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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

John the Boggart February 7th, 2007 4:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Am I the only one who doesn't think it's going to be as simple Harry living or dying?

Jo's recent and past messages, to me, make it fairly clear that she's had something quite clever planned out for some time. Perhaps, even, as far back as when she started this whole wonderful endeavour.

Let's do a little digging, shall we?

1)
Quote:

I always knew that Harry's story would end with the seventh book, but saying goodbye has been just as hard as I always knew it would be.
That's a strange way of phrasing something, especially for someone who chooses her words so carefully. Sure, it's ambiguous, but I'm trying to establish a context here.

2)
Quote:

If it comes as any consolation, I think that there will be plenty to continue arguing and speculating about, even after 'Deathly Hallows' comes out.
This to me indicates that she feels that she has created and ending that's either something ambiguous (which is highly unlikley, given her stated desire to cement her place in literary history) or something very clever that, while it likely wraps up that which requires wrapping may do so in such a way that will leave much open to interpretation.

Now, when viewing all of this in light of the over-arching story of "choices", the very-carefully-worded "Prophecy" and Harry's one ace-in-the-hole over Lord Voldything (his ability to love), this leads me to the conclusion that Jo will likely have Harry make a selfless act of sacrifice in order to end the Reign of HWMNBN... which may not have its denouement as something as simple as Harry and Voldymold living or dying.

Thematically, it makes sense, too, for it's not whether or not Harry actually survives that's important; no, it will be Harry making the conscious choice based on his capacity to love that will make or break the whole darn thing, IMHO.

DevilsSnare February 7th, 2007 4:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I tend to agree with most of the replies here where I think Harry will die and be reunited with Lily & James Potter (his parents), Sirius Black (his Godfather), and Albus Dumbledore (his mentor).

It'll be a bittersweet ending.

Dunedin February 7th, 2007 6:00 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I've always been of the opinion that Harry will die in a magical sense. He'll physically be alive but will be rendered a Muggle.

outsidessence February 7th, 2007 6:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It's just so difficult to predict what will happen. John the Boggart is probably correct in his assertion that theending will not be as simple as living or dying. It would be, in my opinion, fairly un-rowlingish for harry to vanquish voldie (or vica versa) andlive happily ever after. Although he certaintly deserves it, I can't see Harry having a life after Voldemort. He will have to go but I don't know if he will neccesarily die. Voldemort need not die either. On many occasions Dumbledore has asserted that there are things much worse ten death. Perhaps voldie will be forced to suffer for the pain he has caused? (of course one of them must die- my guess is Harry)

mactabard_25 February 7th, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John the Boggart (Post 4336138)
Am I the only one who doesn't think it's going to be as simple Harry living or dying?

Jo's recent and past messages, to me, make it fairly clear that she's had something quite clever planned out for some time. Perhaps, even, as far back as when she started this whole wonderful endeavour.

Let's do a little digging, shall we?

1)
That's a strange way of phrasing something, especially for someone who chooses her words so carefully. Sure, it's ambiguous, but I'm trying to establish a context here.

2)
This to me indicates that she feels that she has created and ending that's either something ambiguous (which is highly unlikley, given her stated desire to cement her place in literary history) or something very clever that, while it likely wraps up that which requires wrapping may do so in such a way that will leave much open to interpretation.

Now, when viewing all of this in light of the over-arching story of "choices", the very-carefully-worded "Prophecy" and Harry's one ace-in-the-hole over Lord Voldything (his ability to love), this leads me to the conclusion that Jo will likely have Harry make a selfless act of sacrifice in order to end the Reign of HWMNBN... which may not have its denouement as something as simple as Harry and Voldymold living or dying.

Thematically, it makes sense, too, for it's not whether or not Harry actually survives that's important; no, it will be Harry making the conscious choice based on his capacity to love that will make or break the whole darn thing, IMHO.

I will agree with you on this. I believe Harry will die. He almost has to. Not nessasarily due to the prophecy but just because the series (to me) has lead him to this critical point. He will have to choose (as DD so lovingly put it) between what is right and what is easy.

Hermeneutic February 7th, 2007 9:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunedin (Post 4336302)
I've always been of the opinion that Harry will die in a magical sense. He'll physically be alive but will be rendered a Muggle.

That would be interesting. Imagine if Harry's scar is not only the source of his Parseltongue ability, but also his magic, period?

Spritey February 7th, 2007 11:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kash (Post 4335907)
her exact words"I always knew that Harry's story would end with the seventh book, but saying goodbye has been just as hard as I always knew it would be."
harrys story...? its doesnt make sense.. see the sentence construction. she didnt say i always knew the series would end with the 7th book.. she is great at mincing words. she has killed him.

It does make sense. Harry's story is technically over - she will never write him again, so he's done as a character. His character arc thingy is finished.

mactabard_25 February 8th, 2007 1:36 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4336904)
It does make sense. Harry's story is technically over - she will never write him again, so he's done as a character. His character arc thingy is finished.


Yeah but one way (given that there are many) his story could come to an end would be through his death. That would definately put an end to his arc. There wouldn't be anything else to write. But I see a lot of peeps point. This could simply be the end of his story arc. Harry completed what he was ment to do. He can simply live out his life with/without Ginny and friends. No more adventures or battles. Just old man Potter, hopefully teaching, living out his old days like a normal wizard. Gosh... that sounds so dreadful. I think I really would rather see him die. It just seems he would be miserable living that kind of life. And JK would have to start another story arc if he was not to live this kind of life. Because if he was to have another adventure we would all of course want to know all about it. :drool:

lindaluna February 8th, 2007 1:43 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED THAT JKR IS "MOURNING" SO MUCH!

Where's the joy of victory, the relief of a battle won?

I think Harry bites the dust.

phoenix43 February 8th, 2007 1:54 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't think Harry will die. Just because "Harry's story is ending" doesn't equate with death. The story of Harry does end, with hopefully good and good choices triumphant over evil. The story then does end. It means this aspect of his life. When Voldemort is vanquished or dead depending on what happens, the story as we know it has ended. This could mean that Harry continues to live a life of a normal wizard, thus ending his story.

Daelin February 8th, 2007 1:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lindaluna (Post 4337178)
ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED THAT JKR IS "MOURNING" SO MUCH!

Where's the joy of victory, the relief of a battle won?

I think Harry bites the dust.

If so, why did her message also say she was "euphoric", and that the ending was "wonderful"?

Those words aren't funeral-talk, ya know?

MAGICicalMUggle February 8th, 2007 1:56 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
:no: I think Harry will die!...But in a very noble way like sacrificing himself for the love he has for his friends!...I also think that the best way to end the series is with a hero's death!...But after all harry has been through he deserves to live a happy life with his friends.... I'm still hopeing that Harry was the one who got the reprieve!:tu:

magicalmysteryg February 8th, 2007 2:25 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
The "harry's story" quote--i dont think this means his death. the books are about harry, they're called harry potter and the... It doesn't have to refer to his death. The books are harrys story.

mactabard_25 February 8th, 2007 2:43 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGICicalMUggle (Post 4337205)
:no: I think Harry will die!...But in a very noble way like sacrificing himself for the love he has for his friends!...I also think that the best way to end the series is with a hero's death!...But after all harry has been through he deserves to live a happy life with his friends.... I'm still hopeing that Harry was the one who got the reprieve!:tu:

Very agreeable. Even the part about the reprievel. I dont want to see Harry die. I just dont think the series could end properly with out it happening. Unless JK really pulls out all the stops.

tofo579 February 8th, 2007 2:47 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
jkr adores the classics...and in the classics, the hero never dies.

magicalmysteryg February 8th, 2007 2:58 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I dont know what classics you're talking about, but what about the many many tragedies? Shakespeare...greek tragedies...there are many stories that end with the hero's death. classic tragedies.

mactabard_25 February 8th, 2007 3:21 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
There is great wisdom in Magicalmysteryg's words.

sickoftv February 8th, 2007 3:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Deep down, I want Harry to die. Not that I have anything against the guy, it just seems apropriate. However, there are two solid reasons he will not:

1) It would break Point of View atrociously. Any writer who has been through an entry level workshop or had fiction edited by a professional will know that breaking POV is discoraged unless done well and for a good reason. To KILL the point of view character of a seven book series is tantamount to heresy. Rowling writes in a heavily traditional way with out any traces of avant garde or experimentalism. She simply won't kill the POV character.

2) Quiddich. Yup... that sport. There IS a point to it. I have spent seven books trying to figure out why the flitwick Rowling felt a game as preposterous as Quiddich should serve as an important piece of the story. The entire game goes on as points are scored for as long as it takes to find the snitch. Then a seeker gets the snitch. Then that seeker's team wins. It seems pointless to have so many players simply as a distraction. Then I realized it's more than a bit of a metaphor. Its not just a ritualized form of struggle in the wizarding world, it is the entire plot. In the end, the teams do not matter. It is Harry and Voldemort - the two seekers - that matter. Only one of them can get the snitch. It seems that snitch is the ability to survive, whatever form Rowling chooses to give it.

mactabard_25 February 8th, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sickoftv (Post 4337363)
Deep down, I want Harry to die. Not that I have anything against the guy, it just seems apropriate. However, there are two solid reasons he will not:

1) It would break Point of View atrociously. Any writer who has been through an entry level workshop or had fiction edited by a professional will know that breaking POV is discoraged unless done well and for a good reason. To KILL the point of view character of a seven book series is tantamount to heresy. Rowling writes in a heavily traditional way with out any traces of avant garde or experimentalism. She simply won't kill the POV character.

2) Quiddich. Yup... that sport. There IS a point to it. I have spent seven books trying to figure out why the flitwick Rowling felt a game as preposterous as Quiddich should serve as an important piece of the story. The entire game goes on as points are scored for as long as it takes to find the snitch. Then a seeker gets the snitch. Then that seeker's team wins. It seems pointless to have so many players simply as a distraction. Then I realized it's more than a bit of a metaphor. Its not just a ritualized form of struggle in the wizarding world, it is the entire plot. In the end, the teams do not matter. It is Harry and Voldemort - the two seekers - that matter. Only one of them can get the snitch. It seems that snitch is the ability to survive, whatever form Rowling chooses to give it.

:err:

Sorry mate... It is an intriguing agrument (and I do agree with you on the POV style of writing she uses), but I think at this point JK feels she can do just about anything she wants with the story. In other words she isn't going to conform to a style of writing she is just going to tell the story as it was ment to unfold. Based on her. I also like the analogy of Quiddich and Harry/Voldy's conflict. :cool:

sickoftv February 8th, 2007 4:06 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magicalmysteryg (Post 4337315)
I dont know what classics you're talking about, but what about the many many tragedies? Shakespeare...greek tragedies...there are many stories that end with the hero's death. classic tragedies.

Sorry to double post, but I felt that this idea of the tragic story line needed to be addressed as well.

Harry isn't a tragedy. The point of a tragedy is to demonstrate a clear cause-effect relationship between a person's actions and their undoing. The narrative proceeds with very little deception from tragic flaw to tragic fall. Not only is the plot line far from straight forward in HP, Harry also isn't given a clear tragic flaw. He does not feel overwhelming jealousy like Othello, nor does he outlaw the worship of a god as in the Baccae. He hasn't Frankenstien's ambition and he is certainly more decisive than Hamlet. Now, notice what all these people have in common that Harry does not share: they are adults. They are set in their ways, and we can assume they will not make the change necessary to survive their own flaws because of something formed in their character. Harry is a bit of a jerk in OotP, but he's not fully in control with all the hormones and feelings of abandonment and dark lords coursing through his adolescent skull. Hardly an irreversible tragic flaw.


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