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-   -   Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5 (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=101059)

Venom3384 March 20th, 2007 11:38 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anabel (Post 4402087)
I want to share a piece of wisdom from my then 7 year old child, when we first read the books together. I'd warned her that she might find them scary, but her reaction was very clear: "Mummy, you said Harry Potter was scary, but it's not - it's funny!" And it is! Despite their darkness, these books are full of humour, not tragedy! And they always end on a light note.

PS Harry's isn't allowed to do magic in the holidays, but the Dursleys don't know that, do they! :eyebrows:


CoS "Proud?" said Harry. "Are you mad? All those times I could have died and I didn't manage it? They'll be furious ..."
And together they walked back through the gateway to the Muggle world.


PoA"Godfather?" spluttered Uncle Vernon. "You haven't got a godfather!"
"Yes, I have," said Harry brightly. He was my mum and dad's best friend. He's a convicted murderer, but he's broken out of wizard prison and he's on the run. He likes to keep in touch with me, though ... keep up with my news ... check I'm happy ..."
And grinning broadly at the look of horror on Uncle Vernon's face, Harry set off towards the station exit, Hedwig ratting along in front of him, for what looked like a much better summer than the last.


GoFHarry gives Fred and George his prize money to open a joke shop.


OotPInstead, he smiled, raised a hand in farewell, turned around and led the way out of the station towards the sunlit street, with Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia and Dudley hurrying along in his wake.


HBPhe felt his heart lift at the thought that there was still one last golden day of peace left to enjoy with Ron and Hermione.


As you see, every book ends on a positive note, often a very funny one, despite the bad things that have happened.

Yeah, and those are fine. There isn't anything wrong with that...but a "And Harry lived happily ever after" ending would be absurd. I love the war she maintains good cheer throughout the books, even after the darkest times, but that's not the same as a happy ending. Even at the end of HBP it's "one LAST golden day of peace," you know?

BurrowGhoul March 20th, 2007 11:43 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Thank you, Anabel! That's just what I needed to hear!

hagrids_wench March 21st, 2007 2:04 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by __JMar__ (Post 4401223)
Don't get me wrong, I would really like the ending to be happy, but it just seems highly unlikely. Granted, the books were originally intended for children and young adults, but that doesn't mean that the ending has to be incredibly happy. I just don't see how after everything we've read, the ending can come out to read as a "happily ever after". :no: I'm not just saying in a literal way either, Harry might live, but that doesn't mean everyone will be happy. They'll definitely be scarred for life, and that alone will be enough to make the ending sad.

I did not really mean that type of happy ending where no one dies and no one suffers the consequences of their actions either bad or good. I was focusing on Harry and whether or not I thought it was or would be a valid death. Obviously if Harry dies it will bean altruistic death something he does for others. But doesn't that make him the child that was born only to be sacrificed or to sacrifice himself? I don't know that that is even a wrong idea but it does seem that Harry ought to at least have the rest of his life to enjoy a world cleansed of evil. I do not expect all to survve the last book it would not be realistic as JKR has shown in other books that people do die. I hope that she also shows that sometimes people live after having accomplished what others felt was impossible. There will always be collateral damage no matter what the odds are in a battle between good and evil. I think there is a good possibility that some main characters that we are really invested in will die. I also think that some characters that we may have sidelined a little are going to come to the for and we will connect with them. I think it is highly possible that Harry will cross the barrier of the veil and see what lies beyonf and I thin he will come back as many fantasy heroes have. I hope he does as I would like to see how she handled that. Anyway we won't know until July. :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4401735)
It's not cynical, I don't think. It's what sets them apart from Voldemort - their willingness to risk it all for people they love. That's a positive message for me, especially combined with what Luna said in OotP (about the Veil and what lies beyond it and all.)

Plus, I don't like the idea that dying = failing. We all die, does that mean we failed? I don't think so.

:lol: I meant this world not theirs. It just seems as though many readers won't be happy unless there are bodies strewn everywhere. But that is just my take on things and probably I am centering on posts that say that and not much else.
As far as failing goes I do not think that death means failure I only think that the Death Eaters,no matter what they do after Voldemort's death, will feel as though Harry's death is a victory for them. I don't think that JKR will leave any victories for the Death Eaters no matter how bittersweet those victories may be.


Quote:

Originally Posted by anabel (Post 4402087)
I want to share a piece of wisdom from my then 7 year old child, when we first read the books together. I'd warned her that she might find them scary, but her reaction was very clear: "Mummy, you said Harry Potter was scary, but it's not - it's funny!" And it is! Despite their darkness, these books are full of humour, not tragedy! And they always end on a light note.

PS Harry's isn't allowed to do magic in the holidays, but the Dursleys don't know that, do they! :eyebrows:


CoS "Proud?" said Harry. "Are you mad? All those times I could have died and I didn't manage it? They'll be furious ..."
And together they walked back through the gateway to the Muggle world.


PoA"Godfather?" spluttered Uncle Vernon. "You haven't got a godfather!"
"Yes, I have," said Harry brightly. He was my mum and dad's best friend. He's a convicted murderer, but he's broken out of wizard prison and he's on the run. He likes to keep in touch with me, though ... keep up with my news ... check I'm happy ..."
And grinning broadly at the look of horror on Uncle Vernon's face, Harry set off towards the station exit, Hedwig ratting along in front of him, for what looked like a much better summer than the last.


GoFHarry gives Fred and George his prize money to open a joke shop.


OotPInstead, he smiled, raised a hand in farewell, turned around and led the way out of the station towards the sunlit street, with Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia and Dudley hurrying along in his wake.


HBPhe felt his heart lift at the thought that there was still one last golden day of peace left to enjoy with Ron and Hermione.


As you see, every book ends on a positive note, often a very funny one, despite the bad things that have happened.

They do don't they? That is one thing that I have really liked about them. I cannot see the last book ending much differently. Maybe with more intensity but surely not disappointingly with a field of bodies the trio included that we have all come to love. At this point I think it a plus that Harry never has to go back to Privet Lane...:lol: Now that! is a victory!

Sile March 21st, 2007 2:12 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
It's not gonna happen no way. Just think of the amount of unhappy children who will be traumatised if their hero was killed (not to mention me). I don't think she'll put him through all he has suffered just to bump him off at the end. "and neither can LIVE while the other survives" Harry can't truly live while LV is alive therefore he can live after

AL_Patterson March 21st, 2007 3:14 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I will not be happy at all. Pretty mad actually. And like you said, MILLIONS of kids are going to be distraught.

TDawg_0016 March 21st, 2007 4:23 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes, I agree, all of the kids who read this series, which is truly meant to be a children's series, would be sad, many of the smaller ones might even cry, causing anger in the parents. But, this fact notwithstanding, it is necessary to look at the morals developed throughout the series. I have no doubt that some of the major characters (hopefully not one of the big 3) will be taken away, but only to stress the fact that war is not without consequence.

Also, this story, unlike the recently rejuvenated works of J.R. Tolkein and C.S. Lewis, does not have a strong Christian undertone as a major piece of its plot. Both the aforementioned adventures have a Chrisitan-like plot, in which one character gives his life (not necessarily to death) in order for the good of ALL others in their respective worlds (Frodo and Gandalf, and Aslan in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe). These stories place much more emphasis on love and the consequences of war, as well as with the emotions involved with the two.

Like to hear any comments or questions about this.

Venom3384 March 21st, 2007 6:17 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
I mean, but if Harry lives wont he be really bitter/traumatized because I figure if he doesn't die then either Ron or Hermoine will adding to the deaths of Sirius and Dumbledore, both of which Harry blames himself for.

Weazleby March 21st, 2007 7:14 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

in which one character gives his life (not necessarily to death) in order for the good of ALL others in their respective worlds (Frodo and Gandalf, and Aslan in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe). These stories place much more emphasis on love and the consequences of war, as well as with the emotions involved with the two.
Interestingly, both Gandalf and Aslan's deaths were only temporary, as they both were "resurrected" by the power of their sacrifice. Death seems relative in those plotlines, as it is a common Christian belief that death is not the end of the story and not a thing to be feared. Which sounds eerily familiar, as Voldemort seems to fear death above all things. In contrast, Harry's greatest fear is not death (or Lord Voldemort) but fear and the loss of hope. So: if Harry does indeed die, who is to say that he doesn't reappear for an encore performance? Although the chances are slim, the series' prescedent is that death is very (very) permanent (remember our wild hopes that Siruis was not dead, just lost?).

Thus my speculations are divided and not very conclusive. His death would be horrible, since he's Harry and I want him to live to be 150 year old and be a wise, Dumbledore-like old man. Buuuttt, Harry's death would support all of the major themes presented throughout the series.
Quote:

I mean, but if Harry lives wont he be really bitter/traumatized because I figure if he doesn't die then either Ron or Hermoine will adding to the deaths of Sirius and Dumbledore, both of which Harry blames himself for.
Do you believe that one of the trio are headed for the gallows in the next book? I'm not so sure, I think the only one on the chopping block is Harry. I am under the impression that Ron and Hermione are pretty safe from being killed off, either way. If Harry dies, they are responsible for maintaining his memory and helping to rebuild the wizarding world, and if Harry lives, they are responsible for living happily ever after (sunset not required).

Venom3384 March 21st, 2007 8:13 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Weazleby (Post 4402723)

Do you believe that one of the trio are headed for the gallows in the next book? I'm not so sure, I think the only one on the chopping block is Harry. I am under the impression that Ron and Hermione are pretty safe from being killed off, either way. If Harry dies, they are responsible for maintaining his memory and helping to rebuild the wizarding world, and if Harry lives, they are responsible for living happily ever after (sunset not required).

I think Harry will die. But I think that if he doesn't then one of the other members of the trio will sadly. But I kinda hope it's Harry since I like Hermoine and Ron more...

Spritey March 21st, 2007 11:26 am

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anabel (Post 4402087)
I want to share a piece of wisdom from my then 7 year old child, when we first read the books together. I'd warned her that she might find them scary, but her reaction was very clear: "Mummy, you said Harry Potter was scary, but it's not - it's funny!" And it is! Despite their darkness, these books are full of humour, not tragedy! And they always end on a light note.

PS Harry's isn't allowed to do magic in the holidays, but the Dursleys don't know that, do they! :eyebrows:


CoS "Proud?" said Harry. "Are you mad? All those times I could have died and I didn't manage it? They'll be furious ..."
And together they walked back through the gateway to the Muggle world.


PoA"Godfather?" spluttered Uncle Vernon. "You haven't got a godfather!"
"Yes, I have," said Harry brightly. He was my mum and dad's best friend. He's a convicted murderer, but he's broken out of wizard prison and he's on the run. He likes to keep in touch with me, though ... keep up with my news ... check I'm happy ..."
And grinning broadly at the look of horror on Uncle Vernon's face, Harry set off towards the station exit, Hedwig ratting along in front of him, for what looked like a much better summer than the last.


GoFHarry gives Fred and George his prize money to open a joke shop.


OotPInstead, he smiled, raised a hand in farewell, turned around and led the way out of the station towards the sunlit street, with Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia and Dudley hurrying along in his wake.


HBPhe felt his heart lift at the thought that there was still one last golden day of peace left to enjoy with Ron and Hermione.


As you see, every book ends on a positive note, often a very funny one, despite the bad things that have happened.

And we'll still have Ron. I know, I'm awkward :D But I think Ron and Hermione will understand that it's up to them to do the "whole new world" dealy and move on with their memories. Heck, I wouldn't even begrudge them a Simba moment :lol: Like Weazleby said:

Quote:

Do you believe that one of the trio are headed for the gallows in the next book? I'm not so sure, I think the only one on the chopping block is Harry. I am under the impression that Ron and Hermione are pretty safe from being killed off, either way. If Harry dies, they are responsible for maintaining his memory and helping to rebuild the wizarding world, and if Harry lives, they are responsible for living happily ever after (sunset not required).
I also think that would be a pretty positive thought; the normal guy and the smart-but-still-normal girl go on to kick *** in Harry's memory, whilst he goes on the next great adventure. And since we're all pretty normal (well, I am, I don't know about any of you), that would be another positive point, you know - look what *we* can do.

However, I still don't know whether I think he'll die properly, temporarily, or not at all (I change my mind a lot), so I'm not sure why I'm debating for one side ^_^

Lillbet March 21st, 2007 5:08 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Yes. But he'll take Voldemort down as well if he does. As an earlier poster said, it will be an altruistic death, which will make it a lot easier to take, imo.

I don't think I'm being cynical, I just don't believe that Harry flying off into the sunset with Ginny on the back of his Firebolt to become the Seeker for the Chudley Cannons would work for the story. As much as it pains me to say it, a happy ending for Harry would tick me off.

A positive ending, however, would be nice. Something along the lines of Harry's death not being in vain, etc.

dubbleB March 21st, 2007 5:32 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Harry'll live for
Emotional reasons: There 's going to be a boom in reservations for children
psychiatrists in Juli when it turns out Harry's dead
Practical reasons: we usually follow Harry and see things happening in Harrys point of view and than it would suddenly change to the point of view of someone else for the last 20-30 pages?
Logical reasons: the prophecy states Harry 'll kill Voldermort or Voldemort kills Harry
option 1 Bittersweet ending ; the reign of terror has stopped but Harry has propably lost someone dear to him
option 2 totally depressing ending ;our hero is gone together with all hope to vanquish the Dark Lord

Lord_Kaine March 21st, 2007 7:07 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillbet (Post 4403219)
A positive ending, however, would be nice. Something along the lines of Harry's death not being in vain, etc.

Agreed, if Harry takes down Voldemort and saves Ron and Hermione, then his death will definately not be in vain. That's one of the messages in the story, there are things worth dying for. Harry knows this, and he wants to make sure that if someone dies, it will be him, not his friends.
Quote:

Originally Posted by dubbleB (Post 4403251)
Harry'll live for
Emotional reasons: There 's going to be a boom in reservations for children
psychiatrists in Juli when it turns out Harry's dead
Practical reasons: we usually follow Harry and see things happening in Harrys point of view and than it would suddenly change to the point of view of someone else for the last 20-30 pages?
Logical reasons: the prophecy states Harry 'll kill Voldermort or Voldemort kills Harry
option 1 Bittersweet ending ; the reign of terror has stopped but Harry has propably lost someone dear to him
option 2 totally depressing ending ;our hero is gone together with all hope to vanquish the Dark Lord

I hope it will not come to those emotional reasons you mentioned, really. Shock and surprise is one thing, but psychiatrists?
As for the practical reasons, well, they have done it before. After Harrys death (if it should happen), it would probably not be many words before the epilogue. The same goes for if he survives.
The logical reasons are the most logical :lol: reason. But Harry could very well die alongside with Voldemort, or after. But then again, he might as well survive, unlogically.
I think option 1 might very well happen. I'll just hope Hermione is not the one to go. That would tick me off the most, seeing as this would be a way to make Harry grieve, but still have his best friend and love interest alive, like a safety net.

My theory is that Harry, if he dies, will somehow sacrifice himself for someone. I just don't see how it will be done. The image of a ruined wasteland, a bright light and the rising sun in the mist is stuck in my head and refuses to leave.

Spritey March 21st, 2007 7:20 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Kaine (Post 4403354)
The image of a ruined wasteland, a bright light and the rising sun in the mist is stuck in my head and refuses to leave.

Oh wow, are you me, by any chance? :blush: Because I've had that kind of scene in my head for months now, and it's such an awesome moment; you know, hopeful and beautiful and optimistic in spite of it all. It also has "Can't take it in" off the Narnia soundtrack playing in the background (which is so going to be my book 7 song, btw) :lol: I'd love it if it ended that way, even though it would reduce me to a sobbing wreck. Though I'm fairly certain that however it ends I'm going to be like that, so maybe I'm not the best judge...

Lord_Kaine March 21st, 2007 7:29 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritey (Post 4403368)
Oh wow, are you me, by any chance? :blush: Because I've had that kind of scene in my head for months now, and it's such an awesome moment; you know, hopeful and beautiful and optimistic in spite of it all. It also has "Can't take it in" off the Narnia soundtrack playing in the background (which is so going to be my book 7 song, btw) :lol: I'd love it if it ended that way, even though it would reduce me to a sobbing wreck. Though I'm fairly certain that however it ends I'm going to be like that, so maybe I'm not the best judge...

Yeah, tell me about it. That ending is kind of the typical "the big evil is destroyed, and the morning sun cleans the ruined valley of its evil" while the survivors straggles to their feet and gets out of the cave or collapsed building. :lol: And there is always alot of mist, for some reason.

I'm pretty sure I'm not you. :blush: Being male and all that. But then again, I've been wrong before.

Lillbet March 21st, 2007 7:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dubbleB (Post 4403251)
Harry'll live for
Emotional reasons: There 's going to be a boom in reservations for children
psychiatrists in Juli when it turns out Harry's dead

Yikes. I don't like your world at all. :p

I think most of the folks who have read the book thus far may be expecting something like this. I know (hope) you're kidding, but I just don't see folks getting as riled up as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubbleB (Post 4403251)
Practical reasons: we usually follow Harry and see things happening in Harrys point of view and than it would suddenly change to the point of view of someone else for the last 20-30 pages?

Yeah, but occasionally the POV has switched and it's worked well. That whole scene with Hermione setting fire to Snape's robes during that first fraught with danger Quidditch match in SS for example.

We'll see. To be honest I haven't the faintest notion how I want Book 7 to play out. At first I thought I wanted the Trio back in school, but that seems a little wrong. But so does the Trio heading to Godric's Hollow, when they don't know how to proceed.

Can't wait for the book! Whatever JKR wrote I will devour with enthusiasm and enjoyment.

nirvanamuse March 21st, 2007 7:48 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
i want harry to die (as horrid as that sounds) because any other ending would be unfinnished and would leave a hundread thousand questions eg. did he get married, did he become an auror, what are his kids (if he has any) going to be like.
i want him to die because that will make an ending that is worthy of the books, i want harry to go out with a bang though.
then again i do have to aqdmit that all the books have ended on a high note so i doubt it will be any different with this one.

Spritey March 21st, 2007 7:54 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Kaine (Post 4403381)
Yeah, tell me about it. That ending is kind of the typical "the big evil is destroyed, and the morning sun cleans the ruined valley of its evil" while the survivors straggles to their feet and gets out of the cave or collapsed building. :lol: And there is always alot of mist, for some reason.

Well, I am a Buffy fan. Which reminds me, I really loved that ending... I would like something like that for HP. Though only two of the main characters died, so I guess that depends on your perspective...

Quote:

Yeah, but occasionally the POV has switched and it's worked well. That whole scene with Hermione setting fire to Snape's robes during that first fraught with danger Quidditch match in SS for example.
I think we'll get Ron's POV if Harry dies. In their first fight as a Trio (the troll), there's a part from Ron's perspective which makes me think it would go that way.

Edit: Numbers and me don't mix *sigh*

Venom3384 March 21st, 2007 9:39 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nirvanamuse (Post 4403409)
i want harry to die (as horrid as that sounds) because any other ending would be unfinnished and would leave a hundread thousand questions eg. did he get married, did he become an auror, what are his kids (if he has any) going to be like.
i want him to die because that will make an ending that is worthy of the books, i want harry to go out with a bang though.
then again i do have to aqdmit that all the books have ended on a high note so i doubt it will be any different with this one.

Yeah, it's sad, but Harry's death seems like it would be the most complete ending doesn't it?

MClissa March 21st, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5
 
Okay, so after finishing HBP my very first thought was: "oh no, Harry is a Horocrux". However, while recently thinking about it I realized Harry CAN'T be because why would Voldemort be so determined to kill him? Why would he voluntarily put part of his precious soul into the boy he planned on killing? It doesn't make sense.


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