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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

harshil February 8th, 2007 1:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i think JKR has said that she has killed hay(just in pasing) so we have to just accpt the sad fact dats all

Daelin February 8th, 2007 3:31 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If there's anything about JKR about which I am sure, it is that she most definitely has not specifically confirmed Harry's death or survival!

Hermeneutic February 8th, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4338675)
If there's anything about JKR about which I am sure, it is that she most definitely has not specifically confirmed Harry's death or survival!

And besides, even if she had, she's switched around the life/death result of three characters already. Any old quotes would be rendered useless by this.

wobbleshanks February 8th, 2007 7:40 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sickoftv (Post 4337363)
Deep down, I want Harry to die. Not that I have anything against the guy, it just seems apropriate. However, there are two solid reasons he will not:

1) It would break Point of View atrociously. Any writer who has been through an entry level workshop or had fiction edited by a professional will know that breaking POV is discoraged unless done well and for a good reason. To KILL the point of view character of a seven book series is tantamount to heresy. Rowling writes in a heavily traditional way with out any traces of avant garde or experimentalism. She simply won't kill the POV character.

2) Quiddich. Yup... that sport. There IS a point to it. I have spent seven books trying to figure out why the flitwick Rowling felt a game as preposterous as Quiddich should serve as an important piece of the story. The entire game goes on as points are scored for as long as it takes to find the snitch. Then a seeker gets the snitch. Then that seeker's team wins. It seems pointless to have so many players simply as a distraction. Then I realized it's more than a bit of a metaphor. Its not just a ritualized form of struggle in the wizarding world, it is the entire plot. In the end, the teams do not matter. It is Harry and Voldemort - the two seekers - that matter. Only one of them can get the snitch. It seems that snitch is the ability to survive, whatever form Rowling chooses to give it.


Wow! Nice one about the Quiddich. Lovely analogy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermeneutic (Post 4338937)
And besides, even if she had, she's switched around the life/death result of three characters already. Any old quotes would be rendered useless by this.

Excellent point!

Chris February 8th, 2007 7:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
That is a nice quidditch analogy.

Never having been to writers workshops, I can't speak about the POV myself. But it would be a letdown to many readers for HP to die. Unless it's some heroic death.

That being said...I'm steeling myself for harry to go :(. My official prediction is he lives, but that's the heart talking :).

Official prediction: Harry lives, becomes Britain's seeker, and faces Krum for the Quidditch World Cup, where the two of them have a spirited battle before Krum catches the snitch when Britain is up 150 points, resulting in an unprecedented draw and magical harmony everywhere.

mactabard_25 February 8th, 2007 11:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chparadise (Post 4338975)
That is a nice quidditch analogy.

Never having been to writers workshops, I can't speak about the POV myself. But it would be a letdown to many readers for HP to die. Unless it's some heroic death.

That being said...I'm steeling myself for harry to go :(. My official prediction is he lives, but that's the heart talking :).

Official prediction: Harry lives, becomes Britain's seeker, and faces Krum for the Quidditch World Cup, where the two of them have a spirited battle before Krum catches the snitch when Britain is up 150 points, resulting in an unprecedented draw and magical harmony everywhere.

I'm a firm believer that Harry will die (speculation of course) but if he did live I could see something like that in the epiloque. Maybe not with Vic Krum, but definately Harry playing Quidditch for a pro team as a seeker. That would make him happiest I think, other than Ginny of course. Good survival scenario.

fang25 February 8th, 2007 11:45 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Despite claims of satanic plots, Harry Potter has a lot of religious undertones so i could see Harry dying in a christ-like sacrifice for wizard kind. THat being said, i don't think it will happen

The prophesy seems to indicate that ONE will die and i highly doubt JKR would let evil win...

Smarties February 9th, 2007 11:53 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
There's no way Harry will die... I hope!

What a waste of a life it would be if he did die. Spending 10 years with the Dursley's... never having a proper family... spending his Hogwarts years in danger of being killed...

I just don't think JKR would do it. You must remember that she wrote the final chapter years ago, before she knew how big Harry Potter would be, and although in recent years she may have thought it would be best just to kill him off to get people off her back, she'd decided Harry's fate at the beginning.

Smarties http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...s/MYSMILIE.gif

Mad_Ravenclaw February 9th, 2007 12:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarties (Post 4340164)
There's no way Harry will die... I hope!

What a waste of a life it would be if he did die. Spending 10 years with the Dursley's... never having a proper family... spending his Hogwarts years in danger of being killed...

I just don't think JKR would do it. You must remember that she wrote the final chapter years ago, before she knew how big Harry Potter would be, and although in recent years she may have thought it would be best just to kill him off to get people off her back, she'd decided Harry's fate at the beginning.

Smarties http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...s/MYSMILIE.gif

I agree with you! I mean, the boy's never been happy for more than five minutes in a row in his entire life, and now he's facing the responsability of getting the world rid of Voldemort... and will probably succeed (can you objectively imagine the series ending with Voldemort's triumph????). So I know life is everything but fair, but he deserves to live. He deserves to live and to be happy.
Pleeeeeeaaaaase!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sickoftv (Post 4337363)
2) Quiddich. Yup... that sport. There IS a point to it. I have spent seven books trying to figure out why the flitwick Rowling felt a game as preposterous as Quiddich should serve as an important piece of the story. The entire game goes on as points are scored for as long as it takes to find the snitch. Then a seeker gets the snitch. Then that seeker's team wins. It seems pointless to have so many players simply as a distraction. Then I realized it's more than a bit of a metaphor. Its not just a ritualized form of struggle in the wizarding world, it is the entire plot. In the end, the teams do not matter. It is Harry and Voldemort - the two seekers - that matter. Only one of them can get the snitch. It seems that snitch is the ability to survive, whatever form Rowling chooses to give it.

Oh and nice one, but it's not necessarly the team that gets the snitch that wins... If the other team is ahead, pointwise, they still win. Cf the World Cup... Krum catches the snitch, but Ireland still wins.

Eliya February 9th, 2007 12:51 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think Harry will die. It's too simple or maybe too unconvenient end... Indeed, like someone said before, it's a children book so in this light, it would be too cruel for J.K.Rowling to 'kill' Harry.

prongs92 February 9th, 2007 1:28 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Eliya I think that harry will have to die. Even though that would easily finish the series which would suck!! But yeh I have my reasons why he would have to die. In the 5th book there is a part where trelawney make a prophecy about harry and voldemort at ther school. Its says something to the effect of neither one can live while the other does. So that means that harry will have destroy all the horcruxes and will have to kill himself and somebody else kill voldemort. the night that voldemort tried to kill harry he failed and put some of himself into harry giving him different qualities. which is apart of his soul. that is my view on the subject.
Prongs

Daelin February 9th, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I have said it before, and I will say it again:

It hardly makes sense for "The Boy Who Lived", to end up 'The Young Man Who Died Anyway'.

sparkly February 9th, 2007 5:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It does not appear from the way the sixth book ended that Harry will die. In HBP Harry was given a reason to live with his relationship with Ginny. Before he fell for Ginny, Harry was torn between the people he loved in his current life (Hermione and Ron and the rest of the Weasleys) and the people he lost (his parents and Sirius). With Ginny, Harry has someone he can build a life with after Voldermort and JKR has given him something to look forward to. Harry now has a reason to choose to live and stop looking over his shoulder to the people he has lost.

JKR has developed the Harry/Ginny relationship since the first book and by bringing them together briefly in HBP she clearly foreshadowed that Harry will survive Voldermort. To change that abruptly in the final book doesn't make sense from a literary perspective and isn't good writing technique. If JKR intended to kill Harry she would not have said that Ginny was his best source of comfort, nor would she have separated them at the end of HBP. Instead, she would have kept them together but demonstrated that their relationship couldn't survive Harry's hunt for the Horcruxes. Then the transition to Harry's death would flow more easily. The current situation where Harry has separated from Ginny to keep her safe indicates he wants to return to her, which means JKR intends for Harry to be looking beyond Voldermort.

Daelin February 9th, 2007 5:51 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Good post Sparkly, especially about Ginny's position viz a viz the end of HBP. We know from JKR's comments that she considers HPB and DH two halves of a whole story, and so Ginny's position is critical to the plot.

PhoenixFire_DA February 9th, 2007 6:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fang25 (Post 4339400)
Despite claims of satanic plots, Harry Potter has a lot of religious undertones so i could see Harry dying in a christ-like sacrifice for wizard kind. THat being said, i don't think it will happen

The prophesy seems to indicate that ONE will die and i highly doubt JKR would let evil win...

Well on the note of religious undertones I will say this:

I remember reading some comments from JKR once when she was responding to criticism from Christian groups. (I'm paraphrasing, of course) She basically said that no one had ever asked her if she was religious and that yes, she does believe in the Christian faith. In fact, she continued on to say that if anyone knew the true nature of her faith, that they'd probably know what was going to happen in the stories. Now maybe I'm reading too much into this but I kind of get the impression that Harry may have to sacrifice himself (or be willing to sacrifice himself) in kind of the same way that Jesus sacrificed himself to save mankind.

Don't get me wrong... I very much want Harry to live, to be together with Ginny and to be happy. I just can't help feeling that the last book will have a lot to do with sacrifice. Keep in mind, however, the story tells us Jesus was resurrected after 3 days. So maybe Harry could die and come back? Or perhaps Voldemort just has to think he's dead and it will give Harry the element of surprise? Hmm... I just thought of something. What if the "Deathly Hallows" is a place or a kind of magic where the line between live and death is blurred, allowing Harry to be killed but then come back stronger than ever?

Daelin February 9th, 2007 6:24 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well, you can only carry that so far.

I myself am a fundamentalist Christian, and I would be very surprised if Harry followed the same road Jesus took.

I could not see, for example, Harry coming back to life three days later, and sending out his friends to tell the world about the Gospel of Harry the Risen Potter.

:lol:

MHPFAN February 9th, 2007 6:38 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daelin (Post 4340556)
I myself am a fundamentalist Christian, and I would be very surprised if Harry followed the same road Jesus took.

I could not see, for example, Harry coming back to life three days later, and sending out his friends to tell the world about the Gospel of Harry the Risen Potter.

I just don't see this happening either. If he dies, I see him dying in battle against Voldemort while defeating him. I don't see the whole sacrifice thing as being a good enough ending in my opinion. Harry has already sacrificed so much (i.e. normal childhood) that to have him sacrifice his life is just not right in my honest opinion. Obiviously, it is possible, but I just can't come to grips, or even see the logic in that happening.

sparkly February 9th, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixFire_DA (Post 4340546)
Well on the note of religious undertones I will say this:

I remember reading some comments from JKR once when she was responding to criticism from Christian groups. (I'm paraphrasing, of course) She basically said that no one had ever asked her if she was religious and that yes, she does believe in the Christian faith. In fact, she continued on to say that if anyone knew the true nature of her faith, that they'd probably know what was going to happen in the stories. Now maybe I'm reading too much into this but I kind of get the impression that Harry may have to sacrifice himself (or be willing to sacrifice himself) in kind of the same way that Jesus sacrificed himself to save mankind.

Don't get me wrong... I very much want Harry to live, to be together with Ginny and to be happy. I just can't help feeling that the last book will have a lot to do with sacrifice. Keep in mind, however, the story tells us Jesus was resurrected after 3 days. So maybe Harry could die and come back? Or perhaps Voldemort just has to think he's dead and it will give Harry the element of surprise? Hmm... I just thought of something. What if the "Deathly Hallows" is a place or a kind of magic where the line between live and death is blurred, allowing Harry to be killed but then come back stronger than ever?


There's a lot of options in the story if you take the position that JKR believes in the same way as most Christian faiths. It doesn't necessarily follow that Harry has to sacrifice himself. She could mean that evil won't triumph over good, or that Harry won't become a murderer but Voldermort is still defeated.

JKR has never likened Harry to a Christ figure, so her comments about Christianity don't indicate that Harry will follow the same path. In fact, many Christian beliefs would take that as a heretical position since no one but Jesus is able to die and be resurrected.

PhoenixFire_DA February 9th, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Sorry don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to show Harry and Christ as equals. It's more the message behind it. That sometimes good must make the dearest sacrifice in order to defeat evil.

Daelin February 9th, 2007 6:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MHPFAN (Post 4340575)
I just don't see this happening either. If he dies, I see him dying in battle against Voldemort while defeating him. I don't see the whole sacrifice thing as being a good enough ending in my opinion. Harry has already sacrificed so much (i.e. normal childhood) that to have him sacrifice his life is just not right in my honest opinion. Obiviously, it is possible, but I just can't come to grips, or even see the logic in that happening.

I agree that JKR is under the weight of what I call 'Author's Morality'. She can throw in twists and curves, but in the end the story must end with Good winning over Evil, and commensurate rewards/penalties for the actors in the story. Harry getting to be with his family after dying, well, that just falls short.

Where I do see a 'Christian' theme in the 'Harry Potter' series, is the idea that almost everyone can be redeemed, that no matter what someone thinks, the power of Love can reach them. Love is a bit like water. Water seems like weak stuff. You can freeze it or boil it and it moves around so smoothly, yet given time it eats away at rock, destroying mountains and changing continents. Its force can move the planet; scientists now realize that the tides affect the Earth's rotation, for instance. So subtle forces can still be very, very powerful, and Love works like that.


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