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-   -   Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16339)

Tonks08 August 9th, 2003 3:50 pm

Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy?
 
I searched for this, but i didn't find anything...

So anyways, Does Voldemort know?

We already know that Snape is a spy from the Ootp, but how long do you think his spying would last? And if Voldie finds out do you think he'll kill Snape, so then Harry might beable to take N.E.W.T potions if he gets a new Professor.

Bensoir August 9th, 2003 4:15 pm

I dont see how Voldemort could know, Snape is still alive and if Voldemort did know then he'd be dead. Unless he is using Snape against the Order without him knowing. Not very probable though. Snape could be using the Polyjuice potion and turning himself into Crouch as he never died and can't exactly tell Voldemort he's alive.

I also think Harry will do Potions at NEWT as Dumbledore will want to keep Harry close to Snape to carry on with occulmancy etc.

Tonks08 August 9th, 2003 4:25 pm

Yeah, like at the end of the GoF, Dumbledore said, "At great Persional Risk" So I think that Snape might die, because I'm sure that Voldemort doesn't let his deatheaters drink at their meetings, so If Voldemort would keep them for an hour, Snape would be **** out of luck, wouldn't he?

turbotriple_power August 9th, 2003 4:36 pm

Yah, i don't think Voldie knows...
But if Snape is a spy and he is using polyjuice potion to look like crouch well did LV suspect him because he wasn't there in the departement of mysteries?
I mean i would think that if the real Crouch was still alive he would've went, no?
And by the way we know from the GoF that Snape is a spy.
It was ritten when Harry was in the pensive when it was Karkaroff that was accused.

________________

"I told you!" Ron hissed at Hermione as she stared down the article. "I told you not to annoy Rita Skeeter! She's made you out to be some sort of-scarlet woman!"
Hermione stopped looking atonished and snorted with laughter. "Scarlet woman?" she repeated, shaking with surpressed giggles as she looked around at Ron.
"It's what my mum calls them," Ron muttered, his ears going red.:lol:

Sirius83 August 9th, 2003 4:42 pm

Nah, i doubt it. I have a feeling Snape's cover may be blown during book 6 though.

Bensoir August 9th, 2003 4:44 pm

I think his cover will be blown also.

Newt August 9th, 2003 5:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonks08
And if Voldie finds out do you think he'll kill Snape, so then Harry might beable to take N.E.W.T potions if he gets a new Professor.

At this point Voldemort knowing Snape is a spy isn't going to change much. Snape abandoned Voldemort, he's already a marked man. Voldemort even states this in the GoF when explaining the six missing spaces in the Death Eaters.

And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service [Evan Rosier, Travers, and Wilkes] . One too cowardly to return [Karkaroff] ...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever [Snape] ...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who was already reentered my service [Crouch, Jr.].

xlupin_loverx August 9th, 2003 6:02 pm

I suppose Voldemort could know, but he doesn't seem to be doing anything about it. Well, so far. I have a gut feeling a lot is going to happen with Snape in the next two books, and that we may learn a lot more about him. (At least I hope so.)

But also, Snape is a master at Legilimency and Occlumency. He even says, "The Dark Lord, for instance almost always knows when someone is lying to him. Only those skilled at Occlumency are able to shut down those feelings and memories that contradict the lie, and so utter falsehoods in his presence without detection." (page 531, hardback American edition) He's obviously talking about when we was a Death Eater and spying for the Order, but he could easily also be talking about what he's having to do now. If Voldie's groupies are trying to find out if Snape has betrayed him he could be tricking them with Occlumency to think that nothing's up. Just a thought.

Tonks08 August 9th, 2003 6:35 pm

I know that Voldie doesn't know that Snape is a spy or he'd be dead, or if he did know he could use Snape to get into the Order plans and stuff.

But I agree with what turbotriple_power said: "But if Snape is a spy and he is using polyjuice potion to look like crouch well did LV suspect him because he wasn't there in the departement of mysteries?
I mean i would think that if the real Crouch was still alive he would've went, no?"

BEcause Crouch was "his most faithful death eater":scared:
So, either that Snape's not actually a deatheater and hanging with Voldie and his morons, or he's just not in Voldie's inner circle :p

peevesfan August 9th, 2003 6:35 pm

I, too, am dying to learn more about Snape! I'm so confused; obviously since his cover was blown he cannot simply be a spy anymore (without resorting to Polyjuice Potion or the like), but in the fifth book, Sirius refers to him as Lucius Malfoy's "lapdog." I know that Sirius has been wrong before, but I can't help wondering what that's supposed to mean. Why does he specifically refer to Lucius? Is there more of a connection there besides the fact that Snape used to be a Death Eater as well?

Auror Williamson August 9th, 2003 6:43 pm

My personal prediction on this matter is that if caught by You-Know-Who, Snape will most certainly die. Perhaps tortured to death? I also don't think that Snape is actually such a bad man as Harry thinks, and would willingly give up his life to save Harry. (Just take a look at my siggy. I am a member of the Severus Snape Appreciation Society.)

peevesfan August 9th, 2003 7:14 pm

I think it's entirely possible that Snape could be using Polyjuice Potion to pose as Crouch; the fact that Crouch didn't show up in the Ministry of Magic doesn't necessarily have to be a giveaway for Voldemort. Snape (posing as Crouch) could have given him any number of excuses for why he wasn't there. But I doubt that's all that Snape is doing, because at the end of GoF Dumbledore says something like "You know what you need to do; are you prepared to do it?" He and Dumbledore must've had a discussion sometime in the past in which they decided what the game plan was for Snape should Voldemort ever return to power. I just wonder what it is!

I don't think there's any way that Snape could simply be a spy posing as a Death Eater anymore. As some have already said, Voldemort states that he believes Snape has left him forever in GoF. So it has to be something more than that. I have a strong feeling it involves Lucius Malfoy somehow, as I said in my above post (#10.) Maybe Snape, through Occlumency, has led Lucius to believe that he is a double agent. We know that Lucius shares things with him because in OoTP he tells Sirius that Lucius figured out that he came to the station with Harry disguised as Padfoot. Lucius has got to play a big role in all this, right?

Trilhas September 28th, 2003 10:06 pm

It's absolutely certain that Voldemort knows about Snape. I mean he knows about everything. Then in GoF, he actually points out the missing death eaters among which one he says has left their side forever, which must mean Snape. But what happened to Karkaroff?

hesdead-dealwithit September 29th, 2003 12:40 am

I don't think he knows, because if he did then he would tell Lucius to kill him right away. I think he suspects that Snape has "left him forever," but doesn't think that Snape would actually go to Dumbledore's side.

chop September 29th, 2003 1:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trilhas
It's absolutely certain that Voldemort knows about Snape. I mean he knows about everything. Then in GoF, he actually points out the missing death eaters among which one he says has left their side forever, which must mean Snape. But what happened to Karkaroff?

I'm pretty sure there is a thread discussing which one (Snape or Karkaroff) was the DE leaving LV forever and going to die and wich was the coward one, but now I don't remember where.

Starrlight September 29th, 2003 2:28 am

Suppose Snape's using polyjuice potion to appear as Winky the house elf?

hermione_fan October 4th, 2003 8:36 am

I think that Voldie knows a lot more than we think he does. I also think that his cover will be blown in book six.

Doggy October 4th, 2003 4:58 pm

We don't know how Snape spies. If he does it in person or what.. As people have suggested, he could be using polyjuice, even though I doubt it. So we don't know if his cover is blown or not.

But... Voldemort must know by now that Snape was a spy in the last war at least. In one of the trials (Kharkaroff's, I think it was) Dumbledore says to the whole court that Snape became a spy for him, and that he already has given evidence on the matter. This means that it's recorded in at least two trials. Someone (ie Malfoy) must have told Voldemort that by now..

Alcina October 4th, 2003 5:26 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doggy
We don't know how Snape spies. If he does it in person or what.. As people have suggested, he could be using polyjuice, even though I doubt it. So we don't know if his cover is blown or not.

But... Voldemort must know by now that Snape was a spy in the last war at least. In one of the trials (Kharkaroff's, I think it was) Dumbledore says to the whole court that Snape became a spy for him, and that he already has given evidence on the matter. This means that it's recorded in at least two trials. Someone (ie Malfoy) must have told Voldemort that by now..

We do know that Snape spies in person. When during an Occlumency lesson he sees in Harry's mind the dream he had where he saw Rookwood advising the Dark Lord, Snape says 'How doe that man and that room come to be in your mind?'

Snape knows that this dream is one of the ones Harry is getting out of the Dark Lord's head. How does he know that? How does he know it's not just a normal dream that happens to feature Rookwood (after all, his face is plastered on wanted posters everywhere, so Harry could quite easily be dreaming of him)?
The only way he could know that dream was a mind reading one, a real one was if he recognised the room, and knew Harry ahd never been there.

Now this seems to be quite clear to me; Snape recognises the room and knows where it is. And the only way he could recognise that room was if he's been there. So presumably he's been in the Dark Lord's presence recently, since he started living whereever he's living now.

As for the 'hadn't anyone told the Dark Lord about Karkaroff's trial' thing, my take is this. Wormtail had indeed told him. That's why in the graveyard scene he says 'One I believe has left me forever; he will be killed of course' But then later that night, I assume Snape turned up, claiming that he was actually a double agent, and look wasn't I good at it, Dumbledore believes me, I can spy inside the school! And the Dark Lord is used to being able to tell when someone's lying, and he doesn't sense Snape lying, so he figures that Snape's telling the truth.

Doggy October 4th, 2003 6:45 pm

It's possible That Voldemort believes that Snape is a double agent, yes but I would think he's a bit more suspicious than that.

Also, if (I said if) Snape spies by using polyjuice to impersonate for example Crouch Jr., he'd have been in that room anyway, so that isn't exactly clear proof. Besides; I don't think Snape knew about the dream being "real" so to speak; only he guessed correctly that Harry hadn't been practising occlumency enough. It's a Snape thing, trying to pin Harry down.

"Well you obviously need to practise more.."


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