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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

hagrids_wench March 1st, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
[quote=sparkly;4372470]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasblack (Post 4372429)

The hero doesn't die in the Lord of the Rings. Frodo left Middle-earth but he did not die.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - Aslan is not really the hero - the children are the heroes. Aslan is intended to be a Christ-like figure. Harry Potter doesn't have a similar character.

In Little Women, the hero is not Beth, it's Jo.

Never read Charlotte's Web.

None of the heroes die in LOTR. Or rather they only die of old age if you read the appendices. Gandalf falls in Moria and returns so for awhile you are definitely bumming. Boromir was to belated a Hero in my opinion.

I always thought of Wilbur as the Hero in Charlotte's Web so maybe that is just at matter of personal leanings.

Dicken's Little Nell dies in the Old Curiosity Shop. And that was considered, at least the shorter version, a young person's book. It was a very maudlin death and I chuckled through most of it. And I love Dickens.

The Bridge to Terabithia

The original Little Red Riding Hood and most other faerie stories originally written for adults and then sanitized for children

Lord of the Flies but I don't think Piggy was a hero...well maybe he was, never made up my mind about that.

I really cannot think of many "kid" type books in this genre that do away with the Hero in the end.

I am just going keep chanting Harry Lives! Harry Lives! Harry Lives!

Spritey March 1st, 2007 5:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagrids_wench (Post 4371637)
I think war is, to them, something on their Play Station II, a movie, or television news (and that often looks like a PSII game too). I know that my eight year old grandson has not attained the concept that you seem to be alluding to. And I know he would not understand why Harry Potter "The Good Guy" lost and Voldemort "The Bad Guy" walked away.

But I don't think anyone is suggesting that Voldemort would walk away. I think most people who think that Harry will die (that I've spoken to, at least) tend to think that he'll die taking Voldemort down, as opposed to dying and leaving the world to a reign of evil omg ^_^ I think it's clear that JKR doesn't think the Prophecy is guiding things by itself - it seems that it's meant to be guiding Voldemort and Harry instead, in that Voldemort chose to follow the Prophecy, making it true. So I still think this leaves some wiggle room for other endings.

Anyway, I pretty much think that Harry will die and come back, but I won't go over it again since this thread makes me feel like an echo... :blush:

hagrids_wench March 1st, 2007 5:24 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4372534)
I think it's clear that JKR doesn't think the Prophecy is guiding things by itself - it seems that it's meant to be guiding Voldemort and Harry instead, in that Voldemort chose to follow the Prophecy, making it true. So I still think this leaves some wiggle room for other endings.

So what your indicating is that, on some level, the prophecy is not a prophecy as we are used to thinking about them,e.g. Bible or Nostradamus but more of a self fulfilling prophecy if one of the players decide to take it seriously. In this case Voldemort?

I only ask because that line of thought seems to remove it as a prophecy and make it something else entirely.

As far as Harry dying/coming back...that I could live with. But JKR hasn't been particularly kind about that as yet so I am afraid I would be setting myself up for a fall.

Spritey March 1st, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagrids_wench (Post 4372543)
So what your indicating is that, on some level, the prophecy is not a prophecy as we are used to thinking about them,e.g. Bible or Nostradamus but more of a self fulfilling prophecy if one of the players decide to take it seriously. In this case Voldemort?

I only ask because that line of thought seems to remove it as a prophecy and make it something else entirely.

As far as Harry dying/coming back...that I could live with. But JKR hasn't been particularly kind about that as yet so I am afraid I would be setting myself up for a fall.

Well, I'm specifically remembering something Jo said about MacBeth (ZOMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! *FLAIL* :))

Quote:

ES: I remember thinking when I read “Order of the Phoenix,” what would happen if Harry and Voldemort just decided to —

JKR: Shake hands, and walk away? We'll agree to disagree!

[Laughter.]

ES: What if he never heard the prophecy?

JKR: And that's it, isn't it. As I said, that's what I posted on my site -

ES: I'm glad you put that up.

JKR: It's the “Macbeth” idea. I absolutely adore “Macbeth.” It is possibly my favorite Shakespeare play. And that's the question isn't it? If Macbeth hadn't met the witches, would he have killed Duncan? Would any of it have happened? Is it fated or did he make it happen? I believe he made it happen.
From the Mugglenet and TLC 2005 interview.

hagrids_wench March 1st, 2007 7:24 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Spritey
(ZOMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! *FLAIL* :))
Quote:

JKR: It's the “Macbeth” idea. I absolutely adore “Macbeth.” It is possibly my favorite Shakespeare play. And that's the question isn't it? If Macbeth hadn't met the witches, would he have killed Duncan? Would any of it have happened? Is it fated or did he make it happen? I believe he made it happen.
So in other words the Prophecy is only as true or as apt to happen if someone believes that it will or should? Very interesting.

So in that sense it is self fulfilling. Almost as though ignorance truely is bliss. What you don't know cannot harm you. This theory has many corners and I love things with corners.

I guess I had better chant much louder. HARRY WILL NOT DIE! HARRY WILL NOT DIE! :lol:

mactabard_25 March 1st, 2007 8:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
[quote=sparkly;4372470]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasblack (Post 4372429)

The hero doesn't die in the Lord of the Rings. Frodo left Middle-earth but he did not die.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe - Aslan is not really the hero - the children are the heroes. Aslan is intended to be a Christ-like figure. Harry Potter doesn't have a similar character.

In Little Women, the hero is not Beth, it's Jo.

Never read Charlotte's Web.

Actually Frodo left Middle Earth for the equivelant of Heaven. So technically he passed on (although not physically dying).

I agree about Aslan not being the hero of Narnia but to a small child the lion Aslan is the bomb. He can walk, talk, and kick butt.

No clue about Little Women but you are probably right.

And yes Charlotte (the pigs saviour) does die.

Back to my point sorry... I could easily see Harry doing the same thing (as Frodo) but in a different way of course. He would die but not by a fatal blow or slowly over time from poison or wound. I also firmly disagree with him outright killing Voldy. So...I feel he will sacrifice himself to kill him. I will not go into details on my theory because it is lengthy, but i have posted it before.


Also as for it being a children's story... I agree and disagree. It started out as such, but has aged as the characters have. I remember reading and interview with JK where she said she wasn't really writing a children's story anymore and that really her story has always contained death and dispair.

SusanBones March 1st, 2007 8:40 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mactabard_25 (Post 4372834)
Also as for it being a children's story... I agree and disagree. It started out as such, but has aged as the characters have. I remember reading and interview with JK where she said she wasn't really writing a children's story anymore and that really her story has always contained death and dispair.

I still think it is aimed at the young reader, not children, but maybe older adolescents. JK Rowling uses cute little phrases to describe the "kissing" scenes, such as lip-wrestling, to lend a light comic relief to the very real fact that teenagers fall in love. Most of the Death Eaters activities occur in the background. We hear that Amelia Bones' murder was especially gruesome, but are not told of any detail. Even Cedric, the Riddles and Dumbledore do not exhibit signs that their deaths were horrible. This book is not going to stray too fair into themes that are difficult to justify. Voldemort dying makes sense and it is well-deserved. Harry death would not be well deserved. It would be unfair.

mactabard_25 March 1st, 2007 9:01 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SusanBones111 (Post 4372858)
Voldemort dying makes sense and it is well-deserved. Harry death would not be well deserved. It would be unfair.


Well I wasn't really saying Voldy wouldn't die, I just don't think Harry will outright kill him. I actually whole heartedly believe Voldy will die or fade from existence, I just think Harry will go with him. From interviews JK has gave she gives the impression (to me) that Harry will be a true hero, and a lot of times (not always) the hero dies to save everyone else...choosing between what is right and what is easy.

I disagree with the unfair comment though. I fail to see how Harry dying would be unfair to anyone. I'm sure some fans would be crushed just because he died but JK isn't trying to hurt or be unfair to anyone. I'm sure if she didn't kill Harry there would be fans out there that would react the same way. They would be just as dissapointed that he didn't die. You never know though, Harry might even be happy to die. He would get to see his parents, Sirius, and DD again.

Anywhoooo.... personally I hope he lives, but to me the way the story arc has gone I don't see him making it (I even support a lot of the theories that he will die because of the story arc). But I still hope he lives.

SusanBones March 1st, 2007 9:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mactabard_25 (Post 4372894)
I disagree with the unfair comment though. I fail to see how Harry dying would be unfair to anyone.

I just meant that it would seem unfair to Harry. He has had a pretty tough life. It would be nice if the poor kid got a break.

It has been nice chatting with you. It is entirely possible that Harry will die. I think we both agree that we don't want to see it happen.

mactabard_25 March 1st, 2007 9:56 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
true true... We will find out soon enough I suppose. It is fun to speculate though.

pensieve_master March 2nd, 2007 1:35 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nairobi_Dawn (Post 4371925)
I would LOVE to see him live, have a family with Ginny, do cool married couples friends things with Ron and Hermione

If Harry lives and goes on to be an auror, I hardly think his life will be boring. Just think of the endless storylines that could be created wither by JKR if she chose or by fanfic writers.

UndeadEmpire13 March 2nd, 2007 4:19 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling

I just finished reading this.
You think she intended for Harry to die?

hagrids_wench March 2nd, 2007 5:31 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling
I just read the same thing! But I think I took it out of context because of all the quotes I read previously. I just went back and looked at it again...and well now it sounds differently to me. I thought that it had probably already been mentioned here somewhere but there are just too many threads to go through even with search. So I am really glad you posted this. I hope someone with more upstairs than I have will comment on it. :)

YellowRose March 2nd, 2007 11:25 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No. It would be just too much of a downer. And what would be the point of all the suffering he has gone through just to die at the end?

sparkly March 2nd, 2007 3:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadEmpire13 (Post 4373496)
"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling

I just finished reading this.
You think she intended for Harry to die?

I doubt she's referring to Harry, Ron, Ginny or Hermione in that quote. JKR wrote the last chapter of book seven nearly fifteen years ago, and she has said it hasn't changed substantially. The quote above indicates that she's recently changed her mind about what will happen to three characters, but if the final chapter hasn't changed, she probably wasn't referencing Harry. If she had changed her mind about Harry, the last chapter would need substantial re-work.

iluvhp_765 March 2nd, 2007 4:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that Harry must die for the story to end. If he doesn't then as said before fan-fic writers will have a blast with it.

Harry's main purpose as a character is to prepare for Voldemort and eventually defeat him. His purpose as a character will be complete and the story will end with a boy who sacraficed his life for the sake of all wizard kind.

I absolutely despise that theory though!!

Lord_Kaine March 2nd, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

"One character got a reprieve, but I have to say two die that I didn't intend to die...A price has to be paid. We are dealing with pure evil...They go for the main characters... well, I do". -JK Rowling
As morbid as it sounds, I almost hope they will do in DH. Harry have lost his parents, Sirius and Dumbledore because they sacrificed themselves for him. And now he don't want anyone else to stand between him and LV. That's the reason why I think someone of the trio (and perhaps even Ginny, if she tags along) could die. Many disagrees with this, because it wouldn't serve any purpose, Harry has suffered enough. But as JKR said, they're dealing with pure evil. Pure evil don't let you get away just because you've suffered, and pure evil don't go for other people if you're the one in their way.

If DH will have the deaths of more "parental" figures, like Lupin, Hagrid, or maybe Grawp or those I refers to as "safety net sacrifices", I will be disappointed. We have seen enough of those sacrifices, at least so I think. The only surprise would be if the Weasley family was attacked, they're the number one family against Voldemort, with a close bond to Harry.

Also, why I think Harry will die, is because I don't think he and his friends are going to survive a possible clash with Voldemort, not everyone of them. And Harry has shown us, both in OotP and HBP, that he don't care if he dies, in OotP he wants to go with Sirius, although he lives on later. And in HBP, he shows us again that he is ready to die in the fight. Harry does not fear his own death, only the deaths of those around him. Now more than ever. That's the reason I think Harry might die, to save those he loves, like his protectors did for him. He would not accept another sacrifice for his sake.

And while Harry might survive, get a family and live happily ever after, I don't see that life for him either. He is the boy who lives, and he wants to kill Voldemort, and protect those he loves more than anything. Harry is a fighter, and with DD out of the way, Voldemort will fear noone, maybe come out in the open. Harry will not rest as long as there is evil, he has shown clearly that he opposes it in every form.

EWells2188 March 2nd, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think that "Mr Watson", a few posts up, makes a very good point. I don't want to believe it, but he is right about the fact that if Harry lives, people will want to know more about him, etc. and crazed fans will try to make more money off of "fake" Harry stories. If he dies, however, that will be that and his name will live on as a historical figure. I can almost envison Prof. Binns teaching future Hogwarts students about the great Harry Potter who gave his life and saved the world, not once, but twice. I even think that this may be what Harry would want (as well as he'd be reunited with his family, etc.) I reallllllly hope this will not happen, but it is extremely realistic.

calgary March 2nd, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hagrids_wench (Post 4373563)
I just read the same thing! But I think I took it out of context because of all the quotes I read previously. I just went back and looked at it again...and well now it sounds differently to me. I thought that it had probably already been mentioned here somewhere but there are just too many threads to go through even with search. So I am really glad you posted this. I hope someone with more upstairs than I have will comment on it. :)


That may well be, but the fate of the trio was decided long ago. If they died, it would take more then a minor rewrite. I think the recent statements were in regard to other characters going (such as Remus, Tonks, etc).

PhoenixFire_DA March 2nd, 2007 7:36 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I've been giving this some thought. I think I remember reading that someone once ask JKR the question of whether Ron will die and she responded, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!" or something like that. Now it seems to me she pretty much just said no way, I'd never kill Ron. Well if it's that important to keep Harry's best friend alive, then I'm thinking there's no chance Harry, himself, will be killed off.

Does anyone else remember seeing or hearing that quote? Cuz I can't find it anywhere right now!!

Ok I just found it!! Interview with Time in 2000. JKR said, "Mostly they are worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend."

This may have been specific to just one upcoming book at the time, but I'm hoping it applies to the overall series story arc!!


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