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Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:29 am
captive_lolita  Undisclosed.gif captive_lolita is offline
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Join Date: 19th November 2010
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Re: Homosexuality in Harry Potter v2

Originally Posted by magic_is_might View Post
I think it was actually Gellert and Dumbledore's power hungry muggle-dominance stuff that Dumbledore knew was wrong (which ultimately led to his sister's death) - nothing to do with homosexuality itself.
It's just odd that the only openly homosexual relationship in the books involved the archetypal good father figure being led astray by his evil male love interest.

Originally Posted by Andraste View Post
Did Dumbledore actually have a relationship with Grindelwald? I was under the impression that he was in love with Grindelwald, but that either he never told him or was rejected.
Teaching us that homosexuality is bad, kiddies, because you'll end up falling for the bad guys and getting into trouble... I wrote something about how I see their relationship here.

Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
To be perfectly honest i think JKR did a rather bad job with the topic of sexuality in the books not just homosexuality.

JKR had the chance to make Dumbledore into a character that the gay community could have been proud of but she held back and the way it was written (though i am sure this was not her intention) it almost made it seem like Dumbledore was ashamed of being gay (...)
I just find it a bit off that JKR was willing to increase the level of violence as the books porgressed (to the point of even torturing Hermione and having plenty of people killed on page) and yet she wasn't willing to outright say that Dumbledore was gay in the books. Why is murder okay but homosexuality is not.
I absolutely agree with you there. I always felt that JKR was tiptoeing around the subject, IMO all because she was scared of the public opinion and making less money if someone was offended.

Take what I said in the Remus/Tonks thread, which I firmly believe in: I think Remus and Sirius were gay. That isn't just my fannish opinion or something I enjoy in fanfiction (I don't read that much fanfiction), I genuinely believe that they came across like a gay couple until Sirius' death in OotP.

I can already hear the crows descending on me, squawking: "Sirius would never be gay!"

As inclined to just say "Why the hell not?" I'll just repeat what others have said before me: Sirius never had a girlfriend. Just google that sentence, it was actually canonly stated by JKR in an interview years ago.

But according to Snape in HBP, everyone thought the Marauders were "wonderful"! As biased to think badly of them as I'm sure Snape was, if Sirius was so popular and so straight, why didn't he have a girlfriend?

"He just didn't find anyone he liked at school, that doesn't mean he's gay!"

It doesn't mean he's straight either. In any case, he was an arrogant prankster who was very sure of himself, as he tells Harry in OotP. Surely that kind of teenage boy would have a girlfriend even if she wasn't the love of his life. But he didn't.

Now, as soon as Sirius got out of Azkaban and didn't have to hide in the woods anymore, he moved in with Remus. This makes sense because Remus is the person still alive whom Sirius knows best.

But I think JKR was giving us a hint at their relationship by the simple fact that they were giving Harry a joint Christmas present that year.

"Pfft, that's not proof, anyone could do that."

True, but this is literature, and there is a difference as to whether an author "shows" or "tells". The impression this gives off is that of a gay couple, and I think any gay person would agree.

"Are you saying only gay couples can give someone's godson joint Christmas presents??"

No. But as we don't have as much characterization on Sirius and Remus to go on as we do with the main characters, we have to make do with what we have, and a detail can become so much bigger if it's one of only few. Again, it's the impression it gave off.

So what about Remus? Well, it's never mentioned that HE had a girlfriend either.

"That's because he's a werewolf and he's self-conscious."

Bill has werewolfy problems, too, albeit not full-fledged ones, but he is happily married to Fleur.

In any case, wouldn't it make sense for self-conscious Remus, the werewolf who wouldn't hurt a fly but doesn't want to impose on the public who won't tolerate him for what he is, to find love and comfort in his best friend, Sirius? Yes, it would.

"But he got married to TONKS!!"

When he was 37 years old! It is possible for people to be bisexual and have successful relationships with either gender throughout their lives.

Also, it has to be noted, that throuought the entire book OotP, there is not once mention of any kind of romantic chemistry between Tonks and Remus. Not one bit. It only starts once Sirius is dead. That's a big clue there.

Now, allow, for a moment, to assume that I am right and Sirius and Remus were a couple? Well. In that case, at the start of 1996, Remus would have been utterly miserable to have lost his boyfriend whom he had previously not seen for 12 years and whom he only had a very short time to catch up with before he died. He might have been on the rebound, afraid of being alone for the rest of his life. People do this a lot.

Tonks is Sirius' cousin. In OotP, she is portrayed as a bit of a stereotypical punk, with bright pink hair and a tomboyish attitude, funloving and young and optimistic. She reminds the reader of a young Sirius, the one who rode a flying motorbike and plastered pictures of girls around his bedroom. Chances are that even her facial features even resemble his in a way. If Remus was indeed bisexual, he may have looked for a replacement Sirius in her.

"OMG I love this pairing, why can't he just love her for herself?"

He can. I'm sure she's not a clone of Sirius, and I'm sure Remus appreciated her individual qualities, too.

But I found that, reading HBP, the Remus/Tonks relationship was handled very badly. It was rushed - almost like an afterthought.

And I believe that that afterthought was just so that JKR read one day on the internet that many people, like myself, thought Sirius and Remus were coming off as a gay couple. She couldn't have that, people might be offended!

"She outet Dumbledore as gay, she obviously doesn't mind that much."

Yes, but at the point when she wrote Remus/Tonks, she hadn't outed Dumbledore yet. In any case, outing Dumbledore was a deliberated decision, she was able to think about just the way to do it, and possibly spoke to a legion of Public Relations advisers about it first.

Sirius/Remus wasn't an outing, but a widespread opinion on the internet that no PR person could control. I believe that JKR felt uncomfortable leaving that opinion out there without a counter-argument; but at the same time, I believe she intended for Sirius and Remus to come across that way; she just got cold feet when people actually recognized it for what it was written as.

Subsequently, she killed Sirius (for other reasons I'm sure) and gave Remus a wife, a wife who happened to also be coming across like a little bit of a tomboy and potential lesbian. It's like killing two birds with one stone.

But... it resulted in a very unprecedented and randomly placed romance, that between Remus/Tonks. It just doesn't follow on from OotP, and the above is my reasoning for why it seems to stilted and rushed.

I, as a transgender bisexual in a lesbian relationship, feel offended that she would cancel homosexuality out in this way.

"Everything you just said can't possibly be true, because..."

I have thought this through for several years and it is what I firmly believe.

~ "Just because something isn't mentioned in canon, that doesn't mean it couldn't happen."

"A writer who claims to own a character absolutely denies the existence of that character's soul." ~

Last edited by captive_lolita; December 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am.
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