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-   -   Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16339)

darklord_grindelwald May 13th, 2004 10:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavy
Which makes me wonder - how would Lupin know? Just second hand from DD or some other way?

Well, it's possible that he is a Legilimens (or Legilimentor?). In PoA, Harry felt like several times that Lupin can read his thoughts. So I think he can use Legilimency, though he couldn't master it fully.

Azkaban escapee May 13th, 2004 11:08 pm

Voldie probably thinks Snape is a spy for him. Snape being skilled at occlumency could probably pull it off, although that worries me he can lie to anyone includong Dumbledore.

Hes a great charactor no one can be 100% sure whoes side hes on theres so much evidence agaisnt him yet Dumbledore trusts him.

Marie Lexis May 15th, 2004 10:03 pm

I don't think that Voldemort really knows about him but I do think that he will find out some how. There has to be other spys for Voldemort that knows about Snape. It's just practically impossible not to think that.

Discordia May 26th, 2004 2:14 pm

Ok, Voldemort has to know by now. How could he not? Voldemort knows the names of all his DE's and whose following him. Snape was also part of a gang of Slytherins that nearly all turned out to be DE's. Since Snape and Malfoy seem to be so buddy buddy I'm going to assume that they were part of that gang. It's apparent that Snape is the one Voldemort was referring to as the one who wouldn't return. Assuming that Voldemort knows he's turned against him and that Lucius knows about his change of heart that brings me to two conclusions. One being that Lucius knows the truth now but hasn't said anything becasue he plans to use Snape against himself or that he's in league with Severus which I doubt. Two, being that Lucius knows nothing about Snape's switch. So if Snape's risking his life to get information there might be another way that he's been getting his info. A safer way. There's also the fact that Draco tends to drop dark hints onto Harry and his gang. Lke when he hinted to Harry about Sirius with his use of the word Doggy...Maybe that's how... http://www.darkmark.com/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif Maybe that's one of the ways Severus is getting his information. I never really thought about it till now but it makes sense. How else did Snape know that Lucius saw Sirius at Platform 9 3/4? Draco can't keep his mouth shut and he's been known in the past to drop hints like this in the past and he's obviously discussed God knows what with Theodore not, Crabbe, and Goyle. If there was anyone that Draco was going to spill his guts to it would probably be the one person other than his father that he seems to trust and respect completely. Severus. I'll bet you right now that after Draco made those hints at Harry that as soon as they got to school Draco went off running his mouth again or atleast saying enough for Severus to put the pieces together. If Snape is no longer in with Voldemort's DE's and he's spying on them aswell Draco must be his key to finding out what Lucius and the other DE's are up to. I mean think about it. Many of the Slytherins have parents who are or were supporters of Voldemort. Draco might not be the only one running his mouth becasue if Draco knows a lot than I'm sure the rest of them might to. It would be the perfect cover. Snape is a teacher by day while all the while secretly spying on them and taking notes.

Tane May 26th, 2004 2:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discordia
[size=2]Ok, Voldemort has to know by now. How could he not?

Why would Voldemort know, if Snape is such a great spy then he might not know whether or not his death eater is on his side or not due to Snape's sneaky abilities. A good spy keeps you guessing and I have a feeling that Snipe might not be on Dumbledore's side. Voldemort was not sure you see about the death eater that might have betrayed him, for all we know he could have been playing a game there and casting doubt just to reinforce Snape's true position and hide the fact that he is really spying for him, Voldemort.

Snape is not betraying Voldemort, I think he is thick in with him though it is difficult to prove which side he has truly taken and that is the thing. I stated in a thread that Snape seemed afraid when Harry spoke out Voldemort's name during one of the Occlumency lessons. I could be wrong though as the death eaters especially Bellatrix state the same thing to anyone they see as not worthy to be either a death eater or supporter of Voldemort, they say 'how dare you speak of his name', and that is not that dissimilar to what Snape spat at Harry with when he said Voldemort in front of him.

LilFlirtyBaby08 May 26th, 2004 5:26 pm

I think Voldie might be a little susipious but not enough to to kill Snape ;for it :rotfl:

RemusLupinFan May 26th, 2004 6:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna27
[color=MediumTurquoise]I think Voldermort knows and is just playing with Snape. From what we've seen of Voldemort from the end of GoF...he has little respect and zero trust for his Death Eaters. How can he trust anyone when he's so ruthless himself? It's hard to explain...but I think Voldermort operates with a presumption that his DE are worthless. If they prove otherwise, great. But they're kind of like mindless things he can use to see his will done as far as Voldermort is concerned. With few exceptions, they all betrayed him the last time around, but he didn't kill them. He saw some value to them for various reasons...positions some of them held at the Ministry etc.

So I think it's kind of the same with Snape.COLOR]


This illustrates my belief exactly. I think Voldemort would never disclose any important information to Snape. Voldemort most likely keeps him alive just in case he might be useful somehow in the future. It seems to be the same deal with Wormtail also.

Unfortunately I also think that our fav potions master might meet his end in the two books.

Lanc May 26th, 2004 6:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tane
Voldemort was not sure you see about the death eater that might have betrayed him, for all we know he could have been playing a game there and casting doubt just to reinforce Snape's true position and hide the fact that he is really spying for him, Voldemort.

What would be the point of Voldemort doing that? He thought Harry was going to die, so who was going to carry the news back that there is a Death Eater who has left forever? Unless he believes there is another spy amongst the Death Eaters, I can't see any point in his making a statement that would suggest Snape is not loyal.

I do agree, however, that Voldemort was not certain that the traitor had truly deserted him. Because of this, I think Snape could have persuaded Voldemort to let him live and return to the ranks of the Death Eaters (possibly telling him he would act as a spy at Hogwarts). However, I would doubt that Voldemort would fully trust Snape, so he doesn't tell Snape everything. Because of this, Snape didn't know about the plan to lure Harry to the Ministry of Magic. I do think Snape is loyal to Dumbledore (though I wouldn't trust Snape further than Hagrid could throw him).

Jade Evans May 26th, 2004 10:43 pm

I think Voldemort knows. At the end of GoF, he addressed the 2 missing DEs as a coward (Karkaroff?) and one that has left him forever (Snape?) who will be killed.

Dumbledore had testified for Snape in front of the Wizengamet that Snape had turned and is now spying on Voldemort. It's hard to imagine this news will not travel to the ears of some Voldemort supporter working in the Ministry. So Voldemort should know about it.

Snape is still alive because he is at Hogwarts most of the time, or safe places like the 12 Grimmauld Place. I imagine that when he is spying, he would be desguised in some way and also use Occlumency to avoid being found out.

eowiodith May 26th, 2004 11:10 pm

I dont think voldie knows yet, but he will...... I cant be sure of snapes motives either but time will tell.

blackforest May 27th, 2004 12:31 am

Hmm. This is hard to tell.

Perhaps Voldemort does know and is bidding his time to try to find a use for Snape...

Or perhaps he does not know, but he is bound to know soon. I have a feeling it won't end well.

Silkeng May 27th, 2004 6:44 am

I think it is pretty clear how ruthless Voldemort is to those that disappoint or betray him, I don't think he would hesitate to kill or torture Snape if he knew. I would guess it was pretty accurate to say that when Snape disappears or dies, that is when we will know Voldemort found out.

Mrnozzie May 27th, 2004 11:08 am

I reckon that V knows because he says at the end of GoF that there are 'six missing DE, three dead, one who's too cowardly to return, one who's at Hogwarts and one who's left him forever...he will be killed of course'. (I did heavily cut that bit down by the way!)

I am assuming that Snape was the one to have left him - and the one that V wants to kill. But as to why Snape is still alive if that is the case ... I don't know! There are so many loose ends. Who knows? Well, JK does but I suppose she'd have to....... lol

Discordia May 27th, 2004 12:49 pm

Quote:

Why would Voldemort know, if Snape is such a great spy then he might not know whether or not his death eater is on his side or not due to Snape's sneaky abilities.
Voldemor tknows everything about his DE's. He's very good at knowing what they're up to. Snape is also afraid of Voldemort. He's to afraid to say his name. he always refers to him as the Dark Lord.

But that is a good idea, who ever mentioned that Voldemort knows and is just playing with him. It would explain a lot. Voldemort could know about Snape but he's still leading Snape onto believe that he doesn't know abiut his spy work lately. If this is true than I think that Voldemort is just bidding his time with Snape. I think that he may just be waiting until the opportune moment to reveal it all to Snape.

Stephie May 29th, 2004 12:55 am

Yup. It states so at the end of GoF :

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One too cowardly to return ...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever{{Snape}} ...he will be killed, of course ...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who was already reentered my service".

Tane May 29th, 2004 1:19 am

I just can't help but think that it is too obvious and that the Master is referring to his Lordship when he calls Voldemort the Dark Lord. You see in a way that is more flattering from Snape as he likes to be called Master instead of Professor.

In a way Snape is just in the right place and trusted enough by Dumbledore to give Voldemort the upper hand by killing Dumbledore.

I really can't figure out Snape at all. You just can't trust him and for all we know it could have been Fudge as his faithful servant who would not even acknowledge his return to the point of insulting Voldemorts very existence by denying his return to power and granting him what he needs or wants. Fudge fits the role just as much as Snape. I still think there is something not quiet right with Snape’s character as it is not all cut and dry and he is too cunning to be caught out by either Voldemort or Dumbledore.

I really can't wait to find out about Snape and J.K.Rowling did state that there was something bad about his character in the next book, she told us not to feel too sorry for Snape suggesting that he has something up his sleeve. Now I was convinced it was Snape until J.K.Rowling stated that we could not trust Snape and that we should not get too comfortable with him or feel sorry for him in an interview. After that I am really not sure as to how to take Snape’s character.

PhineasNigellus May 29th, 2004 4:15 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tane

I really can't figure out Snape at all. You just can't trust him and for all we know it could have been Fudge as his faithful servant who would not even acknowledge his return to the point of insulting Voldemorts very existence by denying his return to power and granting him what he needs or wants. Fudge fits the role just as much as Snape. I still think there is something not quiet right with Snape’s character as it is not all cut and dry and he is too cunning to be caught out by either Voldemort or Dumbledore.

I really can't wait to find out about Snape and J.K.Rowling did state that there was something bad about his character in the next book, she told us not to feel too sorry for Snape suggesting that he has something up his sleeve. Now I was convinced it was Snape until J.K.Rowling stated that we could not trust Snape and that we should not get too comfortable with him or feel sorry for him in an interview. After that I am really not sure as to how to take Snape’s character.

I'm the same - I honestly have no idea how to interpret Snapes actions. I'm really looking forward to finding out exactly who's side he's on. That said, I do think that Voldemort probably knows about Snape spying (if he is indeed spying FOR the order), for whatever reason, my guess because he knows that having Snape so close to Dumbledore and Harry could be a huge advantage, he's not punished Snape just yet. We know that he's not exactly merciful towards death eaters who have failed him, but I think Snape is different to the others - Snape can give LV something that no other failed death eater has been able to give, so thats why LV has spared him... so far.

Jade Evans May 29th, 2004 5:41 am

I am re-reading PS/SS and I found some evidence that Voldemort does know about Snape. Remember that Snape had private talks with Quirril, and Quirril had Voldemort with him all the time as we know. Obviously Voldemort had heard all those conversations and knows that Snape had turned on him. Snape even warned Quirril to consider where his loyalties lie (in the Forbidden Forest). So there you go, solid evidence. Sorry if this has been mentioned already, I have just read to that part today :)

130R May 29th, 2004 5:51 am

I don't see how Voldemort could not know.

Dumbledore announced to an entire court room that Snape was a spy. Not a particularly great way to keep this information secret. Furthermore, Barty Crouch Sr. was present at this hearing, and Voldemort was in his mind.

If Voldemort would extract every thought and memory from a low ranking minisitry official like Bertha Jorkins, he would almost certainly do the same to Crouch.

Snape also tried to stop Voldemort from getting the Sorcerer's stone. I know some people might say that Snape didn't know it was Voldemort who was trying to steal the stone. Voldemort doesn't strike me as the type of person who will distinguish between someone intentionally working against him, and someone unintentionally working against him. Also, Voldemort obviously didn't trust Snape since he didn't bring him in on the plan.

It seems almost impossible that Snape could simply rejoin the Death Eaters as a spy. If JKR decides to go this route, I hope it is clearly explained how him accomplished such a feat. My guess is that Snape is getting information for the order from one of the other Death Eaters.

jen15poms May 30th, 2004 2:36 am

Snape must be an extremely good spy if Voldemort does not know what he is up to...I'm trying to rememer...Snape obviously does not show up at the graveyard where Harry is "portkeyed" to in GoF...or does he??? **checks the book**

We have Wormtail, Malfoy, the Lestranges (in Azkaban), Macnair, Crabb, Goyle, Nott. These are the DEs that he names. Then we have two sections which are a tad ambiguous...

"He walked on. Some of the Death Eaters he passed in silence, but he paused before others and spoke to them."

--Could Snape be one of the DEs that he passed by???

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return [KARAKOFF???]...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reentered my service [likely, Bartemius Crouch, Jr.].

--So, either Snape is there, but LV just passed him by...in which case he may not know that Snape is a spy. OR Snape is the one who LV believes has left him forever...in which case he has probably figured out that Snape was a spy, and he is in mortal danger.


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