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-   -   What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101919)

PureBloodGirl June 4th, 2008 3:29 am

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Everything! My grandmother who has never read the books, but has watched all the movies has been asking me to explain basicly every little detail to the movies AND she even asked me to spoil the other two books for her. Like who ends up marring who, who dies in the end, and who the half-blood prince is. It is very frusterating, but I tell her all of it.

wickedwickedboy June 15th, 2008 12:12 am

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Occassionally I will say to someone that a book is distinct - I actually do this with many adapations, not just Potter. But it is of little importance to the other person generally because they were only peripherally interested in the genre in the first place which is why they did not read the book :lol:. That is my experience anyway.

amandaevans June 17th, 2008 3:06 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
I tell them that the movies suck (that means I'm lying) and that they don't use the funniest things. :p

KDOG June 27th, 2008 1:53 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
After GoF, I had to tell my brother "thats not close to what the books are like" again and again because he was so confused about the movie.

Luka13 June 27th, 2008 2:19 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
I told my mom after watching the fifth movie, 'They've cut out the bests parts of the book from this movie! It's almost like cutting out half a pie, and the part the you cut out was the best!' :lol:

And then after I read the seventh book, she asked me to spoil it for her because she says that she will, 'Never read the books anyway!' But all I told her was that Harry may or may not live if you read the book. :D

Bl00dyChAoS16 June 27th, 2008 3:14 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KDOG (Post 5070051)
After GoF, I had to tell my brother "thats not close to what the books are like" again and again because he was so confused about the movie.

Thats good :D

I had to explain ALOT in PoA and OotP. GoF was self explanitory as it just cut things unneccasary for the film.

(But as I HAVE said, when I remake the HP films, I will have the book on screen)

yoshi2542 June 27th, 2008 3:55 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl00dyChAoS16 (Post 5070099)
(But as I HAVE said, when I remake the HP films, I will have the book on screen)

You'd best be prepared for scathing reviews and lukewarm audience response then. Warner Brothers tried that with the first two movies, and almost threw the franchise down the toilet. It took a massive rethink and a complete change in attitude to get the series back on track. There's a reason Chris Columbus has nothing to do with these movies any more.

Anyway, on topic, I had to explain why Voldemort couldn't just come and get the prophecy himself. My dad said that if a snake could seemingly open a door and enter a massive room guarded by one man, why on earth couldn't Voldemort? In the end I conceded that it was just a bit of a plot hole, in the book and the movie. I find it hard to believe Voldemort coudn't have grabbed it and left undetected.

MasterOfDeath June 27th, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Actually it's not a plot hole. In the book, Voldemort is trying to keep his return a secret (something that is glossed over in the movie) and to enter the Ministry would be to risk revealing himself at last. It's not that Voldemort couldn't penetrate the defenses of the Ministry, it's just that if he did, he would have revealed himself to the wizarding world at last.

The reason why the first two films weren't that good was the style and the editing/pacing of the movie. It's not because Columbus kept all of the information from the book (he didn't really keep EVERYTHING btw), it's just the way the film is cut together and filmed.

I believe you could have a film in the style and feeling of POA but with more character development and information from the book.

I would want a blend of the two.

yoshi2542 June 27th, 2008 4:12 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath (Post 5070135)
Actually it's not a plot hole. In the book, Voldemrot is trying to keep his return a secret (something that is glossed over in the movie) and to enter the Ministry would be to risk revealing himself at last. It's not that Voldemort couldn't penetrate the defenses of the Ministry, it's just that if he did, he would have revealed himself to the wizarding world at last.

But if a bunch of kids can enter the DoM and the Ministry doesn't find out for some time, why couldn't Voldemort? What I'm saying is that there is never a good reason given for why Voldemort couldn't have got the prophecy. It seems pathetically easy, especially for him. Surely all Voldemort needs to do is make himself invisible, apparate in to the DoM, then apparate out again. It would take mere moments.

I'd agree to an extent that the style of the first two, in cinematic terms, was a big reason for their failure. But they were also too long and full of pointless scenes IMO, as well as containing some very hammy acting. The humor was basic and must have made the movie dreadfully dull for adults. It has absolutely no wit at all. I'd argue that POA had stronger character development than any of the other movies, I certainly would not say that was a strength of the first two movies. In my eyes, longer, more drawn out scenes with a lot of exposition does not equal character development.

MasterOfDeath June 27th, 2008 4:15 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi2542 (Post 5070136)
But if a bunch of kids can enter the DoM and the Ministry doesn't find out for some time, why couldn't Voldemort? What I'm saying is that there is never a good reason given for why Voldemort couldn't have got the prophecy. It seems pathetically easy, especially for him. Surely all Voldemort needs to do is make himself invisible, apparate in to the DoM, then apparate out again. It would take mere moments.

I'm sure there was some kind of spell or charm that would trigger off if Voldemort stepped into the Ministry. Notice how the moment Voldemort enters the Ministry later on, the Aurors are on their way? I know this is not the case in the book because the Centuar statue calls the Minister but in the movie, this could be the case.

Besides, Voldemort could have very well have done that but why risk it when he could use Harry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi2542 (Post 5070136)
But if a bunch of kids can enter the DoM and the Ministry doesn't find out for some time, why couldn't Voldemort? What I'm saying is that there is never a good reason given for why Voldemort couldn't have got the prophecy. It seems pathetically easy, especially for him. Surely all Voldemort needs to do is make himself invisible, apparate in to the DoM, then apparate out again. It would take mere moments.

I'd agree to an extent that the style of the first two, in cinematic terms, was a big reason for their failure. But they were also too long and full of pointless scenes IMO, as well as containing some very hammy acting. The humor was basic and must have made the movie dreadfully dull for adults. It has absolutely no wit at all. I'd argue that POA had stronger character development than any of the other movies, I certainly would not say that was a strength of the first two movies. In my eyes, longer, more drawn out scenes with a lot of exposition does not equal character development.

Nor in my eyes. I think you could attribute the blandness of these scenes to the actors. The trio were quite young at the time. I never said endless scenes of exposition equals character development but what is wrong with a little exposition? No movie wants it but it is a necessary evil sometimes. A skilled directer can get out exposition in an entertaining, cinematic and interesting manner imo. Columbus just had the actors spurt it out.

yoshi2542 June 27th, 2008 4:36 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath (Post 5070139)
I'm sure there was some kind of spell or charm that would trigger off if Voldemort stepped into the Ministry. Notice how the moment Voldemort enters the Ministry later on, the Aurors are on their way? I know this is not the case in the book because the Centuar statue calls the Minister but in the movie, this could be the case.

Besides, Voldemort could have very well have done that but why risk it when he could use Harry?

OK, I don't remember that bit about the statue, so I stand corrected, but I assumed Dumbledore alerted the Aurors. Anyway, I think we both agree that the movie was very woolly in it's handling of the prophecy and the DoM.


Quote:

Nor in my eyes. I think you could attribute the blandness of these scenes to the actors. The trio were quite young at the time. I never said endless scenes of exposition equals character development but what is wrong with a little exposition? No movie wants it but it is a necessary evil sometimes. A skilled directer can get out exposition in an entertaining manner imo. Columbus just had the actors spurt it out.
True the trio were young, but the adults erred into cheese fairly often as well. Regarding exposition, I would agree that it is a necessary evil. It's still evil, though. The less of it, the better. Show don't tell!

MasterOfDeath June 27th, 2008 4:41 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi2542 (Post 5070152)
OK, I don't remember that bit about the statue, so I stand corrected, but I assumed Dumbledore alerted the Aurors. Anyway, I think we both agree that the movie was very woolly in it's handling of the prophecy and the DoM.




True the trio were young, but the adults erred into cheese fairly often as well. Regarding exposition, I would agree that it is a necessary evil. It's still evil, though. The less of it, the better.

Yeah, I see what you mean. The acting from all of the actors wasn't the best in that first movie. I guess you could say it was Columbus's fault for not directing his actors sufficiently. Alan Rickman was pretty good though as always.

It depends on what exposition we are talking about. I'm a lover of fleshing out the world. When you have a fantasy film, learning more and more about the world is always a major part of a first movie.

I think where we differ, Yoshi, is that you think exposition that doesn't directly tie into the overall plot is bad absolutely; while I believe it depends on the manner in which it is expressed and the direction.

Obi Wan talking about the Clone Wars in the original Star Wars film for example. Quite useless for the overall plot of the film but it just opened up the universe of the film AND provided some character pathos for Obi Wan. This exposition could have been very bland and boring but the way Alec Guinness played it was pitch perfect and very interesting.

I agree for the most part with 'show, don't tell' but sometimes what you don't see is far more suggestive and interesting than what you do see. It all depends on the performance of the actor and the direction, editing of the scene.

yoshi2542 June 27th, 2008 4:48 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfDeath (Post 5070154)
Yeah, I see what you mean. The acting from all of the actors wasn't the best in that first movie. I guess you could say it was Columbus's fault for not directing his actors sufficiently. Alan Rickman was pretty good though as always.

It depends on what exposition we are talking about. I'm a lover of fleshing out the world. When you have a fantasy film, learning more and more about the world is always a major part of a first movie.

I think where we differ, Yoshi, is that you think exposition that doesn't directly tie into the overall plot is bad absolutely; while I believe it depends on the manner in which it is expressed and the direction.

Obi Wan talking about the Clone Wars in the original Star Wars film for example. Quite useless for the film but it just opened up the universe of the film AND provided some character pathos for Obi Wan. This exposition could have been very bland and boring but the way Alec Guinness played it was pitch perfect and very interesting.

I'm by no means against fleshing out the world. I'd rather that be done without people standing around telling me about it. I'm fine with background detail, in terms of set design and in terms of the activity we see in shot, but I'm not a fan of dialog that serves no purpose other than to tell me about the world. The Obi-Wan line is good exposition, it's short, and it sets up some of the alluring reputation of the Jedi Order, something that had to be set-up in order for Luke to want to go with Obi-Wan later. Bad exposition would be if he had started talking about his adventures on the Droid Command Ship with Qui-Gon Jinn or something.

I agree with you that exposition can work, it can be something that fleshes out the world or explains a plot point without being heavy-handed and lazy, but it's hard to do. As a general rule, I think 'show don't tell' is the way to go in most situations.

MasterOfDeath June 27th, 2008 5:01 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi2542 (Post 5070159)
I'm by no means against fleshing out the world. I'd rather that be done without people standing around telling me about it. I'm fine with background detail, in terms of set design and in terms of the activity we see in shot, but I'm not a fan of dialog that serves no purpose other than to tell me about the world. The Obi-Wan line is good exposition, it's short, and it sets up some of the alluring reputation of the Jedi Order, something that had to be set-up in order for Luke to want to go with Obi-Wan later. Bad exposition would be if he had started talking about his adventures on the Droid Command Ship with Qui-Gon Jinn or something.

I agree with you that exposition can work, it can be something that fleshes out the world or explains a plot point without being heavy-handed and lazy, but it's hard to do. As a general rule, I think 'show don't tell' is the way to go in most situations.

I think we agree for the most part on this. It's quite telling that we both have slightly different conception of how we want these movies to capture the books but yet we are united in our dislike of OOTP. :lol: Maybe we are more similar than we think. Sometimes terms mix us up.

Overall, I don't mind a three hour movie as long as the editing and the pacing makes it feel shorter and you enjoy every minute of it. I understand a film has to tell a story but the story to me is the brain, while the character development is the heart, the plot is the bones, the exposition and fleshing out of the world is the flesh and the emotion is the blood.

I may be asking to much but I prefer the full animal of a film instead of sacrificing story for style or character development for a simpler narrative or something

My family have become fans of the movies alone and I am constantly answering their questions about certain things in the movie that are not explained.

I really want the films to stand alone. I hate having to explain things from the book for them to fully understand the movie. I'm not a purist, I just want the movies to be as complex and literate as the books and be able to stand alone without having to consult the books to understand something.

OOTP is most guilty of this.

lil_snuffles June 27th, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
After OOTP I had to explain to my mom the Prophecy. I actually showed her what the prophecy says. I didn't know it all by heart so I looked for it in the book and showed it to her. I also explained how Neville could have been the boy-who-lived. I alos had to explain why Harry has to go to the Dursley's every summer.

MasterOfDeath June 27th, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lil_snuffles (Post 5070182)
After OOTP I had to explain to my mom the Prophecy. I actually showed her what the prophecy says. I didn't know it all by heart so I looked for it in the book and showed it to her. I also explained how Neville could have been the boy-who-lived. I alos had to explain why Harry has to go to the Dursley's every summer.

Definitely, me too. My mom is always asking why Harry has to keep going back to the Dursleys.

Yesterday she asked me if Harry inherited Sirius's house now that he is dead. I was shocked she thought of that! I hope they keep Sirius's will in HBP but also explain why Harry cannot live there yet I.E explain the magic of the blood bond.

Bl00dyChAoS16 June 27th, 2008 8:04 pm

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yoshi2542 (Post 5070128)
You'd best be prepared for scathing reviews and lukewarm audience response then. Warner Brothers tried that with the first two movies, and almost threw the franchise down the toilet. It took a massive rethink and a complete change in attitude to get the series back on track. There's a reason Chris Columbus has nothing to do with these movies any more.

Anyway, on topic, I had to explain why Voldemort couldn't just come and get the prophecy himself. My dad said that if a snake could seemingly open a door and enter a massive room guarded by one man, why on earth couldn't Voldemort? In the end I conceded that it was just a bit of a plot hole, in the book and the movie. I find it hard to believe Voldemort coudn't have grabbed it and left undetected.

Chris Columbus is a producer. He has been ever since number 1, for numbers 1 and 2 he was a direcor and a producer, there are and ca be more than one or two produvers. And Id arguee the PoA had character development, but not as in the book. The movie and book, as well as OotP was not the same. GoF I can arguee was really good. It had the basics of the book. But, yet, the firsr two were basicly perfect. The acting was so so, but give them credit, they are basicly new to acting in a major motion picture and you cant expect 11, 12, and 13 year olds to act the way 40 year olds do. :tu:

And if I were the screenwritter, I WOULD have added some extra jokes, but I liked them because you didnt NEED to read the books and see the third one, you should have saw the first two movies and then read PoA and saw that movie.

Anyway, yea, OotP and PoA had much cut out. Didn't it cut out the most important line? And they didn't really make an effort to saw that Neville could have been the choosen one. I was annoyed with that....

greeneyedfairy June 28th, 2008 2:16 am

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
For the first two films I really didn't have to explain anything but when The Prisoner of Askaban came I couldn't enjoy the movie as much as I would have liked with so many questions my sisters had. Like What are those black cloaked things called and what do they do? Who was the rat? Then in GOF where did the other kids from the other schools come from? Who was the guy with the wierd eye? Who was the guy that was pretending to be the guy with the wierd eyes? Was that slimmy baby supose to be Voldermort?..and well you get the point there are too many things that you won't know when you see the movie unless you have read the books. So people READ THE BOOKS! :lol:

goldensphinx July 8th, 2008 3:07 am

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
My mum always mistakens the characters and confuses the books its sort of annoying but she's a muggle; what can you do?
love you mum.

betSytrOtwOod July 8th, 2008 4:00 am

Re: What do you have to explain to your friends and family who only see the movies?
 
Of my friends, the ones who watch the movies with me have either read the books and already understand, or they don't care. My mom doesn't ask questions....I think she basically gets it, I don't think my dad bothers to understand...he watches for the action. I used to see the movies with my aunt and uncle and when we got out of the movie I would have to explain like everything to them! Good thing I didn't see OotP or I'd have a lot to explain.


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