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dweaselqueen August 16th, 2007 11:38 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

originally posted by wickedwickedboy
Well I respect your reasoning. However, I personally think it more likely that James continued to trust Remus or Remus would not have been so quick to point out to Harry that James always trusted his friends at whatever cost. (paraphrase). Remus also said that Lily always saw the best in people, so that would seem to rule out her distrust as well. We already know Sirius distrusted Remus and visa versa.
I agree. I don't think James would've ever distrusted Remus. If Sirius ever brought it up to him, he would've ignored it. And Lily, like you said, saw the best in everyone. She would've been like James, and trusted the Maruaders without question.

Quote:

originally posted by Rell
It seems to be a very obvious tactic to me - get Peter to subtly suggest that Remus has been acting strange and perhaps cannot be trusted to take suspicion off of himself, the true spy.
That makes a lot of sense IMO. We know that Peter was a lot smarter then everyone gave him credit for. I don't think he would've tried to spread the suspicions to James, who would never have listened, but it would make sense to try to spread it to Sirius. Poor Remus.

wickedwickedboy August 16th, 2007 11:46 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dweaselqueen (Post 4728286)
That makes a lot of sense IMO. We know that Peter was a lot smarter then everyone gave him credit for. I don't think he would've tried to spread the suspicions to James, who would never have listened, but it would make sense to try to spread it to Sirius. Poor Remus.

I respect this theory, but I am not sure that Peter would even subtly try and do such a thing considering the touchy circumstances he was in. If he hinted something to Sirius or Remus about the other, I am sure they would have been suspicious because at that point they were all suspecting each other (DD said someone close, could have been any).

But assuming Peter did do something of the sort, I think he would do it both with Sirius and with Remus - try to drive them apart, because if Sirius was the only one suspecting at the time I think Remus would have spoken to James about it and James to Sirius. So if it did occur, and Peter was smart enough to try and to pull it off, I he'd be wise enough to realize that he had to do it to both of them, one against the other so they didn't talk to one another or James about it.

RemusLupinFan August 17th, 2007 12:04 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4728314)
But assuming Peter did do something of the sort, I think he would do it both with Sirius and with Remus

That's what I always assumed he'd done. I think he'd have been capable of subtly trying to influence both Sirius and Remus against one another. It would have worked to his advantage because with Sirius suspecting Remus and Remus suspecting Sirius, James would have been more likely to agree to Sirius' plan to switch to Peter if there weren't suspicions against him from anyone. Peter is very apt at deception, as we see him frame Sirius and as evidenced by the fact that his animagus form is a rat. So I don't think it's too much of a stretch to speculate that he could have sown seeds of distrust between Sirius and Remus. Plus, he had several factors he could have reminded each one of in trying to discredit one to the other. For instance, I agree that Remus may not have been around much during that period for whatever reason (Order work or other reasons), so I'm sure Peter would have reminded Sirius of that fact. And to Remus, Peter may have brought up the werewolf prank incident that Sirius played on Snape and the fact that he wasn't thinking about the fact that Remus' secret could have been exposed during that time. So in this way, Wormtail could have tried to subtly get Sirius to distrust Remus and vice versa.

Yoana August 17th, 2007 11:39 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sweets7 (Post 4727847)
That was the point though; Teddy would never have had a normal childhood had they lost that battle. Tonks, Lupin and Teddy would have been on the run, and in hiding for years. He probably could have never played outside, never gone to school, nothing. It is made apparent at the start of the novel, that Voldemort and his like wanted rid of them. Eventually they would have been found, and all three would have been killed.

That is onlycertain if the battle was doomed without them, which wasn't the case. There were many poeple, I'm sure, who stayed at home with their children and prayed. Were they cowards, or were they resigning to the fact that their children would never have normal childhood because they didn't join the battle? The thing is, they weren't crucial to that battle, and that grim fate you've described was not certain for Teddy if they had stayed with him.

But, as I said, that is just my personal opinion, and I agree with the opposite opinion, actually, because it's a very well supported one, and I can understand the reasoning behind it. I can understand why they did it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rell (Post 4727927)
I think that this is a choice that no one can make for someone else, and that both sides have both merit and grief attached. In DH, Lupin made his descision, and I do not look down on him for that.

Oh, no, neither do I! I'm not trying to make their choice for them, or wag a finger. I'm just saying that this is what I feel a parent should have done, but I respect Tonks' and Lupin's choice nonetheless, it was a brave one, and I'm sure they did it for Teddy's future. I just favour the alternative here, that's just me, and I don't think anyone should be of my opinion at all.

sweets7 August 17th, 2007 4:37 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoana (Post 4729235)
That is onlycertain if the battle was doomed without them, which wasn't the case. There were many poeple, I'm sure, who stayed at home with their children and prayed. Were they cowards, or were they resigning to the fact that their children would never have normal childhood because they didn't join the battle? The thing is, they weren't crucial to that battle, and that grim fate you've described was not certain for Teddy if they had stayed with him.

It wasn't certain, because we were never in doubt that 'good' would win out. I mean seriously, did anyone really think that Voldemort and his cronies would win? If they had lost that fate was certain, Bellatrix would have delighted in tracking them down. The characters obviously weren’t sure and neither knew how they would contribute to the battle.

Sure lots of people stayed at home, but they weren't Lupin and Tonks: who were voluntarily members of the order of the phoenix, where as Slughorn says 'the mortality rate was huge'. I guess it just depends on the type of person you are. I guess Teddy had to accept and understand that as he grew up.

OldLupin August 17th, 2007 4:44 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Lupin and Tonks were members of the order and close to a lot of the people fighting in that battle. If they didn't stand and fight then, when they had the chance to affect the outcome, they would likely never have a chance to stand and fight again. They were both skilled and both very involved. For Lupin, it was as much about securing Teddy's and Tonk's futures as defending the rest of the order, the DA and the students who would be fighting. For Tonks, Bellatrix was coming for her either way, Remus knew that, and she had a better chance standing during this battle than waiting for her and a band of DE's to come and kill her, her husband and her son if the battle were lost. In some ways they had to fight while they had the chance, waiting at home wasn't really an option.

jewelledhunter August 17th, 2007 6:23 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

I don't think he's matured truly, but only because he was a pretty solid character already. Since PoA, we've known that Remus John Lupin is a kind person, with lots of empathy. He's a truly loyal friend. However, we also know he has an inferiority complex; he believes that he is inferior to everyone because of his condition. He leaves his friends a lot of leeway because he is so desperate to be accepted and instead of confronting problems, because of his condition, he believes it is better if he runs. In a way, he is showing courage, but also blindness.

He's sort of like Harry, because both of them have empathy and are generally kind to most people. Both have an inferiority complex. However, Harry judges his friends the same as other people and isn't afraid of telling them off, and he tries to confront problems head-on. To the very end, Remus stayed the same character: essentially kind, but afraid of rejection.

Sirius Black- I think the two had a close relationship. They were the only two Marauders left and they already had a good friendship before Sirius was accused of killing Lily and James. Nearly killing Peter Pettigrew and Sirius being locked up in Grimmauld Place would have made them good friends, maybe on the level Sirius and James once were.

Fenrir Greyback- If Remus ever hated someone, it would probably be Fenrir Greyback, right below Voldemort.

Alastor Moody- They wouldn't have been friends, but they would have had deep respect for one another. Alastor would have admired Remus for his courage and his self-sacrifice: Remus is working for a society that rejected him and will continue to reject his kind. Remus would have admired Alastor for his courage and toughness.

James Potter- Friends. Really good friends. Both were intensely loyal to each other and I bet Remus would have been depressed after James and Lily's deaths. We don't have too much information about them though...

Lily Evans-I've always thought that Lily might have had a crush on Remus and Remus on Lily. I know that Severus/Lily is canon now, but Remus seemed like somebody Lily would have liked: doesn't bully, bookworm, shy, sensitive, kind...Since I have no proof of that, I think that the two would have been close friends, because of the similarities in personality.

Peter Pettigrew- Conflicting feelings. Peter must have been a friend one time, but his treachery makes it hard for Lupin to remain friends with him, of course. But Remus must have wondered what caused Peter to join Voldemort and what Peter was thinking during his servitude.

Severus Snape- Respect initially, but then he probably didn't like Severus for killing Dumbledore. I like to believe that if he had survived the war and heard Severus' story, he would have liked Severus a great deal more.

Harry Potter- Sirius came dangerously close to calling Harry James, but I think Remus treated Harry like a separate person. He definitely saw the resemblance, but he treated Harry like an adult, never hiding anything, but also treated Harry as someone separate from James Potter. I don't think Harry ever appreciated that.



2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?


Lupin and Tonks never felt like a true romance. For me, at least Bill and Fleur showed signs of flirting in GoF but Lupin and Tonks seemed out of the blue. But in their circumstances, I believe yes, he made the right decision to marry her if they truly loved each other. At least they could enjoy a year of marriage together. And although I disagree with the way Harry yelled at Lupin, I think Harry did the right thing in trying to convince Lupin to return home. He didn't want Lupin to be seen as a coward. He knew that Lupin was trying to be brave in trying to protect his family from the brand of a werewolf's family, but Lupin needed to stay with his family and not give them the illusion and the rest of their friends that Lupin had betrayed them.

3. Why didnít Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

He's a werewolf and he probably thought Harry would be suspicious of him, if he just suddenly started to send owls about his friendship with James.

4. What was Lupinís role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

I think that Lupin was already playing a central role in the first war with his connections to the werewolves. Fenrir Greyback was already playing a key role so it seems fitting that the Light side had their werewolf to try to convince werewolves not to believe in Voldemort's lies.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

I don't believe it's a feeling of right or wrong in Remus' case. It was his personality. He knew he had a kid and wife, but at the same time, he felt a debt to Harry because James had been such a good friend. Add the fact that Greyback and Voldemort were wreaking havor and Remus probably told his wife to stay put and then went off to help Harry. He knew that if Teddy was orphaned, at least Teddy would be safe with a loving family: the Weasleys, Harry, and Hermione would be willing to love and take care of him. In a way, going out to fight alongside Tonks was showing his trust in the future generation. He trusted Harry and his friends would create a safer world and that Teddy, despite being an orphan, would be ultimately better off than if his parents hid.

wickedwickedboy August 17th, 2007 6:40 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Actually, Remus left Teddy with his mum. He didn't plan to leave Teddy an orphan. Tonks made the decision that she wished to fight for the cause (and also I think there was a little bit of fighting along side her Love and ensuring he was all right) which would render Teddy an orphan if she and Lupin both died.

But I think Lupin's character shows that he fully understood the desire to fight for the good cause and in the end I don't think he would have felt that Tonk's made the wrong decision.

Lord Godric August 18th, 2007 12:43 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
I was really upset with Lupin when he thought of abandoning Tonks and Teddy, but I can understand why he thought of it. I don't understand, however, why Lupin still feels the way he does about life and his "furry little problem." I would think that once he came to Hogwarts expecting to never have any friends, and instead found a great group of friends that not only coped with his "problem" but made it better that he would understand people could look past the fact he was a werewolf, but he didn't. I understand that he can't get jobs very often, and there are people like Umbridge out there; but I don't understand why Lupin, after growing up with loving and caring friends hasn't been able to realize that his problem doesn't define who he is.

wickedwickedboy August 18th, 2007 1:01 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Godric (Post 4730572)
I was really upset with Lupin when he thought of abandoning Tonks and Teddy, but I can understand why he thought of it. I don't understand, however, why Lupin still feels the way he does about life and his "furry little problem." I would think that once he came to Hogwarts expecting to never have any friends, and instead found a great group of friends that not only coped with his "problem" but made it better that he would understand people could look past the fact he was a werewolf, but he didn't. I understand that he can't get jobs very often, and there are people like Umbridge out there; but I don't understand why Lupin, after growing up with loving and caring friends hasn't been able to realize that his problem doesn't define who he is.

After the law passed he couldn't get a job at all. He no longer had his four friends once he turned 21 (until then from what we know, he was not unhappy). He was shunned by society after that time (when he left the first Order at 21) and relegated to an outcast.

That means that he went to buy a newspaper and the person in front of him is chatting happily with the vendor and when he reaches the front of the line and the dude knows he is a werewolf, he won't even look him in the eye, let alone chat with him. That type of thing gets old very fast - it is worse when someone is treating you friendly and chats with you and THEN finds out your a werewolf and suddenly you get the treatment I described above. And all for something about yourself that you can't help.

I don't think Lupin's attitude in POA showed him to be a person who has let his furry little problem define who he is. He is outgoing, friendly, cheerful and comforting as a teacher. Even after Snape told his condition to still a larger portion of the world on the day he left Hogwarts, he attempts to be cordial with Snape in OOTP. He doesn't allow the problem to get him down, the problem defines itself as a result of society's outlook and behavior.

This is typified in POA by Ron in the S. Shack. He was friendly with Lupin; then he finds out he is a werewolf. Ron gets hurt and Lupin moves to help him. Ron says: "get away from me werewolf". Lupin freezes. Then shakes it off and continues speaking. But that is what he faces from society all of the time - instant backlash for merely being a werewolf..

Now in OOTP he finally is surrounded by order members and we see him in far better spirits. Molly, Kingsley other order members and Harry & friends all treat him with respect, knowing he is a werewolf. He doesn't get out in society much tho, because he is working for the Order.

But marriage means Tonks will now be treated as I have described above, merely for being his wife (we saw the DE - pureblood/half blood reaction to their marriage in chapter 1 DH and how they regard Tonks after her marriage). Well they are a reflection of society.

Teddy, he fears will be a werewolf and live the life he has. Even if not, he will be shunned by association.

Remus was devastated at the thought. But he finally came to terms with having a family and dealing with what would come in life. So JKR illustrated all of this throughout the series and finished it off on a good note in DH - Remus' acceptance of dealing with family life bravely, despite his furry little problem. Basically accepting the cards that life had dealt him.

Lord Godric August 18th, 2007 1:24 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4730611)
After the law passed he couldn't get a job at all. He no longer had his four friends once he turned 21 (until then from what we know, he was not unhappy). He was shunned by society after that time (when he left the first Order at 21) and relegated to an outcast.

That means that he went to buy a newspaper and the person in front of him is chatting happily with the vendor and when he reaches the front of the line and the dude knows he is a werewolf, he won't even look him in the eye, let alone chat with him. That type of thing gets old very fast - it is worse when someone is treating you friendly and chats with you and THEN finds out your a werewolf and suddenly you get the treatment I described above. And all for something about yourself that you can't help.

I don't think Lupin's attitude in POA showed him to be a person who has let his furry little problem define who he is. He is outgoing, friendly, cheerful and comforting as a teacher. Even after Snape told his condition to still a larger portion of the world on the day he left Hogwarts, he attempts to be cordial with Snape in OOTP. He doesn't allow the problem to get him down, the problem defines itself as a result of society's outlook and behavior.

This is typified in POA by Ron in the S. Shack. He was friendly with Lupin; then he finds out he is a werewolf. Ron gets hurt and Lupin moves to help him. Ron says: "get away from me werewolf". Lupin freezes. Then shakes it off and continues speaking. But that is what he faces from society all of the time - instant backlash for merely being a werewolf..

Now in OOTP he finally is surrounded by order members and we see him in far better spirits. Molly, Kingsley other order members and Harry & friends all treat him with respect, knowing he is a werewolf. He doesn't get out in society much tho, because he is working for the Order.

But marriage means Tonks will now be treated as I have described above, merely for being his wife (we saw the DE - pureblood/half blood reaction to their marriage in chapter 1 DH and how they regard Tonks after her marriage). Well they are a reflection of society.

Teddy, he fears will be a werewolf and live the life he has. Even if not, he will be shunned by association.

Remus was devastated at the thought. But he finally came to terms with having a family and dealing with what would come in life. So JKR illustrated all of this throughout the series and finished it off on a good note in DH - Remus' acceptance of dealing with family life bravely, despite his furry little problem. Basically accepting the cards that life had dealt him.

I agree with most of what you said. But I still don't understand how a real person wouldn't be able to get over it. For 10 or so years of his life, those who knew about his problem didn't shun him, they didn't treat him as an outcast, they embraced his problem if anything. Then the Potters died, Sirius ended up in jail, and Peter was "dead" and he was alone. It stayed this way for about 14 years, and it's not until the end of PoA that we really see how much he despises being a werewolf. In OotP and HBP we see that Lupin distances himself from love and sometimes just friends because he is a werewolf, and DH we see him wanting to leave his child, in fear of it being a werewolf. It just seemed, although you are right with the discrimination, that the more loved he became, and the more friends he had, it made it worse for him. Which I don't understand knowing his past.

wickedwickedboy August 18th, 2007 1:34 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Godric (Post 4730646)
I agree with most of what you said. But I still don't understand how a real person wouldn't be able to get over it. For 10 or so years of his life, those who knew about his problem didn't shun him, they didn't treat him as an outcast, they embraced his problem if anything. Then the Potters died, Sirius ended up in jail, and Peter was "dead" and he was alone. It stayed this way for about 14 years, and it's not until the end of PoA that we really see how much he despises being a werewolf. In OotP and HBP we see that Lupin distances himself from love and sometimes just friends because he is a werewolf, and DH we see him wanting to leave his child, in fear of it being a werewolf. It just seemed, although you are right with the discrimination, that the more loved he became, and the more friends he had, it made it worse for him. Which I don't understand knowing his past.

Well I am not sure I follow you about OOTP and HBP. He was only with friends in those books that we saw and he didn't distance himself from them at all (only Tonks in HBP). He came to dinner, lived at Grimmuald w/ Sirius and chatted with everyone - we have him talking to Bill and Arthur, Molly, Sirius, Harry & Gang and even a long conversation with Hermione on Spew (GoF too). His comments were not sad and remote, he was acting happy. He comforted Harry & Molly (on several occassions) and Tonks as well, remaining fairly cheerful himself growing closer to all of them all the while. His furry little problem wasn't a problem then, so I don't know what you mean exactly by distancing himself. Maybe you could give me an example and I would understand.

In DH he is suffering with issues of marriage and a baby, not just loving 2 more people, that was easy, this was something brand new - spreading his problem to those he loves. That is the point where things grew worse in his mind. He had never spread his problem before (bitten anyone) - this was something that abhored him, understandably. And that is the problem JKR had him resolve in DH together with his overall acceptance of his furry little problem.

PotterGurl08 August 18th, 2007 2:18 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 (Post 4629927)
Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Remus Lupin. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis



1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

3. Why didnít Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

4. What was Lupinís role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

1. I really like Lupin as a character. He's a good person, but he has some major insecurities (due to his fury little problem...). I always felt sorry for him because he was so ashamed of what he was, and failed to realize that to people who loved him, nobody cared what he was. His greatest strength is his love for his friends. Lupin is a good friend who wants the people close to him to be safe; and he is even willing to distance himself from those he loves if he thinks it is best for them. His weakness is that he is not willing to let others love him because he thinks of himself as a monster. He is not secure enough with himself. He has a hard time accepting himself, and thus thinks others have a hard time accepting him as well.
His relationship with:
Sirius Black - best friend. Once he finds out Sirius is innocent, he is glad to get his old friend back because he knows Sirius is one person who definitely accepts him the way he is.

Fenrir Greyback - his worst enemy. Fenrir made him a werewolf and is the reason he feels so miserable about himself. Fenrir basically ruined his life.

Alastor Moody - Lupin respects Moody and surely thinks he is a valuable person to the Order.

James Potter - best friend, just like Sirius. Was clearly devastated by his death, as we can tell from POA.

Lily Evans - a really good friend. I think he loved Lily because she could see the good in him despite his problem (just as James and Sirius). From POA, Lupin gives off the impression that he was very fond of Lily. She had a thing for accepting "outcasts" (eg. Lupin and Snape).

Peter Pettigrew - was once a best friend, but he clearly despises him after finding out the trugh. However, I think he understands why Pettigrew turns out to be a rat, and he knows that it was a bad idea (on James and Sirius' part) to look down on Pettigrew when he was supposed to be a friend.

Severus Snape - Lupin never really had a problem with Snape. I think this is because Snape was an outcast, and Lupin always felt like the ultimate outcast due to the huge secret he was keeping. There was no way that he would have picked on Snape the way James and Sirius did. However, just because of his friendship with James and Sirius, Lupin felt he could never exactly be friends with Snape. Additionally, Slytherins and Gryffindors (with the exception of Snape and Lily) just naturally were not friendly. Snape and Lupin never directly had problems with each other, it was just their circumstances that created the natural barrier between them.

Harry Potter - Lupin loves Harry, but is a bit more reserved in his relationship towards him (prior to DH). Unlike Sirius, Lupin does not assume Harry is a duplicate of James and does not treat him as such. Thus, I think he originally tries to treat Harry just as the typical student (plus he wants to keep his werewolf secret a secret because he does not know how Harry will react). But once the cat is out the bag and he sees that Harry does not judge him for what he is, he sees that Harry is indeed a lot like James and grows to love him like a friend, as well as in a fatherly way and wants to protect him.

2. He does make the right choice in going back to them. They are his family and they needed him, not matter what. He did make the right decision in marrying Tonks. Lupin is a good man and deserves to be loved. I was proud of him in finally allowing himself to be loved.

3. He didn't contact Harry before POA for the same reason he distances himself from everyone else. He knows that the boy who lived is in enough danger as it is and felt that he didn't need a werewolf tagging along with him.
I think it's clear that he probably wanted to contact him. He was his best friends son, so he naturally had love and concern for him. I think that in POA, Lupin tries not to show favoritism towards Harry because being his teacher, he felt it would be innappropiate to develop any special relationship with him. But, he cannot help himself and does anyway.

4. Lupin worked for the Order and gave them an advantage in dealing with the werewolves. Dumbledore probably had him spying on the werewolves.

5. Well, I wish he would have stayed out of the battle because then he would have lived. It broke my heart when he died. But, like he says, he was fighting to make life better for his son, which kind of justifies his actions. I think he initially had faith Harry would make it through, which is why he made Harry Teddy's godfather. He knows Harry will take care of him in case something happened to him and Tonks. Plus, Lupin finally comes to realize that he has friends who love him and who will look after his son if something happened to him. He loved his son, but loved Harry too. I ultimately decided he had to help Harry, and in doing so, he was trying to improve conditions for his son as well.

blue3ski August 18th, 2007 7:35 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Godric (Post 4730646)
I agree with most of what you said. But I still don't understand how a real person wouldn't be able to get over it. For 10 or so years of his life, those who knew about his problem didn't shun him, they didn't treat him as an outcast, they embraced his problem if anything. Then the Potters died, Sirius ended up in jail, and Peter was "dead" and he was alone. It stayed this way for about 14 years, and it's not until the end of PoA that we really see how much he despises being a werewolf. In OotP and HBP we see that Lupin distances himself from love and sometimes just friends because he is a werewolf, and DH we see him wanting to leave his child, in fear of it being a werewolf. It just seemed, although you are right with the discrimination, that the more loved he became, and the more friends he had, it made it worse for him. Which I don't understand knowing his past.

I think wickedwickedboy puts it wonderfully.

Also, let's face it--in human nature, we tend to be more affected by negative comments than positive comments. In the same way Hagrid was so affected by Rita Skeeter's article in GoF and the resulting slight backlash despite Dumbledore's reassurances that many other people still loved him, Remus is affected more deeply by society's negative view of him and his kind than what his friends would tell him about there being nothing wrong with him.

Rell August 19th, 2007 6:34 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Even though Remus was in as optimal a situation as possible at the time, he always felt guilty for the potential danger he had caused people, and he had to keep a big part of his identity a secret from all but his close friends.

mugglesrock August 19th, 2007 3:49 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord_Godric (Post 4730646)
It just seemed, although you are right with the discrimination, that the more loved he became, and the more friends he had, it made it worse for him. Which I don't understand knowing his past.

I don't think Remus was ungrateful for having friends who loved him. I don't believe it was them who played a role in his increasing guilt - it was the constant reminder of who he was and also his own doubts/insecurities. Having more people close to him, meant the possibility of hurting them, and that was something I doubt Remus could bear, if you take the Shrieking Shack incident as an example.

wickedwickedboy August 19th, 2007 4:44 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
We never saw Remus away from the order members in GoF OOTP or HBP - he was not distancing himself; he was happy to be around those who loved and respected him. It was only the issue of marriage/baby that caused him to worry - not distance himself, he remained around everyone - but he worried that he would be passing on his 'furry little problem' to a wife (life of an outcast) and child (life of a werewolf or at least son of a werewolf).

Peg August 19th, 2007 8:39 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4733541)
We never saw Remus away from the order members in GoF OOTP or HBP - he was not distancing himself; he was happy to be around those who loved and respected him. It was only the issue of marriage/baby that caused him to worry - not distance himself, he remained around everyone - but he worried that he would be passing on his 'furry little problem' to a wife (life of an outcast) and child (life of a werewolf or at least son of a werewolf).

Basically, the only reason he considered leaing Tonks and Teddy was to protect them. Like Harry in OotP when he thinks about running away from Grimmauld Place just before Christmas, he's being noble. Which is, in my opinion, the very essence of Remus's character. He wants to protect people in general, no matter the cost to himself. He therefore joined the Order apparently right out of school in spite of much higher casualty rates in the first war, resigns from the only good job he's had because he's endangered the students, and distances people who love him because he's afraid he'll drag them into his problems.

anabel August 19th, 2007 10:46 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mugglesrock (Post 4733469)
I don't think Remus was ungrateful for having friends who loved him.

... on the contrary, Jo says he was overly grateful and tended to cut them too much slack out because he was so glad that someone actually wanted to be with him.

sweets7 August 19th, 2007 10:51 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by anabel (Post 4734461)
... on the contrary, Jo says he was overly grateful and tended to cut them too much slack out because he was so glad that someone actually wanted to be with him.

That makes me so very sad. That he was so very delighted that people actually liked him.:no:


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