd, 2007 7:20 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinoema (Post 4524832)
He pretty much can't, in my opinion. We pretty much know that Voldemort won't survive, so Harry has to live or the fancy wording in the prophecy is a waste of an interesting phrase.

I agree. The book can't end in Harry dying, and Voldemort surviving. And therefore, Harry is most likely going to live. Voldemort is going to die for sure, and personally I don't think Rowling will allow him to take Harry with him.
After all, this is a childrens book (or at least a youth-book) and certainly, the Hero can't die in a childrens book. I think people will be sad enough about the two main characters dying (we don't know who, but since they're main-characters, it has to be sad?), and if Harry dies, I think many people will have deep depressions!:p
Also, I don't like to think about it, but I see the possibility of Ginny dying (although, that's another thread!), in order for Harry to live.

Godrics_Souljah May 22nd, 2007 7:55 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant_C (Post 4524688)
If Harry does die I believe that he will become a ghost.

I doubt this because Harry would want to be with his family James, Lily, & Sirius. Nearly Headless Nick was afraid of death that's why he became a ghost. Harry has always been brave if he were to die he would go with his family behind the veil.

JimmyPotter May 23rd, 2007 3:29 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Actually, I think that Ginny dying would be a giveaway that Harry will also die. I have a hunch that Rowling will not break up the majoe couples through death, meaning that each person now shares the fate of his/her partner.

Daelin May 23rd, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
One of the things which help me through the series, is the fact that Ms. Rowling is a "moral" writer. Not that she insists on happy endings, much less predictable ones. But that her stories have a certain moral continuity to them, an internal logic which controls events as limits.

There are four basic possibilities:

[] Harry and Voldemort both live
[] Harry and Voldemort both die
[] Harry lives, Voldemort dies
[] Harry dies, Voldemort lives

Assuming there is anything at all to the prophecy, the first possibility has been eliminated. Besides, no one besides Albus Dumbledore would really be happy with letting Voldemort continue to live, it lacks a sense of conclusion which we all really need.

I think we cann all agree that none of us would stand for the last contention. Voldemort has to die, we avow, and the very idea that Voldemort would get what he wants and the whole series would end in Harry's meaningless death is insane.

So that leaves us with a dead Dark Lord, and a question mark over Harry. Some here have observed that the prophecy says "either" must die , not both, and I agree with that. Also, just from a personal point of view, Harry is the "Boy Who Lived", not the "Boy Who Lived ... Until He got Killed by the Bad Guy Anyway". I just don't buy that all the sacrifices made for Harry, from his dad and mom, to friends and allies including Cedric and Albus Dumbledore, were just so he could die later.

Harry lives, Voldemort bites it. Final answer.

Lillbet May 23rd, 2007 5:19 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4526446)
Harry lives, Voldemort bites it. Final answer.

Careful there. Final answer for you, maybe. We won't know until July for sure :p

I agree, if Harry dies then it would be meaningless if Voldemort survives and escapes justice. On the other hand, if Harry dies and takes Voldemort with him, that would certainly be in line with the "moral" and "unpredictable" streak we've seen in the books so far.


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