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Old June 28th, 2015, 6:48 pm
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Join Date: 20th October 2008
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.21

James did not have his wand when he ran out to face Voldemort. I don't think Lily had her wand either. If she did she made no attempt to use it. I think the point of that was that neither were at that moment any threat to Voldemort when he chose to murder them, i.e., there was no "justification' for killing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Well, without the Potters dying there's no Love Protection for Harry. Which means there's nothing to destroy Voldemort's body and the Wizarding War just continues.

So Harry would grow up in what's basically a Police State, or worse.
I agree with this. The war would continue on. I think that without the destruction of Voldemort's body, Voldemort's Horcuxes would work weeble wobble-like to keep him around even if anyone managed to kill him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
I think Harry's protection came because Voldemort decided to honour Snape's request and gave Lily three chances to step aside. Otherwise I don't think such a protection could have occurred. James died and yet that couldn't save Lily. Lilly's death on the other hand gave Harry a protection because Voldemort decided to honour Snape's request and then went on to kill her. That I think protected Harry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
The reason it worked for Lily and not James was because Voldemort gave her a chance to actually do something. He killed James too quickly for James to do much except reach for his wand.

With Lily, she started screaming about killing her instead of Harry. Voldemort then got impatient and just AK'ed her on the spot, inadvertently creating an agreement between them (she said to kill her and not Harry, him killing her meant he agreed via actions). Thus he could not kill Harry because he'd accidentally agreed to her terms.

If he'd just knocked her out, or shoved her aside, or killed her before she could say anything, then there'd be no protection and they'd all be dead.
I agree with ShadowSonic that Voldemort and Lily created a contract, because Voldemort opened negotiations and Lily counter offered, then Voldy inadvertently agreed to her terms by taking her up on her offer to kill her "instead". Voldy could have just Stupified her when he walked in the room, but he decided to present his murderousness as a choice she was making instead.

I think Voldemort did consider sparing her because of Snape's request, but it is Voldemort's personality foible that turned that into a contract, because he decided he needed to talk to her and turn it into a choice for her rather than just incapacitate her and get on with murdering Harry. I think Voldemort liked presenting his victims with cruel choices, because he liked to make his victims feel like the cruelty he inflicted was somehow something they chose. Or maybe he truly feels magnanimous when he does that-- he does genuinely seem to feel like he can murder whomsoever he wants, like their lives belong to him, so maybe he feels big when he offers people these false choices. Because Lily didn't choose what he offered, but instead countered with an offer of her own, this time it cme back to bite Voldemort for breaking the agreement. I think the same thing happened at the end of Deathly Hallows, when Voldemort agreed not to attack the castle if Harry came to him (this time terms Voldemort picked himself), and then Voldemort immediately went to attack the castle after he got Harry. I guess the lesson here is beware what magical contracts one enters into!


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".... You've chosen your way, I've chosen mine."
I love Lily because she chooses a path to match her convictions, and chooses to live her life fighting for what is right. It is our choices that show who we truly are.

"UNTIL THE VERY END"
-- JK Rowling to Harry Potter fans at the beginning of Deathly Hallows, and James Potter to his son at the end of Deathly Hallows.
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