Chamber of Secrets

Chamber of Secrets (http://www.cosforums.com/index.php)
-   Legilimency Studies (http://www.cosforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163)
-   -   Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=107881)

hermy_weasley2 July 13th, 2007 12:17 am

Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Peter Pettigrew. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis

While he didn't have too large a role in Deathly Hallows we finally know the fate of Peter Pettigrew
  • Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
  • What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
  • Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
  • Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

padfootandme July 24th, 2007 4:44 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
1. Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
Well, it seems like Peter was not going to stop until Harry actually mentioned it, but I think that if Harry was really close to dying, Peter would have realized it and let up.

2. What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Definately fear, no doubt in my mind.

3. Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
Wormtail probably didn't think anything of it at the time, but the hand, a magic hand, is what ended up killing him. If he didn't have that magic hand, he might not have killed himself, but just refrained from killing Harry.

4. Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
He was probably still living with the fear that Voldemort was out there, and he wanted to keep up a disguise. If he betrayed Ron and constantly ran away, finding home with other people, especially Slytherins, he might not have been the first one to return to Voldemort.

HMN July 26th, 2007 2:02 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I have to say how wrong I was about Peter's role in DH. I was certain he was the one who loved Lily, that he finally gave up the secret in exchange for Lily's life, that he actually had the remorse that Snape claimed to have. That he might even show his Gryffindor bravery and stand up and kill Nagini. Boy how wrong I was! This is probably the last time I will post on this despicable character. I am done with him.

1. Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him? I don't think he wanted to remember - he has shown that he cares more about himself than others in the past - and I think he was displaying that behavior again.

2. What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear? Fear. As Dumbledore says, perhaps they sort too early. I think Snape took Peter's place in Slytherin and Peter took Snape's place in Gryffindor.

3. Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him? I hate to give Voldemort any kind of credit - but the forsight to place that magic in the hand is quite good. That if the hand betrays Voldemort, the hand would betray its owner.

4. Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?
Peter did not develop through the series. He made poor decisions about the kind of life he wanted - he was too interested in following and never once did we see him work on who he was or who he wanted to be as a person. Over time he lost all respect for himself and ceased to grow or develop. He wanted something he didn't need or deserve (power) and essentially sold his soul in exchange for it.

Beatlesrule July 27th, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
[*]Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

It really doesn't seem so because he gives no indication that he's going to stop choking Harry until he mentions it. Also, the book says that Peter seemed as "shocked" as Harry did that his grip slackened on Harry's throat.
[*]What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

I think it was definitely fear and also a bit of greed thrown in (thinking he'd be rewarded if he showed his loyalty.)
[*]Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

Yes, as HMN said it seems very insightful of LV to give Wormtail that magical hand. I guess he figured that if Wormy would betray his best friends he would eventually betray LV too.
[*]Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

No, I don't think Peter developed at all during the series. He remains a pathetic figure throughout the series in my eyes. He never seemed to show any true remorse for his actions.

Hes July 27th, 2007 3:28 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

No obviously from how he behaved it doesn't seem that he was willing to remember that Harry saved his life. I was quite surprised that he didn't think of it himself, always thought that he would feel remorse.


What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

Maybe fear played a part in the beginning, but I also think that his loyalty had grown. The situation in which the Magical world was, it seems that Peter had little to fear from people that wanted to have him punished. As a member of the inner circle he was protected by Voldemort's power. But I think he must truly have believed in Voldemort to stay with him too.


Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

It seems that Voldemort never completely trusted Wormtail, that's why Voldemort manipulated the hand into killing him when it detected some guilt and remorse. It's obvious that Wormtail didn't know that, he thought it a reward. I think he must have felt devastated that Voldemort didn't trust him after all.

Aeris_Cymru July 27th, 2007 4:27 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
[*]Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?
I very much doubt it. Peter was out for himself. By trying to kill Harry he wanted to show LV that he deserved to be his "sidkick" (for want of a better phrase)

[*]What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
Fear, but i think not so much of LV but of Lupin and Sirius, not to mention Harrys, reactions to him. I'm pretty sure that both L and S would have loved to extinquish his life as he had done to Lily and James

[*]Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?
I think he felt he was being rewarded. However, it was a bit of a "back-handed" reward after all. I think LV knew that Wormtail couldn't be trusted.

[*]Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

I don't think he really did develop. He was still the same person, with the same "turncoat" values. His decision to bite Goyle...well i think that was because he was in character as Scabbers, and thats what Ron (as a Gryffindor) would want.

Criccos July 27th, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Would Peter have remembered that he had a life debt to Harry if Harry had not managed to remind him?

No, I didn't get that impression while reading the book. I was a bit disappointed with it because I had loved to see just a little bit of remorse and courage from Peter.

What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?

Fear, no talk about it. I think it's absolutely clear that the only person he cared about was himself, and staying by Voldemort's side was his only chance to survive the war.

Voldemort "gifted" Wormtail with a silver hand. How much of an impact if any did this have on him?

I have to agree with HMN here, it was very, very clever done by Voldemort to give Peter that hand. While Peter thought it was a gesture of gratitude from Voldemort it was just a way to make sure that Peter would stay loyal to him.

Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

No, I wouldn't say he did. He was the same coward through all the books. I can't understand how the sorting hat could place him into Gryffindor since he's not brave nor loyal. I don't know why he bite Goyle, probably he just wanted to do Ron a favour.

xyrax July 29th, 2007 5:58 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
One thing that kind of bugs me is that Peter didn't really show his Gryffindor side at all. I mean, his bravest time was when he was working for the Order, but his becoming a DE and betraying them kind of cancels that out. Before that time he was relatively ungifted and scampered along in the wake of the other Marauders. Afterwards, he hid from the DEs, then rejoined them. And his death wasn't even brave. His hand killed him... a part of him that wasn't even his. I mean, come on! Before I was saying, "Okay, well we haven't seen a brave side of Peter, which means that side of him will be shown in DH." But that time never came. Do you think they sorted him too early? What do you guys think?

popzop July 29th, 2007 6:59 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I got the impression that Peter would have killed Harry, regardless of what he said, even being reminded of his life debt. The "decision" is described as being completely involuntary, more like a twitch. would he really have decided not to kill Harry if he had retained control of his hand? I'm not so sure, but my overall impression was no. He was a coward, showed absolutely no bravery at any point in the books, and feared Voldemort far to much to ever betray him.

Hes July 29th, 2007 8:29 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xyrax (Post 4670308)
One thing that kind of bugs me is that Peter didn't really show his Gryffindor side at all. I mean, his bravest time was when he was working for the Order, but his becoming a DE and betraying them kind of cancels that out. Before that time he was relatively ungifted and scampered along in the wake of the other Marauders. Afterwards, he hid from the DEs, then rejoined them. And his death wasn't even brave. His hand killed him... a part of him that wasn't even his. I mean, come on! Before I was saying, "Okay, well we haven't seen a brave side of Peter, which means that side of him will be shown in DH." But that time never came. Do you think they sorted him too early? What do you guys think?

Well you could say that he was very brave to betray his friends, in a negative way, this took a lot of courage. He had to leave the safe environment of his friends to go to the enemy. But that kind of brave behavior is blotted out by his lack of loyalty.

I agree that his death was far from brave. I think the might have begged for being sorted into Gryffindor (a bit like Harry did when he didn't want to be in Slytherin) and the Sorting Hat gave in. Pettigrew must have been a tough case for the Hat, Ravenclaw definitely not, but the other three houses could have suited him all.

wickedwickedboy July 30th, 2007 5:11 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
I always wondered about the Marauder's trust for Peter. I understand they thought him stupid, but that is just the type of weak character that all villans go after. According to Sirius and later Peter's kind of admission in the shreiking shack, he was with Voldy for a year before selling out the Potters. Whatever made him go? I think Voldy sought out a weak link in the resistence. I think James, Sirius and Remus should have thought of that. But I suppose they figured he was loyal if nothing else...he had always stood by and looked up to them before.

Weird character.

Hes July 30th, 2007 10:51 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy (Post 4672597)
I always wondered about the Marauder's trust for Peter. I understand they thought him stupid, but that is just the type of weak character that all villans go after. According to Sirius and later Peter's kind of admission in the shreiking shack, he was with Voldy for a year before selling out the Potters. Whatever made him go? I think Voldy sought out a weak link in the resistence. I think James, Sirius and Remus should have thought of that. But I suppose they figured he was loyal if nothing else...he had always stood by and looked up to them before.

Weird character.

Maybe they underestimated Pettigrew completely. Like you said the other marauders thought him weak and not brave enough to do anything on his own. They never really thought he would have to courage to walk over to the other side.

As for why he switched sides? We know very little about his background, who his family was, they might have been arrogant pure bloods. What did he do after graduation, he must have had a job next to his Order of the Phoenix work. So maybe one day he was cornered by Death Eaters, who knew he was a weak person. They showed him appreciation, treated him like an equal, introduced him to Voldemort. Pettigrew was always described as someone who was drawn to more powerful persona and easily influenced. So if he was treated well, had the feeling that he was valued, he might have been easily persuaded that he should betray the Potters, I am sure with a little bit of pressure combined with a fear for Voldemort Pettigrew was willing to do that.

Beatifically August 8th, 2007 7:41 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
He stayed with Voldemort mostly out of fear. Peter - as Sirius mentioned in PoA - likes to be in the company of the "big guys" so they can take care of him. Peter is mostly out for himself. He goes to wherever he feels he is safe.

How in the world did Peter get into Gryffindor?

padfootrules August 8th, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beatifically (Post 4703601)
What prevented Peter from fleeing Voldemort's side? "Loyalty" or fear?
He stayed with Voldemort mostly out of fear. Peter - as Sirius mentioned in PoA - likes to be in the company of the "big guys" so they can take care of him. Peter is mostly out for himself. He goes to wherever he feels he is safe.

How in the world did Peter get into Gryffindor?

I know! That rat deserves to be no where. Send him back home....

SSJ_Jup81 August 13th, 2007 2:25 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Well, Peter did voluntarily hang around with a Werewolf, so that's an act of bravery. He also became an unregistered animagus, something else that's dangerous, as it's illegal, but, seeing as how he is a bit on the cowardly side, and seems to look out only for himself, he definitely fits the stereotypical trait of a Slytherin. He could also fit into Hufflepuff since he, seemingly, remains loyal to those who can keep him safe.

That aside, I kind of hate the fact that he didn't remember the life debt himself. I hate the fact that Harry had to remind him. It would've been a whole lot more dramatic, if he was choking Harry, and while doing so, had second thoughts, or said something to show that he was having second thoughts, and then end up choking himself to death.

Emperor_Gestahl August 13th, 2007 8:41 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HesHPfan (Post 4673274)
Maybe they underestimated Pettigrew completely. Like you said the other marauders thought him weak and not brave enough to do anything on his own. They never really thought he would have to courage to walk over to the other side.

As for why he switched sides? We know very little about his background, who his family was, they might have been arrogant pure bloods. What did he do after graduation, he must have had a job next to his Order of the Phoenix work. So maybe one day he was cornered by Death Eaters, who knew he was a weak person. They showed him appreciation, treated him like an equal, introduced him to Voldemort. Pettigrew was always described as someone who was drawn to more powerful persona and easily influenced. So if he was treated well, had the feeling that he was valued, he might have been easily persuaded that he should betray the Potters, I am sure with a little bit of pressure combined with a fear for Voldemort Pettigrew was willing to do that.

That makes sense, Voldemort does the same with goblins, gaint and werewolves promising them the rights they never had under the Ministiry's.

wickedwickedboy August 16th, 2007 10:03 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Did Peter develop throughout the series? If Wormtail liked the choices he made, why did he bite Goyle on the Hogwarts Express?

I think Peter was pretty much just trying to save his own life after the Potters death. However, I think he retained some love in his heart for his friends - and was reminded of this once he came into contact with Harry again. When he saw his remaining friends in the S. Shack, I think he felt it again. But it was too late. I think in the end, his hand started choking him because he had decided in his heart to not harm Harry and make good on his life debt. I think he was making that he was also thinking about his friends and his betrayal and all it cost them. He didn't want to die, but the evil hand had no mercy - it was controled by his soul.

blhendless August 16th, 2007 10:07 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by padfootrules (Post 4703655)
I know! That rat deserves to be no where. Send him back home....

Don't insult rats by comparing them to Peter! That's just evil!

flimseycauldron August 17th, 2007 12:26 am

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ_Jup81 (Post 4717456)
Well, Peter did voluntarily hang around with a Werewolf, so that's an act of bravery. He also became an unregistered animagus, something else that's dangerous, as it's illegal, but, seeing as how he is a bit on the cowardly side, and seems to look out only for himself, he definitely fits the stereotypical trait of a Slytherin. He could also fit into Hufflepuff since he, seemingly, remains loyal to those who can keep him safe.

Perhaps this was one of the times that Dumbledore felt the hat sorted too soon. Either that or the hat was swayed by Peter wanting to be in Gryffindor (I wonder when exactly he met the other Marauders) even though all of his characteristics were Slytherin.


Quote:

Originally Posted by padfootrules (Post 4703655)
I know! That rat deserves to be no where. Send him back home....

Quote:

Originally Posted by blhendless (Post 4728193)
Don't insult rats by comparing them to Peter! That's just evil!

Well, rats did carry the bubonic plague....

lushesx3 August 19th, 2007 2:23 pm

Re: Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flimseycauldron (Post 4728530)
Perhaps this was one of the times that Dumbledore felt the hat sorted too soon. Either that or the hat was swayed by Peter wanting to be in Gryffindor (I wonder when exactly he met the other Marauders) even though all of his characteristics were Slytherin.




Well, rats did carry the bubonic plague....

Pettigrew definately did fit all the negative characteristics of a slytherin to a T, he probably did ask to be in Gryffindor. Maybe the rest of his family had been in Gryffindor and would've disowned him if he ended up in Slytherin? he certainly seems the type to beg the hat.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:50 pm.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.