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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

inkling7 April 22nd, 2007 1:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Since Albus didn't want to have Draco murder or kill anyone intentionally then I doubt whether harry - the hero - will be given that task either whether in anger or not. I think he vanquish Voldemort some other way - but I don't really have a clue how at this stage as there are so many ways it could be done without Harry actually doing the deed directly. However he could do it indirectly I suppose - or be the cause of it?

calgary April 22nd, 2007 7:22 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think Harry will do the killing at all. LV will be gone though. The key will be with Snape and what his true character is. I do see Harry surviving this. There would be a rough justice if Snape comes through, but everything hinges (I think) on him. In fact, Harry's fate is directly through Snape.

MarissaCalderon April 24th, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
JKR'S BIG BOO-BOO

I was reading Quiddich through the Ages & Fantastic Beast and it says the publication date is 2001 (I believe...). So if this is true then all the text that was written inside the book must be of that time. So we can assume many things like- Harry, Dumbledore, Hermione and Ron all live.

I mean if JKR really did kill off Harry and Dumbledore they wouldn't be in the foward, right? Or did she make a big mistake?

Nobleone April 25th, 2007 7:09 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I've been on the fence on this for a long time. On one hand, in the veil scene Harry seemed to really cotton to the idea of being on the other side, and then in the end of OOTP when Voldemort was possessing him, it was his love for Sirius and his thought that death wouldn't be too bad that caught me off guard. It really felt like foreshadowing...

But, even with that, it seems that seven books is a fairly long journey to take if in the end Lily's sacrifice was for nothing. So that fence is really high.

Lord_Kaine April 25th, 2007 8:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4471629)
Since Albus didn't want to have Draco murder or kill anyone intentionally then I doubt whether harry - the hero - will be given that task either whether in anger or not. I think he vanquish Voldemort some other way - but I don't really have a clue how at this stage as there are so many ways it could be done without Harry actually doing the deed directly. However he could do it indirectly I suppose - or be the cause of it?

I agree with what you're saying, but who's gonna give him that task? And would he see it as a task, or a must do thing to survive?

Now I don't think it will end with Harry doing an Avada Kedavra, and I hope it don't end with the power of love surging forward into Voldemort. I'm more for the Patronus and the Veil theory. The only question is how Harry will survive and complete something no other wizard has been succesful in doing. It wasn't even because of him that LV was defeated in the first place, it was his mother. And now, he will not be protected by her sacrifice anymore. So what is he going to do against LV and survive in the process?

nickfaceelbow April 25th, 2007 9:09 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes, Harry will die. I think so, because Professor Trelawney thinks so.

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once. Here are all Trelawney's other predictions that I've come across so far. The page numbers are from the UK paperback edition:

Page 80
Quote:

'You, boy,' she said suddenly to Neville, who almost toppled off his pouffe, 'is your grandmother well?'
'I think so,' said Neville tremulously.
'I wouldn't be so sure, dear,' said Professor Trelawney, the firelight glinting on her long emerald earrings.'
I'm not sure about this one, but I remember that Neville could see the Thestrals in OOTP; maybe because of his grandmother?

Page 80
Quote:

'By the way, my dear,' she shot suddenly at Parvati Patil, 'beware of a red-haired man.'
I don't know what she's talking about. Maybe it'll come in the next book; maybe it just wasn't mentioned because it's not important to the storyline. After all, Trelawney is just showing off in this lesson.

Page 80
Quote:

'Unfortunately, classes will be disrupted in February by a nasty bout of flu.'
Yet again, the flu isn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Page 80
Quote:

'And around Easter, one of our number will leave us for ever.'
Obvious, this one. Hermione drops Divination around Easter.

Page 80
Quote:

'Incidentally, that thing you are dreading - it will happen on Friday the sixteenth of October.'
Lavender trembled.
Lavender hears her rabbit has died on Friday the sixteenth of October.

Page 81
Quote:

'Oh, and dear -' she caught Neville by the arm as he made to stand up, 'after you've broken your first cup, would you be so kind as to select one of the blue patterned ones?'
In the very next line, Neville broke his cup.

Page 82
Quote:

Professor Trelawney was staring into the teacup, rotating it anti-clockwise.
'The falcon... my dear, you have a deadly enemy.'
Voldemort, anyone? Not a very impressive prediction, but accurate nevertheless.

Page 82
Quote:

'The club... an attack. Dear, dear, this is not a happy cup.'
Harry has been attacked plenty of times after this prediction, most notably by Voldemort in GOF.

Page 82
Quote:

'The skull... danger in your path, my dear...'
This could refer to lots of things. Anyway, she's right yet again.

Page 83
Quote:

'Oh, and dear -' she pointed at Neville, 'you'll be late next time, so mind you work extra hard to catch up.'
The next Divination class isn't mentioned, so she may well have been right.

Page 169
Quote:

'I dare not, Headmaster! If I join the table, we shall be thirteen! Nothing could be more unlucky! Never forget that when thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!'
McGonagall persuaded Trelawney and on the next page:
Quote:

Harry and Ron got up first from the table and she shrieked loudly
I was really disappointed when I read this. The first from that table to die was Dumbledore (in HBP), so I considered this Trelawney's first confirmed miss. However, a thought struck me. Peter Pettigrew was at the table as well, so there were in fact fourteen people instead of thirteen. This also means that there were thirteen people before Trelawney sat down, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione and Peter joined. I looked back at page 169 to see if anyone stood up at this time, and indeed:
Quote:

'Sybill, this is a pleasant surprise!' said Dumbledore, standing up
This one took a bit of thought, but Trelawney was right again.

Page 170
Quote:

'If you must know, Minerva, I have seen that Professor Lupin will not be with us for very long.'
Lupin retires at the end of the year.

The score so far:
Correct: 8
Uncomfirmed: 4
Wrong: 0

As she's predicted Harry's death not once, but many times, it is very likely that he will die.

I haven't read all 41 pages of replies, so I'm sorry if this has already been said.

Lord_Kaine April 25th, 2007 9:51 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
nickfaceelbow, the detail about Dumbledore getting up first was something I didn't think of, neither the detail about Wormtail being at the table. But it is correct, when I think of it. Impressive indeed. :tu:

I'm beginning to wonder if you're correct, is there more to Trelawney's random predictions than we know? Since it has been proven that she has given at least two prophecies, why portraying her as an old fraud just talking about gibberish.

As an add-on: Trelawney did foresee the moment of Dumbledores death, didn't she? I don't remember where, but she did mention something about a lightning-struck tower.

AnnaSofia April 25th, 2007 10:18 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes when she had the cards she said to Harry ( but to DD too ) that whichever card she picks is the lightning-struck tower.
I think that Neville was able to see Thestrals because he saw his grandfather death.

nickfaceelbow April 25th, 2007 10:24 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
She did. I think it was in the Half-Blood Prince, but I haven't read that in almost a year, so I don't remember it that well.

I don't understand why people still don't take Trelawney seriously after the prophecies. I know she acts quite silly, but you'd think all those accurate predictions would give her some credibility.

papasmerf April 25th, 2007 10:28 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow (Post 4478153)
Yes, Harry will die. I think so, because Professor Trelawney thinks so.

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once. Here are all Trelawney's other predictions that I've come across so far. The page numbers are from the UK paperback edition:

Page 80

I'm not sure about this one, but I remember that Neville could see the Thestrals in OOTP; maybe because of his grandmother?

Page 80

I don't know what she's talking about. Maybe it'll come in the next book; maybe it just wasn't mentioned because it's not important to the storyline. After all, Trelawney is just showing off in this lesson.

Page 80

Yet again, the flu isn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Page 80

Obvious, this one. Hermione drops Divination around Easter.

Page 80

Lavender hears her rabbit has died on Friday the sixteenth of October.

Page 81

In the very next line, Neville broke his cup.

Page 82

Voldemort, anyone? Not a very impressive prediction, but accurate nevertheless.

Page 82

Harry has been attacked plenty of times after this prediction, most notably by Voldemort in GOF.

Page 82

This could refer to lots of things. Anyway, she's right yet again.

Page 83

The next Divination class isn't mentioned, so she may well have been right.

Page 169

McGonagall persuaded Trelawney and on the next page:

I was really disappointed when I read this. The first from that table to die was Dumbledore (in HBP), so I considered this Trelawney's first confirmed miss. However, a thought struck me. Peter Pettigrew was at the table as well, so there were in fact fourteen people instead of thirteen. This also means that there were thirteen people before Trelawney sat down, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione and Peter joined. I looked back at page 169 to see if anyone stood up at this time, and indeed:

This one took a bit of thought, but Trelawney was right again.

Page 170

Lupin retires at the end of the year.

The score so far:
Correct: 8
Uncomfirmed: 4
Wrong: 0

As she's predicted Harry's death not once, but many times, it is very likely that he will die.

I haven't read all 41 pages of replies, so I'm sorry if this has already been said.

your starting to sound like pavarti or lavender o.0 haha but that is a theory that has evidence to support it so i give you props... I believe that Harry will die, but for a different reason. Solely because JKR wants noone to build off this and said she would be writing no sequels. I think that she will kill Harry, but twist it into something positive somehow... Although that would kinda irritate me >_<

anabel April 25th, 2007 10:35 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow (Post 4478153)
I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once.

But McGonagall said at the beginning of PoA that Trelawney has predicted the death of a student every single year since she started, and none of them had died yet!

Queen_Princess April 25th, 2007 10:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that he will survive.

papasmerf April 25th, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen_Princess (Post 4478410)
I think that he will survive.

ummm.... reasons??? plerease

Rockstar April 25th, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Someone mentioned that it seemed unlikely for Harry to kill the Dark Lord, because no other witch or wizard has managed it.

Well, no other witch or wizard has managed to escape Voldemort when he has marked them for death. Harry has done this several times. No other witch or wizard has lived through the AK curse; Harry has.

Both Voldemort and Harry have overridden the typical "rules" of the Wizarding world; i.e. Volde's many horcruxes and Harry's survival of a death curse. They are both exceptional wizards; though some people say Harry is weak and isn't really that outstanding, one cannot forget that he has overcome Voldemort, one of the most powerful wizards of his age, more than once, he knows spells that are much more advanced than his age group (i.e. Patronus charm), he can effectively teach others these spells, and plus he did get through the Triwizard Tournament with good marks. He's the top of his class at Defense against the Dark Arts. I think Harry is great because he is determined, and he is determined because of the ones he loves; he cares about their well being and he cares about preserving their memories after they pass. Therefore, I think he will ultimately defeat Lord Voldemort.

nickfaceelbow April 25th, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

But McGonagall said at the beginning of PoA that Trelawney has predicted the death of a student every single year since she started, and none of them had died yet!
This did indeed bother me. I do have a theory to explain this, but no proof whatsoever. McGonagall is very biased against Trelawney. She makes sarcastic comments to her during the Christmas dinner in POA and openly criticises during a class too. She's never this disrespectful about any other teacher, not even Snape, though he does provoke her sometimes.

Because of this bias, she may have exaggerated her statement. Maybe she happened to recall an incident from two years ago involving a certain Hufflepuff boy. Since nothing had happened to him yet in POA, McGonagall thought that this was some sort of sick joke that Trelawney now repeated on Harry. It's understandable that McGonagall is angry about this. She doesn't know that Harry's aware Sirius Black is after him, and doesn't want him to think he's in danger. The last thing she needs is some crazy woman telling him he's going to die, right?

I'm not sure why McGonagall dislikes Trelawney. Perhaps McGonagall was just very bad at Divination and looks down on the subject for that reason, just like Hermione. The two are quite similar, really. Then again, maybe Trelawney just said something insulting about McGonagall once.

I personally think McGonagalls words shouldn't be taken too seriously. I find her a very untrustworthy character. She thinks of her own opinions as facts and she's too stubborn to see things any other way. In PS, when Harry, Ron and Hermione tell McGonagall that the philosopher's stone might get stolen, she tells them that the stone is perfectly safe. Apparently even the fact that three first years managed to find out about it isn't enough to make her doubt. Similarly, in COS, she tells her class that the chamber of secrets is nothing but a legend. I find this particularly curious because since she's around the same age as Voldemort, she should have been attending Hogwarts while Voldemort opened it. I don't know whether McGonagall is a good liar or just wrong about a lot of things, but I to me Trelawney has more credibility than McGonagall does.

Annachie April 26th, 2007 3:32 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

'By the way, my dear,' she shot suddenly at Parvati Patil, 'beware of a red-haired man.'
For some reason, I always thought this was refering to a Weasley. Specifically Ron and the Yule ball. Not sure why

Natashaa April 26th, 2007 8:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow (Post 4478153)
Yes, Harry will die. I think so, because Professor Trelawney thinks so.

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once. Here are all Trelawney's other predictions that I've come across so far. The page numbers are from the UK paperback edition:

Page 80

I'm not sure about this one, but I remember that Neville could see the Thestrals in OOTP; maybe because of his grandmother?

Page 80

I don't know what she's talking about. Maybe it'll come in the next book; maybe it just wasn't mentioned because it's not important to the storyline. After all, Trelawney is just showing off in this lesson.

Page 80

Yet again, the flu isn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Page 80

Obvious, this one. Hermione drops Divination around Easter.

Page 80

Lavender hears her rabbit has died on Friday the sixteenth of October.

Page 81

In the very next line, Neville broke his cup.

Page 82

Voldemort, anyone? Not a very impressive prediction, but accurate nevertheless.

Page 82

Harry has been attacked plenty of times after this prediction, most notably by Voldemort in GOF.

Page 82

This could refer to lots of things. Anyway, she's right yet again.

Page 83

The next Divination class isn't mentioned, so she may well have been right.

Page 169

McGonagall persuaded Trelawney and on the next page:

I was really disappointed when I read this. The first from that table to die was Dumbledore (in HBP), so I considered this Trelawney's first confirmed miss. However, a thought struck me. Peter Pettigrew was at the table as well, so there were in fact fourteen people instead of thirteen. This also means that there were thirteen people before Trelawney sat down, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione and Peter joined. I looked back at page 169 to see if anyone stood up at this time, and indeed:

This one took a bit of thought, but Trelawney was right again.

Page 170

Lupin retires at the end of the year.

The score so far:
Correct: 8
Uncomfirmed: 4
Wrong: 0

As she's predicted Harry's death not once, but many times, it is very likely that he will die.

I haven't read all 41 pages of replies, so I'm sorry if this has already been said.

I must appreciate the effort you put this together, but I'm not convinced. All of Trelawney's "predictions" can be seen as clever, calculated guesses. It's like fortunetelling. When you make, say 10 guesses which have a probability of happening based on what you know or observe, there's a chance at that atleast 4-5 will turn out right. It's the same case with Trelwaney. A firm believer in Divination, like Parvati or Lavender, will only see the predictions that came true.

Every prediction she makes about Harry is based on what everyone knows (deadly enemy, frequent attacks, danger in his path). As McGonagall says, she predicts the death of a student every year, and that year she chose Harry as he's the safest bet (he tops the hit list of Voldemort after all)

I remember one particular "prediction" which Trelawney makes about Harry, based on something she doesn't know about him- his birth date. I'm not sure which book this was in, but she asks him if he was born in midwinter :lol:

inkling7 April 26th, 2007 9:52 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Minerva doesn't suffer fools gladly and Sybil si quite foolish sometimes. Remember Albus said he wasn't going to employ her but felt he needed to protect her after the prohecy and so hired her so he wasn't that impressed with her either. As for the predictions you tatd above well was the rat sitting at the table with them? Hardly as he was in Ron's pocket if he was there. By the way Neville's grandmother is still alive I think and he could see the Thestrals because of the death of anothere family member.

I guess in summing up that unless Sybil goes into a trance and gives a prediction I'd take all the others with a grain of salt and put any that seemed to come true down to coincidence.

Lord_Kaine April 26th, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar (Post 4478515)
Someone mentioned that it seemed unlikely for Harry to kill the Dark Lord, because no other witch or wizard has managed it.

Well, no other witch or wizard has managed to escape Voldemort when he has marked them for death. Harry has done this several times. No other witch or wizard has lived through the AK curse; Harry has.

Both Voldemort and Harry have overridden the typical "rules" of the Wizarding world; i.e. Volde's many horcruxes and Harry's survival of a death curse. They are both exceptional wizards; though some people say Harry is weak and isn't really that outstanding, one cannot forget that he has overcome Voldemort, one of the most powerful wizards of his age, more than once, he knows spells that are much more advanced than his age group (i.e. Patronus charm), he can effectively teach others these spells, and plus he did get through the Triwizard Tournament with good marks. He's the top of his class at Defense against the Dark Arts. I think Harry is great because he is determined, and he is determined because of the ones he loves; he cares about their well being and he cares about preserving their memories after they pass. Therefore, I think he will ultimately defeat Lord Voldemort.

Didn't Harrys parents escape Voldemort three times, or did they just defy him?

And Harry surviving the spell was because of his mother, not himself.

As for the Triwizard Tournament, he did have help from Hermione, the fake Moody, Dobby and Hagrid.

But you're right, Harry is determined when it comes to LV and defense against the dark arts. Though he still have some way to go, Snape wiped the floor with him in HBP. He has the ability to take alot of damage, but I can still not see him take LV without going down himself in the process. Maybe he will have to use his surroundings and learn strategy.

AnnaSofia April 26th, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Either way Harry has very difficult task to complete and i really don't know how he'll go through all that without wounds. DD who was the most wise wizard of times, he was injured twice and without the help of Snape he wouldn't survive either the first time. How Harry will pass through, destroying all the Horcruxes, without being hurt?

jacksparrow7 April 26th, 2007 6:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i do not think that harry will die! because if he does then that would be just BAD!!! cause then the last book will be so sad cause he dies and everyone will want to know what happens at hogwarts when he dies. who knows even if he dies then he might turn into a ghost at hogwarts to help all the students go around and find everything and not to do what he did when he was at hogwarts.:rockon:

Syzygy April 26th, 2007 11:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm not so sure the question is "Will Harry die?" I think the better question to ask might be "If he dies, will he STAY dead?"

I don't think the amount of phoenix imagery connected to Harry and Dumbledore is accidental. Harry's wand contains a phoenix feather. Dumbledore's familiar is (in all probability) that selfsame phoenix. Voldemort is opposed by the Order of the Phoenix.

And the phoenix symbolizes rebirth after death.

There's also the matter of the arch in the DoM. We know that Sirius couldn't return from the other side of that arch, but does that mean that it's entirely impossible for someone to return? Say, someone who wasn't supposed to be dead?

I think it's almost a given: Harry has to die, or something very like it. We've had too much foreshadowing for that not to happen, and I think there needs to be a face-to-face meeting with his parents...which is only possible if he dies.

From that point, I see two possibilities: either Harry has a Last Battle-esque happy ending where death isn't the end, but only the beginning, and he is reunited with his loved ones at last, or he comes back somehow.

I really have no idea which direction Ms. Rowling will take. Likely as not, she'll do something utterly unexpected and leave us all surprised.

But I wouldn't rule out a resurrection. Entirely too many phoenixes around for that.

hpfan1 April 26th, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Syzygy, I completely agree with everything you said. I think that it's pretty much inevitable that Harry will die, and that he'll either go into the afterlife to be with his loved ones or else be resurrected. I'm leaning more towards a resurrection.

Ophelia April 27th, 2007 6:38 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4329816)
Okay, broken record girl is here! I figured I could restate my case in the new thread, so that you don't all just think I'm a horrible fan who wants Harry dead :D

Anyway, basically I think it's likely that Harry will die and be reunited with his family, or die and come back from beyond the Veil, having at least met them again one more time. I mainly believe this because Voldemort, Harry's rival, is so terrified of death himself - so terrified that he would even split his own soul to avoid it. Harry is a parallel of Voldemort in lots of ways, but he's also very different; he makes good choices, he's brave, and he loves others. I think that, because of this, he'll give up his life for someone else - which will put a stress on the differences between them, since Harry will have done what Voldemort is so blindly scared of, and he'll have done it in the name of saving someone else.

However, I think that he may be given a choice of coming back, and that he'll take the chance if he's given it, because he's really got a lot to live for.

Wow...reading 42 pages of threads has really made my brain hurt :err: I really like the idea of Harry going through the veil but deciding to come back a la Syzgy's "phoenix" analogy...sort of the whole idea of Harry finally choosing to live/his family now...I don't know...maybe it's just wishful thinking...

I can definitely see everyone's points about Harry sacrificing himself, but I would see it as a little to cliche for my tastes....once again, that could just be wishful thinking again...

Natashaa April 27th, 2007 7:01 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Considering how Jo emphasizes that even in the magical world it is impossible for someone to come back from the dead, is it really possible for Harry to do that? If it was possible for someone to come back through the veil, why would everyone consider Sirius to be dead?

Nicolai_Krum April 27th, 2007 12:04 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will not die, but i think his magical powers will die with LV. Most of his powers came from LV.

Hinoema April 27th, 2007 12:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think it would be odd to have the prophecy worded as an either/or proposition but then have both the protagonist and antagonist die. As far as I'm concerned, one must live after the other no longer survives.

Lord_Kaine April 27th, 2007 4:18 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If Harry does die, I don't think he will be resurrected. I somehow sees him more as the kind of person who will "move on". But if so, I hope he gets the chance of saying goodbye to his friends one last time. He is like Sirius in this case, fight to the death if necessary, and move on.

twiggles April 27th, 2007 5:01 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
As I do not believe we have seen the last of the Veil, only a tantalizing glimpse in OOTP. I can see Harry going through the veil, alive, and coming back out. This would mirror much of the mythology of various cultures including the interesting editorial here on mugglenet surrounding celtic mythology.
Is it beyond the realms of possiblility that Harry will die? no. I just don't see it occuring.

BurrowGhoul April 27th, 2007 5:33 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by twiggles (Post 4481525)
As I do not believe we have seen the last of the Veil, only a tantalizing glimpse in OOTP. I can see Harry going through the veil, alive, and coming back out. This would mirror much of the mythology of various cultures including the interesting editorial here on mugglenet surrounding celtic mythology.
Is it beyond the realms of possiblility that Harry will die? no. I just don't see it occuring.

That's what I wondered after the covers were released. Maybe Harry and Voldemort are behind the veil, reaching up for someone to pull them out, and only Harry has someone who loves him enough to get him out.

twiggles April 27th, 2007 5:38 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul (Post 4481576)
That's what I wondered after the covers were released. Maybe Harry and Voldemort are behind the veil, reaching up for someone to pull them out, and only Harry has someone who loves him enough to get him out.


I had not thought of that in relation to the cover art. That is an interesting thought. I was thinking of them using accio for a wand but that could be a much better idea, with the shadow figures in the back being those beyond the veil.

Lillbet April 27th, 2007 6:09 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow (Post 4478342)
I don't understand why people still don't take Trelawney seriously after the prophecies. I know she acts quite silly, but you'd think all those accurate predictions would give her some credibility.

You raise a good point. I think it's easy to dismiss her because while her prophecies are, in a sense, accurate, they are a little too vague to be taken seriously. I believe she told Lavender that "the thing [she] was dreading would take place on [such and such a date]." While Lavender's bunny does die, it's not so obvious that it's something she's been dreading, as Hermione points out. It's almost as if Lavender seizes on this event to validate Professor Trelawney, when it could have referred to just about anything in her life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul (Post 4481576)
Maybe Harry and Voldemort are behind the veil, reaching up for someone to pull them out, and only Harry has someone who loves him enough to get him out.

I like that idea, but I'm not sure I can see it. Harry's body is turned away from his reaching arm if someone is reaching down to help you, you turn toward them. And... we're OT. :blush:

inkling7 April 27th, 2007 6:13 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If he was reaching out for someone - here we go with the power of love that Voldemort knows not - then maybe Ginny's love for Harry and Harry's love for Ginny might be this power of love and as nobody loves Voldemort that's how he is vanquished?

twiggles April 27th, 2007 6:17 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Inkling7 good idea. Both are trying to get back from the other side of the veil and Ginny is reaching for Harry. The only problem with this I see is why could Harry not pull Sirius out?

AnnaSofia April 27th, 2007 6:31 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Or it might be the love of people who died. The love of his parents, Sirius and DD pulling him out. LV has nobody alive or dead who really loves him to pull him out.

Randomuser777 April 27th, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I completely agree with the idea of Harry dying but then coming back to life and the links with the phonix. Was it ever mentioned what Dumbledore's patronus was because i think it would definitly be a phonix? But back to Harry's death when the Basilisk almost killed him in book 2 Fawks saved his life and i think thats what will happen at the end of DH. When Dumbledore dyes we know Fawks disappears and i think Fawks will appear when Harry's died and sacrifice himself to bring back Harry from his(fawk's) ashes.

Marchese April 27th, 2007 10:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If Harry dies, how would the book go on? I know it's written in omnicent narration, but it's still written through Harry's eyes. You never hear how Ron, Hermione or any of the other characters feel. You only know how Harry actually feels. It almost impossible for him to die!

Syzygy April 27th, 2007 10:32 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Natashaa (Post 4480952)
Considering how Jo emphasizes that even in the magical world it is impossible for someone to come back from the dead, is it really possible for Harry to do that? If it was possible for someone to come back through the veil, why would everyone consider Sirius to be dead?


This is why I suggested "passing through the veil" rather than dying. Sirius was blasted in the chest and then fell through the veil; though there's some debate as to the nature of the spell that blasted him, I think we can reasonably say that he was dead when he went through.

So what happens to someone who goes through that veil while still alive? Do they die?

This seems to be precisely the kind of word-game Ms. Rowling likes to play...to tell us quite clearly that those who are dead cannot come back, but set up a plot device whereby a LIVING person could enter the world of the dead.

Strider62442 April 28th, 2007 5:28 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I dont really subscribe to the view that they are behind the veil on the US cover. If Harry and Voldemort were on "the other side" theyd both be dead. There would be no need to be in combat. Perhaps since Voldemort has his Horcruxes, he could pass through and technically still be living if part of his soul remained earth bound. But if Harry went through he would be irrevocably dead just like Sirius. Once again, I think once a person dies they become inactive in the good vs evil thing.

Wherever the last meeting takes place, there will be a stress on what Dumbledore stressed in "Horcruxes"; the fact that Voldemort overlooked the value of the unbroken human soul and shattered his repeatedly while Harry has only added strength to his over the years. I think its that that will ensure that Harry lives. JKR has said that Harry is no Christ figure, so I don't think there will be any actual death/resurrection involved. I think based on how JKR has used the soul as a device indicates that Harry's soul will act as a shield from death more effective than Voldemort's Horcruxes (dividing his soul) were.

Natashaa April 28th, 2007 6:26 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Syzygy (Post 4482102)
This is why I suggested "passing through the veil" rather than dying. Sirius was blasted in the chest and then fell through the veil; though there's some debate as to the nature of the spell that blasted him, I think we can reasonably say that he was dead when he went through.

So what happens to someone who goes through that veil while still alive? Do they die?

This seems to be precisely the kind of word-game Ms. Rowling likes to play...to tell us quite clearly that those who are dead cannot come back, but set up a plot device whereby a LIVING person could enter the world of the dead.

If I remember correctly, Sirius was blasted in the chest by a jet of red light. That couldn't have been the killing curse, probably just a stunning spell. He was alive when he passed through the veil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider62442
I dont really subscribe to the view that they are behind the veil on the US cover. If Harry and Voldemort were on "the other side" theyd both be dead. There would be no need to be in combat. Perhaps since Voldemort has his Horcruxes, he could pass through and technically still be living if part of his soul remained earth bound. But if Harry went through he would be irrevocably dead just like Sirius. Once again, I think once a person dies they become inactive in the good vs evil thing.

Wherever the last meeting takes place, there will be a stress on what Dumbledore stressed in "Horcruxes"; the fact that Voldemort overlooked the value of the unbroken human soul and shattered his repeatedly while Harry has only added strength to his over the years. I think its that that will ensure that Harry lives. JKR has said that Harry is no Christ figure, so I don't think there will be any actual death/resurrection involved. I think based on how JKR has used the soul as a device indicates that Harry's soul will act as a shield from death more effective than Voldemort's Horcruxes (dividing his soul) were.

:agree:

BurrowGhoul April 28th, 2007 2:15 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Natashaa (Post 4482703)
If I remember correctly, Sirius was blasted in the chest by a jet of red light. That couldn't have been the killing curse, probably just a stunning spell. He was alive when he passed through the veil.

Actually, a jet of red light missed him, then he was hit by another jet. The natural assumption is that it was red too, since it wasn't specified.

Lord_Kaine April 28th, 2007 2:49 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul (Post 4483082)
Actually, a jet of red light missed him, then he was hit by another jet. The natural assumption is that it was red too, since it wasn't specified.

It could be both ways, I'm not really sure.

He was hit by the spell, "the laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock..". This could mean that he was still alive. But when I look at it again, it could very well be the opposite. But "Harry saw the look of mingled fear and surprise on his god-father's wasted, once handsome face.." tells me that he's alive, and somehow aware what's happening to him. If he had been hit by the spell, he wouldn't have time to register fear, would he? Alas, this is only my guess.

witherwings68 April 28th, 2007 3:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i have looked at it logicaly and as much as i dont want to admit it my conclusion is that harry will die. J.K. has droped 3 major clues that harry will not live throughout this book.
read all clues and conclusion before deciding for yourself

clue one - the part of the prophecy most recited in the book neither can live while the other survives

clue 2 - at the end of ootf harry dose not care hes going to die. almost excited

clue 3 - the most imprtant clue besides the actual prophecy in the begining of thbp Fudge "that is --i dont know----- is a man alive if he cant be killed?"

conclusion
the dark lord is not alive right now. the only way to kill him is to make him live again by destroying the horcruxes. accepting that harry dose have a part of lv's soul in him harry must die in order for LV to Live (then be killed).

Syzygy April 28th, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Witherwings,

Your line of reasoning brings up a very intriguing question about the wording of the prophecy: "Neither can live while the other survives."

Literally: as long as one is not dead, the other can't live.

You have pointed out that this is most likely absolutely true for Lord Voldemort: everything in book 6 points to the notion that he's not truly alive now.

So why would it also be true for Harry? That's the really interesting question.

witherwings68 April 28th, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
the prophecy has 2 meanings the one i stated above and harry cannot live his life until voldemort if finaly gone.

i like being the only one posting on this thread :lol: no one can argue with me

LeiaShadow April 29th, 2007 4:15 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by witherwings68 (Post 4483243)
i have looked at it logicaly and as much as i dont want to admit it my conclusion is that harry will die. J.K. has droped 3 major clues that harry will not live throughout this book.
read all clues and conclusion before deciding for yourself

clue one - the part of the prophecy most recited in the book neither can live while the other survives

clue 2 - at the end of ootf harry dose not care hes going to die. almost excited

clue 3 - the most imprtant clue besides the actual prophecy in the begining of thbp Fudge "that is --i dont know----- is a man alive if he cant be killed?"

conclusion
the dark lord is not alive right now. the only way to kill him is to make him live again by destroying the horcruxes. accepting that harry dose have a part of lv's soul in him harry must die in order for LV to Live (then be killed).

I follow your logic. The Dark Lord is not alive, because he cannot be killed. By destroying all the horcruxes, Harry will make the Dark Lord live again. The only part that I disagree with is Harry is a Horcrux. I still don't understand how people reach the Harrycrux conclusion... But that's not supposed to be part of this thread, is it? But Clue #2 that you mention does strongly suggest that Harry will die. I'm moving more and more into the Harry-will-die camp...

I'm going to hardly recover if he dies, though. How will I live through life if Harry is gone? Though I suppose if JKR did it in a graceful, tragic, yet necessary (for the greater good) way (like Orson Scott Card with Julian Delphiki, and countless other authors with countless other characters), I can survive. I fear for those that won't be able to take it, though. There had better be a hotline for people traumatized by the outcome of Harry Potter Seven... I know I'll need it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syzygy (Post 4483411)
So why would it also be true for Harry? That's the really interesting question.

...Because Harry hasn't fully risen to meet his destiny yet (I'm talking about Final Battle or something, not Death/Life outcome)? Yet another HP-SW parallel comes to mind... Luke wasn't fully himself--hadn't fully risen to meet his destiny--until he became a Jedi. Harry hasn't become what he's destined to be. He's not a Jedi yet. He hasn't faced the Final Battle (Final Luke vs. Darth Vader Battle = Final Battle with Harry vs. Lord Voldemort) yet, and thus hasn't become fully alive.

But that's just one idea. There are thousands of others, I'm sure. (I'd love for someone to owl/e-mail me and point out another idea (or two, or three...) of how Harry isn't "truly alive" yet.)

witherwings68 April 29th, 2007 8:24 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
the idea that harry is a horcrux stems from the fact that in cos dumbledor said that vl put some of himself in harry and the bazzar conecton they have that i belive could only happen if harry had lv's sould in him

Gryffindorhero April 29th, 2007 11:17 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I, a long time fan of this elegant tale, sincerely hope that Harry does not "bite the big one." However, it would seem that the all-knowing author is a fan of archetypes in literature. She has not strayed too far from Joseph Campbell's hero myth. And the hero always dies... so.....

Does this make me happy? NO WAY! I want Harry to ride off into the sunset with Ginny in a convertible with the top down. But I feel that this cannot happen. Not with the gravity of the situation that presses down on Harry at the moment. He isn't just trying to save the world. He has to fight a not-so-human, narcissistic, uncaring, and extremely dangerous villian to get there.

All I can say is....

Good luck Harry.

LeiaShadow April 29th, 2007 11:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gryffindorhero (Post 4485922)
I, a long time fan of this elegant tale, sincerely hope that Harry does not "bite the big one." However, it would seem that the all-knowing author is a fan of archetypes in literature. She has not strayed too far from Joseph Campbell's hero myth. And the hero always dies... so.....

Does this make me happy? NO WAY! I want Harry to ride off into the sunset with Ginny in a convertible with the top down. But I feel that this cannot happen. Not with the gravity of the situation that presses down on Harry at the moment. He isn't just trying to save the world. He has to fight a not-so-human, narcissistic, uncaring, and extremely dangerous villian to get there.

All I can say is....

Good luck Harry.

Nicely written. I agree with you completely. Harry has so much going against him, so much that I'm afraid to think of the odds. I hope JKR knows what she's doing, whatever the outcome of Harry's tale will be.

muchXmoreXmacho April 30th, 2007 1:32 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Oh God, I hope not. My worst fear is having to read through his death. Honestly, I think she has come to love Harry too much to kill him off now - and as much as she likes to mess with us and try to make us speculate about whether or not she's going to kill our hero, I think that when it comes down to it he is going to live through this.

witherwings68 April 30th, 2007 2:09 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
if harry dies ill probly cry

MaWeasley April 30th, 2007 9:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I used to think it was quite possible that Harry or another of the trio might die. That chess game in PS/SS seemed like obvious foreshadowing of Ron's death to me. But then I heard that JKR has given her approval for some kind of Harry Potter amusement park and I had to change my mind. I think it would just be too macabre to have children frolicking in a dead wizard's amusement park. I just can't picture a scenario where it would work to have Harry dead, especially or even Ron or Hermione gone. So now I'm guessing not only Harry, but Hermione and Ron live as well. And of course I can't wait to ride a broom or taste a butterbeer.

LJB85 May 1st, 2007 12:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by muchXmoreXmacho (Post 4486216)
Oh God, I hope not. My worst fear is having to read through his death. Honestly, I think she has come to love Harry too much to kill him off now - and as much as she likes to mess with us and try to make us speculate about whether or not she's going to kill our hero, I think that when it comes down to it he is going to live through this.

It's interesting you say this....yet I think it might be a wrong assumption that if Harry dies, the author shows less love for her character.

So many of us (myself included!) think "Death" is a a bad thing. In fact, our civilizations makes it the saddest experience. I am starting to think the ending wil be more complex than whether or not Harry Potter lives or dies in the Deathly Hallows. I really think his death will be a victory, because Voldemort is not going to get a "proper death."

The death of either Harry or Voldemort is not going to determine who won. For instance, the prophecy does not say anything about victory. The prophecy mentions one must die, for neither can live while the other survives.

Perhaps a philosophical interpretation of Deathly Hallows may turn out to be on the nature of death and the purpose of life. Deathly Hallows is going to show that birth and death are the same thing. Energy resonates eternally, our quintessence to put it magically.

There still is a good chance Harry will die....but when it comes down to it I'm still hoping he'll live.:tu: Whether or not the Boy Who Lived dies, it will be an extremely dignified way for Harry Potter to go on. For Harry's death is a likely possibility. It might just happen, being explained as another great adventure.

LeiaShadow May 1st, 2007 2:51 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaWeasley (Post 4487588)
I used to think it was quite possible that Harry or another of the trio might die. That chess game in PS/SS seemed like obvious foreshadowing of Ron's death to me. But then I heard that JKR has given her approval for some kind of Harry Potter amusement park and I had to change my mind. I think it would just be too macabre to have children frolicking in a dead wizard's amusement park. I just can't picture a scenario where it would work to have Harry dead, especially or even Ron or Hermione gone. So now I'm guessing not only Harry, but Hermione and Ron live as well. And of course I can't wait to ride a broom or taste a butterbeer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LJB85 (Post 4487883)
It's interesting you say this....yet I think it might be a wrong assumption that if Harry dies, the author shows less love for her character.

So many of us (myself included!) think "Death" is a a bad thing. In fact, our civilizations makes it the saddest experience. I am starting to think the ending wil be more complex than whether or not Harry Potter lives or dies in the Deathly Hallows. I really think his death will be a victory, because Voldemort is not going to get a "proper death."

The death of either Harry or Voldemort is not going to determine who won. For instance, the prophecy does not say anything about victory. The prophecy mentions one must die, for neither can live while the other survives.

Perhaps a philosophical interpretation of Deathly Hallows may turn out to be on the nature of death and the purpose of life. Deathly Hallows is going to show that birth and death are the same thing. Energy resonates eternally, our quintessence to put it magically.

There still is a good chance Harry will die....but when it comes down to it I'm still hoping he'll live.:tu: Whether or not the Boy Who Lived dies, it will be an extremely dignified way for Harry Potter to go on. For Harry's death is a likely possibility. It might just happen, being explained as another great adventure.

Yesterday I was very convinced that Harry was going to die. I just had that gut feeling and had even come to the deathly conclusion with logic and valid reasoning.

But MaWeasley makes an excellent point. For one thing, if Harry dies in Book Seven, Warner Bros. would have to show the death in Movie Seven (come on, they're not allowed to change the outcome of the series!). And that, above all, will eliminate their youthful audiences. Parents won't want to take their kids to see a movie whose outcome is death. Likewise, parents won't want to take their kids to a theme park which centers around a book/movie series that ends in the death of the main character. So Harry can't die.

I would love if Harry Potter ended with some philosophy. I just live for those books that seem "normal" at first (first glance, sometimes even the first reading), then turn out to be full of philosophy (though sometimes it takes a few re-reads and a good philosophical debate in English class prior to re-reading). Every book is philosophical, really, if we care to dig deep enough to find it. Some of the best books in the world appear philosophical to some people (well, mostly me :blush: ), and completely the opposite to the rest of the world. And I'm fine with that. If Harry Potter turns out to be one of those things, it might even be better than it being outwardly philosophical, because those that don't care for that kind of book will be blissfully ignorant of the philosophy below the surface. I'm inclined to think that it's likely to turn out that way, whether JKR will be doing it deliberately or not. That's how most books are, I think. And then we won't get tons of people complaining about how serious it was, and how annoying it was to get a bunch of incomprehendable stuff about life and death in the middle of a fun book about a wizard.

But now I'm really confused about the Harry lives/dies stuff. What's going to happen? Which camp should I go to? Both the Harry-lives camp and the Harry-dies camp have stupendously good arguements for this issue. I just wish I knew where I stand on it, as well.

Celestrin May 1st, 2007 6:28 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiaShadow (Post 4488203)
But MaWeasley makes an excellent point. For one thing, if Harry dies in Book Seven, Warner Bros. would have to show the death in Movie Seven (come on, they're not allowed to change the outcome of the series!). And that, above all, will eliminate their youthful audiences. Parents won't want to take their kids to see a movie whose outcome is death. Likewise, parents won't want to take their kids to a theme park which centers around a book/movie series that ends in the death of the main character. So Harry can't die.

...

But now I'm really confused about the Harry lives/dies stuff. What's going to happen? Which camp should I go to? Both the Harry-lives camp and the Harry-dies camp have stupendously good arguements for this issue. I just wish I knew where I stand on it, as well.

Jo did not end this series based on warnerbrothers. She knew how it would end when she wrote book 1. She will end it the way she planed from the begining.

You don't have to join a camp! Just sit back and enjoy. Nothing in this series is straightforward, and trying to pin it down can make it unfun.

LeiaShadow May 1st, 2007 6:33 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestrin (Post 4488469)
Jo did not end this series based on warnerbrothers. She knew how it would end when she wrote book 1. She will end it the way she planed from the begining.

You're right, Jo isn't basing it on Warner Brothers. But Warner Brothers is basing it on her books. And because she knew what was going to happen since book 1, then she must have known what she was doing when she sold Warner Bros. the movie rights. She wouldn't have made them so obligated to kill off a popular character, I am thinking. She would not let a theme park be created if the main character of the park is going to die. These are some strong arguements for the Harry Lives camp, I think.

I know I don't have to join a camp, but it's hard not to. I just don't like being so undecided....

Spritey May 1st, 2007 2:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LJB85 (Post 4487883)
It's interesting you say this....yet I think it might be a wrong assumption that if Harry dies, the author shows less love for her character.

So many of us (myself included!) think "Death" is a a bad thing. In fact, our civilizations makes it the saddest experience. I am starting to think the ending wil be more complex than whether or not Harry Potter lives or dies in the Deathly Hallows. I really think his death will be a victory, because Voldemort is not going to get a "proper death."

The death of either Harry or Voldemort is not going to determine who won. For instance, the prophecy does not say anything about victory. The prophecy mentions one must die, for neither can live while the other survives.

Perhaps a philosophical interpretation of Deathly Hallows may turn out to be on the nature of death and the purpose of life. Deathly Hallows is going to show that birth and death are the same thing. Energy resonates eternally, our quintessence to put it magically.

There still is a good chance Harry will die....but when it comes down to it I'm still hoping he'll live.:tu: Whether or not the Boy Who Lived dies, it will be an extremely dignified way for Harry Potter to go on. For Harry's death is a likely possibility. It might just happen, being explained as another great adventure.

Argh, I kind of love you right now :D Exactly exactly exactly! This is what I've been harping on about; you know, what did Dumbledore say? Death is the next great adventure, which IMO means that in Jo's universe, death is not the end. It's a continuation, if anything. Now, the villian of the series (the villian, guys! The guy who kills mudbloods and thinks torture is a-okay!) thinks differently - he thinks death is shameful and weak, he's terrified of it - so whose side are we on, when we think about it like that? I'm gonna go with Dumbledore every time.

Honestly, how many of us remember dying? Odd question, I know, but I personally don't remember experiencing anything of the sort. So how do we know it's bad? Especially in fiction, which is really limitless in terms of possibilities? Think Luna!

BurrowGhoul May 1st, 2007 2:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
But is Harry's mind well-organized? And should he be on to the "next great adventure" when there should be so many more for him in this life? Dumbledore was speaking of the Flamels, who were over 600 years old, and, we can presume, himself, who was around 150. Harry is still young, and still has life left to live.

Spritey May 1st, 2007 3:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul (Post 4488907)
But is Harry's mind well-organized? And should he be on to the "next great adventure" when there should be so many more for him in this life? Dumbledore was speaking of the Flamels, who were over 600 years old, and, we can presume, himself, who was around 150. Harry is still young, and still has life left to live.

Good point. I do think Harry's mind is well-organised - he may have only lived 17 years, but he's learned so much in the last 6, and had some amazing times with his friends. I mean, there's so much in his life, even with all the bad things - he's not wasted his time, by any means. I don't think him dying undermines that at all, in fact, I'd kind of say that it strengthens it. That's just my way of looking at things though, possibly, since I loves me my cliches :)

Also, you know, we only get 7 years with Harry, if DH follows the pattern, so is it really so bad that he should die at the end of them? It doesn't stop the seven years being awesome, does it? I think that's how I'm looking at it for the characters, too. I'm probably not being coherent here, but I know what I mean... hmm, I can't think of another way to phrase it.

inkling7 May 1st, 2007 4:26 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I suppose you could have a theme park on the 'Boy who lived and died and lives again?'

I mean you could have ride called Dumbledore's Dive or something even though he is dead?

However I think unless the Theme Park is set up so the proceeds go to charity I think the whloe thing is tacky and is in bad taste.

inufan625 May 2nd, 2007 3:20 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by witherwings68 (Post 4483243)
i have looked at it logicaly and as much as i dont want to admit it my conclusion is that harry will die. J.K. has droped 3 major clues that harry will not live throughout this book.
read all clues and conclusion before deciding for yourself

clue one - the part of the prophecy most recited in the book neither can live while the other survives

clue 2 - at the end of ootf harry dose not care hes going to die. almost excited

clue 3 - the most imprtant clue besides the actual prophecy in the begining of thbp Fudge "that is --i dont know----- is a man alive if he cant be killed?"

conclusion
the dark lord is not alive right now. the only way to kill him is to make him live again by destroying the horcruxes. accepting that harry dose have a part of lv's soul in him harry must die in order for LV to Live (then be killed).


My main problem with your conclusion and the whole Harry is a horocrux, and so he has to die is reasoned as follows:

Harry is a horocrux (accidental or not) so he has to die to finish off Voldemort. First let me say I don't think he is one, but if I did, I still wouldn't think he had to die. If Harry is one, then he would have to die before Voldemort because canon leads us to believe that the bit in Voldemort has to be destroyed last or else he can come back because of the anchor the remaining bit would provide. So how is Harry supposed to kill Voldemort like the prophesy says he must, if he is already dead? Also I don't believe Harry would have to die to destroy the soul bit in him, is this was the case. The diary was damaged to destroy the soul, but it still existed after and the same was true for the ring. I would go so far to say that if Nagini is a horocrux, there would be a way to remove the soul piece without killing her, only it is easier just to kill a giant poisonous snake and what needs to be done anyway.

Eliya May 2nd, 2007 12:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Strange enough but if at the begining I was 100% sure Harry wont' die, now i start to doubt (now it's sort of 60% of me for that he will live, 40% that he will die).... I don't think he's a horcrux himself, but he indeed may die defending the ones he loves.

LoveWeasleys May 3rd, 2007 3:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Okay SO hear is my theroy... If Harry dies in Book 7 I hope it is this way....
He beats Voldemort, then in the Epliloge (SP??) he goes on to live a LONG and happy life with Ginny and their children and then dies as a VERY OLD wizard years later.
(But it would be great if he never dies :p
I remember reading somewhere that JKR was going to make it almost impossible for other people to write "spin-off" books from the serious so maybe if she covers the rest of his life in the Epliloge (Sp?) then no one can right other books.
BB

Celestrin May 3rd, 2007 6:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiaShadow
You're right, Jo isn't basing it on Warner Brothers. But Warner Brothers is basing it on her books. And because she knew what was going to happen since book 1, then she must have known what she was doing when she sold Warner Bros. the movie rights. She wouldn't have made them so obligated to kill off a popular character, I am thinking. She would not let a theme park be created if the main character of the park is going to die. These are some strong arguements for the Harry Lives camp, I think.

I don't think Harry will die, but I also don't think Jo could have stoped the media fanfaire of HP. Do you really think she would have said, "Well, because Harry will die at the end you can't make a movie, or a figurine, or a theme park."? Sorry I disagree.

fnorsdad May 3rd, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I once was fairly certain Harry was going to die. In SS, the centaurs seem to predict that Harry is going to die, and that Firenze is meddling with the fates by saving Harry. Also Trelawny's constant predictions, and of course the prophesy. Dumbledore says that Voldemort does not understand that there are things worse than death, which made me think that Voldemort would kill Harry, but himself suffer a fate worse than death. Recently I have come to disagree with this analasis. In Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore tells Harry that the sorting hat put him in Griffendor rather than Slytherin because Harry didn't want to go into Slytherin. I believe this is a common theme in the Harry Potter books, and that is, we must control our own destiny, and take charge of our own lives. The reason the prophesy pertains to Harry is because Voldemort chose to mark him as his equal. I still believe Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death, but I believe Harry will live and the prophesy will go unfulfilled, like the Centaurs' divinations, because Harry will choose not to fulfill his destiny but to create his own destiny.

bigjimmy May 5th, 2007 3:04 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
NO!!!!! :scared:

gUcCiGryffindor May 5th, 2007 3:28 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

charmedp7 May 5th, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Okay, so about the 'Harry is a horcrux' ordeal, I do belive that he's a horcrux!
BUT I don't think he's going to die either.
If Harry was a horcrux, he would have one seventh of LV's soul in him right? Along with his whole soul. So if Harry goes through the veil or something like that happens (which I belive will, JKR will make it seem like the dies, just to prove furthermore that isn't scared of sacrifising for someone else...Ginny?), and he "dies"...wouldn't the weaker soul die, rather then the whole soul?
So, I do belive he's a horcrux, which is something I point-blank refused to belive in the past. And he will live...there's too much life waiting for him.
But while I was thinking about this...and as much as I belive that he WILL live..for some strange reason...I can't see Harry growing old.
Well, we'll find out in 77 days! :)

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 3:56 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Ha ha ha I like that saying "Give me Harry Potter or give me death."--Ellie

That is good!!

He has too many people on his side willing to help him. They won't let him die!

BurrowGhoul May 5th, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fnorsdad (Post 4492894)
I once was fairly certain Harry was going to die. In SS, the centaurs seem to predict that Harry is going to die, and that Firenze is meddling with the fates by saving Harry. Also Trelawny's constant predictions, and of course the prophesy. Dumbledore says that Voldemort does not understand that there are things worse than death, which made me think that Voldemort would kill Harry, but himself suffer a fate worse than death. Recently I have come to disagree with this analasis. In Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore tells Harry that the sorting hat put him in Griffendor rather than Slytherin because Harry didn't want to go into Slytherin. I believe this is a common theme in the Harry Potter books, and that is, we must control our own destiny, and take charge of our own lives. The reason the prophesy pertains to Harry is because Voldemort chose to mark him as his equal. I still believe Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death, but I believe Harry will live and the prophesy will go unfulfilled, like the Centaurs' divinations, because Harry will choose not to fulfill his destiny but to create his own destiny.

Well said.

ComicBookWorm May 5th, 2007 1:49 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4492432)
I remember reading somewhere that JKR was going to make it almost impossible for other people to write "spin-off" books from the serious so maybe if she covers the rest of his life in the Epliloge (Sp?) then no one can right other books.

Frankly, I have never seen a comment like from her. If you have a quote saying that, please link it for us. What she has said is that we won't need any prequels or sequels once she finshed since what we need to know will be in the book, meaning she is going to try to tie up as many loose ends as possible. I'm certain she has tight copyright control over her material and is not worried about others writing more Harry Potter books.

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 2:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4495642)
Frankly, I have never seen a comment like from her. If you have a quote saying that, please link it for us. What she has said is that we won't need any prequels or sequels once she finshed since what we need to know will be in the book, meaning she is going to try to tie up as many loose ends as possible. I'm certain she has tight copyright control over her material and is not worried about others writing more Harry Potter books.

I think this is the one I was talking about. I remember she said something a long the lines of it not being like Star Wars :) Possibly on her website...I will look...:)

ComicBookWorm May 5th, 2007 2:25 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4495661)
I think this is the one I was talking about. I remember she said something a long the lines of it not being like Star Wars :) Possibly on her website...I will look...:)

When she said that she was trying to shoot down theories about Harry being related to Voldemort. It actually took her several pronouncements before she got the idea across.

I suspect that we obsessive fans will still want more backstory than she does finally give us. But, the truth of the matter is that what we want to know and what we really need to know for the story to work are two entirely different things. :lol:

Certain heroes (like Superman) were created by starving unknowns who gave away almost all rights to the characters. In Jo's case, she was a starving unknown for only one of her books. Since then, I'm certain that subsequent negotiations have secured her rights as tightly as possible.

And to tie this back to will Harry die? No. Period. And she certainly won't need to kill him off to protect her control of her characters. Characters get resurrected all the time in comic books and other fiction. All they need is a creative explanation why the character wasn't really dead.

Spock died, but then he was back again in the next movie.

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4495676)
And to tie this back to will Harry die? No. Period. And she certainly won't need to kill him off to protect her control of her characters. Characters get resurrected all the time in comic books and other fiction. All they need is a creative explanation why the character wasn't really dead.

Good answer!

I found one of the quotes on her site in the rumor section where it was asked if she would do prequals with Jame's and Lily's story and she said, "Too much Star Wars will do this to a person."

P.S. (it would be great to get more back story...I know! I will be happy with whatever she tells us.) :)

ComicBookWorm May 5th, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4495692)
I found one of the quotes on her site in the rumor section where it was asked if she would do prequals with Jame's and Lily's story and she said, "Too much Star Wars will do this to a person."

I forgot about that one.

muchXmoreXmacho May 5th, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I dont think Harry will die in Deathly Hallows, because Jo has really become too attatched to him to kill him off at age 17!! I think that she has to include the rest of his life up until the day he dies in the epilogue, but not because of people rewriting her stuff - just because it would kill us not to know. Honestly, even if she does include an in-depth description of Harry's life post-book 7 in the epilogue, she cant do much about people rewriting or making more movies, etc. That's what happens with classics - version after version just keep coming out. Look at Romeo and Juliet - Leo Dicaprio with a gun. What was that?

RyanHBP May 5th, 2007 7:25 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I have a theory that Harry is going to jump through the veil. I Think that the trio will go through, but ron and hermione get spit out again. harry is going through to get the last horcrux.

Charline81 May 5th, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider62442 (Post 4330573)
JKR has carefully kept open the possibility that Harry could die. She acknowledged the scenario where the writer kills the character to keep them theirs for eternity. But it struck me as odd because its really a non-issue. Could anyone ever concievably take up Harry Potter without JKR's permission? Harry is already locked in as hers and only hers, so the death based on closing off Harry to other authors seems pointless since hes closed off to them alive. Yet JKR made a point of acknowledging it. I think she wants to keep us guessing and in suspense.

The series, its message and themes point more toward Harry living. Throughout the books Harry lives against increasingly astounding odds. But he has suffered terribly along the way. To kill him upon achieving final victory would be too cruel. Seeing his parents and Sirius and Dumbledore again wouldn't be enough. He has more on the ground going for him in Ginny and Ron and Hermione.

Its not as simple as saying "you cant kill him because it will upset the kids." Let us not forget that this series has likely upset most people already. Cedric's murder was disturbing, Sirius's was upsetting, Dumbledore's was downright crushing. The series has already established through those deaths, especially Dumbledore's that heroes often meet their end unnaturally. The series has not been all miraculous victories for the Light Side in Harry's triumphs and escapes. This series has also been filled with predictable and inevitable numerous victories that evil wins.

Then there is the wizarding world to think about. These people as a society have given Harry very little but pain. The society is sufficently sunken prejudice and corruption to deserve what its getting. They don't desserve to be saved by Harry's sacrifice. It would do much more than frustrate many of us. The peace after the war will be botched by whoever is left to lead the wizarding community and minimal change will insue because all the wise leadership was killed in the war. It's happened before in our world. It would be too real for it to be presented in HP.

It would also seem too cruel to Ginny. Sure, its not as though they were married or anything like that, and yes she could move on and have a happy life. But she would always remember and wonder. Can someone ever really move on from something like that? This is a situation that has occured too often also. And we all already knew it. Why insert despair into a series that has been about hope? I look at Ginny more as other people have mentioned, as evidence that Harry has a purpose after Voldemort. She has been explicit in saying that Harry is not a Christ figure. She has also been careful to say again and again that that the prophecy is only significant because both Harry and Voldemort have chosen to take it seriously. So you can't say Harry came into the world for the sole purpose of killing Voldemort, it isn't true to the message about destiny and the gradual ascension of Ginny as Harry's ideal girl reinforces this.

Harry is clearly willing to die to get rid of Voldemort and would not hesitate to sacrifice himself for those he loves. This doesnt mean that it must be so. It is critical that Harry is willing to do as his mother did. In the end I think it will be like when he looked into the Mirror of Erised; one willing to lay down their life for others will be able to vanquish Voldemort and live.

Death is present throughout the whole of the series. But while keeping it real, with innocents and good guys dying, she has also cultivated a refined and hopeful presentation of the subject. In Order of the Phoenix Harry heard voices behind the veil. This was a subtle but obvious confirmation to Harry that there is definately something on the other side. Before the moment when he talked about it with Luna Harry viewed death simply as the end. JKR presents that view of death without Dr. House's "let's make sure you know that your existance and your pain and suffering is all for nothing". JKR has routinely injected a tone of mystery and hope into the subject.

Perhaps this could be viewed as preparing the reader and Harry for his ultimate demise. At least he'll see his dead loved ones again. But while this could be a comfort to Harry, the one who has almost literal proof that death isnt just "the end", it is little comfort to us, the readers who have no such comfort as voices from beyond the veil, and we who have Dr. House weekly to give us our dose of depression.:lol: I think its a bad way to end the series. It pretty much says "Do the right thing kids, and even if you die, and die you probably will, and violently by the way, (since most people who do right in the face of evil do) and you will be with your dead loved ones in the beyond... if there really is one." Its not really an uplifting message and not at all consistent with the rest of the series. Even in the books that end in darkness, GoF, OotP, HBP, there is still the lingering hope. This is present in the last line of each of those books. Harry's death would just bring about the line "so what was the point of all this?"

Then there is the "Frodo" argument about Harry as we know him dying and maybe not being enough left to go on. I just can't see this happening. Harry is stronger than people give him credit for. I get surprised when people think he won't defeat Voldemort without Ginny holding his hand or something as if it wasnt his inner strength that got him through every serious crisis in his life. Sure Harry "cracked up a little" in OotP. But that was more a natural outgrowth of the strain he had been put through for five years and coming to the realization that it isn't going to end. By HBP though he has revived perceptably. His resolve has never been stronger. He isnt damaged goods to the point that he can't function, interact and love and he never will be. One of the keys to Harry's greatness according to Dumbledore was Harry's ability not to let evil corrupt or change his fundamental core. Predicting that Harry living would just leave severly damaged goods is inconsistant with what Dumbledore called "the incomparable power of the soul that is unbroken and whole."

For these reasons I think he will live. The series will end on its strongest message of hope. The good person can conquer evil totally. I think we will see Harry come out older in spirit and very weary. And who wouldnt be? The series has also been about Harry's education in a realm of magic outside of spells and potions-- corny but true. Harry will emerge from this thing with more wisdom than most people achieve in their lifetimes.

(new here hello everyone)
:tu:
Even if that whole thing about possibly killing Harry to end the story so that others can not come behind her and write more on it were true....even killing Harry couldnt end the story and keep someone from doing that, because theres an entire back story that she has only given bits of, someone if they actually wanted to and could get the rights to do it has enough bits to go of of to write a prequel its one of those stories that isnt that easy to just end by killing the main person off.
Also without gaining the rights no one could go behind her and write more about it, and if they did I can bet anything it wouldnt be very good!
No one can be JK, and get into her mind that easily so the books wouldnt be that good or at least not to me.

A far as the back story I would along with a few others I know kill for a pre quel lol but thats neither here nor there.

All I can do is hope she doesnt kill Harry, and honestly when you have someone like Stephen King begging you NOT to kill Harry,you should take note and not kill him BUT thats just my opinion cause I dont want Harry to die, I'd be a big cry baby lol I'm 26 years old and I know if I would freak out if she killed Harry, Im sure the younger children will as well, but like someone else pointed out she writes them for her not others, so I can only hope she feels as strongly as most of us in not wanting Harry to die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnorsdad (Post 4492894)
I once was fairly certain Harry was going to die. In SS, the centaurs seem to predict that Harry is going to die, and that Firenze is meddling with the fates by saving Harry. Also Trelawny's constant predictions, and of course the prophesy. Dumbledore says that Voldemort does not understand that there are things worse than death, which made me think that Voldemort would kill Harry, but himself suffer a fate worse than death. Recently I have come to disagree with this analasis. In Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore tells Harry that the sorting hat put him in Griffendor rather than Slytherin because Harry didn't want to go into Slytherin. I believe this is a common theme in the Harry Potter books, and that is, we must control our own destiny, and take charge of our own lives. The reason the prophesy pertains to Harry is because Voldemort chose to mark him as his equal. I still believe Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death, but I believe Harry will live and the prophesy will go unfulfilled, like the Centaurs' divinations, because Harry will choose not to fulfill his destiny but to create his own destiny.



:tu:
Agree specially on the part about Voldemort having made Harry his equal, if ya remember Neville also matches the prophecy but Voldemort only got part of the actual prophecy I think he only got the "The one born with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…. Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies… " part (have to go back and reread again lol) but he jumped just from what little he had and choose Harry, when Neville could have just as easily been choosen.
Voldemort should have learned never count your chickens before their hatched and got the rest of the prophecy before jumping feet first lol :D

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 10:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
"I don't want Harry to die!" I am sure everyone has said that. I don't think he will die either the argument that Strider62442 is pretty strong and I like the different points made. Still there is still possible that he could and that what keeps driving us mad!!
But, I think the canon supports that he won't die for the many reasons stated above.

ComicBookWorm May 6th, 2007 5:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well for one, Jo wouldn't have needed to break Harry and Ginny up. If he was going to die heroically, they could have stayed together since there wouldn't be a relationship after the series ended, so why not let them have a little happiness first. Jo broke them up to make their reunion all the sweeter at the end.

spark0001 May 6th, 2007 7:00 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm going to take a slightly different (a slightly more pragmatic and -forgive me- cynical) view of things.

IF (and only if) Harry doesn't suceed, the book will feel highly anticlimactic and be a poor end to the series - and I'm sure everyone agrees that this won't happen. If he dies however, then there is a huge risk of doing the exact same thing.

Big_Bubotuber May 6th, 2007 10:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
HARRY WILL NOT DIE IN DEATHLY HALLOWS.
I refuse for him to die (although I don't exactly have any say in this lol).
But, really, Jo loves him so much, after all, she knows him most out of all of us (since she created him), and in this way, one could even say that she is his real mother. (Well not really, but in context to the entire series as a whole and Jo herself, it kinda works.) Now having said that, WHAT KIND OF MOM KILLS HER OWN SON?! Well, I mean, besides the duranged, freakish, and phsychotic mothers in the world who actually HAVE killed their children, but I highly highly HIGHLY doubt that Jo would ever be in this category, since se all know that she loves her children (her actual children) so much.

And I know after I post this you guys are gonna be like, "well she killed off a lot of other people too, and if you say that Harry is like her other son since she ultimately created him, WHAT ABOUT DUMBLEDORE? (and all the other good characters we've lost on the way..) SHE CREATED THEM TOO! So are they her "kids" too?"

Well, I really don't have an answer for you guys. But, I'm sure you understand me if I say that her relationship with Harry may be on a rather higher, more intimate scale than other characters. Afterall, Jo writes, mainly in the eyes of Harry. Well except for when we see flashes of the muggle prime minisrty or the Riddle House, or Voldemort himself, but I think you guys know what I mean.

If Harry does die though... I'm going emo. ;)

LoveWeasleys May 6th, 2007 11:11 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Is there a possibity Harry will die? Yes

Will he die in DH? No

I mean what would be the point of his mother's sacrifice if he was just going to die 17 years later, by the hands of the person that killed his parents?

swimmers_order May 7th, 2007 3:44 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I agree...it would just be too sad for Harry to die and it would completely defeate the purpose of Lily's sacrfice. I really wish no one else could die but seeing as jo has already said three main characters are going to die then...let the tears flow.

PunkRockGirli May 7th, 2007 4:02 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Question: Does this thread also apply to the possibility that we will see Harry fullfil his destiny and destroy Lord Voldy and his followers and then go on to the epilogue where he will die of old age after living a happy life with Ginny, Ron, and Hermione in a Voldy free world? Or is it mostly for the gruesome plots against his life where he will be killed or die in the attempt to rid the world of evil? I have always been confused about this which is why I am asking.

LoveWeasleys May 7th, 2007 4:10 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PunkRockGirli (Post 4498720)
Question: Does this thread also apply to the possibility that we will see Harry fullfil his destiny and destroy Lord Voldy and his followers and then go on to the epilogue where he will die of old age after living a happy life with Ginny, Ron, and Hermione in a Voldy free world? Or is it mostly for the gruesome plots against his life where he will be killed or die in the attempt to rid the world of evil? I have always been confused about this which is why I am asking.

I am pretty sure that it is safe to say that... I posted something like that awhile back and no one mentioned anything to me about it. And, I do agree it is possible we could see his death in the Epilouge after a long and happy life :). If he has to die, this how I hope we see it! :)

PunkRockGirli May 7th, 2007 4:15 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4498727)
I am pretty sure that it is safe to say that... I posted something like that awhile back and no one mentioned anything to me about it. And, I do agree it is possible we could see his death in the Epilouge after a long and happy life :). If he has to die, this how I hope we see it! :)



I agree....its just it is very hard to know what to say about a theory like this when, like one some threads, posters already have a very biased opinion and have certain topics that they like to go back and forth on- and seeing as I haven't been around as much as I normaly would have been jumping in and argueing that Harry will live might not be popular on a Will Harry die thread--and therefore I am just checking to see what the arguement will be before I jump in over my head.

gertiekeddle May 7th, 2007 7:03 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
The thread is for speculating whether he will die in Deathly Hallows or not. Both opinions are welcome. :)

winkysmajic May 7th, 2007 9:44 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It is my sincerest hope that Harry will not be killed, however this is no longer just "a child's book". As many adults are reading these and becoming HP obsessive fans just like all the kids, myself included. JKR has said that the characters will continue to die because this is not a fairytale, but so far we have seen a long line of the people who are closest to Harry tend to die and I think that we will keep going on this path. Afterall it was Dumby who continued to say there are far worse things than death, and what could be worse than every soul that you cherish dying around you while you are left alive. The sole surviver. Harry most likely will live but I fear that if indeed Harry was the one who got the reprieve from death then the 2 who now will die in his place would be two of three people he is closest to: GW, HG, RW. I do not believe JKR will kill off Harry, but then again I am hoping Dumby is still alive somehow. Afterall he only drank poison, was shot by a killing curse, flew off the astronomy tower, and was goodness how old. He could survive right?

inkling7 May 7th, 2007 9:58 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No Jo said Albus was definitely dead but whether or not Harry survives and who else survives with him is debatable.
If he survives and Ginny does too (also Ron and Hermione) he will be happy but if he dies he will be with his parents, Sirius and Albus and he will be happy too so it is a win-win situation. However if he survives and Ginny (and Ron and/or Hermione) don't then that would be pretty tragic and cruel.

anabel May 7th, 2007 10:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by winkysmajic (Post 4498971)
It is my sincerest hope that Harry will not be killed, however this is no longer just "a child's book".

It's certainly not "just" a children's book, but the young readership is very important to Jo, as we saw at the Edinburgh Castle event two years ago. While the books are fascinating to all age groups, I don't believe Jo will let down her younger fans in favour of a "dark" ending.

harrypotterr May 7th, 2007 11:21 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well Voldemort is a lot more powerful than Harry, so if it were a one on one duel, then no doubt Harry would lose.
We expierienced how weak he was at the end of HBP when Harry was attacking Snape, who was easily blocking off Harry's curses, not even returning any spells of his own.
Voldemort is stronger than Snape and easily could take on Harry.

I think that either Ron and/or Hermione will die or Harry will die.
The only way Harry could live and Voldemort die is out of luck, or getting Voldy off gaurd.

inkling7 May 7th, 2007 11:29 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Vodlemort's cockiness and the fact he doesn't trust anyone or have anyone who LOVES him could be a factor. He has followers who aren't all there in the head and who follow him either out of fear or greed for some of the power that Voldemort gives them - not complete and utter power that he wants but power as his followers.
Voldemort knows not LOVE and that could be his downfall.

But you are right about the young readership and when you have 7 and 8 year old children reading the books it might be a bit rough to kill off all the important heroes and leave the readers without any hope of happiness at all. We have to give the young people of this world something to hope for and Harry Potter and his closest friends are that hope in fiction anyway. I think the young readers have seen enough of their favourite characters carking it (Sirius, Albus) and the probablility of others they love dying will be hard to bear for those so young.

AL_Patterson May 7th, 2007 2:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well, It'll have been a good ride.

LoveWeasleys May 7th, 2007 3:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harrypotterr (Post 4499059)
Well Voldemort is a lot more powerful than Harry, so if it were a one on one duel, then no doubt Harry would lose.
We expierienced how weak he was at the end of HBP when Harry was attacking Snape, who was easily blocking off Harry's curses, not even returning any spells of his own.
Voldemort is stronger than Snape and easily could take on Harry.

Remember though about DD saying how, In choosing to fullfill the prophsey LV ended up making Harry his equal...check out "The Harry and Voledmort Bond' thread. It is pretty good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4498985)
No Jo said Albus was definitely dead but whether or not Harry survives and who else survives with him is debatable.
If he survives and Ginny does too (also Ron and Hermione) he will be happy but if he dies he will be with his parents, Sirius and Albus and he will be happy too so it is a win-win situation. However if he survives and Ginny (and Ron and/or Hermione) don't then that would be pretty tragic and cruel.

Tragic indeed

Photon May 9th, 2007 2:35 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_Bubotuber (Post 4498192)
HARRY WILL NOT DIE IN DEATHLY HALLOWS.
I refuse for him to die (although I don't exactly have any say in this lol).
But, really, Jo loves him so much, after all, she knows him most out of all of us (since she created him), and in this way, one could even say that she is his real mother.
And I know after I post this you guys are gonna be like, "well she killed off a lot of other people too, and if you say that Harry is like her other son since she ultimately created him, WHAT ABOUT DUMBLEDORE? (and all the other good characters we've lost on the way..) SHE CREATED THEM TOO! So are they her "kids" too?"

I agree with you but for another reason. I don't have the exact quote, but. Trelewany(sp) said that One will die so the other may live. In OOTP we found this out, so simply stating this one line answers a few questions. Harry or LV will die so the other can live. Harry, since coming into the wizarding world has been obcessed with finding LV and vice versa. So, I think that LV will die and Harry will live happily as DADA teacher with wife Ginny.

BurrowGhoul May 9th, 2007 3:18 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Photon (Post 4502179)
I agree with you but for another reason. I don't have the exact quote, but. Trelewany(sp) said that One will die so the other may live. In OOTP we found this out, so simply stating this one line answers a few questions. Harry or LV will die so the other can live. Harry, since coming into the wizarding world has been obcessed with finding LV and vice versa. So, I think that LV will die and Harry will live happily as DADA teacher with wife Ginny.

I think JKR nixed the idea of Harry being a Hogwarts teacher. It's too bad, really, because it is the perfect spot for him!

LoveWeasleys May 9th, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I JUST WANT HARRY TO LIVE! I understand that it isn't a fairytale and we are dealing with real evil, I just hope that his death is just media hype and Jo lets him live!
Besides I still don't get what the point of his parent's sacrifice would be then!

lindaluna May 10th, 2007 7:36 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Me too, I so totally want Harry to live - but I have a bad feeling, what with:
  • no more books
  • so many of Harry's loved ones being on the other side
  • Ginny having a solid backup boyfriend in Neville
  • JKR's "grief" at ending the series

On the other hand - would it promote youth suicide?

anabel May 10th, 2007 10:23 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4502275)
I understand that it isn't a fairytale and we are dealing with real evil,

It is a book though. It's not real.


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