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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

inufan625 May 2nd, 2007 3:20 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by witherwings68 (Post 4483243)
i have looked at it logicaly and as much as i dont want to admit it my conclusion is that harry will die. J.K. has droped 3 major clues that harry will not live throughout this book.
read all clues and conclusion before deciding for yourself

clue one - the part of the prophecy most recited in the book neither can live while the other survives

clue 2 - at the end of ootf harry dose not care hes going to die. almost excited

clue 3 - the most imprtant clue besides the actual prophecy in the begining of thbp Fudge "that is --i dont know----- is a man alive if he cant be killed?"

conclusion
the dark lord is not alive right now. the only way to kill him is to make him live again by destroying the horcruxes. accepting that harry dose have a part of lv's soul in him harry must die in order for LV to Live (then be killed).


My main problem with your conclusion and the whole Harry is a horocrux, and so he has to die is reasoned as follows:

Harry is a horocrux (accidental or not) so he has to die to finish off Voldemort. First let me say I don't think he is one, but if I did, I still wouldn't think he had to die. If Harry is one, then he would have to die before Voldemort because canon leads us to believe that the bit in Voldemort has to be destroyed last or else he can come back because of the anchor the remaining bit would provide. So how is Harry supposed to kill Voldemort like the prophesy says he must, if he is already dead? Also I don't believe Harry would have to die to destroy the soul bit in him, is this was the case. The diary was damaged to destroy the soul, but it still existed after and the same was true for the ring. I would go so far to say that if Nagini is a horocrux, there would be a way to remove the soul piece without killing her, only it is easier just to kill a giant poisonous snake and what needs to be done anyway.

Eliya May 2nd, 2007 12:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Strange enough but if at the begining I was 100% sure Harry wont' die, now i start to doubt (now it's sort of 60% of me for that he will live, 40% that he will die).... I don't think he's a horcrux himself, but he indeed may die defending the ones he loves.

LoveWeasleys May 3rd, 2007 3:23 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Okay SO hear is my theroy... If Harry dies in Book 7 I hope it is this way....
He beats Voldemort, then in the Epliloge (SP??) he goes on to live a LONG and happy life with Ginny and their children and then dies as a VERY OLD wizard years later.
(But it would be great if he never dies :p
I remember reading somewhere that JKR was going to make it almost impossible for other people to write "spin-off" books from the serious so maybe if she covers the rest of his life in the Epliloge (Sp?) then no one can right other books.
BB

Celestrin May 3rd, 2007 6:53 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LeiaShadow
You're right, Jo isn't basing it on Warner Brothers. But Warner Brothers is basing it on her books. And because she knew what was going to happen since book 1, then she must have known what she was doing when she sold Warner Bros. the movie rights. She wouldn't have made them so obligated to kill off a popular character, I am thinking. She would not let a theme park be created if the main character of the park is going to die. These are some strong arguements for the Harry Lives camp, I think.

I don't think Harry will die, but I also don't think Jo could have stoped the media fanfaire of HP. Do you really think she would have said, "Well, because Harry will die at the end you can't make a movie, or a figurine, or a theme park."? Sorry I disagree.

fnorsdad May 3rd, 2007 8:58 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I once was fairly certain Harry was going to die. In SS, the centaurs seem to predict that Harry is going to die, and that Firenze is meddling with the fates by saving Harry. Also Trelawny's constant predictions, and of course the prophesy. Dumbledore says that Voldemort does not understand that there are things worse than death, which made me think that Voldemort would kill Harry, but himself suffer a fate worse than death. Recently I have come to disagree with this analasis. In Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore tells Harry that the sorting hat put him in Griffendor rather than Slytherin because Harry didn't want to go into Slytherin. I believe this is a common theme in the Harry Potter books, and that is, we must control our own destiny, and take charge of our own lives. The reason the prophesy pertains to Harry is because Voldemort chose to mark him as his equal. I still believe Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death, but I believe Harry will live and the prophesy will go unfulfilled, like the Centaurs' divinations, because Harry will choose not to fulfill his destiny but to create his own destiny.

bigjimmy May 5th, 2007 3:04 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
NO!!!!! :scared:

gUcCiGryffindor May 5th, 2007 3:28 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

charmedp7 May 5th, 2007 3:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Okay, so about the 'Harry is a horcrux' ordeal, I do belive that he's a horcrux!
BUT I don't think he's going to die either.
If Harry was a horcrux, he would have one seventh of LV's soul in him right? Along with his whole soul. So if Harry goes through the veil or something like that happens (which I belive will, JKR will make it seem like the dies, just to prove furthermore that isn't scared of sacrifising for someone else...Ginny?), and he "dies"...wouldn't the weaker soul die, rather then the whole soul?
So, I do belive he's a horcrux, which is something I point-blank refused to belive in the past. And he will live...there's too much life waiting for him.
But while I was thinking about this...and as much as I belive that he WILL live..for some strange reason...I can't see Harry growing old.
Well, we'll find out in 77 days! :)

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 3:56 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Ha ha ha I like that saying "Give me Harry Potter or give me death."--Ellie

That is good!!

He has too many people on his side willing to help him. They won't let him die!

BurrowGhoul May 5th, 2007 5:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fnorsdad (Post 4492894)
I once was fairly certain Harry was going to die. In SS, the centaurs seem to predict that Harry is going to die, and that Firenze is meddling with the fates by saving Harry. Also Trelawny's constant predictions, and of course the prophesy. Dumbledore says that Voldemort does not understand that there are things worse than death, which made me think that Voldemort would kill Harry, but himself suffer a fate worse than death. Recently I have come to disagree with this analasis. In Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore tells Harry that the sorting hat put him in Griffendor rather than Slytherin because Harry didn't want to go into Slytherin. I believe this is a common theme in the Harry Potter books, and that is, we must control our own destiny, and take charge of our own lives. The reason the prophesy pertains to Harry is because Voldemort chose to mark him as his equal. I still believe Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death, but I believe Harry will live and the prophesy will go unfulfilled, like the Centaurs' divinations, because Harry will choose not to fulfill his destiny but to create his own destiny.

Well said.

ComicBookWorm May 5th, 2007 1:49 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4492432)
I remember reading somewhere that JKR was going to make it almost impossible for other people to write "spin-off" books from the serious so maybe if she covers the rest of his life in the Epliloge (Sp?) then no one can right other books.

Frankly, I have never seen a comment like from her. If you have a quote saying that, please link it for us. What she has said is that we won't need any prequels or sequels once she finshed since what we need to know will be in the book, meaning she is going to try to tie up as many loose ends as possible. I'm certain she has tight copyright control over her material and is not worried about others writing more Harry Potter books.

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 2:12 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4495642)
Frankly, I have never seen a comment like from her. If you have a quote saying that, please link it for us. What she has said is that we won't need any prequels or sequels once she finshed since what we need to know will be in the book, meaning she is going to try to tie up as many loose ends as possible. I'm certain she has tight copyright control over her material and is not worried about others writing more Harry Potter books.

I think this is the one I was talking about. I remember she said something a long the lines of it not being like Star Wars :) Possibly on her website...I will look...:)

ComicBookWorm May 5th, 2007 2:25 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4495661)
I think this is the one I was talking about. I remember she said something a long the lines of it not being like Star Wars :) Possibly on her website...I will look...:)

When she said that she was trying to shoot down theories about Harry being related to Voldemort. It actually took her several pronouncements before she got the idea across.

I suspect that we obsessive fans will still want more backstory than she does finally give us. But, the truth of the matter is that what we want to know and what we really need to know for the story to work are two entirely different things. :lol:

Certain heroes (like Superman) were created by starving unknowns who gave away almost all rights to the characters. In Jo's case, she was a starving unknown for only one of her books. Since then, I'm certain that subsequent negotiations have secured her rights as tightly as possible.

And to tie this back to will Harry die? No. Period. And she certainly won't need to kill him off to protect her control of her characters. Characters get resurrected all the time in comic books and other fiction. All they need is a creative explanation why the character wasn't really dead.

Spock died, but then he was back again in the next movie.

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 2:44 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4495676)
And to tie this back to will Harry die? No. Period. And she certainly won't need to kill him off to protect her control of her characters. Characters get resurrected all the time in comic books and other fiction. All they need is a creative explanation why the character wasn't really dead.

Good answer!

I found one of the quotes on her site in the rumor section where it was asked if she would do prequals with Jame's and Lily's story and she said, "Too much Star Wars will do this to a person."

P.S. (it would be great to get more back story...I know! I will be happy with whatever she tells us.) :)

ComicBookWorm May 5th, 2007 3:27 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LOVEWEASLEYS04 (Post 4495692)
I found one of the quotes on her site in the rumor section where it was asked if she would do prequals with Jame's and Lily's story and she said, "Too much Star Wars will do this to a person."

I forgot about that one.

muchXmoreXmacho May 5th, 2007 4:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I dont think Harry will die in Deathly Hallows, because Jo has really become too attatched to him to kill him off at age 17!! I think that she has to include the rest of his life up until the day he dies in the epilogue, but not because of people rewriting her stuff - just because it would kill us not to know. Honestly, even if she does include an in-depth description of Harry's life post-book 7 in the epilogue, she cant do much about people rewriting or making more movies, etc. That's what happens with classics - version after version just keep coming out. Look at Romeo and Juliet - Leo Dicaprio with a gun. What was that?

RyanHBP May 5th, 2007 7:25 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I have a theory that Harry is going to jump through the veil. I Think that the trio will go through, but ron and hermione get spit out again. harry is going through to get the last horcrux.

Charline81 May 5th, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Strider62442 (Post 4330573)
JKR has carefully kept open the possibility that Harry could die. She acknowledged the scenario where the writer kills the character to keep them theirs for eternity. But it struck me as odd because its really a non-issue. Could anyone ever concievably take up Harry Potter without JKR's permission? Harry is already locked in as hers and only hers, so the death based on closing off Harry to other authors seems pointless since hes closed off to them alive. Yet JKR made a point of acknowledging it. I think she wants to keep us guessing and in suspense.

The series, its message and themes point more toward Harry living. Throughout the books Harry lives against increasingly astounding odds. But he has suffered terribly along the way. To kill him upon achieving final victory would be too cruel. Seeing his parents and Sirius and Dumbledore again wouldn't be enough. He has more on the ground going for him in Ginny and Ron and Hermione.

Its not as simple as saying "you cant kill him because it will upset the kids." Let us not forget that this series has likely upset most people already. Cedric's murder was disturbing, Sirius's was upsetting, Dumbledore's was downright crushing. The series has already established through those deaths, especially Dumbledore's that heroes often meet their end unnaturally. The series has not been all miraculous victories for the Light Side in Harry's triumphs and escapes. This series has also been filled with predictable and inevitable numerous victories that evil wins.

Then there is the wizarding world to think about. These people as a society have given Harry very little but pain. The society is sufficently sunken prejudice and corruption to deserve what its getting. They don't desserve to be saved by Harry's sacrifice. It would do much more than frustrate many of us. The peace after the war will be botched by whoever is left to lead the wizarding community and minimal change will insue because all the wise leadership was killed in the war. It's happened before in our world. It would be too real for it to be presented in HP.

It would also seem too cruel to Ginny. Sure, its not as though they were married or anything like that, and yes she could move on and have a happy life. But she would always remember and wonder. Can someone ever really move on from something like that? This is a situation that has occured too often also. And we all already knew it. Why insert despair into a series that has been about hope? I look at Ginny more as other people have mentioned, as evidence that Harry has a purpose after Voldemort. She has been explicit in saying that Harry is not a Christ figure. She has also been careful to say again and again that that the prophecy is only significant because both Harry and Voldemort have chosen to take it seriously. So you can't say Harry came into the world for the sole purpose of killing Voldemort, it isn't true to the message about destiny and the gradual ascension of Ginny as Harry's ideal girl reinforces this.

Harry is clearly willing to die to get rid of Voldemort and would not hesitate to sacrifice himself for those he loves. This doesnt mean that it must be so. It is critical that Harry is willing to do as his mother did. In the end I think it will be like when he looked into the Mirror of Erised; one willing to lay down their life for others will be able to vanquish Voldemort and live.

Death is present throughout the whole of the series. But while keeping it real, with innocents and good guys dying, she has also cultivated a refined and hopeful presentation of the subject. In Order of the Phoenix Harry heard voices behind the veil. This was a subtle but obvious confirmation to Harry that there is definately something on the other side. Before the moment when he talked about it with Luna Harry viewed death simply as the end. JKR presents that view of death without Dr. House's "let's make sure you know that your existance and your pain and suffering is all for nothing". JKR has routinely injected a tone of mystery and hope into the subject.

Perhaps this could be viewed as preparing the reader and Harry for his ultimate demise. At least he'll see his dead loved ones again. But while this could be a comfort to Harry, the one who has almost literal proof that death isnt just "the end", it is little comfort to us, the readers who have no such comfort as voices from beyond the veil, and we who have Dr. House weekly to give us our dose of depression.:lol: I think its a bad way to end the series. It pretty much says "Do the right thing kids, and even if you die, and die you probably will, and violently by the way, (since most people who do right in the face of evil do) and you will be with your dead loved ones in the beyond... if there really is one." Its not really an uplifting message and not at all consistent with the rest of the series. Even in the books that end in darkness, GoF, OotP, HBP, there is still the lingering hope. This is present in the last line of each of those books. Harry's death would just bring about the line "so what was the point of all this?"

Then there is the "Frodo" argument about Harry as we know him dying and maybe not being enough left to go on. I just can't see this happening. Harry is stronger than people give him credit for. I get surprised when people think he won't defeat Voldemort without Ginny holding his hand or something as if it wasnt his inner strength that got him through every serious crisis in his life. Sure Harry "cracked up a little" in OotP. But that was more a natural outgrowth of the strain he had been put through for five years and coming to the realization that it isn't going to end. By HBP though he has revived perceptably. His resolve has never been stronger. He isnt damaged goods to the point that he can't function, interact and love and he never will be. One of the keys to Harry's greatness according to Dumbledore was Harry's ability not to let evil corrupt or change his fundamental core. Predicting that Harry living would just leave severly damaged goods is inconsistant with what Dumbledore called "the incomparable power of the soul that is unbroken and whole."

For these reasons I think he will live. The series will end on its strongest message of hope. The good person can conquer evil totally. I think we will see Harry come out older in spirit and very weary. And who wouldnt be? The series has also been about Harry's education in a realm of magic outside of spells and potions-- corny but true. Harry will emerge from this thing with more wisdom than most people achieve in their lifetimes.

(new here hello everyone)
:tu:
Even if that whole thing about possibly killing Harry to end the story so that others can not come behind her and write more on it were true....even killing Harry couldnt end the story and keep someone from doing that, because theres an entire back story that she has only given bits of, someone if they actually wanted to and could get the rights to do it has enough bits to go of of to write a prequel its one of those stories that isnt that easy to just end by killing the main person off.
Also without gaining the rights no one could go behind her and write more about it, and if they did I can bet anything it wouldnt be very good!
No one can be JK, and get into her mind that easily so the books wouldnt be that good or at least not to me.

A far as the back story I would along with a few others I know kill for a pre quel lol but thats neither here nor there.

All I can do is hope she doesnt kill Harry, and honestly when you have someone like Stephen King begging you NOT to kill Harry,you should take note and not kill him BUT thats just my opinion cause I dont want Harry to die, I'd be a big cry baby lol I'm 26 years old and I know if I would freak out if she killed Harry, Im sure the younger children will as well, but like someone else pointed out she writes them for her not others, so I can only hope she feels as strongly as most of us in not wanting Harry to die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fnorsdad (Post 4492894)
I once was fairly certain Harry was going to die. In SS, the centaurs seem to predict that Harry is going to die, and that Firenze is meddling with the fates by saving Harry. Also Trelawny's constant predictions, and of course the prophesy. Dumbledore says that Voldemort does not understand that there are things worse than death, which made me think that Voldemort would kill Harry, but himself suffer a fate worse than death. Recently I have come to disagree with this analasis. In Chamber of Secrets, Dumbledore tells Harry that the sorting hat put him in Griffendor rather than Slytherin because Harry didn't want to go into Slytherin. I believe this is a common theme in the Harry Potter books, and that is, we must control our own destiny, and take charge of our own lives. The reason the prophesy pertains to Harry is because Voldemort chose to mark him as his equal. I still believe Voldemort will suffer a fate worse than death, but I believe Harry will live and the prophesy will go unfulfilled, like the Centaurs' divinations, because Harry will choose not to fulfill his destiny but to create his own destiny.



:tu:
Agree specially on the part about Voldemort having made Harry his equal, if ya remember Neville also matches the prophecy but Voldemort only got part of the actual prophecy I think he only got the "The one born with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches…. Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies… " part (have to go back and reread again lol) but he jumped just from what little he had and choose Harry, when Neville could have just as easily been choosen.
Voldemort should have learned never count your chickens before their hatched and got the rest of the prophecy before jumping feet first lol :D

LoveWeasleys May 5th, 2007 10:16 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
"I don't want Harry to die!" I am sure everyone has said that. I don't think he will die either the argument that Strider62442 is pretty strong and I like the different points made. Still there is still possible that he could and that what keeps driving us mad!!
But, I think the canon supports that he won't die for the many reasons stated above.

ComicBookWorm May 6th, 2007 5:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well for one, Jo wouldn't have needed to break Harry and Ginny up. If he was going to die heroically, they could have stayed together since there wouldn't be a relationship after the series ended, so why not let them have a little happiness first. Jo broke them up to make their reunion all the sweeter at the end.


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