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Old March 17th, 2006, 4:41 pm
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Weasleytwin  Female.gif Weasleytwin is offline
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Join Date: 03rd June 2004
Age: 37
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Re: Assuming RAB is Regulus A. Black v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole
I don't remember Dumbledore ever mentioning Regulus. Did you mean Slughorn?
Well, I looked for the quote that I thought I remembered, and it doesn't seem to exist. I found out that Dumbledore does mention Regulus, but doesn't give as much information as I thought he did. I probably got the quote mixed up with Lupin's.

While I was looking for this phantom-quote, I put together a list of places where Regulus is mentioned, just for reference. Here are the Regulus-related quotes:

OotP, ch. 6, Sirius'Leave?' Sirius smiled bitterly and ran his fingers through his long, unkempt hair. 'Because I hated the whole lot of them: my parents, with their pure-blood mania, convinced that to be a Black made you practically royal...my idiot brother, soft enough to believe them...that's him.'
Sirius jabbed his finger at the very bottom of the tree, at the name 'Regulus Black.' A date of death (some fifteen years previously) followed the date of birth.
'He was younger than me,' said Sirius, 'and a much better son, as I was constantly reminded.'
'But he died,' said Harry.
'Yeah,' said Sirius. 'Stupid idiot...he joined the Death Eaters.'
'You're kidding!'
'Come on, Harry, haven't you seen enough of this house to tell what kind of wizards my family were?' said Sirius testily.
'Were-were your parents Death Eaters as well?'
'No, no, but believe me, they thought Voldemort had the right idea, they were all for the purification of the wizarding race, getting rid of Muggle-borns and having pure-bloods in charge. They weren't alone, either, there were quite a few people, before Voldemort had shown his true colors, who thought he had the right idea about things...they got cold feet when they saw what he was prepared to do to get power, though. But I bet my parents thought Regulus was a right little hero for joining up at first.'
'Was he killed by an Auror?' Harry asked tentatively.
'Oh, no,' said Sirius. 'No, he was murdered by Voldemort. Or on Voldemort's orders, more likely; I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you don't just hand in your resignation to Voldemort. It's a lifetime of service or death.'

Sirius gives us most of our information on Regulus. If we were to take these comments at face value, Sirius tells us that he had a younger brother who agreed with his parents opinions about pure-bloods being superior. Regulus then joined the Death Eaters, probably to his parents satisfaction at first. He was never very important, but panicked at what he was being asked to do, fled, and was killed by other Death Eaters.

As I, and others have said before, however, we can't just take Sirius' story at face value. For one, he was clearly quite prejudiced against his brother from the beginning. Throughout the story, he uses phrases like 'my idiot brother,' 'soft enough to believe them, and 'stupid idiot.' He also speaks 'testily,' indicating that he was agitated while telling the story. Sirius also admits that his parents favored Regulus: 'and a much better son, as I was constantly reminded.' Even though Sirius professes to hate his parents, he must have felt some resentment at this outright favoritism. The combination of all of these facts leads me to believe that Sirius was prejudiced against his family, including Reggy, and agitated to have to speak of them. I do not think he intentionally meant to mislead Harry, but we have to question his reliability as a witness, due to these biases. Unfortunately, most of our information about Regulus comes from this biased witness.

I have pointed out elsewhere that Sirius had left home before Reggy joined the Death Eaters. Reggy was younger than Sirius and Sirius ran away at 16. So Sirius was not around to talk to Reggy or hear what his parents had to say about Reggy being a Death Eater. Also, I really doubt that the Blacks were still under any illustions about Voldemort's intentions by the time Reggy was old enough to join the Death Eaters. Voldemort had been in power for 11 years when he attacked the Potters-though there is some speculation on Reggy's age and the age when he joined the Death Eaters, I think we can safely say that Voldemort had been in power for 8-10 years by the time Reggy joined. The Blacks couldn't possibly still be unaware of his true intentions. Edit: I forgot about the Black Family Tree...so we know that Reggy was born in 1961 and died in 1979...at age 18. I assume that he probably joined the DEs at 17, but it is possible that he joined at 16, like Draco. So we can assume that he joined the DEs in either 1977 or 1978, when Voldemort had been in power for 7-8 years when Reggy joined...I still don't think the Blacks would be in the dark about Voldemort's true intentions at 7-8 years into his reign of terror.

And where did Sirius get this information? He was not a Death Eater himself. I think there are two possible sources: Snape or from fellow prisoners in Azkaban. Now Snape, as we know, absolutely hated Sirius. Would he give him accurate information about his brother's death? I think it's possible that Snape, wanting to taunt Sirius (as he did during OotP) might exaggerate Reggy's incompetance, perhaps making it sound as if Reggy was an umimportant member of the Death Eaters who panicked at something. Likewise, if Sirius got this information from fellow Azkaban prisoners, would they give him an accurate version of the story? How much talking can they really do in Azkaban anyway, since they are constantly being accosted by dementors? And wouldn't the Death Eaters in Azkaban be pretty angry at Reggy for deserting, and would probably speak poorly of him, perhaps saying that he was unimportant and panicked? I'm not sure that either of these sources are a reliable source. The only other option is that Sirius asked Dumbledore to look into it (I'm sure Dumbledore had the resources to find out the answer), but I don't see Sirius caring enough to ask this.

HBP, ch.3, DumbledoreBlack family tradition decreed that the house was handed down the direct line, to the next male with the name of 'Black.' Sirius was the very last of that line, since his younger brother, Regulus, predeceased him and both were childless.

From Dumbledore's comment, all we can infer is that he died before Sirius and had no children. It also confirms that Reggy was younger than Sirius. Dumbledore does not mention Reggy being a Death Eater or comment on how he died.

HBP, ch. 4, SlughornWell, anyway, he was a big pal of your father's at school. The whole Black family had been in my house, but Sirius ended up in Gryffindor! Shame-he was a talented boy. I got his brother, Regulus, when he came along, but I'd have liked the set.

Slughorn's comment tells us that Regulus, like the rest of the Blacks except Sirius, was in Slytherin. We can also infer from this that Reggy was as talented as Sirius-otherwise, Slughorn would not have compared them as a set. I think we can also guess that Reggy was a Slug club member, since Slughorn remembers him, so he must have either been talented or had connections. The interesting thing is that Slughorn does not seem reluctant to mention Regulus, even though he was a Death Eater. This does not seem consistent with his reactions to other former students turning bad. He will not talk about Voldemort at all, and as soon as he finds out that Snape killed Dumbledore, he voices his amazement about his former student's actions. Does he mention any other former students who are Death Eaters? I know that we see Avery and Lestrange at the beginning of the horcrux memory, but I don't receall Slughorn ever talking about them, or any other former student that turned bad. If I am right, then Regulus is the only former student turned Death Eater that Slughorn mentions. What can this mean? Did Sluggy feel safe talking about him, since he is now long dead, or does Slughorn know something about Reggy that we don't?

HBP, ch. 6, LupinAnd they found Igor Karkaroff's body in a shack up north. The Dark Mark had been set over it-well, frankly, I'm surprised he stayed alive for even a year after deserting the Death Eaters; Sirius' brother, Regulus, only managed a few days as far as I can remember.

This comment tells us that Reggy only lived for a few days after officially deserting Voldemort, as far as Lupin can remember. I think we can take Lupin's word for this. But I wonder where Lupin got this information. From Sirius, perhaps? If so, we can question its reliability, since Sirius is quite biased against Reggy. How would someone who is on Dumbledore's side know the details of when Regulus deserted Voldemort? Perhaps from Snape, but again, we can question the reliability of this information. Would Snape have hated Regulus as much as he hated Sirius? Would he give Sirius the real story, or a distorted story, since he hated Sirius so much? I think Lupin's word can be trusted, but I wonder where he got the information.

While I've got the books open, here are a couple other quotes that are relevant to many of the RAB theories:

GoF, ch. 33, VoldemortAnd then I ask myself, how could they believe I would not rise again? They, who knew the steps that I took, long ago, to guard myself against mortal death? They, who had seen proofs of the immensity of my power in the times when I was mightier than any wizard living?

I know we've beaten this quote to death, so I'm going to make my comments brief. Despite the fact that Dumbledore doesn't believe that the DE's know about the horcruxes, this quote suggests to me that they had to have some idea. From this comment, it sounds to me as though Voldemort has shown the DE's some proof of his immortality, even if he did not tell them that he had made multiple horcruxes. However, a couple pages later, Lucius asks Voldemort how he managed to return, which indicates that he did not have any idea how Voldemort managed to stay alive.

GoF, ch 33, VoldemortMy curse was deflected upon myself by the woman's foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon myself. Aaah...pain beyond pain, my friends; nothing could have prepared me for it. I was ripped from my body, I was less than the meanest ghost...but still, I was alive. What I was, even I do not know...I, who have gone farther than anybody along the path that leads to immortality. You know my goal-to conquer death. And now, I was tested, and it appeared that one or more of my experiments had worked...for I had not been killed, though the curse should have done it.

This one has been beaten to death, too, but here it is for reference.

HBP, ch. 2, Bellatrix"He shares everything with me!" said Bellatrix, firing up at once. "He calls me his most loyal, his most faithful-"
"Does he?" said Snape, his voice delicately inflected to suggest his disbelief. "Does he still, after the fiasco at the Ministry?"
"That was not my fault!" said Bellatrix, flushing. "The Dark Lord has, in the past, entrusted me with his most precious-if Lucius hadn't-"

Again, just for reference, since this one has been beaten to death, too. Either you believe she was referring to a horcrux or you don't.

HBP, ch. 28, RAB
To the Dark Lord
I know I will be dead long before you read this
but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret.
I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can.
I face death in the hope that when you meet your match,
you will be mortal once more.
R.A.B.

This has been discussed before, but I'd just like to point out to those that might have forgotten that RAB thinks that there is only one horcrux. He believes that by destroying this horcrux, he can make Voldemort mortal again.


__________________
Coolest villain ever.

My RAB theory:The R.A.B. discovered 'The Secret Riddle' theory
For reference:RAB related quotes

Last edited by Weasleytwin; March 17th, 2006 at 6:17 pm.
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