Chamber of Secrets

Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/index.php)
-   Divination Studies (http://www.cosforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81)
-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

rogues311 June 7th, 2007 3:14 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
If at all Harry does die, he should go down in style. meaning there should be a huge battle scene where everyones involved and voldemort just happens to get the better of him. i'd like to think not, but if not harry then who?? (theoretically speaking)

DADAteacher June 7th, 2007 5:07 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4547999)
recently since HP7's been coming up lately ive been asking around to see if people think like the topic if he'll survive, and im surprised that more people said that he'd die in book 7. i know its noble and what not, but isnt the point of the series to sort of see harry suceed, defeat lord voldemort and finally live the life he pretty much deserves?. just asking how many people are with me, i totaly think harry will live through the war.

I do think Harry will survive - I totally agree - Harry is the guy you want to win because he has always got the crappy end of the stick.

I think that Harry survives and he wont be unscathed - he will suffer loss and disappointment again but he will be victorious against Voldemort.

Philosophically speaking, one of the lessons we see over and over again in great epics is the triumph of good over evil although it may appear that evil is temporarily winning - like the phase: evil is winning the battles but losing the war. My other point is it is too easy for Harry to sacrifice himself as the Hero - wouldnt it be a bit more realistic that at the end Harry has to pick himself up, dust himself off and continue on living - persevering?

I've ranted enough...I with you!!!

Amidala June 7th, 2007 11:02 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
hm, I always thought it a good possibility that harry might die.
What really bugs me is the thought, that JKR doesnt do it because the books have become such a huge success and she kinda has to make ammendmends.
I would really hate that, because I want to read the story the way she planned it from the start. Is there a thread about this?

Spritey June 7th, 2007 8:06 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amidala (Post 4552909)
hm, I always thought it a good possibility that harry might die.
What really bugs me is the thought, that JKR doesnt do it because the books have become such a huge success and she kinda has to make ammendmends.
I would really hate that, because I want to read the story the way she planned it from the start. Is there a thread about this?

Every quote I've read from Jo has convinced me that she wouldn't do that (and I kind of wish Richard and Judy had never even mentioned the Sherlock Holmes thing, seeing as it gets misinterpreted so frequently.) Accio-Quote is an archive of nearly all of her interviews; I don't have time to collect quotes now, but if you browse around you should come across some of the interviews I did.

Edit: Here's the full text of the Sherlock Holmes thing, for those who wonder what the hell I'm going on about:

JKR 2006 Interview with Richard and JudyRichard: I was dodging around the death bit, because I know you can't answer that question, But you know how Conan-Doyle got sick up to there of Sherlock Holmes ...

Jo: I've never been tempted to kill him off before the end of book 7. I have always planned seven books and that is where I want to go, where I want to finish on seven books. But I can completely understand the mentality of an author who thinks "Well I am going to kill them off because that means there can be no non-author written sequels as they call them, so it will end with me and after I am dead and gone" - they would be able to bring back the character and write a load of ...


She understands it, but that doesn't mean she's going to do it :) And sorry, I think I ended up replying to two unrelated issues there... oh well.

sweets7 June 8th, 2007 1:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I'm ambivalent about the issue to be honest.

I don't want Harry to die, heck I'd be upset if anyone but Voldemort, Bellatrix and Wormtail died. However I think if he does I will be somewhat prepared.

JKR was a classics student and in mythology the hero always dies and that sticks in my mind.

If he lives there can't be a sugary sweet ending however, somehow that wouldn't seem right.

Beyond my concern for Harry however is my hope that the Harry Potter books will go out in a blaze of glory. I very much hope that this last book secures its place as a literary great, when all the hype has ended. This I very much hope, even above my desire for a favourable outcome for individual characters

inkling7 June 8th, 2007 4:19 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Well let's hope what we have just read above is correct as this wil mean that Harry lives and fulfills some sort of life,,,,,,

Ronny June 8th, 2007 4:57 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry will not die but he will not live happily. Dumbledore is dead, Sirius is dead and killing Voldermort can't bring back his parents. Ultimately it is all futile, all his suffering cannot destroy the ideals of blood purity which people will always cling on to. Will Harry's victory get rid of elitism or Ministry corruption? Nope. It's all in vain, he can win for a day but new injustices will always be waiting for him in the morning.

inkling7 June 8th, 2007 6:28 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Actually that is an entirely sentnment regarding Harry's future life. but the question is - does Jo have this same line of thinking????

Johnvmaster June 8th, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think in the end, he will have to sacrifice himself to destroy Lord Voldemort once and for all.

scienceofsleep June 8th, 2007 11:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
if my memory is correct most of the things that happen in the books involve harry physically being in the scene or imagining it. even at the begining of goblet, the voldemort and pettigrew scene at the riddle house harry was there in essence because he was 'dreaming' about it. The only only part that i seem to recall harry wasnt a part of was the begining of HBP with the muggle minister, fudge and the new minister of magic.

Let me get to the whole harry dying or not debate. what im saying is, i know JKR wont have the last chapter of book 7 be the big climax. harry and voldemorts battle will be oone of the last chapters yes but definitley not the last one. im a strong beleiver that harry will surivive the war, and i have lots of reasons to support it, this is a new 'technical' sort of reason i thought up. JKR needs to write the last chapter of harry potter, and i dont think she can write a chapter if harry isnt in it or physically alive at the time, unless she's going to try and pull off some sort of 'epilogue' thing explaining how harry's LEGACY lives on or some rubbish like that.
does anyone know what im getting at?

Spritey June 8th, 2007 11:49 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scienceofsleep (Post 4556992)
if my memory is correct most of the things that happen in the books involve harry physically being in the scene or imagining it. even at the begining of goblet, the voldemort and pettigrew scene at the riddle house harry was there in essence because he was 'dreaming' about it. The only only part that i seem to recall harry wasnt a part of was the begining of HBP with the muggle minister, fudge and the new minister of magic.

Let me get to the whole harry dying or not debate. what im saying is, i know JKR wont have the last chapter of book 7 be the big climax. harry and voldemorts battle will be oone of the last chapters yes but definitley not the last one. im a strong beleiver that harry will surivive the war, and i have lots of reasons to support it, this is a new 'technical' sort of reason i thought up. JKR needs to write the last chapter of harry potter, and i dont think she can write a chapter if harry isnt in it or physically alive at the time, unless she's going to try and pull off some sort of 'epilogue' thing explaining how harry's LEGACY lives on or some rubbish like that.
does anyone know what im getting at?

I know what you're getting at. I disagree, though :D I think it's perfectly plausible that Harry will continue narrating if he dies - this is fiction, after all, Jo could write anything. I think if he dies, we'll go with him.

Either that or Ron narrates, I guess, like he did at the beginning of PS in the trio's first fight as a team (against the troll).

(P.S., Actually, I get the impression we're not in Harry's PoV properly, but I am a literary idiot and so someone smarter than I will need to explain that.)

lancane June 9th, 2007 12:08 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Sorry, but am I the only one, or so it seems that feels this a tad bit morbid?

If Harry does die, Rowling will be faced with a terrible dilemma -- the fans, while I see that many on here are stating it is noble, fact is there is nothing noble about death, nobility is upon one's actions in life, and I might say different if Harry was 32 and not barely a man, as he is...it is almost sickening that the following generations are enticed with death. Much like the Romans, Trojans and Spartans: Where the toll did not matter, only the result -- by blade or by spears' splinter though shall die for glory; for it was and is nonsense. We tell our children that they should enjoy childhood, for life is hard enough; where as Harry had not, and now we expect him to sacrifice himself for others...but the those he loves are fastly dying or are dead, so is it justified to send him to his death and never really live? - Why don't we just strap a bomb on Harry and have him go to Voldemort's lair as a suicide bomber and justify the way the Al Queida fights?

I feel that while he wishes to save others makes him noble, his death would be pathetic, not in terms of a storyline, but the rich fame of his story; voted the most famous hero in literature and a billion-dollar franchise that follows his tale, would then be stained; why? Because we tell our children...young or old, to struggle on, life is hard but if you make the sacrifices needed you will have a bountiful life; where that is a miss for Harry: Lose all those you love, or near it, deal with struggle, strife and pain of being a target -- you are born only to serve wizard and mankind and truly deserve nothing yourself! Almost sounds like the Vietnam slogan we American's should have adopted in that time period.

Let alone he is but a boy, and the book will sell, because it already has in pre-sales alone, the movie would likely be nowhere near the others - even HBP the film may take a hit; Christian family's will be enraged, children will cry and much more...I just do not see Rowling doing this and in turn spreading ill-conceptive babble that underminds the society we wish or strive to have, no matter the misgivings of the few.

I just can not see her killing Harry, who is near a child to her and saying to everyone...here is nobility in death, sacrifice and pain is but a road to death, you may suffer and in the end your life is cost and one should have no such thing or happiness in the end, just die and make it count!

:no:

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 12:23 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I do not see these reasons preventing her from killing Harry to be honest. She decided many years ago what his fate would be and that has in all likelihood remained unchanged.

A lot of people have commented to me in recent months about why she would kill Harry that it is too harsh, too cruel for a children’s book, but I disagree. Because of these comments i recently had a look at one of my favourite childhood series of books the: 'Anne of Green Gables' series. from a quick glance of these books I counted four significant deaths. I was, as many are when they read these books, very young, nine or ten during my first read. None really upset me that much with the exception of one.

My point is that even young children can handle these things. Death is as much a part of life as love and your choices and in my opinion these are the biggest themes of the books.

All this being said, if the books end brilliantly, and Harry is still alive I will be a happy bunny. I just do not see such considerations as you mentioned entering JKR head. She will and has indeed written what she thinks is the most appropriate ending to the series.

Spritey June 9th, 2007 2:25 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lancane (Post 4557047)
Sorry, but am I the only one, or so it seems that feels this a tad bit morbid?

If Harry does die, Rowling will be faced with a terrible dilemma -- the fans, while I see that many on here are stating it is noble, fact is there is nothing noble about death, nobility is upon one's actions in life...

The Secret Riddle, HBP"My mother can't have been magic, or she wouldn't have died..." said Riddle, more to himself than Dumbledore.


A Sluggish Memory, HBP[Dumbledore]"... and began his [Voldemort's] investigations into his previously despised mother's family - the woman who, you will remember, he had thought could not be a witch if she had succumbed to the shameful human weakness of death."


Horcruxes, HBPBut he understood at last what Dumbledore was trying to tell him. It was, he thought, the difference between being dragged into the arena to face a battle to the death and walking into the arena with your head held high. Some people, perhaps, would say there was little to choose between the two ways, but Dumbledore knew - and so do I, thought Harry, with a rush of fierce pride, and so did my parents - that there was all the difference in the world.


Lily Potter also wishes she didn't get forgotten so much D: Honestly, you die for people, and what do you get? Seriously, though, it's actually interesting to note (to me, at least, because I am a geek) that some of Jo's strongest characters have died. I wonder what that's trying to say?

Quote:

I feel that while he wishes to save others makes him noble, his death would be pathetic, not in terms of a storyline, but the rich fame of his story; voted the most famous hero in literature and a billion-dollar franchise that follows his tale, would then be stained; why? Because we tell our children...young or old, to struggle on, life is hard but if you make the sacrifices needed you will have a bountiful life; where that is a miss for Harry: Lose all those you love, or near it, deal with struggle, strife and pain of being a target -- you are born only to serve wizard and mankind and truly deserve nothing yourself!
I really disagree. To reduce Harry's story to that is to write off Ron and Hermione, Sirius, his parents, Dumbledore, the Weasleys - in short, everything that he's fighting for. It's also writing off everything we've been with him through (the good and the bad - please don't forget the good, people do that way too often. Harry doesn't like tiny violins, know what I mean?), in favour of a future we're most likely not going to read.

Quote:

Let alone he is but a boy, and the book will sell, because it already has in pre-sales alone, the movie would likely be nowhere near the others - even HBP the film may take a hit; Christian family's will be enraged, children will cry and much more...I just do not see Rowling doing this and in turn spreading ill-conceptive babble that underminds the society we wish or strive to have, no matter the misgivings of the few.
Well, Harry Potter is a book. It really has very little bearing on society. And I'm going to have to go now, my elbow is bleeding... oh dear :rolleyes:

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7
All this being said, if the books end brilliantly, and Harry is still alive I will be a happy bunny. I just do not see such considerations as you mentioned entering JKR head. She will and has indeed written what she thinks is the most appropriate ending to the series.

Complete and utter agreement from me. She'll do what her story calls for.

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 2:39 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4557082)
Well, Harry Potter is a book. It really has very little bearing on society. And I'm going to have to go now, my elbow is bleeding... oh dear

I agree, I think that sometimes we forget this fact. I sometimes even discuss the characters like their real. The books have achieved a fame and worldwide reputation that may never be seen with regards a book again.

It will however, in a hundred years stand beyond this fame as a work of literature, and will be judged as such. I agree that a book of fiction cannot effect society in such a way.

The idea of the epilogue if Harry dies is easy enough to deal with. The epilogue could take the form of letters between characters, an article, it could perhaps be told in a third person omnipotent viewpoint. The epilogues most important job will be to serve as plot exposition for the surviving characters future lifes. Knowing how JKR writes, whether Harry lives or dies this will be imaginative, clever and amusingly done.

Spritey June 9th, 2007 2:48 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4557099)
I agree, I think that sometimes we forget this fact. I sometimes even discuss the characters like their real. The books have achieved a fame and worldwide reputation that may never be seen with regards a book again.

It will however, in a hundred years stand beyond this fame as a work of literature, and will be judged as such. I agree that a book of fiction cannot effect society in such away.

Mmhmm, I do that all the time - I can't tell you how often I've had to step back and say, "Wait, perspective, stat!" :D And Harry Potter has been very important to a lot of people, me included (I really can't say how much, because it'll sound like a huge dorky cliche, honestly)... but I guess we're a very small percentage of the population, really. The online fandom, as big as it is, is kinda tiny when compared with the real world. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter, it's just that we've got to keep that in mind, I suppose. *nods* Perspective, like I said. Yes. Indeed.

*goes back to writing fanfiction at two in the morning*

sweets7 June 9th, 2007 2:55 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I know what you mean. The books have been a source of comfort to me during very dark times and will always mean a tremendous amount (not to be too dramatic or anything).

sparkly June 9th, 2007 1:52 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4553673)
Every quote I've read from Jo has convinced me that she wouldn't do that (and I kind of wish Richard and Judy had never even mentioned the Sherlock Holmes thing, seeing as it gets misinterpreted so frequently.) Accio-Quote is an archive of nearly all of her interviews; I don't have time to collect quotes now, but if you browse around you should come across some of the interviews I did.

Edit: Here's the full text of the Sherlock Holmes thing, for those who wonder what the hell I'm going on about:

JKR 2006 Interview with Richard and JudyRichard: I was dodging around the death bit, because I know you can't answer that question, But you know how Conan-Doyle got sick up to there of Sherlock Holmes ...

Jo: I've never been tempted to kill him off before the end of book 7. I have always planned seven books and that is where I want to go, where I want to finish on seven books. But I can completely understand the mentality of an author who thinks "Well I am going to kill them off because that means there can be no non-author written sequels as they call them, so it will end with me and after I am dead and gone" - they would be able to bring back the character and write a load of ...


She understands it, but that doesn't mean she's going to do it :) And sorry, I think I ended up replying to two unrelated issues there... oh well.

It's been a while since I've read the original quote and I see it now in an entirely different light.

Jo was not talking about the fact that Conan Doyle killed Holmes at all. She was contrasting Conan Doyle's decision to kill his character before the series had ended because he had become tired of writing Holmes, and she was saying she had always planned just the seven books and was never tempted to do the same to Harry. She never felt the same as Conan Doyle although she can understand why someone else might be tempted.

A key difference is that Conan Doyle did not have a plan for his Holmes series - it started as a series in a newspaper and was only published as a book later. He just started writing - the stories became popular, and he tired of them. Jo, on the other hand, had always planned seven books and had a definite end to the series when she started (the famous last chapter). Conan Doyle did what he did because he didn't have an alternative.

If we are to carry the Holmes analogy to its conclusion, it's impossible to use Conan Doyle's decision in what would become the middle of the series to extrapolate that Jo will kill Harry. After Conan Doyle resurrected Holmes, he ended the series by having Holmes retire to the country and keep bees (in fact, there are Holmes fans who believe he's still there!).

Ronny June 9th, 2007 3:51 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
But if Harry lives what will his victory be? Until the day he lies old and dying he will have no peace. Killing Voldemort does not kill those who loved him and they will target Potter, they will hound him and his friends until he's dead. And so a young man who just wants to live his life will also need to cope with the celebrity his inevitable victory will bring. What kind of life is that? All those who could have steered him down the right path are gone.

drummer June 9th, 2007 4:00 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
No, I don't believe can die.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:02 pm.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.