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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

coolhandluke May 17th, 2007 12:45 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
He better not. It would have been a complete waste of time if he does and JKR will have ruined her own books with a pathetic ending just because she doesnt want to write any more about him.

SIRIUSlyawesome May 17th, 2007 12:50 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I doubt that Harry will die. He's been through so much, helped so much in the defeat of the Dark Lord. I think that we can all agree that Harry definatley deserves to see Voldemort good and dead, and live happily ever after.

I just can't see JK Rowling killing him.

LikeLuna May 17th, 2007 1:29 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by waiting4dh (Post 4515422)
he has to die, jo will feel pressured to right more if she doesn't, so i think she will have to!!!!!!!

I don't think JKR could be "pressured" by anyone to add more to the series if she didn't want to.

LoveWeasleys May 17th, 2007 1:40 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coolhandluke (Post 4515435)
He better not. It would have been a complete waste of time if he does and JKR will have ruined her own books with a pathetic ending just because she doesnt want to write any more about him.

I don't want Harry to die (at all) But, afterall we have to remember that this Jo's story to tell. She knew how it would end before she began writing it. Even though it would be hard to take if Harry died, Jo wouldn't do it unless there was a reason and I am sure that she would take her along on her thought process...
Bottom line, its her story, and whether we would agree with our not, it is what it is. She has never killed off a character without a reason and she wouldn't do it to Harry either. :)

Hawk_Shade7 May 17th, 2007 3:37 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will have to die for his friends. To die like his mother did, in order to destroy Voldemort with Love. I don't believe he is a horcrux, but he would have to die, because love is the only way to destroy Voldemort.

JimmyPotter May 17th, 2007 4:29 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Regarding a message I posted earlier, I have now decided that it would in fact not make sense for the first chapter of the first book to be "The Boy Who Lived" if Harry dies at a young age in DH.

seeker85 May 17th, 2007 1:46 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
what if at the end of the story, he was known as the man who lived? seeings how hes 17 now

JerryCooke May 17th, 2007 2:55 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I know that Jo has said in interview that we presume too much in thinking that she's sentimental about culling characters, but I think the the broader connotations of allowing the central figure to die are all wrong. I think that a triumph over adversity sends the right message, however I guess that Harry could triumph in the killing of Voldemort but then die in the process, or get killed and take Voldemort down with him, so at most it's just speculation. I think the question is the motivation behind the final outcome of the series, whether JKR is putting forward a message of happiness and survival at the end, or of noble self-sacrifice (which she has already shown is something that Harry has a strong ability for). Also, and I'm sure this has been mentioned, Voldemort's death is something that I believe to be very likely, allowing such an evil person to survive at the end of the series just doesn't seem right and the relation of the prophecy to this makes it very clear (in my mind) that Voldemort will be killed, be it at Harry's hands or as a result of Harry's death.

Personally, I believe that Harry will survive, I certainly hope that he does.

Lillbet May 17th, 2007 5:05 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling7 (Post 4514645)
However Jo is writing for herself not the movie the 300 so can you really make comparisons between her books and other stories/movies you may have read/seen?

Well... yes, actually. Do it all the time, in fact.

Like it or not, JKR (as a writer) is part of a literary tradition of heroes, epic stories, journeys, etc. She's a writer, and since one of the keys to becoming a successful writer is to read. For her not to be influenced by what she has read- whether it be the story of the Battle of Thermopylae, Joseph Campbell or whatever- would be the same as suggesting that she's lived under a rock for her entire life. And since most of us have read such stories in the course of our schooling, we're going to see those influences.

Simply stated: JKR has stated that she has cast Harry in the mold of the hero. "300" is based on an epic story featuring a hero- Leonidas, the king of Sparta, who fought against great odds and (apparently) lost. The story of the battle that Frank Miller based his comic on (on which, in turn, the movie was based) has been around for centuries, and influenced a lot of literature and movies, so has the basic hero archetype- on which JKR based Harry.

So yes, we can make those comparisons- both are epic stories featuring heroes overcoming great odds. As of this very moment we don't know if Harry will survive, but frankly it would be foolish to assume that he should, just "because."

ComicBookWorm May 17th, 2007 6:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4516462)
Simply stated: JKR has stated that she has cast Harry in the mold of the hero. "300" is based on an epic story featuring a hero- Leonidas, the king of Sparta, who fought against great odds and (apparently) lost. The story of the battle that Frank Miller based his comic on (on which, in turn, the movie was based) has been around for centuries, and influenced a lot of literature and movies, so has the basic hero archetype- on which JKR based Harry

That story originally came from a warrior culture that glorified death on the battlefield, so that other warriors would willingly fight to their deaths.

The 300 is not a perfect analogy to HP which is a coming of age fantasy adventure. Harry will come of age in DH. Typically the hero does survive in that kind of story, since the reader needs to see him prevail, thus validating his journey to manhood. A majority of the heroic mythss that Campbell summarized in his Hero's Journey, do have the hero survive since those stories focus on the personal growth of the protagonist.

Tolkien followed that path, although Frodo was emotionally and physically damaged by the trevail. I think LOTR is a closer fantasy analogy for HP.

Lillbet May 17th, 2007 7:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It seems my remarks were taken out of context. Let me see if I can be clear...er. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4516603)
The 300 is not a perfect analogy to HP which is a coming of age fantasy adventure. Harry will come of age in DH. Typically the hero does survive in that kind of story, since the reader needs to see him prevail, thus validating his journey to manhood. A majority of the heroic mythss that Campbell summarized in his Hero's Journey, do have the hero survive since those stories focus on the personal growth of the protagonist.

True (I've said so in other threads, in fact), but the point on which "300" was brought up was not the comparison between the two story arcs, but GabyPotter's response to my supposition that according to Campbell's definition of the hero Harry would have to return and pass on his knowledge:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GabyPotter (Post 4512733)
Yeah, he'll probably pass on what he learned but he doesn't have to be alive to do that!... If you saw the movie 300, you'll undeerstand what I mean: Leonidas died and so the guy whose eye was poked out passed on his knowledge of Leonidas to other people to inspire them... so Leonidas' legacy continued even though he had died...

While I agree that part of the hero's journey is to pass along his knowledge, GabyPotter brings up the point that the knowledge can be passed on even if the hero dies.

Hopefully that made sense :)

ComicBookWorm May 17th, 2007 9:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4516617)
While I agree that part of the hero's journey is to pass along his knowledge, GabyPotter brings up the point that the knowledge can be passed on even if the hero dies.

In this case, I don't think that the knowledge Harry gains is what needs to be passed on. Myths typically have a moral lesson to convey. We've certainly gotten those in HP, but it has also been a journey of personal growth for a lonely impoverished little boy. A hero's journey is a series of challenges and transformations as the hero rises to the challenge. But in this case the coming of age story is equally important. And the hero usually lives in those stories since he does actually have to come of age.

alittlebird May 18th, 2007 1:37 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I think Harry will die, not because of the option of future books(since that is always an option with a series like this). But because Harry is linked to Voldemort whether he likes it or not. For Harry to murder anyone he will probably become like Voldemort.
If Harry does die i believe that Ron will deliver the final blow, several members of the order will probably witness this but i think the facts about the final battle will remain vague and taken out of proportion(IE Skeeter doing what she does best)

But this is just all my speculation and although it makes sense to me i doubt any of this will come true

PaRTyGiRL089 May 18th, 2007 8:22 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i think Harry will die.

i feel like if Harry didn't die, that final book is not the final one, cause Harry still lives, which means the story of Harry Potter will still continue, and it will make all of us very happy that we will look for the eight book, so if the seventh book shouldn't be called the final book, if Harry doesn't die..

does that make sense?

seeker85 May 18th, 2007 2:59 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
ive thought about it and i dont really see how harry can die in the book. he has a few people that i think would save him. for one wormtail, he owes harry for letting him live, also i think snape will save him if needed. so i think he has a pretty good chance of living

Snapes_Angel2 May 18th, 2007 5:32 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk_Shade7 (Post 4515704)
I think Harry will have to die for his friends. To die like his mother did, in order to destroy Voldemort with Love. I don't believe he is a horcrux, but he would have to die, because love is the only way to destroy Voldemort.

I agree. I don't think Harry is a Horcrux either; but I do believe that he will end up dying in the end. I think that because of what you said about the fact that love is the only way to destroy Voldemort. The ultimate act of love is to die for a friend or family member; to sacrifive yourself so that the people you love and care about can live.

Voldemort would never be willing to die for any of his followers, and we know what he thought about his mother not staying alive for him when he was born; that is why Voldemort doesn't understand how strong the power of love is. Harry, on the other hand, knows what the power of love can do (considering that's the reason he's still alive today); and I think the only way Harry will be able to defeat Voldemort is by performing the ultimate sacrifice: Dying so that the ones he loves can survive and carry on.

Personally, I think that the biggest act of love that Harry can perform is dying for someone that he hates; which other than Voldemort (who he wouldn't die for anyway) happens to be Severus Snape. That would be the biggest act of sacrifice that I think Harry could perform. We;ve seen Severus portect Harry almost every year, so now it's Harry's time to return the favor.

Godrics_Souljah May 18th, 2007 6:14 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry will not die, but be willing to do so for Snape. I believe that Harry will find out something about Snape that will allow him to possibly love him. Similar, to how he hated Sirius until he found out that Wormtail was the one who betrayed his mother & father. It is at that moment when LV will be distracted long enough for Snape to deliver the final curse. Harry is the character who got the reprieve from JK.

Remember Harry's blood runs through LV's veins if he tries to kill Harry the hate in him will be at war with the blood of Harry that is full of love! That could prove to be fatal!

Snapes_Angel2 May 18th, 2007 6:41 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godrics_Souljah (Post 4518258)
Harry will not die, but be willing to do so for Snape. I believe that Harry will find out something about Snape that will allow him to possibly love him. Similar, to how he hated Sirius until he found out that Wormtail was the one who betrayed his mother & father. It is at that moment when LV will be distracted long enough for Snape to deliver the final curse. Harry is the character who got the reprieve from JK.

Actually, this does make sense :tu:

It's been said that Harry's capability to love will be what defeats Voldemort, but we are never told that Harry will be the one that delivers the final blow. If the senario that you have painted in your post plays out, then it will still be Harry's capability to love that defeats Voldemort, but he won't actually be the one that delivers the final blow; he'll have help.

Severus's character has been built up the last couple books, and it can't have been for nothing; and I like the possibilty that Severus will be the one who finishes off Voldemort while Harry has him distracted by his willingness to die for Severus.

TubaGuy23 May 18th, 2007 7:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I don't believe Harry will die. He has the ultimate weapon to defeat Voldemort with, Love. As long as he continues to love his friends and other people he will maintain the power to beat voldemort.

Also Harry cannot be a hocrux. LV was trying to kill him so why would he make him a hocrux?

Lillbet May 18th, 2007 7:30 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm (Post 4516811)
In this case, I don't think that the knowledge Harry gains is what needs to be passed on. Myths typically have a moral lesson to convey. We've certainly gotten those in HP, but it has also been a journey of personal growth for a lonely impoverished little boy. A hero's journey is a series of challenges and transformations as the hero rises to the challenge. But in this case the coming of age story is equally important. And the hero usually lives in those stories since he does actually have to come of age.

Campbell states that the last stage of the hero's journey is to return and pass on what he's learned. In another thread, posters are discussing the monomyth and the journey and what Harry will do to pass on his knowledge.

The coming of age story is important, but theoretically Harry will be coming of age (literally) in the wizarding world in the 7th book in the summer before his 7th year. This means that all bets are off and that a.) he is no longer under the Dursley's protection and b.) he is considered a full-fledged adult in the wizarding world, which could arguably indicate that Book 7 is no longer part of a coming of age story but now part of the hero's journey. As in, this is the part where he girds his loins and goes to the ends of the earth (and possibly beyond the veil) to accomplish his task- the defeat of Voldemort.

JKR has said, again, that while she has been tempted to do so she has made it a point not to kill Harry off before the 7th book, which could mean that she will kill him off in the 7th, after his journey is complete (or at the apex of it). Should Harry defeat Voldemort with love as his weapon, and die in the attempt, the message of his success and the power of love to defeat evil would definitely be worth passing on. Especially given the tone of acrimony between most purebloods and, well, everyone else.

Using convention as an argument that Harry will survive is certainly valid, but I'm open to the possibility that JKR might not follow convention. Besides which, she's obviously got something up her sleeve since she won't spill any details for fear of hatemail :D


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