View Single Post
Old March 28th, 2014, 10:36 am
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
Join Date: 13th April 2007
Posts: 6,026
Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
What was Dumbledore supposed to do in order to be thorough?
Question him Under Veritaserum or use an oath or Legilimency? Three things I can think of right now. I think Dumbledore should really not have let Snape off without knowing where Snape came from, who he was working for, what he had to gain from eavesdropping on him and last but not the least what he was going to do with the information he had overheard. This IMO is the very least Dumbledore should have done, simply because it was war. In wartime everything is different, everyone suspicious and spying upon the leader of the opposition to Voldemort should IMO result in a checking. To believe Snape and send him away seems to me the height of naive and it really shows nothing except that war with Voldemort was not being fought by Dumbledore. But by leading a resistence he was placing those who worked for him at tremendous risk and places their deaths on his negligence rather than the casualty of war.

There wasn't anything he could do other than questioning him. Dumbledore likely had a large amount of confidence in his ability to catch liars.
I disagree. I'm afraid that mere confidence in himself won't do at a time like that. He needed to be certain, to know.

The problem was that Snape was the one person who could fool Dumbledore. If Dumbledore didn't know Snape was an Occlumens, there was no reason at all for him to believe that he was being lied to.
We don't know if that is true, that Snape was at 20 years able to fool Dumbledore. but the point I made in my previous posts was that its immaterial whether Snape was an Occlumens with the capacity to fool Dumbledore or not. The moment he was caught eavesdropping he should have been locked up and investigated one way up and another way down and if Snape was going to be let off, it must be with the knowledge that what Snape knew and would reveal to anyone would not hurt the Order or its members and if such information could harm certain Order members, they could be more than adequately protected.

Another question here was what Snape was doing there in the first place.
Dumbledore says he came to spy in the first place, but that to his good fortune Snape was caught only a little way into the Prophecy and was thrown out.

Nobody could have predicted that Trelawney was going to make a prophecy at that time. According to Trelawney, Snape was also trying to get a job at that time. That is a far more believable reason for Snape being there. Dumbledore was hardly going to be telling his plans for Voldemort to a woman who was looking for a job.
I agree. No one could predict Trelawney was going to make a Prophecy. Not even Dumbledore who says pretty much the same thing in OOTP. And I also agree Snape was there on Voldemort's orders (he says to Bellatrix in HBP - Spinner's End chapter) to seek a job. So, yes, Snape may have come to approach Dumbledore for a job; but he was also very clearly caught eavesdropping. If he came for a job only, he would have first approached Aberforth about meeting with Dumbledore or sent an owl to him and confirmed his meeting, in which case, he would have been waiting patiently for his turn.

Snape did something else. We don't know if he had owled the Headmaster for meeting, but we do know he was caught eavesdropping and he was thrown out. So he was either thrown our despite his arranging a meeting with Dumbledore because of his poor conduct or he was thrown out because he simply stalked Dumbledore and then eavesdropped on him.

Whatever it was, it was a suspicious action, which in the times they lived should have been investigated inside out.

I believe it was and Dumbledore sent Snape away knowing full well he would go to Voldemort with it and that Voldemort would act on it, thereby starting the fulfilment of the Prophecy. In order to protect the rest of the Prophecy from getting into Voldemort's hands Dumbledore gave Trelawney a job, when in the first place he was not intending to do so.

Snape was also meant to take a job at Hogwarts by Voldemort so his background check would have come clean. Detaining someone indefinitely for potentially being in the wrong place at the wrong time without proof is *never* the right thing to do. That's the sort of stuff that happens in surveillance states.
It also happens when the state is in a civil war of sorts IMO. The WW was under attack for over 11 years (IIRC) continuously by Voldemort and his death eaters; it was at that time Snape was caught.

All this is based on the assumption that Dumbledore thought the prophecy incredibly important.
I think Dumbledore thought Voldemort may be interested. I think by that time Dumbledore was desperate and if he could make Voldemort believe that there was a person who could bring his downfall and keep him occupied with that for some time, much as he did with the Elder Wand in DH, giving Harry time to search Horcruxes, he would.

Not to say they are the perfect of plans, none of them are, but Dumbledore went with what he had IMO.

It wasn't. Dumbledore didn't need a prophecy to beat Voldemort. There already existed someone with the "power to vanquish the Dark Lord": Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore was not going to wait 17+ years for a kid to grow up and kill Voldemort. He had no intention of even letting the prophecy play out.
I agree. Dumbledore would do everything to defeat Voldemort and this was another ploy. Like even after knowing Harry was the BWL, Dumbledore searched high and low for Horcruxes to destroy them; he did not leave that for Harry because he was prophesied to defeat Voldemort. Like that, the one part of the Prophecy that Voldemort heard would serve much in the same way.

He was not going to hang back and wait for fear that he was going to "mark him as his equal". The knowledge that this kid would have a power that he did not, would only confirm his decision to act immediately. I imagine that Voldemort and Dumbledore predicted the child to be a mini-version of themselves - an outrageously talented and powerful kid who would be leagues ahead of his peers. There was no way Voldemort was going to wait around to kill someone, who apparently had a power that he did not, who was guaranteed to be tutored directly by Dumbledore.
Which was why Dumbledore needed to protect the boy with everything he had. I think he failed in that task. If Snape had not begged for Lily's life and if Voldemort had not agreed to spare her; and if Lily had thrown Voldemort's order to step aside back on his face or stepped aside, Harry would have died IMO.

I think the importance he gave to the prophecy would have been similar to the importance he gave to Trelawney's second prophecy. He didn't seem bothered at all about Peter's life being spared even though the prophecy said that it would result in Voldemort returning stronger.
I think he gave the second Prophecy some importance, enough to impress Harry, that it saved his life in Malfoy Manor much later.

The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links