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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

Ronny June 9th, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Pardon? I'm sorry but I didn't understand what you just wrote.

inkling7 June 9th, 2007 4:36 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Ok will he do a Sherlock Holmes or Agatha Christie and just disappear until everyone has forgotten about him? No as this idea too predictable and boring. So he will just fade out of our lives temporarily until he can live a reasonably normal life? I hope so.......

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 4:55 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Agatha Christie killed Poirot at the end of the final book; she did not want others to continue writing him after her death. I think that copyright holds for ninety years after an authors death (could be wrong) and after that the books and characters are open season, as in there is no longer an estate of the author you can apply to, to use the characters, plots etc. Lots of famous books have non - author written sequels, Pride and Prejudice and Gone with the wind, are just two.

That being said I do not see JKR killing Harry because she fears that other authors will start writing about him after she is no longer with us. If he is to die it will be in service to the plot and themes of her novels and what she thinks is the most appropriate ending to Harry's story. Even if he lives we will in all likelihood never get to read about it. We will finish DH, probably howl uncontrollably over the epilogue (no matter what happens) and that unfortunately will be the end of Harry's story (live or die) and our journey with him. I for one am just incredibly grateful we got a chance to enjoy the world and life’s of the characters at all. Okay now I am going to cry. :no:

Edit: Copyright holds for fifty years after an author’s death. Do not for the life of me know where I not ninety. Agatha Christie, only died over thirty years ago and her estate is managed by her grandson. By all accounts he runs it with an iron fist and the estate itself is worth hundreds of millions. The same is true of C.S Lewis estate which is run by his stepson. In all probability the estate of JK Rowling will many years in the future be run in a similar fashion, which means that in our lifetime we are unlikely to see any sort of sequel, relating to any of the characters or indeed different characters at Hogwarts. I really do not see her killing Harry with regard to debate she had on Richard and Judy relating to Conan Doyle or indeed Poirot.

Garnie June 10th, 2007 12:51 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
harry will survive! his chances are slim but i recon he will!
iv got a bet with some people on eoff about this! lol

lancane June 10th, 2007 3:40 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4557865)
But if Harry lives what will his victory be? Until the day he lies old and dying he will have no peace. Killing Voldemort does not kill those who loved him and they will target Potter, they will hound him and his friends until he's dead. And so a young man who just wants to live his life will also need to cope with the celebrity his inevitable victory will bring. What kind of life is that? All those who could have steered him down the right path are gone.

Victory and worth is in the eyes of the beholder! - So I gander you think that because of fame, he should die? Yes, he has lost almost all those he loves, but you can learn to love again; this is not Gandolf - Death is but another adventure... Especially in our world where there are vastly different beliefs of the after-life. Like I stated before, if he was 30 or so and had a good life, then I could see death as a way out as a bit of a noble victory, but he is barely a man and his life has been nothing short of tragic.

By saying one is noble to die for a cause they believe in, we give credit more to those whom value little of life: Gangs, Terrorists and so on, and this may be just literature to many; but literature changed the face of the planet, we have always told tales to escape the realism of life, same with television and movies...look at the bible and what it did, do we actually know if it is real? No, but it caused a shift in beliefs. Any form of literature can do the same and shift one's opinion as long as it is accepted by masses, death to be noble - then those whom kill for a cause they believe, whether right or wrong to them would be noble...Shakespear and Plato? They changed works of acting and philosophy, all it takes is the valued popularity to give one or a few the wrong ideas.

Do not believe for a moment that I am one of them forward christians whom think Potter is damnation to our children, all I am saying is that it will effect the masses whom read the books; Rowling has already stated that she does feel some could take the literature more deeply then others, so she knows it will effect others more feverishly. This is not Salvatore we are talking about who has many fans; this is the largest icon in the history of literature...Harry that is, and it is a fact. You kill and icon and in such a manner, then some will take it farther then expected by either believing it justifies their actions or gives them cause.

My biggest thing is that no matter the obscurity it holds; these novels went from children to teens, but knowing the esculation of violence among teens: such as gangs and hoodlum actions; if we say it is alright to suffer, to never truly have a life and to sacrifice yourself for a just cause - you believe in, then we give them that notion; that is why most literature, television and movies have a somewhat aggreable ending, or as happy to one as possible. We americans glorify mass murder and killers by allowing them to have novel deals and movies; other countries are not so, and we have the highest crime and murder rate in the world. No violence is justified, and we have far too many kids killing each other (school & gang shootings) then any other country.

Maybe it is just me, but we need happier stories to subdue the horrors of reality that we ourslelves created. Too many children are abused and treated poorly - much like Harry, and to say death is a true escape, we might as well hand out razorblades to those who try to help scuicidal teens, so they can just help them do what they feel is right. It is sad that many are glorifying Harry's death if that happens, when what they should be doing is hoping he lives, to finally have a good life, to me that is what makes a story worthy. Because there would be more truth in that then death, to struggle on after losing so much, that is life...not I lost it all, so I will kill you and die myself.

Moriath June 10th, 2007 9:54 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
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Ronny June 10th, 2007 10:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't want this topic ruined so I'll keep it as civil as I can. Those families within the Potterverse who agree with Lord Voldermort will always be a problem and Harry will face hostility once he wins. He will also be hounded by a media every bit as dishonest and unethical as our own. He has to deal with the loss of Dumbledore, Sirius and his parents. Pain that will never truly leave him. That is not a happy life. A happy life would be if he could forget all his misfortunes but that is not possible as, over time, our pain defines us and makes us stronger. Without grief we are not complete. I mean, I don't know what Rowling will do, that's her business, but (And I am being as polite as I can here) she should not be dictated to because a certain group of people have decided to hold her up as a role model. She has no responsibility for the feelings of others.

mysterious June 10th, 2007 1:21 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4559436)
I don't want this topic ruined so I'll keep it as civil as I can. Those families within the Potterverse who agree with Lord Voldermort will always be a problem and Harry will face hostility once he wins. He will also be hounded by a media every bit as dishonest and unethical as our own. He has to deal with the loss of Dumbledore, Sirius and his parents. Pain that will never truly leave him. That is not a happy life. A happy life would be if he could forget all his misfortunes but that is not possible as, over time, our pain defines us and makes us stronger. Without grief we are not complete. I mean, I don't know what Rowling will do, that's her business, but (And I am being as polite as I can here) she should not be dictated to because a certain group of people have decided to hold her up as a role model. She has no responsibility for the feelings of others.

So you are suggesting....that Harry will die? :huh:

Hinoema June 10th, 2007 1:34 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think he's saying that Jo shouldn't let Harry live only because of potential fan reaction. No fears there; she's had the ending planned (and penned) long since and doesn't write to please fans.

I still stick by my main reason for his survival- the prophecy is very either-or, and to kill both would make the whole 'neither-other' semantic inapplicable.

inkling7 June 10th, 2007 3:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Good point about the prophecy Hinoema. That's exactly the way I read and interpreted the prophecy. It's got to be either one or the other but not both or neither (or should I say not neither nor but either or).

By the way I love your Weasley Wake Ups.

sweets7 June 10th, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lancane (Post 4559103)
Maybe it is just me, but we need happier stories to subdue the horrors of reality that we ourslelves created. Too many children are abused and treated poorly - much like Harry, and to say death is a true escape, we might as well hand out razorblades to those who try to help scuicidal teens, so they can just help them do what they feel is right. It is sad that many are glorifying Harry's death if that happens, when what they should be doing is hoping he lives, to finally have a good life, to me that is what makes a story worthy. Because there would be more truth in that then death, to struggle on after losing so much, that is life...not I lost it all, so I will kill you and die myself.

I do not really see any of these concerns influencing the way that JKR completes the novels. My goodness if she did she would go crazy. My friend said a very apt thing to me the other day, while we were watching 'the lives of others'. She said that while we really hope for a nice, sweet ending for the characters in films/books that is not always what is best for the story or indeed this type of ending would in many cases, diminish the story.

Harry Potter stories are books, just that. They are something of a phenomenon and are read by a wide variety of people but they are today, ten years, a hundred years from now just a piece of literature. JKR has no responsibility to society, the hard core fans, and the masses, just to her story. I think it is taking it too far to say it is responsible for the behaviour or enlightenment of society and that this is why it should end happily and sweet. If that is truly the case I for one would be terribly alarmed. A book is a book, a world constructed in the imagination of the author. Society is the responsibility of us all. One women is not responsible for that or indeed should take any responsibility in trying to improve it through a book.

ShadowAngel June 10th, 2007 3:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I believe Harry will die,and this is merely a theory that i've come up with since reading all the harry potter books for the past week,I think harry might in fact be one of the horcrux's(not sure if i spelt that right).When Voldemort killed harry's parents,he ended up transferring some of his power into harry(re-watch movie 1 and 2).For example,the fact that both Harry and Voldemort are both parselmouths.So if Harry is indeed a horcrux he would have to destory himself in order to get rid of Voldemort.

However,this doesn't make since to me,because if Harry was indeed one of the horcrux why would Voldemort try to kill him so many times?I guess I gotta try to figure out the rest.

If this theory isn't true then I do still believe that Harry will die,trying to protect his friends.

inkling7 June 10th, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Then if we interpret the prophecy as neither can live while the other survives as meaning that if Harry dies then Voldemort will live? (Was that the way the prophecy was worded? I can't remember now and the books aren't handy so please forgive any misquotes.)

_horcruxgirl_ June 10th, 2007 5:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
In my opinion Jk Rowling is going to kill Harry. There are these reasons for my opinion: dying for protecting one of his friends or if he is a horcrux. And killing Harry would do Jk rowling a favour : to complete the HP series. If she leaves him alive we (the fans) would want more books so that we could know what's going to happen to Harry.

Spritey June 10th, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4559915)
Then if we interpret the prophecy as neither can live while the other survives as meaning that if Harry dies then Voldemort will live? (Was that the way the prophecy was worded? I can't remember now and the books aren't handy so please forgive any misquotes.)

OotP"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... And the Dark Lord will mark him as equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives."


Though I honestly find it very hard to use the Prophecy as a jumping off point for theorising, since Jo seems to have made it clear (from my readings, at least, but all this Macbeth stuff throws my brain out of loop) that the only thing making Harry do anything now is his own drive to bring Voldemort down. It's like Dumbledore said, "You are setting too much store by the Prophecy!" I just find it hard to draw many conclusions based on it after all that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny
I don't want this topic ruined so I'll keep it as civil as I can. Those families within the Potterverse who agree with Lord Voldermort will always be a problem and Harry will face hostility once he wins. He will also be hounded by a media every bit as dishonest and unethical as our own. He has to deal with the loss of Dumbledore, Sirius and his parents. Pain that will never truly leave him. That is not a happy life. A happy life would be if he could forget all his misfortunes but that is not possible as, over time, our pain defines us and makes us stronger. Without grief we are not complete. I mean, I don't know what Rowling will do, that's her business, but (And I am being as polite as I can here) she should not be dictated to because a certain group of people have decided to hold her up as a role model. She has no responsibility for the feelings of others.

I disagree. If he dies, I really don't think that will be why.

inkling7 June 11th, 2007 6:04 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It also how you define living. If niether can live it may be that they can't have a life - as in quality of life and not qantity ie. length as in a long life while the other person is around - simply because Voldemort chooses to finish off Harry because he knows and believes in part of the prophecy. Harry can't have a 'life' knowing Voldemort is always going to be after him to finish him off and Voldemort - well he hasn't got much of a life anyway - he so obsessed with the prophecy and his being around forever.

beth83 June 12th, 2007 2:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4558011)
.
Edit: Copyright holds for fifty years after an author’s death. Do not for the life of me know where I not ninety. Agatha Christie, only died over thirty years ago and her estate is managed by her grandson. By all accounts he runs it with an iron fist and the estate itself is worth hundreds of millions. The same is true of C.S Lewis estate which is run by his stepson. In all probability the estate of JK Rowling will many years in the future be run in a similar fashion, which means that in our lifetime we are unlikely to see any sort of sequel, relating to any of the characters or indeed different characters at Hogwarts. I really do not see her killing Harry with regard to debate she had on Richard and Judy relating to Conan Doyle or indeed Poirot.

if memory serves me right c s lewis (or it could have been tolkein) sold the rights of his works to his son for £1. this way the copyrights would go to him. he is still living so the copyright remains in the family. slightly off topic sorry.

i can't see harry dying. yeah okay dumbledore says that he is paying to much attention to the prophecy, but as harry is still standing by it in theory it still applies. harry himself says at one point (no book so paraphrasing) i must be murdered or murderer.

as i can't see voldemort winning by any shot of imagination i still think voldemort will die (or suffer the fate worse than death) and harry will live.

sweets7 June 12th, 2007 9:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beth83 (Post 4563642)
if memory serves me right c s lewis (or it could have been tolkein) sold the rights of his works to his son for £1. this way the copyrights would go to him. he is still living so the copyright remains in the family. slightly off topic

CS Lewis did not have any children only two Stepsons. He may have sold one of them the rights. I believe (could be wrong) that unless you sell or make alternative arrangements for your books or whatever, before your death, that it will automatically, as a rule of inheritance law pass to your nearest living relative. JM Barrie made arrangements before his death to leave the Peter Pan copyright to Great Ormonde St. Massive estates like those of CS Lewis and Agatha Christie are probably run by a board of people though.

EternalGryffon June 12th, 2007 10:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lancane (Post 4559103)
Victory and worth is in the eyes of the beholder! - So I gander you think that because of fame, he should die? Yes, he has lost almost all those he loves, but you can learn to love again; this is not Gandolf - Death is but another adventure... Especially in our world where there are vastly different beliefs of the after-life. Like I stated before, if he was 30 or so and had a good life, then I could see death as a way out as a bit of a noble victory, but he is barely a man and his life has been nothing short of tragic.

By saying one is noble to die for a cause they believe in, we give credit more to those whom value little of life: Gangs, Terrorists and so on, and this may be just literature to many; but literature changed the face of the planet, we have always told tales to escape the realism of life, same with television and movies...look at the bible and what it did, do we actually know if it is real? No, but it caused a shift in beliefs. Any form of literature can do the same and shift one's opinion as long as it is accepted by masses, death to be noble - then those whom kill for a cause they believe, whether right or wrong to them would be noble...Shakespear and Plato? They changed works of acting and philosophy, all it takes is the valued popularity to give one or a few the wrong ideas.

Do not believe for a moment that I am one of them forward christians whom think Potter is damnation to our children, all I am saying is that it will effect the masses whom read the books; Rowling has already stated that she does feel some could take the literature more deeply then others, so she knows it will effect others more feverishly. This is not Salvatore we are talking about who has many fans; this is the largest icon in the history of literature...Harry that is, and it is a fact. You kill and icon and in such a manner, then some will take it farther then expected by either believing it justifies their actions or gives them cause.

My biggest thing is that no matter the obscurity it holds; these novels went from children to teens, but knowing the esculation of violence among teens: such as gangs and hoodlum actions; if we say it is alright to suffer, to never truly have a life and to sacrifice yourself for a just cause - you believe in, then we give them that notion; that is why most literature, television and movies have a somewhat aggreable ending, or as happy to one as possible. We americans glorify mass murder and killers by allowing them to have novel deals and movies; other countries are not so, and we have the highest crime and murder rate in the world. No violence is justified, and we have far too many kids killing each other (school & gang shootings) then any other country.

Maybe it is just me, but we need happier stories to subdue the horrors of reality that we ourslelves created. Too many children are abused and treated poorly - much like Harry, and to say death is a true escape, we might as well hand out razorblades to those who try to help scuicidal teens, so they can just help them do what they feel is right. It is sad that many are glorifying Harry's death if that happens, when what they should be doing is hoping he lives, to finally have a good life, to me that is what makes a story worthy. Because there would be more truth in that then death, to struggle on after losing so much, that is life...not I lost it all, so I will kill you and die myself.

I agree with you 100%. After all, we just started to see the beginnings of a romance with Ginny in HBP. Why should Harry have to die defeating Voldemort? I feel it is more likely that Snape will show his true colors and die protecting Harry so that Harry may destroy Voldemort.:love:

JustAnIllusion June 13th, 2007 12:32 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Wow! Loads of thread pages. My eyes are tired from zooming from one side of the screen to the other =] I'm going to place my opinions beneath some of the common ideas and then add some of my own. I've just finished the mugglenet.com prediction book [which is fabulous!] and it's sparked loads of theories, which are now fireworking in my head.

I'm going to begin with: Yes, I believe that without a doubt, Harry should and shall survive through Book Seven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlightMagic (Post 4447575)
I don't think she would dare kill of Harry.. However, it would prevent people from ragging on J.K. Rowling about writing an eighth book.
At this point, I have my idea on what's going to happen, but I highly doubt it's right ;).

Oh; I've heard the "nobody can pressure her to write another if Harry dies..." theory stated, blocked, and stated once more.

As many have used as a deflection already, JKR wrote the last chapter of the series before she even had a publisher. Therefore, she ended the story how she believed it should be finished. The ragging on of fans didn't affect who lived and who died. :no:

As many have also said, JKR is going to write the book how she wishes to write the book. She's strong, and will surely write another captivating story about something or somebody else. I doubt she'll quit being an author just because HP is over, and will request an audience for her new book or books. Pressure by fans is not going to affect whether she feels Harry should or shouldn't die.

Finally, as only few have not stated:
Whether Harry lives or dies, there are going to be countless fans begging her to write another story in the magical world of wizardry. Many will want to see a second generation thing, or perhaps a series about the Marauders' era? There's always going to be evil, or a dark wizard attempting to undermine the good in society, and unless she destroys the wizarding world completely, there will always be something else for her to write about. Thus, Fanboys and fangirls will always be begging her for more.

I think that by writing a nice epilogue based on how Harry spent his life with Ginny, she would prevent future books just as well as killing Harry off. It would actually give fans more closure, and provide further evidence of underlying themes that are constantly present in every story.

Why would somebody want an 800 page novel on Harry's quiet, yet blissfully peaceful homelife? :rockon: They may still beg for the story Harry descendent, a hundred years later, fighting the evil whatever-his-name-would-be, but that would come no matter how the series ends.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Megg001 (Post 4446904)
Here's my two cents:
"Neither can live while the other survives" seems to imply that one or the other will have to die. We know that Voldemort can "survive" without being "alive" so, my feelings are, that this is where Jo was careful about her wording. It seems to me that if Harry dies, either sacrifices himself for a friend or just dies in battle, then the series has a very good chance of ending with Voldemort basically taking over the whole wizarding world. I don't think, or at least I don't want to believe, that Jo would do this...so, if someone is going to die, it won't be Harry (in my opinion, of course!)

I doubt that Voldemort would take over the wizarding world as the end to the series. Fans would freak out and ask for a new story with a new wizard to defeat him.

Though I'm on the fence about what the prophecy actually entails, I do agree that careful reading is the key to solving the puzzle. After describing the points of the prophecy separately, and in easy to understand statements, there is the following quote:

Quote:

There are braod and ambiruous statements, but that is no accident. On her website, J.K.R. has told us more than once that the prophecy can be interpreted in a number of ways, and that it requires very careful reading.
The rest refers to the prophecy being set in motion, etc. etc.
The prophecy's connection to Harry's death is only found after careful examination of the prophecy's words, and the order of such. Many people have posted it; Neither can live while the other survives.

At face value, one immediately believes that the wording is simple. They can't both live at the same time. One has to die for the other to remain living. Ultimately, one will destroy the other.

Right?

Perhaps.

My personal opinion is that the prophecy is very straightforward. To include the term "survives", one will most likely survive.

And I think it's safe to say that the one will not be Voldemort. :cool:

scienceofsleep June 13th, 2007 4:37 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
ive stated my theeories on this thread many times on my strong belief that harry will survive.
also, the first chapter of the first book was 'The Boy Who Lived'.

Come on, do you REALLLLY think JKR would end it with a 'the boy who lived (for 17 years. but guess what? lily's sacrifice was a waste, he ended up dying. TUFFFFF)'.

yeah he's going to go througha hell of a struggle and see deaths he cant handle, and get so scarred emotionally (and physically maybe) that even after defeating voldemort living would seem worthless. But this is Harry Potter. And in the end, good suffers yeah of course, but good wins. it doesnt matter what the hell kind of twist miss.rowlings going to introduce but its not going to be a 'evil wins' idea. too many sacrifices have been made just for harry to live and defeat LV. if he is to beat LV and DIE in the process its just another chain of 'sacrificing for the better of everyone', and i think thats been dug into too deeply to make another move exactly like that. Harry deserves to live. i really dont think she began writing a book about an 11 year old boy wizard who goes through mind boggling trauma every year in temporarily thwarting voldemort to end with the boy finishing LV for good but also himself.

HARRY LIVES =D (... hopefully)

Lillbet June 13th, 2007 3:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4565121)
ive stated my theeories on this thread many times on my strong belief that harry will survive.
also, the first chapter of the first book was 'The Boy Who Lived'.

Come on, do you REALLLLY think JKR would end it with a 'the boy who lived (for 17 years. but guess what? lily's sacrifice was a waste, he ended up dying. TUFFFFF)'.

So then the last chapter would be called "The Boy Who Died." That was 6 books ago and the history of 11 years of Harry's anonymous life- in the meantime The Boy Who Lived has become "The Boy Who Scored", "The Boy Who Broke A Lot of Rules", "The Boy Who Snogged", and "The Boy Who Had a Hissy Fit." That doesn't mean he will or won't die.

I agree that it would really bite if he did die, but in the end JKR planned this ending years ago when she wrote it out- before we all fell in love with our marvelous, bespectacled, fallible Harry and wanted him to live.

scienceofsleep June 13th, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
you have a good point, but im not really basing my argument on the idea of the audience falling in love with harry preventing JKR to not kill him off, im just implying that in the way she herself began writing the books and the style that the books follow really do hint to me that harry will live, and that thats what was planned from the start, long before the fans kicked in.

hedwiiig June 13th, 2007 4:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry either has to murder Voldy or he dies. I think he'll live. For Ron and Hermione, I'm not so sure.

Lillbet June 13th, 2007 7:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4565653)
you have a good point, but im not really basing my argument on the idea of the audience falling in love with harry preventing JKR to not kill him off, im just implying that in the way she herself began writing the books and the style that the books follow really do hint to me that harry will live, and that thats what was planned from the start, long before the fans kicked in.

I haven't read your theories, to be fair- I think my reaction stemmed from reading this: Come on, do you REALLLLY think JKR would end it with a 'the boy who lived (for 17 years. but guess what? lily's sacrifice was a waste, he ended up dying. TUFFFFF)'.

I've read the books as well yet I'm operating from a totally different perspective. For example, it seems perfectly logical to me that, because after 6 books Harry still can't seem to figure out that he needs his friends, he's going to lose them- or have to lose himself to save them. Harry may be Dumbledore's man, but he's also rash, overemotional, immature, rejecting any source of help or comfort, and he has no idea where to begin in his hunt- plus, the stakes are so much higher now than in the previous books. If all of that doesn't spell death I don't know what does. The fact that he's managed to survive thus far is wonderful, but the potential for him to botch the whole thing is there- starting with his rejection of Ginny, Ron and Hermione.

What I'm hoping for, the more I consider it, is that over the course of the final book Harry gets a good swift dose of reality that might help him save himself, but from the moment I finished HBP I was certain he would die and in this very moment, as I write and up until the book is in my hands and I'm reading the part where he actually doesn't die, I "REALLLLY" think he will. And if we're playing the JKR-card: she's killed off an innocent kid (Cedric), a doting godfather (Sirius), and a mentor (Dumbledore); she created a schism in a happy family (Percy); demoted an authority figure for paranoia and bad judgment (Fudge); put a drunkard in the Hogwarts staff room (Trelawney), and had a beloved character sent to prison (Hagrid). The "style" is that (as Voldemort says) Harry loses everything- taking that extra step to imply that he dies isn't that much of a stretch.

Just my two Knuts (wish I'd thought of that first, but another poster did :) )

sweets7 June 13th, 2007 8:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4566216)
Harry may be Dumbledore's man, but he's also rash, overemotional, immature, rejecting any source of help or comfort, and he has no idea where to begin in his hunt

You forgot pathologically uncurious, common Harry; please ask Lupin a few questions about your parents. We would like to know; their jobs, their work for the order, everything, please please please

As a piece of literature, a Harry that sacrifices himself for the love of friends and their lifes, is very poignant and very powerful. If he does die, the end of the book will still have ameasure of happiness in the lifes, and a sense of being uplifted. If he lives that will not change; other characters we like are going to die anyway.

Muggle_George June 13th, 2007 9:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Evidence suggesting that he will:

Harry has a bit of Voldemort inside him (he recieved some of his powers on the night of his parents' death) and thus the evil energy will never be completely destroyed until Harry AND Voldemort are killed. Also, Harry's blood now runs through the Dark Lord's veins (GoF) and so their fates are too interconnected to not die together.

JK has set up the love connection between Ron and Hermione so Harry can die and there will still be a happy love story ending. (Ginny's going to have to suck it up!)

He will follow in Dumbledore's footsteps. There have been many parallels between his life and Dumbledore's and it would make sense for him to die nobly for a cause.

JK seems very adamant about finishing the Harry Potter series after this book, and she will never stop being pressured into writing a new one unless she kills Harry off. Plus she says that she is sure the story will end after book seven and that there is no chance that it could continue. This doesn't necessarily mean that Harry will die, but it suggests it.
Evidence suggesting he won't:

It's a book that is sort of intended for children (it's not really though, but that's what it says, anyway). JK seems to be a fan of good always prevailing in the end and it would be very different if Harry died.

SO MANY people think he will die that it is almost considered to be a fact and JK has never ended a Harry Potter book predictibly yet. By killing Harry she would be giving the readers exactly what they thought was coming, and I think it would be an even bigger surprise to make him live. His impendding death is so overly hyped and expected that it would blow readers' minds if the series ended in some other way.



There are some facts I have taken into account. I think about them every day and I can't decide whether he will live or die. I think that no matter what people think, it's still a toss-up. We never can be sure when it comes to Harry Potter, but we know whatever JK does, it will be the best thing possible.

HAVortexDude June 14th, 2007 3:36 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that Harry will live, but will not come out the same. Maybe he loses his magical ability or something else. I just find the fact that he has one brown eye and one green eye on the US cover for Deathly Hallows very important.

Muggle_George June 14th, 2007 10:55 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I agree with the eye color thing. JK wouldn't just put that in for no reason. Maybe since Green is the color of Slytherin, his green eye represents the piece of voldemort that is inside him that was transferred to him on the night of his parents' deaths. And maybe this book will be all about the internal battle that rages inside Harry between himself (the side of good) and his connection to Voldemort that he does not like but is forced to possess. Just a thought.

JustAnIllusion June 14th, 2007 11:22 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4565639)
So then the last chapter would be called "The Boy Who Died." That was 6 books ago and the history of 11 years of Harry's anonymous life- in the meantime The Boy Who Lived has become "The Boy Who Scored", "The Boy Who Broke A Lot of Rules", "The Boy Who Snogged", and "The Boy Who Had a Hissy Fit." That doesn't mean he will or won't die.

I agree that it would really bite if he did die, but in the end JKR planned this ending years ago when she wrote it out- before we all fell in love with our marvelous, bespectacled, fallible Harry and wanted him to live.

I think that the important point is that JK fell in love with the marvelous, bespectacled, fallible Harry, and wants him to live. :tu: We fell in love as well, but she'll end the story how she wants to. She wouldn't have given him his friends, as well as Ginny, if she didn't plan for him to live on.

I don't see this story as a tragedy. :no:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggle_George (Post 4568662)
I agree with the eye color thing. JK wouldn't just put that in for no reason. Maybe since Green is the color of Slytherin, his green eye represents the piece of voldemort that is inside him that was transferred to him on the night of his parents' deaths. And maybe this book will be all about the internal battle that rages inside Harry between himself (the side of good) and his connection to Voldemort that he does not like but is forced to possess. Just a thought.

I agree and disagree. There is a battle raging within Harry [if he is a horcrux and/or contains a bit of Voldie], but I think it is the choice between what is right and what is easy, whether he should accept help, and battling love versus hate. The green eye[s], however, came from Lily, so I don't see how that would represent evil. If anything, it represents love. :love:

I think that by defeating Voldemort, Harry will live, but as many said, he will be changed. The eye color change may represent that. The loss of the green might also represent Harry accepting the loss of his parents, and moving on with his new family [meaning his friends and Ginny :rockon:].

sweets7 June 15th, 2007 1:00 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion (Post 4568702)
She wouldn't have given him his friends, as well as Ginny, if she didn't plan for him to live on.

Course she would, it would be unrealistic otherwise. It is this that would give his death more bite. The pain of those who have to struggle on; the future that will never be. Not saying he will die, totally ambivalent about it

JustAnIllusion June 15th, 2007 1:59 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4568848)
Course she would, it would be unrealistic otherwise. It is this that would give his death more bite. The pain of those who have to struggle on; the future that will never be. Not saying he will die, totally ambivalent about it

I definitely agree that it would be unrealistic. I disagree that JKR would intensify the bite of Harry's death [which I believe will not occur until he's a very old wizard...]. If JKR killed Harry, then I doubt that she would do it in the form of a tragedy. Harry, IMO, doesn't seem to show traits of an epic/tragic hero. :no:

I think the way the JKR appears to feel about Harry and Ginny's relationship [of course I'm simply infering] shows that they've got a future. It seems that she's giving him a reason to live on, rather than leave his pained life to join his family behind the veil. She's giving him a future. Taking it away would be cruel, for all the characters as well as the readers.

Those aren't the lessons that have been portrayed throughout the previous books. I doubt she'll spring it on us now.

stunnedtina June 15th, 2007 3:08 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I believe that Harry will live. I've went both ways on speculating. If he dies I think the fans will really be let down. He is the main character of the books, the title character and I just can't see Harry dying. I know that there have been tons of books out there where the main character of the book dies and it ends up being a fitting end.
With Harry though, I want to know he has a good life. He has something after defeating Voldemort and goes on with his life and makes something great of it.
His parents have died, his God father, his mentor and head of Hogwarts. I mean it would be incredibly sad and heartbreaking for the Hero of the story to die.
I vote that he'll live!

WandaEvans June 15th, 2007 9:40 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No. Harry will not die.

Either Harry is the one who was spared (and then Ron & Hermione bite it) OR

Ron is the one who was spared and Fred & George bite it.

Either way, Harry lives (and so does Ron).

Taylor_Elise June 15th, 2007 10:34 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It's difficult to fully comprehend or guess at what will happen in the last installment because obviously Jo doesn't want it to be incredibly predictable. However, I think she leaves us enough clues throughout the series so that we can at least take a stab at what might happen.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but here's what I think will happen:

Harry has to find the Horcruxes to defeat Voldemort, firstly. Now, it's interesting to note that when Harry went with Dumbledore to the cave in search of a Horcrux in HBP, the whole time I felt it was painfully obvious that Harry was far too inexperienced to have done that on his own...
But in summary, during Harry's search for the Horcruxes, his loyal friends Ron and Hermione will be there to help. Perhaps one or both of them will die in this quest, but my hypothesis is that Ron, who is more Harry's best friend than Hermione, will somehow attempt to spare Harry or save him from something by standing in the way and Ron will die instead. In short, Harry will ultimately, literally as Jo says it must be, face Voldemort completely alone, no friends, no mentors, no nothing.

Eventually, as close as I can get to the ending, I say that Harry faces Voldemort alone, Ron has died, Hermione is quite possibly injured, and Voldemort and Harry end up killing each other. I still can't quite see Harry using Avada Kedavra yet, but perhaps there's some developing we'll see yet in our main character. But I don't see Harry surviving this encounter--he's gone through too much and lost too much, not to mention his death would result in his reunion with family & Dumbledore.

This is just my theory, though, and again sorry if it's been brought up before, I'm still fairly new to forums! :)

Anyone have anything to add or agree on with this?

sparkly June 16th, 2007 2:17 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor_Elise (Post 4570525)
It's difficult to fully comprehend or guess at what will happen in the last installment because obviously Jo doesn't want it to be incredibly predictable. However, I think she leaves us enough clues throughout the series so that we can at least take a stab at what might happen.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but here's what I think will happen:

Harry has to find the Horcruxes to defeat Voldemort, firstly. Now, it's interesting to note that when Harry went with Dumbledore to the cave in search of a Horcrux in HBP, the whole time I felt it was painfully obvious that Harry was far too inexperienced to have done that on his own...
But in summary, during Harry's search for the Horcruxes, his loyal friends Ron and Hermione will be there to help. Perhaps one or both of them will die in this quest, but my hypothesis is that Ron, who is more Harry's best friend than Hermione, will somehow attempt to spare Harry or save him from something by standing in the way and Ron will die instead. In short, Harry will ultimately, literally as Jo says it must be, face Voldemort completely alone, no friends, no mentors, no nothing.

Eventually, as close as I can get to the ending, I say that Harry faces Voldemort alone, Ron has died, Hermione is quite possibly injured, and Voldemort and Harry end up killing each other. I still can't quite see Harry using Avada Kedavra yet, but perhaps there's some developing we'll see yet in our main character. But I don't see Harry surviving this encounter--he's gone through too much and lost too much, not to mention his death would result in his reunion with family & Dumbledore.

This is just my theory, though, and again sorry if it's been brought up before, I'm still fairly new to forums! :)

Anyone have anything to add or agree on with this?

Welcome to the forums!

I don't think JKR is writing in the way you're proposing. Harry is no longer looking back to the people he's lost - he was happier than he's ever been at the end of HBP. Harry is gradually letting go of his losses and starting to build a life. He's temporarily set that new life aside to remove the obstacle (Voldermort) that remains to prevent him from living that life. I think JKR is writing Harry to move forward to fight for what he can have, not go back to what he's lost. As a result, I don't agree that Harry's lost too much or that JKR is writing his character to be reunited with the family that he's lost; instead she's writing him building a new family with Ron, Hermione and Ginny.

inufan625 June 16th, 2007 8:49 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
First
Quote:

Originally Posted by lillbet
What I'm hoping for, the more I consider it, is that over the course of the final book Harry gets a good swift dose of reality that might help him save himself, but from the moment I finished HBP I was certain he would die and in this very moment, as I write and up until the book is in my hands and I'm reading the part where he actually doesn't die, I "REALLLLY" think he will. And if we're playing the JKR-card: she's killed off an innocent kid (Cedric), a doting godfather (Sirius), and a mentor (Dumbledore); she created a schism in a happy family (Percy); demoted an authority figure for paranoia and bad judgment (Fudge); put a drunkard in the Hogwarts staff room (Trelawney), and had a beloved character sent to prison (Hagrid). The "style" is that (as Voldemort says) Harry loses everything- taking that extra step to imply that he dies isn't that much of a stretch.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4566232)

As a piece of literature, a Harry that sacrifices himself for the love of friends and their lifes, is very poignant and very powerful. If he does die, the end of the book will still have a measure of happiness in the lifes, and a sense of being uplifted. If he lives that will not change; other characters we like are going to die anyway.

I disagree very strongly with this. There is nothing uplifting about Harry dying, no matter the reason. My real objection with this is that he shouldn't have to die. He just shouldn't. But beyond that I think we've seen enough sacrifice that one more isn't going to be all that poignant or powerful at least where I'm concerned.

Additionally you can't credit JKR with being unpredictable and then saying that she will do this or that because she has done it before.

Let's make a list of sacrifices:
James for Lily and Harry
Lily for Harry
Sirius for Harry (arguable since he was not saving Harry directly, but it was his purpose in leaving #12)
Dumbledore for Harry

Now potential sacrifices:
Ron for Harry - not dead yet but willing to die (Chess set, shrieking shack)
Neville for Harry - again arguable but I am unwilling to discount his actions in the DoM
Harry for Ginny in the CoS
Frank and Alice potentially for their son as we don't know for certain exactly what the DE's wanted to know

And this doesn't include all the other people who will likely die in DH and I'm sure I've left some things out. As well as not including deaths that weren't to protect someone else directly.

Next and I've posted this before, but I am also expanding on it:

There is nothing I can say that hasn't been said before, but here is my opinion.

I believe Harry will live, and I'll go so far as to prove myself a crazy fangirl by saying that I plan on reading the end at the store before buying it and if he dies I won't be buying it. First, because I think it's a cop out. Second, if I don't read the whole thing then it won't be as hard to pretend it didn't happen when I read fan-fiction. Lastly, I will be able to find out everything that happened on the internet rather than spend money on a book that I won't enjoy finishing. Should Harry be alive then I won't consider myself spoiled in the least, since it's the journey that's important.

That said and to stay on topic, here is why I don't think Harry is going to die, starting with debunking reasons he has to.

1. The 'so there can be no sequels if he dies' reason doesn't hold water. I can't count the number of fics I've seen where Harry dies only to be 'magically' brought back to life. When you are writing a series in a world of magic there are always ways around death. Even if JKR says dead means dead that doesn't mean someone trying to pick up her story would feel the same or respect that. Let's face it, if you steal someone else's work and try to make it your own, you are pretty short on respect to begin with. Also 'epilogue' It is possible to tie up the story neatly enough that the majority of fans will be satisfied not necessarily with the content but with the conclusion of it. Let's face it she could write 100 books and there would still be some people out there clamoring for more, even if there was no story left to tell.

2. JKR has made the afterlife a real and appealing place for Harry, what with having his family plus Dumbledore and Sirius waiting for him there to welcome him, and he doesn't fear death, ect... This one is probably the biggest problem for me. I see a huge difference between not fearing death and wanting to die. JKR couldn't let Harry fear death, lest he be just like Voldermort, so in turn she had to set up the afterlife as a place Harry wouldn't be afraid of. She gave her hero concrete proof that when his time comes his family will be there waiting to welcome him. More importantly though is that they will be waiting for him as long as it takes(they're dead- they don't have anywhere else to be), so there is no reason for him to check out without really getting to live first. His parents wouldn't want that for him, especially right after the threat to his life was removed and he would finally really be allowed to live.

3. JKR wants to show the importance/ beauty of sacrifice and Harry will be a tragic hero, ect... Isn't this what she did with Lily? We don't have to have Harry sacrifice his life to know that it can be an expression of the deepest love. That he is willing to should be enough and I believe that it is enough. And in my mind Harry already is a tragic hero. He has suffered and lost and suffered some more, and yet he hasn't given up. Yes, he's had his moments, but he's still out there determined to fight the good fight no matter the cost to himself. Let's give the kid a break already.

4. Harry is a horocrux (accidental or not) so he has to die to finish off Voldemort. First let me say I don't think he is one, but if I did, I still wouldn't think he had to die. If Harry is one, then he would have to die before Voldemort because canon leads us to believe that the bit in Voldemort has to be destroyed last or else he can come back because of the anchor the remaining bit would provide. So how is Harry supposed to kill Voldemort like the prophesy says he must, if he is already dead? Also I don't believe Harry would have to die to destroy the soul bit in him, is this was the case. The diary was damaged to destroy the soul, but it still existed after and the same was true for the ring. I would go so far to say that if Nagini is a horocrux, there would be a way to remove the soul piece without killing her, only it is easier just to kill a giant poisonous snake and what needs to be done anyway. (I think Nagini is a red herring but that's for another thread.)

5. Happily ever after would be cheesy, too predictable ect... This in itself seems to contradict the brother of this argument which states that Harry's death would be unpredictable and non cheesy for the simple fact that it is supported by the reasoning that Harry is to be a tragic hero. To clarify that a bit more. Doesn't that make him dying just as predictable as him living since it is a standard in the genre? Either ending is going to be predictable to someone so this excuse just doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned. There is also the reasoning that there can't be a happily ever after for Harry no matter what happens. His parents can't come back. Sirius can't come back. Dumbledore can't come back. Harry can't unsuffer abuse at his relatives hands or unscar his emotions. All he can do is move forward and get on with living just like the rest of us. How is it cheesy to let him have a better life than he's known before. People do it all the time. Personally, I find that realistic. (of course I also married a boy I met when I was 14- whom it happens I dated then broke up with and then got back together with- take that as you will)

Now, why I think he will live.

1. JKR has set up a life for him after Voldemort. It's no secret that I am all for OBHWF. It gives Harry a living family to be a part of and a way to start his own.

2. I don't think killing Harry sends the right message. What is JKR trying to say? You were made an orphan as an infant, mistreated/abused as a child, only to find you are a wizard, but there's a catch, the crazed madman who murdered your parents is trying to come back and kill you and all over something you have no choice about and there is nothing you can do but lay down and die or kill him, so sorry that no matter how hard you fight, how much good you do, or how much you've overcome to be a good person, you don't get to ever really live. Where is the beauty in that, the hope, the good triumphing over evil? Personally, I don't see it, but that's just me.

Sephiran June 16th, 2007 12:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I, also think that Harry will survive. But we just have to be patient and wait 34 days and 11 hours to find out.

sweets7 June 16th, 2007 2:13 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inufan625 (Post 4571233)
I disagree very strongly with this. There is nothing uplifting about Harry dying, no matter the reason. My real objection with this is that he shouldn't have to die. He just shouldn't. But beyond that I think we've seen enough sacrifice that one more isn't going to be all that poignant or powerful at least where I'm concerned.

No no no I do not mean there will be anything uplifting in his death. I mean that if he does die the epilogue will have uplifting information about those who survived, future life’s. Harry Potter stories are books, and fiction at that. I have read books that have resulted in a lot worse outcomes then the maybe/perhaps death of Harry, including non – fiction. It would be terribly sad but the books haven't always been barrels of laughs. If he lives great.

inufan625 June 16th, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4571428)
No no no I do not mean there will be anything uplifting in his death. I mean that if he does die the epilogue will have uplifting information about those who survived, future life’s. Harry Potter stories are books, and fiction at that. I have read books that have resulted in a lot worse outcomes then the maybe/perhaps death of Harry, including non – fiction. It would be terribly sad but the books haven't always been barrels of laughs. If he lives great.

In that case I agree. :tu:

I just misunderstood, which is easier to do when reading rather than hearing.

If Harry were to die the epilogue would have to be uplifting to keep entire series from feeling not worth it. I mean who wants to read seven books where in the end rocks fall and everyone dies. :lol:

Spritey June 16th, 2007 8:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inufan625 (Post 4571233)

I believe Harry will live, and I'll go so far as to prove myself a crazy fangirl by saying that I plan on reading the end at the store before buying it and if he dies I won't be buying it. First, because I think it's a cop out. Second, if I don't read the whole thing then it won't be as hard to pretend it didn't happen when I read fan-fiction. Lastly, I will be able to find out everything that happened on the internet rather than spend money on a book that I won't enjoy finishing. Should Harry be alive then I won't consider myself spoiled in the least, since it's the journey that's important.

Really? See, I could never do that. I got Dumbledore's death spoiled, but like you said - a big part of the actual fun of reading is the journey to get there. We still don't even know the whole reason behind Dumbledore's death, but at least with reading it in HBP it gave it some kind of context so I could start to think about it properly. That's why I could never do what you're going to do - I'd want to know why, how, what happens after, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inufan625
If Harry were to die the epilogue would have to be uplifting to keep entire series from feeling not worth it. I mean who wants to read seven books where in the end rocks fall and everyone dies. :lol:

Well, here's the thing. I think if Harry dies, we could go with him - so technically, there's a chance it could be a positive experience, you know. With any other character in the series, that would be impossible; that's why I don't think Ron or Hermione will die, the readers would get nothing positive out of that (unless they sacrifice themselves for Harry - still, not hugely full of yays). Harry dying would be different altogether, since he's the main character, and we can follow him.

JustAnIllusion June 17th, 2007 2:26 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inufan625 (Post 4571233)
...There is nothing uplifting about Harry dying, no matter the reason. My real objection with this is that he shouldn't have to die. He just shouldn't. But beyond that I think we've seen enough sacrifice that one more isn't going to be all that poignant or powerful at least where I'm concerned.

Additionally you can't credit JKR with being unpredictable and then saying that she will do this or that because she has done it before.

Let's make a list of sacrifices:
James for Lily and Harry
Lily for Harry
Sirius for Harry (arguable since he was not saving Harry directly, but it was his purpose in leaving #12)
Dumbledore for Harry

Now potential sacrifices:
Ron for Harry - not dead yet but willing to die (Chess set, shrieking shack)
Neville for Harry - again arguable but I am unwilling to discount his actions in the DoM
Harry for Ginny in the CoS
Frank and Alice potentially for their son as we don't know for certain exactly what the DE's wanted to know

And this doesn't include all the other people who will likely die in DH and I'm sure I've left some things out. As well as not including deaths that weren't to protect someone else directly.

Next and I've posted this before, but I am also expanding on it:

There is nothing I can say that hasn't been said before, but here is my opinion.

:tu:

Quote:

That said and to stay on topic, here is why I don't think Harry is going to die, starting with debunking reasons he has to.

1. The 'so there can be no sequels if he dies' reason doesn't hold water. I can't count the number of fics I've seen where Harry dies only to be 'magically' brought back to life. When you are writing a series in a world of magic there are always ways around death. Even if JKR says dead means dead that doesn't mean someone trying to pick up her story would feel the same or respect that. Let's face it, if you steal someone else's work and try to make it your own, you are pretty short on respect to begin with. Also 'epilogue' It is possible to tie up the story neatly enough that the majority of fans will be satisfied not necessarily with the content but with the conclusion of it. Let's face it she could write 100 books and there would still be some people out there clamoring for more, even if there was no story left to tell.

2. JKR has made the afterlife a real and appealing place for Harry, what with having his family plus Dumbledore and Sirius waiting for him there to welcome him, and he doesn't fear death, ect... This one is probably the biggest problem for me. I see a huge difference between not fearing death and wanting to die. JKR couldn't let Harry fear death, lest he be just like Voldermort, so in turn she had to set up the afterlife as a place Harry wouldn't be afraid of. She gave her hero concrete proof that when his time comes his family will be there waiting to welcome him. More importantly though is that they will be waiting for him as long as it takes(they're dead- they don't have anywhere else to be), so there is no reason for him to check out without really getting to live first. His parents wouldn't want that for him, especially right after the threat to his life was removed and he would finally really be allowed to live.

3. JKR wants to show the importance/ beauty of sacrifice and Harry will be a tragic hero, ect... Isn't this what she did with Lily? We don't have to have Harry sacrifice his life to know that it can be an expression of the deepest love. That he is willing to should be enough and I believe that it is enough. And in my mind Harry already is a tragic hero. He has suffered and lost and suffered some more, and yet he hasn't given up. Yes, he's had his moments, but he's still out there determined to fight the good fight no matter the cost to himself. Let's give the kid a break already.

4. Harry is a horocrux (accidental or not) so he has to die to finish off Voldemort. First let me say I don't think he is one, but if I did, I still wouldn't think he had to die. If Harry is one, then he would have to die before Voldemort because canon leads us to believe that the bit in Voldemort has to be destroyed last or else he can come back because of the anchor the remaining bit would provide. So how is Harry supposed to kill Voldemort like the prophesy says he must, if he is already dead? Also I don't believe Harry would have to die to destroy the soul bit in him, is this was the case. The diary was damaged to destroy the soul, but it still existed after and the same was true for the ring. I would go so far to say that if Nagini is a horocrux, there would be a way to remove the soul piece without killing her, only it is easier just to kill a giant poisonous snake and what needs to be done anyway. (I think Nagini is a red herring but that's for another thread.)

5. Happily ever after would be cheesy, too predictable ect... This in itself seems to contradict the brother of this argument which states that Harry's death would be unpredictable and non cheesy for the simple fact that it is supported by the reasoning that Harry is to be a tragic hero. To clarify that a bit more. Doesn't that make him dying just as predictable as him living since it is a standard in the genre? Either ending is going to be predictable to someone so this excuse just doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned. There is also the reasoning that there can't be a happily ever after for Harry no matter what happens. His parents can't come back. Sirius can't come back. Dumbledore can't come back. Harry can't unsuffer abuse at his relatives hands or unscar his emotions. All he can do is move forward and get on with living just like the rest of us. How is it cheesy to let him have a better life than he's known before. People do it all the time. Personally, I find that realistic. (of course I also married a boy I met when I was 14- whom it happens I dated then broke up with and then got back together with- take that as you will)

Now, why I think he will live.

1. JKR has set up a life for him after Voldemort. It's no secret that I am all for OBHWF. It gives Harry a living family to be a part of and a way to start his own.

2. I don't think killing Harry sends the right message. What is JKR trying to say? You were made an orphan as an infant, mistreated/abused as a child, only to find you are a wizard, but there's a catch, the crazed madman who murdered your parents is trying to come back and kill you and all over something you have no choice about and there is nothing you can do but lay down and die or kill him, so sorry that no matter how hard you fight, how much good you do, or how much you've overcome to be a good person, you don't get to ever really live. Where is the beauty in that, the hope, the good triumphing over evil? Personally, I don't see it, but that's just me.

Brilliant. Wonderfully put. I agree completely... Well, except for the not reading the book part. I think I'll be tempted to flip ahead a few pages, but I'll definitely read the book, no matter what the outcome. :rockon::tu:

expelliarmus_01 June 17th, 2007 3:12 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry will live! I agree with many that say it wouldn't make sense to have Harry die in the end. He deserves to finally live a normal life. Plus who wants to go to a theme park about a boy how died. Universal Studios will open their new theme part around the same time that the final Harry Potter movie will be out, he has to live.

hermyweasly June 17th, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Harry will live! I agree with many that say it wouldn't make sense to have Harry die in the end. He deserves to finally live a normal life.
Actually when I heard that Mary Grandpre had said that there will be so sadness, I guessed that may be Harry will be killed or die or may be one of whom he loved.
Quote:

Plus who wants to go to a theme park about a boy how died
But i don't think that will have alot of effect as there are people want to enjoy the magical world Jo had created ( going inside Hogsmade or Hogwarts ). Living as they are a Hogwarts students.

Weazy713 June 17th, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think by saying that she can see where people coming from by killing of their main characters so as to nullify any unathorized revivals, was JKR's way of keeping us on our toes. Look at us- there are tons of people debating the topic of whether or not Harry will die after JKR said that. If she hadn't, most people would have agreed that he would like, b/c otherwise, lets face it, life as we know it would be over.

I think JKR is just having fun with us as a last laugh for the rumour-mongrels. Hey- hes giving us something to talk about- I don't mind.

maryyyy June 17th, 2007 11:43 pm

Harry IS going to die.
 
The reason on why Harry is going to die for me doesn't have to do with all that talk about “ooooh, J.k. is tired of writing the books so she might as well kill Harry so she won’t have to write more of the story”. That’s nonsense for me.

The thing is, we have to understand at some point, for the own good of the history of the series itself, the most convincible, appropriate, intelligent way of finishing the book is by killing Harry. Why? Well, now I’m gonna tell you what I think J.K. Rowling’s will work on that.


If we think about what Harry represents for the society of the book, the magical people, we can assume easily that he is some kind of “myth”. What I mean is that he is an idealized person, an idol, a HERO. The only hope for the hopeless.

Now, let’s draw a parallel with our society. Think about some people who were really famous, glorified. Think about The Beatles, Marilyn Monroe, Elvis… Their image represented so much, even more then what they really were as humans. After all, they are just as normal as anyone else, but the society has a tendency of overrating famous people for just being famous.

Analyzing the “image” that those people have, now: I don’t know if you ever thought about that but… when someone, very famous and admired dies young, this elevates even more the significance of the person. Think about Elvis. I’m sure that if he didn’t die that time, if he had grown older, it wouldn’t be the same. After all, people don’t like to see their idols growing older…

So, that’s pretty much what I’m trying to say. I think Harry dies because that way he will be way more recognized, he will be a real “myth”: "you know, he died to save the world and everything”. It simply makes more sense to me. And if he lives we know that he’s propably going to marry Ginny, have children etc. It sounds too perfect for me and I’m sure you all already know that the books are not for children anymore…

I just hope I’m wrong even though I have faith in my theory.
.cheers :tu:

JustAnIllusion June 17th, 2007 11:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Weazy713 (Post 4573776)
I think by saying that she can see where people coming from by killing of their main characters so as to nullify any unathorized revivals, was JKR's way of keeping us on our toes. Look at us- there are tons of people debating the topic of whether or not Harry will die after JKR said that. If she hadn't, most people would have agreed that he would like, b/c otherwise, lets face it, life as we know it would be over.

I think JKR is just having fun with us as a last laugh for the rumour-mongrels. Hey- hes giving us something to talk about- I don't mind.

I agree. :tu:

She had never even mentioned the possibility of Harry dying before fans started saying it after HBP. This whole controversy was started by us, and why would she put it to rest? It just increases the mystery.

After looking at the long, horrible life he's been put through, Harry's going to live. I'm sure of it.

8m57w6 June 17th, 2007 11:52 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think your theory makes some sense, but in a way, sot so much. Yes, many famous people have died young, like Elvis, Marilyn, John Lennon, but there are plenty who didn't die young, like the remaining Beatles. Paul McCartney did not die young, and he was and still is an idol to many people. Plus, many of the people who idolized him were around his age, so they grew older along with him. Besides, those people who you mentioned, Elvis, Marilyn, etc., they, unlike Harry didn't choose to die young. Harry has a choice, and he chooses to go and face Voldemort because he knows he is the only one who can. The rest of them had a very differen't kind of fame than Harry, so while they all did die young, they were'nt trying to save the world by doing so, like Harry.

Spritey June 17th, 2007 11:55 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion (Post 4573852)
I agree. :tu:

She had never even mentioned the possibility of Harry dying before fans started saying it after HBP. This whole controversy was started by us, and why would she put it to rest? It just increases the mystery.

After looking at the long, horrible life he's been put through, Harry's going to live. I'm sure of it.

I don't think it started after HBP, did it? Surely the Prophecy was what put it in people's minds to begin with, and that was definitely a suggestion of a sort on her part, right? (I'm stubborn, I know, heh.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion
After looking at the long, horrible life he's been put through, Harry's going to live. I'm sure of it.

What about Ron and Hermione, though? Ginny The Weasleys? Sirius? Dumbledore? Surely they made it worth it - he's still fighting, after all :)

death2voldi June 17th, 2007 11:57 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that Harry will not die, and that Voldi will. I think this because it is what we all want and what we can only hope to happen and to come. It will be a suprise if this does not happen, but I will still enjoy reading the book to find out if all of my theories were correct, which is what inufan625 forgot to mention. No matter what happens, there will be billions of copies sold and tons of all-around-happy fans.

luv2twirl June 18th, 2007 12:01 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Ah, the one million dollar question: Will Harry Die?:hmm:

Ok so let's ponder on this for a minute if you will. JKR is not a heartless person so at the very least, good will win. therefore; voldermort will die. because if he didn't die, the wizarding world would be over run by evil and what kind of a person would she be if she just let that happen? now harry on the other hand could go either way. I think the main theme of these books is that love is the greatest of all powers. :love: and i think we all know that there is no greater love than when a man will lay down his life for a friend. which i think someone will do this for another character at some point in this book. Harry might for ron, hermione, or ginny.(or vice versa) If harry lives, i don't think he will become an auror like he says he will. i mean how much of evil hunting can one man take in a life time? i think it would be good if harry grew up and took dumbledore's place at hogwarts. how sweet!

so idk, harry might live or he might die. either way good will triumph over evil once again. good always wins, she JKR can't break that rule. no matter what i can't wait to get this last book. if there is to be crying for me instore then so be it. i cheated myself in HBP by reading the first sentce of the chapter The White Tomb. i'm not doing that this time. if there is crying to be done then let the tears flow. I really hope harry lives though.:err:

LoveWeasleys June 18th, 2007 12:01 am

Re: Harry IS going to die.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
So, that’s pretty much what I’m trying to say. I think Harry dies because that way he will be way more recognized, he will be a real “myth”: "you know, he died to save the world and everything”. It simply makes more sense to me. And if he lives we know that he’s propably going to marry Ginny, have children etc. It sounds too perfect for me and I’m sure you all already know that the books are not for children anymore…

I can see where you are comming from with this theory and it something like it has been suggested on here before. To me, the whole "sacrificial plot" is too chliche. There is room for Harry to save the wizarding world and not die, so I still think there is hope that he will survive. Killing him off so that he becomes the mythical hero really serves no purpose (in my opinion). Harry has a life after Voldy to fight for and it would be heartbreaking to watch him journey to that point and not get the reward after. I believe that if Jo was planning to kill him off, she wouldn't have given anything to live for.

JustAnIllusion June 18th, 2007 12:10 am

Re: Harry IS going to die.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
The reason on why Harry is going to die for me doesn't have to do with all that talk about “ooooh, J.k. is tired of writing the books so she might as well kill Harry so she won’t have to write more of the story”. That’s nonsense for me.

That's nonsense for me too. They can always be more books, no matter what Harry's fate is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
The thing is, we have to understand at some point, for the own good of the history of the series itself, the most convincible, appropriate, intelligent way of finishing the book is by killing Harry. Why? Well, now I’m gonna tell you what I think J.K. Rowling’s will work on that.

-sits, ready to listen-


Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
If we think about what Harry represents for the society of the book, the magical people, we can assume easily that he is some kind of “myth”. What I mean is that he is an idealized person, an idol, a HERO. The only hope for the hopeless.

Sometimes he can be considered a hero. The important thing to remember is that Harry doesn't want to be a hero. He just wants to be himself. I think the fact that he was thrown into so much chaos will be a reason to allow him to survive. He's just a young boy, especially in wizard years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
Now, let’s draw a parallel with our society. Think about some people who were really famous, glorified. Think about The Beatles, Marilyn Monroe, Elvis… Their image represented so much, even more then what they really were as humans. After all, they are just as normal as anyone else, but the society has a tendency of overrating famous people for just being famous.

Oh, this is where I'll have to disagree. :no: In the American public, Marilyn Monroe was hardly a hero. She was a sex symbol... An actress in the movies. Did she give hope to the hopeless? Hardly. She was eye candy, and a signl that entertainment was only going to get more explicit. The Beatles were a great band, but later viewed as the symbolic sixties' group. Radicals that did drugs. Elvis was a singer. I don't think he's ever been a hero.

All of those people were glorified, yes. I don't see the parallel you're speaking of. Harry is a normal kid, who was thrown into the spotlight. These people chose the spotlight; Chose to be glorified and famous.

Nevertheless, I'm still listening. :rockon:

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
Analyzing the “image” that those people have, now: I don’t know if you ever thought about that but… when someone, very famous and admired dies young, this elevates even more the significance of the person. Think about Elvis. I’m sure that if he didn’t die that time, if he had grown older, it wouldn’t be the same. After all, people don’t like to see their idols growing older…

Not all people see their idols growing older, but many do. Think Mary Tyler Moore, Doris Day, Lucille Ball, Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Arnold [forgive me for the spelling of his last name] Shartse-... The governor of California. When people die young, it's seen as a tragedy. Their significance does not grow in all of the cases of stars or important people dying young. And it's not viewed highly, because many of the people you mentioned were killed in ways that were of their own doing. Their deaths have no relation to Harry Potter. I'm still not seeing the parallel.

There's also many stars who died young and nobody remembers them. James Dean was completely unknown in my American culture class, because he died in a car crash at a very young age. Selena was also killed at the height of her career.

Nevertheless, these people were not thrown into their situations, and all felt a time of pure, free happiness at some point of their lives. Harry has never got to feel that. He will live because he deserves to after all he's done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
So, that’s pretty much what I’m trying to say. I think Harry dies because that way he will be way more recognized, he will be a real “myth”: "you know, he died to save the world and everything”. It simply makes more sense to me.

I don't think that it matters that he's recognized. The idea of it becoming a better "myth" doesn't seem relevant, because whether he lives or dies, he'll still have the story of a century.

I think all that matters is that Harry gets to live a normal life for once. He's didn't ask for any of this... Voldemort chose him. He's had to deal with it, not only for himself, but for the entire wizarding world. And dying to save them would not only be repetitive, but so selfless that it's not meaningful to me at all. So many people died so that he could live. And by him dying, it seems that their sacrifices would be in vain. Sure, Voldy would be dead.. But shouldn't Harry get some good in his life?

I think that love will conquer all..
-breaks out into song, again..-
:err:

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryyyy (Post 4573838)
And if he lives we know that he’s propably going to marry Ginny, have children etc. It sounds too perfect for me and I’m sure you all already know that the books are not for children anymore…

I just hope I’m wrong even though I have faith in my theory.
.cheers :tu:

Children still read them. That may not be relevant, but many, many kids do.

It's not too perfect. After going through all that trouble, good conquered evil. After going through every horrible hurdle in his life, are we going to show people that one has to sacrifice himself? Or will we show that theme that after a long period of struggle, one can be happy?

Ronny June 18th, 2007 12:10 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
But he can get rewarded, even in death. He can be reunited with Sirius, Dumbldore, James and Lilly. In many ways that would be quite a nice image.

JustAnIllusion June 18th, 2007 12:14 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4573869)
I don't think it started after HBP, did it? Surely the Prophecy was what put it in people's minds to begin with, and that was definitely a suggestion of a sort on her part, right? (I'm stubborn, I know, heh.)

It might have a bit, but because Voldemort is assumed to die by so many, I don't think the possibility struck many as much as it did by HBP, when Dumbly died. That's when the possibility really struck me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573893)
But he can get rewarded, even in death. He can be reunited with Sirius, Dumbldore, James and Lilly. In many ways that would be quite a nice image.

I don't think that JKR would have given Harry love in the form of Ginny if she was going to kill him off. :love:
By giving him a life after the war, she gave him something to live for. Sirius, Lily, Dumbly... All of them wouldn't want him to die just to see them. He'd see them after he died as a very old wizard. Surely they'll wait for him in the afterlife.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4573869)
What about Ron and Hermione, though? Ginny The Weasleys? Sirius? Dumbledore? Surely they made it worth it - he's still fighting, after all :)

Oh, I agree that they made his life worth it...

I just think that Harry deserves some happiness with no worries anymore. Where he's not looking over his shoulder all of the time. He needs to live so he can be normal. Well, normal in the sense that a murderer isn't after him 24/7. :rockon:

Ronny June 18th, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion (Post 4573902)
I don't think that JKR would have given Harry love in the form of Ginny if she was going to kill him off. :love:
By giving him a life after the war, she gave him something to live for. Sirius, Lily, Dumbly... All of them wouldn't want him to die just to see them. He'd see them after he died as a very old wizard. Surely they'll wait for him in the afterlife.

If Harry loved her I don't think he would have dumped her at a funeral. I know he had a lot to deal with but that is a new low. Maybe even worse than Tonks' behaviour in the hospital. Maybe he loves her, maybe not. But in Rowling's world it seems clear that there is an afterlife and his family are there. And, in a sense, death doesn't stop you living. It's just another phase, I believe Dumbledore himself told Harry that once.

Segorgem June 18th, 2007 12:28 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I hope not. Harry Rulez!!!

JustAnIllusion June 18th, 2007 12:36 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573924)
If Harry loved her I don't think he would have dumped her at a funeral. I know he had a lot to deal with but that is a new low. Maybe even worse than Tonks' behaviour in the hospital. Maybe he loves her, maybe not. But in Rowling's world it seems clear that there is an afterlife and his family are there. And, in a sense, death doesn't stop you living. It's just another phase, I believe Dumbledore himself told Harry that once.

I think that Harry "dumped her" out of love. If you remember, he just mentioned that they shouldn't be connected. If Voldemort found out that Harry was tied to Ginny, and he would kill her.

Sacrificing his relationship [which obviously pained him, because he turned and left when Ginny started telling him why she liked him so much] for her benefit seems like love to me. :love:

Love, or something a lot like it.

Ronny June 18th, 2007 12:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Dumping someone because you love them? At a funeral? Sorry, I really can't see it. Sure, Voldemort could have killed her but why didn't Harry think of that before? He's rash and still irresponsible, that's why. The whole sorry affair seemed more like a schoolboy crush than anything else. But even if Voldemort did kill her it wouldn't matter would it?

errin June 18th, 2007 12:41 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573924)
If Harry loved her I don't think he would have dumped her at a funeral. I know he had a lot to deal with but that is a new low. Maybe even worse than Tonks' behaviour in the hospital. Maybe he loves her, maybe not. But in Rowling's world it seems clear that there is an afterlife and his family are there. And, in a sense, death doesn't stop you living. It's just another phase, I believe Dumbledore himself told Harry that once.

I think that might not have been permanent. There are too many other ends left open in the end of HBP to take ever action and intention for face value. I think he dumped her to protect her (whether or not she needed it or wanted it is another story). Harry has seen the pattern of horrible things happening to those he loves so dearly and I think he's reluctant to let anyone else in.

I am almost positive Harry will live. He spent the first 11 years of his life utterly worthless to anyone. His years at Hogwarts have been constant strife and sorrow for him (although he does find love from others). I think he deserves some time in his life to NOT be a victim.

(although Jo's revealing of her Christian views and that those views will effect the story worry me a great deal)

Ronny June 18th, 2007 12:44 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Why would Rowling's Christian views worry you?

Spritey June 18th, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573944)
Dumping someone because you love them? At a funeral? Sorry, I really can't see it. Sure, Voldemort could have killed her but why didn't Harry think of that before? He's rash and still irresponsible, that's why. The whole sorry affair seemed more like a schoolboy crush than anything else. But even if Voldemort did kill her it wouldn't matter would it?

To protect her. Because he doesn't want her to be used as bait, and he doesn't want her hurt. He tried to do the same to Ron and Hermione, remember? Leaving them behind so they wouldn't get hurt?

And it "wouldn't matter"? His girlfriend, his best friend's sister - it really wouldn't matter if she died?

JustAnIllusion June 18th, 2007 12:51 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by errin (Post 4573949)
I think that might not have been permanent. There are too many other ends left open in the end of HBP to take ever action and intention for face value. I think he dumped her to protect her (whether or not she needed it or wanted it is another story). Harry has seen the pattern of horrible things happening to those he loves so dearly and I think he's reluctant to let anyone else in.

I am almost positive Harry will live. He spent the first 11 years of his life utterly worthless to anyone. His years at Hogwarts have been constant strife and sorrow for him (although he does find love from others). I think he deserves some time in his life to NOT be a victim.

:tu:

errin June 18th, 2007 1:19 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573956)
Why would Rowling's Christian views worry you?

The idea of sacrifice.
I thought it could mean that Harry would be a Christ figure.

JustAnIllusion June 18th, 2007 1:26 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by errin (Post 4574030)
The idea of sacrifice.
I thought it could mean that Harry would be a Christ figure.

I don't see Harry as a Christ figure.
And I don't think she's incorporating religion into this too much. Maybe a bit, but not to the point of making him a sacrificial figure.

Esteledain June 18th, 2007 1:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It's been months since I've been on so I may be repetitive. I posted this on the wrong thread before - again sorry. Let me know ifthis has already been discussed.

Can't Harry be killed and return as a ghost? Harry has been very curious about how ghosts come into being. We don't know much how wizards become ghosts- only what Nick said (being afraid and not willing to let go) Harry won't be afraid to die, but perhaps that's not the only reason one has to become a ghost.

Maybe it could be for strong attachment of some kind to the physcial world - like maybe LV. Maybe if Harry becomes a ghost he fulfills the prophesy by not allowing LV to live because Harry still survives (the prophesy never said physcially survive). If Harry survives, LV can never "LIVE", therby Harry vanquishing him.

Not only does this allow Harry to win, but then JKR doesn't have to worry about her hero really being eliminated for her young fans. After all, Harry can still speak and have gags with his friends and be a part of their lives. Also, no other author can steal Harry because having a ghost hero is rather difficult to use. It would essentially finish the series for both her, the kids, and any future writing thieves.

LoveWeasleys June 18th, 2007 1:52 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573924)
If Harry loved her I don't think he would have dumped her at a funeral.

But that is why he dumped her. I am not saying he was right in doing so, because he didn't see that Ginny is a powergirl and can take care of herself. He loves her so much in fact that in his mind he had to "keep her safe".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573944)
Sure, Voldemort could have killed her but why didn't Harry think of that before? He's rash and still irresponsible, that's why.

This may be so at some points. Chuck it up to typical teenage behavior. However, given the state that Harry was in. He just lost Dumbledore, the year before Sirius, and the year before that Cedric. All of which deaths he sees himself as having a role leading to it. He realized at the funeral that after DD was dead, Ginny was the last person he wanted to see go that route, so he broke up with her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by errin (Post 4573949)
(although Jo's revealing of her Christian views and that those views will effect the story worry me a great deal)

Its okay, I think the sacrifice that we saw came from Dumbledore. I think it has to do more with the underlying of the morals and values of the story than anything.

Harry won't die, he has too much to live for.

errin June 18th, 2007 1:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion (Post 4574043)
I don't see Harry as a Christ figure.
And I don't think she's incorporating religion into this too much. Maybe a bit, but not to the point of making him a sacrificial figure.


This is how I feel as well, but that quote just made me a little curious about "the other possibility"

fang25 June 18th, 2007 2:25 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
There is actually a significant amount of christian symbolism in the books however I do not see Harry as a Christ figure. Maybe it is hopeless optimism, but I think Harry will survive.

The entire book is a war between good and evil, with the majority of the foreshadowing pointing towards good triumphing. So, thus, the only two options are for Voldermort to die or for both Harry and Voldermort to die. However the prophesy would not make any sense if both of them died.

So Harry must kill Voldermort...this in itself presents another problem as killing tears apart a soul. And love comes into play here but I do not know how. I am only convinced that Harry survives

Oakenhilt June 18th, 2007 4:03 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm Catholic, and I see some open similarities, but not between Harry and Jesus. I think that Harry's uncanny ability to love, his strong will and courage, his drive to do only what is right, etc, are the similarities that Jo indicates. Because those things are basically taught in christianity. If she were to make Harry sacrifice himself, I would really be surprised. After all, most of the stuff that she draws comparances to are subtle. Something like that would be blaringly obvious.

Also, I posted this in another thread, but it's a very convincing editorial by Lady Lupin as to how Harry might use love and light to his advantage, without actually having to use a single Avada Kedavra.

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/...end/se14.shtml

Anyway, I don't think Harry will end up dying. And if he does, I don't think Jo would dare make him go to the afterlife and meet everyone who's died. Nice as it may sound, it's just corny. The thing that really makes me uneasy is what's said in SC/PC:

"To the well prepared mind, death is but the next great adventure."

Let's just hope that this was a foreshadowing of Dumbledore's death, and not Harry's.

XMug June 18th, 2007 4:56 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
About the "leave no possibility of a sequel aspect," if they can make a sequel for "The Departed" (which they are currently doing, I kid you not), then no story is safe from a sequel, no matter who you kill.

naikuria June 18th, 2007 5:05 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I got a question about the whole theme park thing...a lot of people are saying that Harry will live because they wouldn't make a park if he dies, but how does Universal know if he lives or die? Is there confirmation that Jo told them?

scienceofsleep June 18th, 2007 6:11 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i dont think the theme park is connected to the 'outcome' of the books. infact i doubt it follows plotlines of any of the books, more so the essence of it, like magic, hogwarts, wizards. and new common things that pop up everywhere (hogsmeade, the flying car thing, dragons,...)

jo wouldnt reveal the ending to them, no way.

PotionsWiz June 18th, 2007 12:46 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry won't die but he will dangle dangerously close to doing so. So much so, that he will probably "meet" his parents before all of this is over.

Lillbet June 18th, 2007 3:11 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4330132)
OK, Rowling has definitely not promised that Harry lives. However, we know from the prophecy that Harry, Voldemort, or both will have to die. Now frankly, while Harry could die, if Voldemort kills him and lives himself, I really don't see how that is a satisfying end. So option 1 seems closed to me. Either just Voldemort dies, or both Harry and Voldemort buy it.

Agreed :agree: And thanks for that- even though there is a prophecy saying someone will die there is, in fact, no promise that Harry will live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4330132)
OK, part 2. A LOT of people have sacrificed to keep Harry safe and alive. Do the deaths of his parents, Cedric [yes, I know Cedric wanted to live, but remember what he and Frank said in Goblet of Fire when Harry had the showdown with Voldemort], numerous members of the Order, indirectly Sirius and Albus Dumbledore make sense in the end if all they did was let Harry die later? I don't see changing 'The Boy Who Lived' into 'The Young Man Who Died Anyway' as a satisfying plot.

Yeah, but sometimes even when people do their best for you, you can still fail. It happens. The deaths that have occurred bring Harry to various realizations, which will all be for naught if he doesn't get a clue quick and learn from the sacrifices that have been made.

Personally, I'd be less satisfied with these books if Harry's survival was guaranteed. I think he's going to have to earn life- even after everything he's gone through- and I hope JKR makes him work for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4330132)
And finally, the title. "Deathly Hallows". Ahhhhhhhhhh, there's a carefully chosen phrase.

"Deathly". NOT "Deadly", not "Dead", but "Deathly", as in contact with Death, but not dying himself. It implies help from the dead, as we saw foreshadowed in 'Goblet of Fire', and it reminds me of what Voldemort fears most. Since Voldy fears death, there is no way he can access help from the other side, and I doubt he's got a lot of friends there anyway.

And "Hallows". As in to make holy, but more important, Hallows, not Hallows' Eve, which is Halloween, but Hallows, as in the next day. The title clearly implies that Harry will be finished with the events and enemy of Halloween, Voldemort who killed his parents, and will be able to move on, to the 'next day' and on with his life.

Ooh, I like it! :agree: Shades of Tony Goldwyn being sucked into the ether by spirits a la "Ghost." Ditto on that :D :tu:

Of course, Halloween is a significant day in the Potterverse, so it will be interesting to see what events occur on that day that usher in that all-important "next day." (Hopefully something more significant that Ron and Hermione finally coupling up :p )

lindaluna June 18th, 2007 5:35 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm wondering if JKR's book tour is an "explain why I killed Harry" tour - with grief counselling !

rogues311 June 18th, 2007 5:45 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If Harry were to die and Voldemort were to live, would Voldemort just be a rein of terror among the entire world (not just the wizarding world) forever? or, since Harry would have detroyed all of his horcrux's before the final battle (which seems logical), would anyone be able to kill him due to the fact that the horcrux's are gone? or, if Voldemort were to somehow find out that his horcrux's were being destroyed or knows that all of them are already destroyed how do you think he'd cope with that??

20ofdecember June 18th, 2007 7:19 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I suspect Harry will not die per se, but he will wind up beyond the realm of the living, beyond veil, with Sirius and possibly his parents, and maybe even Dumbledore. This would certainly give the book some emotional depth, as Harry will not return to live happily ever after, but nor will he just die. I think this bittersweet ending is just what Rowling has in mind.

ThePythia June 19th, 2007 7:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that the fact that JKR put Ginny as Harry's "ideal girl" points to Harry surviving the series. Why go through the trouble of creating an ideal girl for him if she was planning to kill him off all along? She also says that she always intended them to “come together and then part”. Why do that, unless she intends them to get together for good in the end?

inufan625 June 19th, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by death2voldi (Post 4573872)
I think that Harry will not die, and that Voldi will. I think this because it is what we all want and what we can only hope to happen and to come. It will be a suprise if this does not happen, but I will still enjoy reading the book to find out if all of my theories were correct, which is what inufan625 forgot to mention. No matter what happens, there will be billions of copies sold and tons of all-around-happy fans.

I didn't forget to mention it. I said very clearly that if he dies I won't be buying the book and I won't be happy. And I wager that there will be at least a few crazy fans like me that will be just as dissatisfied.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny (Post 4573893)
But he can get rewarded, even in death. He can be reunited with Sirius, Dumbldore, James and Lilly. In many ways that would be quite a nice image.

Hmmm.. you think so?

Personally I don't see anything nice about the death of a 17 year old who spent his entire life being abused and then fighting to survive, only to save the world and then never get a chance to REALLY live.

His parents, family, and friends aren't going anywhere and will be waiting for him in 5 years, 50 years, or 500 years. I seriously doubt they would want that for him.

Lillbet June 19th, 2007 9:40 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePythia (Post 4576565)
I think that the fact that JKR put Ginny as Harry's "ideal girl" points to Harry surviving the series. Why go through the trouble of creating an ideal girl for him if she was planning to kill him off all along? She also says that she always intended them to “come together and then part”. Why do that, unless she intends them to get together for good in the end?

But you just said she intended them to "come together and then part"- you didn't say nuffin' about them getting back together again :p

By the same token, one could have argued several books ago that Sirius should have lived- why else would JKR have reintroduced Harry's godfather back into his life?- and we all know how that turned out...

SixtyShells June 19th, 2007 10:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No is What i am Hoping For.my Theory is that Harry and the Dark lord will have there duel in an isolated area and all of his closest Friends Dead or Hurt and it just Harry and the Dark lord.They will Duel to the Death and Harry will Cause Voldermorts wand to Show his parents not Cedric or anyone else just his parents watching there Son and Giving him Hope for a Future world and himself and Ginny :).Harry will ultimately Defeat the Dark lord without a Spell or his wand Jo will have him Defeat with of Course Love.He will Be a changed boy(man;)).Harry will Try to lead a normal life but it will never work.(Cough Just like Jake from Animorphs Cough)He will Be utterly Depressed in the end.So yes that my Therory.

expelliarmus_01 June 19th, 2007 11:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PotionsWiz (Post 4574613)
Harry won't die but he will dangle dangerously close to doing so. So much so, that he will probably "meet" his parents before all of this is over.

I can see something like this for Harry and a few other characters. Where they will survive, but barely. I see some serious injuries.

LoveWeasleys June 20th, 2007 1:21 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inufan625 (Post 4577766)
Personally I don't see anything nice about the death of a 17 year old who spent his entire life being abused and then fighting to survive, only to save the world and then never get a chance to REALLY live.

I can definately agree with you on this one. Jo is an amazing writer (as we know) and she has had the story down since the beginning. Yet, if he dies, she will have a chore on how to get past this one.

ThePythia June 20th, 2007 5:08 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4577834)
But you just said she intended them to "come together and then part"- you didn't say nuffin' about them getting back together again :p

By the same token, one could have argued several books ago that Sirius should have lived- why else would JKR have reintroduced Harry's godfather back into his life?- and we all know how that turned out...

What I meant to say was- why make them "come together and part" if she didn't intend to get them back together for good? Harry would have someone to return to, someone to live for once the war is over :)

Sirius' story is completely different. JKR is yet to reveal why she had to kill him off. One of the reasons of course is that the hero must face the villain alone. Which is where, I suspect, the "come together and part" comes in Ginny's case.

As I said earlier, JKR has described Ginny as Harry's "ideal girl". Why would she create an "ideal girl" for him if he was going to die in the end?

Taylor_Elise June 20th, 2007 8:41 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4570849)
Harry is gradually letting go of his losses and starting to build a life. He's temporarily set that new life aside to remove the obstacle (Voldermort) that remains to prevent him from living that life. I think JKR is writing Harry to move forward to fight for what he can have, not go back to what he's lost. As a result, I don't agree that Harry's lost too much or that JKR is writing his character to be reunited with the family that he's lost; instead she's writing him building a new family with Ron, Hermione and Ginny.

This is a remarkable way of putting it! For a while I've been convinced Harry will die in this upcoming installment, and I've heard many views from both sides. Almost every time I hear someone position themselves on the "Harry lives" side, I never hear the exact reasons why. Some of them explain it the way you have, but never so explicitly. This makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm very tempted to switch my views... :p

As you aptly put it, Harry will be fighting for what he can have. However, I wasn't necessarily saying Harry will be wanting to go back to what he's lost, assuming he does die. :hmm: Now I'm just confused!!

You made a great point that Harry has something to go back to. I wonder, though, that even with positive things and a family to look forward to...will Harry be happy with a life free of Voldemort? Because throughout the novels, we've seen Harry with few "life" ambitions aside from revenge on Voldemort:

He wants to be an Auror. After Voldemort is gone...yes, there will be evil wizards still. But we've only ever seen Aurors in the last two books do a couple things. Kingsley Shacklebolt, the Auror Dawlish, and even Tonks have been used as what? Bodyguards? Escorts?

Would Harry, after living through something so astounding and huge as defeating Voldemort, be content guarding the Minister of Magic for the rest of his life?
I'm not convinced of either side anymore because I think they both have good points...we'll just have to wait for DH to be sure!! :drool:

Quote:

Originally Posted by inufan625 (Post 4571233)
First
I believe Harry will live, and I'll go so far as to prove myself a crazy fangirl by saying that I plan on reading the end at the store before buying it and if he dies I won't be buying it. First, because I think it's a cop out. Second, if I don't read the whole thing then it won't be as hard to pretend it didn't happen when I read fan-fiction. Lastly, I will be able to find out everything that happened on the internet rather than spend money on a book that I won't enjoy finishing. Should Harry be alive then I won't consider myself spoiled in the least, since it's the journey that's important.

....i think you contradicted yourself here. By saying that you won't buy the book if the ending isn't what you like and then stating that it's the journey that's important...

what if Jo has a very good reason for doing what she does in the course of the books? (which, i have to remind everyone, she most likely does)

I mean, look at Dumbledore. I certainly didn't want him to die, but Jo made it very clear in interviews that there's a reason for all of it.

I can't say you're wrong for your beliefs---after all, I wouldn't want to buy a book i wouldn't enjoy...But I guess I'm pleading with you to at least give it a chance before passing judgement. IF Harry dies, JK wouldn't do it just to say "okay, now no one can finish my series"...she's been at this for too long to do it that way. After all...it's her story. :love:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnIllusion (Post 4573892)
That's nonsense for me too. They can always be more books, no matter what Harry's fate is....

Sometimes he can be considered a hero. The important thing to remember is that Harry doesn't want to be a hero. He just wants to be himself. I think the fact that he was thrown into so much chaos will be a reason to allow him to survive. He's just a young boy, especially in wizard years.

...There's also many stars who died young and nobody remembers them. James Dean was completely unknown in my American culture class, because he died in a car crash at a very young age. Selena was also killed at the height of her career.

...I don't think that it matters that he's recognized. The idea of it becoming a better "myth" doesn't seem relevant, because whether he lives or dies, he'll still have the story of a century.
....Children still read them. That may not be relevant, but many, many kids do.

It's not too perfect. After going through all that trouble, good conquered evil. After going through every horrible hurdle in his life, are we going to show people that one has to sacrifice himself? Or will we show that theme that after a long period of struggle, one can be happy?



Hear, Hear!!:tu:
I think you're all right about the fact that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE will make a loophole if they REALLY want to copy Harry Potter and continue the story. It could happen.
I also was just waiting for someone to mention James Dean!! :p

And you are quite right, many children DO still read the series. I agree wholeheartedly :agree: that there's room for Harry to live and that he can be happy....I'm still on the fence as to what will actually happen, but I think it's worth pointing out that everyone can argue their own side reasonably well.

Lillbet June 20th, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4570849)
I don't think JKR is writing in the way you're proposing. Harry is no longer looking back to the people he's lost - he was happier than he's ever been at the end of HBP. Harry is gradually letting go of his losses and starting to build a life. He's temporarily set that new life aside to remove the obstacle (Voldermort) that remains to prevent him from living that life. I think JKR is writing Harry to move forward to fight for what he can have, not go back to what he's lost. As a result, I don't agree that Harry's lost too much or that JKR is writing his character to be reunited with the family that he's lost; instead she's writing him building a new family with Ron, Hermione and Ginny.

Good point. Thank you, Taylor Elise for actually reading back and quoting this (so I could look for it and read it for myself).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePythia (Post 4578593)
What I meant to say was- why make them "come together and part" if she didn't intend to get them back together for good? Harry would have someone to return to, someone to live for once the war is over :)

Sirius' story is completely different. JKR is yet to reveal why she had to kill him off. One of the reasons of course is that the hero must face the villain alone. Which is where, I suspect, the "come together and part" comes in Ginny's case.

As I said earlier, JKR has described Ginny as Harry's "ideal girl". Why would she create an "ideal girl" for him if he was going to die in the end?

What really confuses me is that you talk about the hero facing the villain alone relating to the "come together and part" bit- Harry and Ginny broke up because Harry thinks that he needs to face Voldemort alone and is protecting Ginny by breaking up with her. Sirius died, basically, because for Harry to be truly alone he needs to lose the one last (sympathetic) tie he has to his parents. In both instances there is a chance that once the hero faces the final reckoning he will be reunited with the person he parted from- that's what usually happens. I just don't think it needs to, or will, happen here.

The break-up of Harry and Ginny is a convention created by the hero myth and carried out by the character within the parallels of the story- Harry has gone it alone before, in his experience it's the way to go, and thus he breaks up with her. The death of Sirius is also a convention but created by the author, to (again) fit the convention of the hero myth (Campbell states that the hero breaks all ties before undergoing his journey) and molded by the events of the story- Harry is a character that must be bereft of everything so that he can find the strength within, therefore Sirius has to be eaten by drapery. One is governed by the character, one by the author.

The argument that Harry is going to live because Ginny (aka "The Ideal Girl") merely exists just doesn't wash for me. Possibly because the relationship cropped up so suddenly and was so brief- frankly I don't see enough evidence to suggest that suggest that Ginny is what Harry has to live for. If Harry lives for or because of anything it will most likely be because he grew up and learned a few things (finally) such as:
  • he finally understands the importance of love (for his friends- which, to be fair, could include Ginny);
  • he has confidence in the love others have for him (again, his friends); and
  • he is unafraid to die to save others.

Short version- while Ginny may be part of that learned lesson, I don't think she will be the sole reason for Harry's survival. Something he tried to ensure himself by breaking up with her.

As for "ideal" anything, ever read "Tess of the d'Urbervilles" by Hardy? Angel is the ideal lover for Tess, and there are break-ups, incidents and accidents that keep them apart- but even when they reunite it doesn't stop the heroine from meeting an unhappy fate.

ThePythia June 20th, 2007 4:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4579164)
If Harry lives for or because of anything it will most likely be because he grew up and learned a few things (finally) such as:
  • he finally understands the importance of love (for his friends- which, to be fair, could include Ginny);
  • he has confidence in the love others have for him (again, his friends); and
  • he is unafraid to die to save others.

Short version- while Ginny may be part of that learned lesson, I don't think she will be the sole reason for Harry's survival. Something he tried to ensure himself by breaking up with her.

I completely agree with what you said. I didn't say Ginny is the sole reason for Harry's survival, nor do I believe so. I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer earlier, but I consider Ginny being described as Harry's "ideal girl" as an add-on to the list of reasons supporting Harry's survival. I decided to post it as I felt it hadn't been pointed out before in this thread. In fact, I wrote an editorial on mugglenet a couple of years back listing the reasons why I felt Harry would survive the series, using JKR's quotes to back me up. It's here if you're interested.

iamthedarklord June 20th, 2007 5:56 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It's hard, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance (I think the 4/1 ods What Will Happen in Book 7 are way off)

sparkly June 20th, 2007 7:08 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor_Elise (Post 4578739)
Would Harry, after living through something so astounding and huge as defeating Voldemort, be content guarding the Minister of Magic for the rest of his life?
I'm not convinced of either side anymore because I think they both have good points...we'll just have to wait for DH to be sure!! :drool:

Thanks for the comments!

I think you've posed a difficult question, but I don't think it offers much support to the theory that Harry will die. I can't see JKR killing Harry merely because she has trouble giving him a profession after he defeats Voldermort.

JKR has emphasized several times through the first six books that Harry just wants to be normal. He hates the fate that's been dealt to him and would give anything to be Ron, or Neville. I don't think the Harry that JKR has created will have any trouble with any kind of job. I think we as fans have developed an expectation for Harry as a kind of hero, and what's the hero going to do if he's achieved his life's ambition at seventeen?

Except that's not Harry. JKR's Harry is just a kid who's been put in an extraordinary situation and struggled to make the best of that situation. At the end of book 7 he'll still be a kid in many ways and I don't think he'll have any trouble at all with a "normal" life. In so many ways it won't be normal for Harry. For the first time he'll be able to make his own choices, buy his own clothes, enjoy time with his friends. Things we take for granted will be completely new for Harry, and he'll turn those experiences into his own adventure.

Taylor_Elise June 20th, 2007 8:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkly (Post 4579561)
I can't see JKR killing Harry merely because she has trouble giving him a profession after he defeats Voldermort.

JKR has emphasized several times through the first six books that Harry just wants to be normal. He hates the fate that's been dealt to him and would give anything to be Ron, or Neville. I don't think the Harry that JKR has created will have any trouble with any kind of job. I think we as fans have developed an expectation for Harry as a kind of hero, and what's the hero going to do if he's achieved his life's ambition at seventeen?

Except that's not Harry. JKR's Harry is just a kid who's been put in an extraordinary situation and struggled to make the best of that situation. At the end of book 7 he'll still be a kid in many ways and I don't think he'll have any trouble at all with a "normal" life. In so many ways it won't be normal for Harry. For the first time he'll be able to make his own choices, buy his own clothes, enjoy time with his friends. Things we take for granted will be completely new for Harry, and he'll turn those experiences into his own adventure.

Hey, no problem. I really enjoy these forums, so discussions like this are what keep me going until the book is finally released! :love:

I see your point about not killing Harry just for lack of profession. What I should have said to be clear was that the "Auror" point was a facet of my argument. I believe, Hero or not, Harry is someone that has lived the last six (almost seven) years of his life with a single, driving purpose. Not just as a character, but as a person and in his own mind, he craves revenge/defeat of Voldemort due to the murder of his parents. Whether we look at Harry as a kid placed in extreme situations (which, I think you're absolutley correct, he is in no way the "Superman" of the novel--simply a kid with a destiny) or as a puffed up "save the day" character, he's still going to have trouble getting back to his craved normal life after killing Voldemort.

Now, to clarify

I'm not saying that just because Harry goes through something difficult doesn't mean he can't get through it. Look at the death of Cedric. Sure, he had nightmares for a while, the mere thought of the graveyard haunted him, he constantly dreamt about the horrors he saw. But he grew from it, learned, and moved on.

Assuming Harry lives, this is what will have to happen. Not because of the Hero mold, but because of the human nature mold. Every person that goes through something traumatic will have a mourning or grieving period before they're ready to move on with their lives. It's only natural.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that "normal" life Harry so craves is going to take a long time to be used to. Not just for Harry, but everyone. Imagine--wizards and witches have lived in fear of a name for 20 years. There's no more "you-know-who" phrases to skirt around. No more searches or CONSTANT VIGILANCE! on the lookout for a floating soul that might be Voldemort...he's going to be gone.

What I was trying to get at (I'm long-winded, forgive me) was that Harry, yes, has a purpose as a character in a novel, and no, just because he fulfills that does not mean you have to kill him off as an author. But think about Harry's life from the very first moment he learned he was a wizard up until now, the end of his sixth year at Hogwarts. In the back of his mind, the whole time, he's had this fixture that "VOLDEMORT KILLED MY PARENTS"...

He won't have that anymore. So what will he focus on? I know he'll have the future to think about, he'll have Ron and Hermione, Ginny, a family in the Weasleys, all that. But Harry's not going to wake up in the morning and go, "Okay, I'm going to enjoy my family today!" A bit harsh of an analysis, I know. Sorry... :p (And again, I know Harry currently doesn't wake up going "Okay, let's defeat Voldemort today!" But you have to admit...it's more constant at the forefront of his mind--especially because it's something to work towards. Having a family is something he will have already achieved after this...what will he be motivated to do?)

As for your comment on doing normal things, I disagree with you there. Harry has been able to make his own choices, buy his own clothes, and hang out with his friends since he found out he was a wizard. That's exactly what Diagon Alley represented to him. Remember Fortescue? During the summer of PoA, he used to sit there taking to Florean, eating ice cream because he wanted to. He bought his own robes from Madam Malkins, even. I think you're right about Harry having a normal life, I just think the examples you used were a bit out of place. Those are all things Harry has been able to do since learning of his abilities. That's what made being a wizard so special to Harry is that it represented a chance to live his life on his own, away from the Dursleys.

iamthedarklord June 20th, 2007 10:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't know, but I do know that there are a lot of people who would risk their lives to save Harry:

Ron
Hermione
Neville
Ginny
Snape (assuming he's good)
Wormtail (because of the life debt)
Molly
Arthur

As for Taylor_Elise's long-winded message above, well, if all goes well then that'll happen!

disclaimer: With the exception of possibly the computer, Harry Potter is the best thing ever invented on earth! We read them over and over for fun, we argue about what'll happen next, we are brought together as fans by the books. Harry Potter is one of the highest things most of us value in life, and nothing about this will change when Deathly Hallows comes out. We will ponder over what will happen after the series as our never answered questions go on.

And now, I bestow great thanks upon the person who brought us together on MuggleNet and CoS, Emerson Spartz, and encourage all readers of this message to spread it on.

LunaLoveX June 21st, 2007 1:19 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that the chance that he will die, is like, 50/50. I can see Harry doing something heroic, like, getting hurt/killed, after Voldemort himself dies, like, "If I'm going down, I'm taking you down with me" But in reality, I'm not really sure, depends on JKR.

Taylor_Elise June 21st, 2007 8:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LunaLoveX (Post 4580444)
I think that the chance that he will die, is like, 50/50. I can see Harry doing something heroic, like, getting hurt/killed, after Voldemort himself dies, like, "If I'm going down, I'm taking you down with me" But in reality, I'm not really sure, depends on JKR.

Haha, that's actually really funny you say that...I can see Harry being stubborn like that. :p

Lillbet June 21st, 2007 1:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePythia (Post 4579236)
I completely agree with what you said. I didn't say Ginny is the sole reason for Harry's survival, nor do I believe so. I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer earlier, but I consider Ginny being described as Harry's "ideal girl" as an add-on to the list of reasons supporting Harry's survival. I decided to post it as I felt it hadn't been pointed out before in this thread. In fact, I wrote an editorial on mugglenet a couple of years back listing the reasons why I felt Harry would survive the series, using JKR's quotes to back me up. It's here if you're interested.

I'll take a look, thanks :)

I guess you can probably tell that I'm not a 'shipper, so waving the H/G flag at me is like waving a red flag at a bull... but I'm much MUCH more adorable. And I have chocolate in my desk drawer, so I'm not all bad. :love:

shaun0505 June 21st, 2007 2:09 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I haven't read all the posts but I think Harry will die. The prophecy just seems to say that.

Quote:

Either must die at the hand of the other
So, Harry must kill Voldemort, or Voldemort must kill Harry. Simple.

Quote:

For neither can live while the other survives
If Harry kills Voldemort then Harry must die because he's killed Voldemort. But then if Voldemort kills Harry, he must die because he killed Harry. Make sense?

Of course there'll probably be some in depth reason why Harry will die, more important than the prophecy reason I just gave.

Also if you look at OotP. Harry says something about the line For neither can live while the other survives. I think Jo drew importance to this line because it suggests that Harry could die. Also again in HBP, he refers to the same line of the prophecy.
Of course it could just be a red herring. Oh well.

Happy fourth birthday Order of the Phoenix!!

inkling7 June 21st, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
EITHER must die etc means to me that one or the other msut die - NOT both. I have therefore come to the conclusion that it all boils down to interpretation and not what Jo has written......

Lillbet June 21st, 2007 4:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4581436)
EITHER must die etc means to me that one or the other msut die - NOT both. I have therefore come to the conclusion that it all boils down to interpretation and not what Jo has written......

And if you recall Trelawney's prophecies don't always have a literal interpretation- often there's a double meaning to her words, leading to that warm and fuzzy "Aha!" moment when you realize it would be reinterpreted. JKR did say, though, that she "and Trelawney" worded the prophecy very carefully.

Less than a month until we find the answer! :)

shaun0505 June 21st, 2007 4:40 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I didn't say it was that quote. Reread my post and you'll see that the quote I was referring to was the "For neither can live while the other survives " quote.

You are right though. it all depends on how you interpret the prophecy and only Jo knows how it should be interpreted. This is just my interpretation and what I think the prophecy means.

nano June 21st, 2007 5:11 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I dont want him to, but I think Harry will die. Ive been a while on theese boards & again & again it is thrown in, that all questions are already answered in book 1 (dont ask me where i read that though)

Ive just finished reading Philosophers Stone and the bit inm the forrest with the centaurs has always given me the creeps, but this time round I asked myself, why the other centaurs were so angry with Firenze, apart from him degrading himself to a "horse"

It seems to me, as if they think he is trying to change what has been foreseen in the stars. I think that is even the main reason why they are angry.

Rereading that passage makes me think they have seen the final showdown between HP and Voldy will lead to Harrys death and I think they also foresaw that it will happen in the magical forrest. Perhaps thats why they were so angry, perhaps they thought that the time had already come and Firenze was interfering by saving Harry.

Just my 2 Cents - but I beleive that is what we will see in Book 7.

nano


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