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-   -   Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=107895)

MinervasCat April 8th, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but, I didn't start picking up that Lupin was a werewolf until Snape's assignment to the DADA class. Then, I still wasn't sure. I didn't even pick up on the full moon bogart until I re-read the book. I wondered why a glowing orb, or, however JKR described it, would scare him. Duh! The fact that he kept taking "sick days" every months should have told me something. I was more absorbed in the "escaped murderer" line of the plot, I guess.

I had no clue about Sirius and thought that Lupin was a Voldemort plant to help him when I started reading the scene at the Shrieking Shack. I really thought he had come to kill Harry.

Slartibartfast April 8th, 2010 4:21 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
I saw the film before i read the book. I kinda thought something was weird because of his name. "Lupin?? HMMMM..." Then i saw the boggart scene and was all "oh HO!" So yeah, i figured it out. Since all of that was in the book, id say it counts. The clues are really in your face, but the reveal (like someone else pointed out) isnt the fact Lupin was a werewolf at all.

ignisia April 8th, 2010 4:23 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SwedishSkinJer (Post 5520315)
Did Rowling treat the reveal of Lupin's condition properly? Was she aiming for a surprise and, if so, would you say that there were too many significant hints?

I first read PoA when I was 12, and I was surprised. I think that's what JKR is aiming for: for little kids who don't catch these hints to be surprised and then look back and figure out all these hints. I don't believe she considered her adult readers-- after all, by that time, HP was gaining some popularity, but it wasn't as widespread among adults as it is today.

ccollinsmith April 8th, 2010 4:24 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halfbreedlover (Post 5520595)
I agree. I think he's reviewing it too much as someone with an English degree. He's not keeping in mind the target audience IMO.

:shrug: I was 11 when I read PoA for the first time. I knew very little about Latin roots at the time, so I really did not see the werewolf thing coming at all. I did not see Sirius being innocent. Honestly, everything revealed in the Shrieking Shack came as a complete shock to me.

Great for this guy that he realized Sirius was innocent so early on, and that Lupin was a werewolf- I didn't though. I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one who didn't.

I think Rowling's clues about Lupin were perfect.

I commented on the Harry thread, but I found the review to be arrogant, juvenile, and self-important. It is not, imo, an exemplary essay for someone proclaiming himself to be an English major.

As for the Lupin comments... well, I knew before reading the book that Lupin was a werewolf, and I probably would have gotten it from the clues had I not known. (It's not just Lupin, it's also Remus - who was suckled by a she-wolf!).

BUT if I had gotten it, it would not have been because I'm more brilliant-than-thou. It would just be because I'm a well-read adult. It's not exactly a cause for proclaiming one's own incredible brilliance... and then using that claim as an opportunity to trash the author.

The book has a dual audience - the kid audience and the adult audience. IMO it is not poor writing on JKR's part to include elements that will surprise young readers while providing an inside joke to adult readers - as the Lupin/werewolf plot does.

Slartibartfast April 8th, 2010 4:31 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

I commented on the Harry thread, but I found the review to be arrogant, juvenile, and self-important. It is not, imo, an exemplary essay for someone proclaiming himself to be an English major.
Exactly. Anyone who drops the Cluster F-Bomb like that cannot be taken too seriously.

Quote:

BUT if I had gotten it, it would not have been because I'm more brilliant-than-thou. It would just be because I'm a well-read adult. It's not exactly a cause for proclaiming one's own incredible brilliance... and then using that claim as an opportunity to trash the author.
This. When i saw the movie, my boyfriend at the time also commented how he figured Lupin was a werewolf. (he, too, hadnt read the books until later on) Anyone with any real sense of wordplay would guess it. That blog is just a bunch of pretentious noise from someone who apparently thought he would look cool by bashing the author.

chaosman April 8th, 2010 5:18 am

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ccollinsmith (Post 5520625)
BUT if I had gotten it, it would not have been because I'm more brilliant-than-thou. It would just be because I'm a well-read adult. It's not exactly a cause for proclaiming one's own incredible brilliance... and then using that claim as an opportunity to trash the author.

Very well said.

MistressofRaven May 3rd, 2010 9:56 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
From the Snape thread http://www.cosforums.com/showthread....28#post5531228

Quote:

Originally Posted by leah49 (Post 5531236)
When? Where? What?

When he didn't take the potion Snape made for him and transformed into a werewolf. That was very irresponsible of him and could have had horrible results.

leah49 May 3rd, 2010 10:08 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
I think you are putting more into this than what is there. Lupin didn't just decide not to take the potion and then go outside. He didn't just forget and go about his day. If I recall correctly, he saw Padfoot drag Ron into the Whomping Willow. It was all about Sirius, Wormtail, and the trio. It was a rescue mission of sorts as well as getting to the bottom of Womtail. I don't think from this specific episode one can say he is irresponsible and puts others in danger.

MistressofRaven May 3rd, 2010 10:11 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
^^ I see your point.

codenameblue June 16th, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MinervasCat (Post 5520622)
Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but, I didn't start picking up that Lupin was a werewolf until Snape's assignment to the DADA class. Then, I still wasn't sure. I didn't even pick up on the full moon bogart until I re-read the book. I wondered why a glowing orb, or, however JKR described it, would scare him. Duh! The fact that he kept taking "sick days" every months should have told me something. I was more absorbed in the "escaped murderer" line of the plot, I guess.

I had no clue about Sirius and thought that Lupin was a Voldemort plant to help him when I started reading the scene at the Shrieking Shack. I really thought he had come to kill Harry.

Me too! Haha.

eliza101 June 16th, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leah49 (Post 5531270)
I think you are putting more into this than what is there. Lupin didn't just decide not to take the potion and then go outside. He didn't just forget and go about his day. If I recall correctly, he saw Padfoot drag Ron into the Whomping Willow. It was all about Sirius, Wormtail, and the trio. It was a rescue mission of sorts as well as getting to the bottom of Womtail. I don't think from this specific episode one can say he is irresponsible and puts others in danger.

And let's not forget that Snape did not take the potion to him till if was quite late.

UselessCharmMaster June 17th, 2010 2:57 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliza101 (Post 5549636)
And let's not forget that Snape did not take the potion to him till if was quite late.

Late? Sorry, but I can't recall any mention of the timeline there.

codenameblue June 17th, 2010 3:06 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
I was under the impression that Snape saw the Marauder's Map upon bringing the potion to Lupin, and promptly left the potion on Lupin's desk to follow them into the Whomping Willow.

TreacleTartlet June 17th, 2010 3:22 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Snape only took the Wolfsbane Potion to Lupin, because Lupin had forgotten to take it.
"You forgot to take your Potion tonight, so I took a gobletful along. And very lucky I did...lucky for me, I mean. Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight." (Snape, PoA, The Servant of Lord Voldemort)

I doubt if it took more than 20/30 minutes or so to get into the passageway leading to the shack from observing Ron being dragged in by Sirius. So, it looks to me as though Lupin had already forgotten about taking his potion before heading off to the Shack.

Anyway, I see it as being Lupin's responsibility to make sure he took the Potion, and not Snape's.

ccollinsmith June 17th, 2010 8:55 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliza101 (Post 5549636)
And let's not forget that Snape did not take the potion to him till if was quite late.

According to the text, it was after Lupin forgot to take his potion that Snape brought him a gobletful - indicating that it was Lupin's responsibility, not Snape's, to see to it that Lupin took the potion Snape had brewed for him. In other words, Snape grew concerned when Lupin did not take his potion, and he went out of his way to get the goblet to Lupin.

And as for lateness... it would have been a little after sundown/dinnertime. That was the time scheduled for the execution of Buckbeak. The events at the Whomping Willow/Shrieking Shack took place shortly thereafter.

LoonyForMoony June 17th, 2010 9:05 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CC
In other words, Snape grew concerned when Lupin did not take his potion, and he went out of his way to get the goblet to Lupin.

In that case, it seems rather odd that neither goblet or potion were forthcoming in the scene that followed. Instead, Snape went out of his way to bind Lupin so tightly that he lost circulation in his hands. I know you may disagree, but that really doesn't look like extreme concern for his colleague's health to me... :)

eliza101 June 17th, 2010 9:11 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
I really don't understand why it has to be either Remus' fault or Snape's fault. Because of the circumstances they both forgot. It was understandable in that set of particular circumstances.

Yoana June 17th, 2010 9:22 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eliza101 (Post 5550440)
I really don't understand why it has to be either Remus' fault or Snape's fault. Because of the circumstances they both forgot. It was understandable in that set of particular circumstances.

I sign under this with both hands. :tu:

ccollinsmith June 17th, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LoonyForMoony (Post 5550434)
In that case, it seems rather odd that neither goblet or potion were forthcoming in the scene that followed. Instead, Snape went out of his way to bind Lupin so tightly that he lost circulation in his hands. I know you may disagree, but that really doesn't look like extreme concern for his colleague's health to me... :)

Hi LFM! :huggles: Good to see you on the threads!

I was answering the (I believe inaccurate) point that Snape was "quite late" in bringing the goblet to Lupin. According to the text, it was not Snape's responsibility to bring the goblet to Lupin. He did so after Lupin missed his potion. From the fact that he went out of his way to do something that was not his responsibility, I think it is safe to assume that Snape was concerned - at the very least for the safety of the people at Hogwarts, if not for Lupin specifically.

Now, as for Lupin :D... I'd have to read the passage again to determine whether he had already missed the potion and then saw the activity at the Whomping Willow and went running off, or whether he missed the potion and Snape had to bring it to him because he went to the Whomping Willow. I think we both agree that as soon as Lupin and Snape saw what was happening on the Marauders Map, they both went running off to the Whomping Willow and the Shrieking Shack.

So what does the timeline look like to you in terms of Lupin? Did he forget to take his potion and then go to the Whomping Willow? Or did he forget to take his potion because of what he saw happening at the Whomping Willow?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eliza101
I really don't understand why it has to be either Remus' fault or Snape's fault. Because of the circumstances they both forgot. It was understandable in that set of particular circumstances.

I probably agree. I'd have to look at Remus' timeline, but I think it's likely that the reason he missed his potion was because of the circumstances.

leah49 June 17th, 2010 9:27 pm

Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis
 
Well, Snape does brew the potion, but yes, it was Lupin that forgot. But, Snape had the potion so he could have given it to Lupin, but it does not say in the text that he does.


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