Religion in the wizarding world...

[raeredeyes]

One thing i was pondering today while driving home, was does the wizarding world have religion, and if they do, what is it based on?

They make references to Merlin...Could this be their equivalent to a god? Or just a figure of society, almost like a demi-god, but not a religious figure.?

[Cat]

Magic seems to be more like a craft than a religion. I think they take on the religions of Muggles.

[Tinkie]

Strange, I had never thought of that. I agree, I dont think that they view magic as religion or Merlin as a god or something. i think he is just one of the greatest for them, a figure to admire and have as example. I think they either follow the Muggles' religions or none at all. I mean they dont have to, do they?

[Cat]

Well if you consider Atheism as a religious standing, then that's one shared with Muggles as well

[jaded]

There is actually a lot of proof, such as subtle hints in the books, that supports Muggle religions (such as Christianity) in the wizard world. Harry as a Godfather, meaning there was a baptism. also, the name of a hospital: Saint Mungo's... I think there were several more examples, but these were just off the top of my head. We know JKR considers every little detail in the books

[Manyasha]

I think that wizards have the same religions as Muggles. They are Christian, Muslim, etc. The wizard world and our world are pretty much alike. I can't see why there should be such a major difference between them. Merlin was a great wizard, probably like Gryffindor and others. It doesn't mean that he is a god.
Just MHO.

[HogwartsChaplain]

Here's a copy of my article on aspects of religion and Christianity in HP. Later I did some research on Saint Mungo's Hospital, but didn't save that in wordprocessing, so that's among the stuff lost from MuggleNetForums.

- ------------ -

Religious Aspects of Harry Potter
~ ~ ~ by Evelyn J.P. Weston

During the past five years, Harry Potter has taken the world by magic. Four fantasy novels have been published, with three more still on the way. The blockbuster movie based on the first book premiered last November. Merchandise is everywhere and going fast. It seems people worldwide are talking about J.K. Rowling's teenage wizard-in-training.

Teachers and parents are talking about the wonderful way the books have drawn many children to reading. Church leaders and members are talking, too, but much said is critical of what is seen as the demonic in the books. Heated discussions, condemnations, and book-burnings by Christians have grieved the hearts of many children, teens, and adults who have come to love Harry, especially those who confess the Christian faith.

How the Christian community has responded to tales of fantasy and magic has been mixed throughout the years. Traditional fairy tales, often including magic and magical beings, have been deemed appropriate by most Christian families. C.S. Lewis' The Chronicles of Narnia and J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings (both written by Christians) initially suffered condemnations similar to Harry Potter, but both classic series are now praised by most of the Christian community.

There is nothing specifically religious about the Harry Potter books. Some people think the wizardry and magic in this fantasy story cannot mix with Christianity. However, there are points within the stories that favor a Christian interpretation.

Christmas is celebrated in a cultural way at Hogwarts School. The winter school break is called the "Christmas holiday." While there are Christmas trees, decorations, presents, dinner, etc., there is no worship of Christ mentioned. However, in one scene the armor at the school sings “O Come, All Ye Faithful,” a Christian carol, and not something more secular such as “Deck the Halls.” Easter is observed in a similar manner, with the spring school break being called the "Easter holiday." Again, there is no worship of Christ mentioned. But it could be argued that Hogwarts is at least as "Christian" as most public schools in the United States.

On the other hand, neither is there any mention of any pagan, Wiccan, cultic, or satanic rituals, signs, or celebrations anywhere in the books. None of the wizards or witches notes the arrival of the full moon-- a traditional time for pagan worship-- or does anything of special religious significance at any time. The author reports that the magic spells are derived from Latin phrases, not real incantations.

One character in the books is a ghost called the Fat Friar. By his very name, we can assume he was a Christian. Becoming a Roman Catholic monk requires an initiation process lasting several years, culminating in vows to serve Christ. It would have been difficult to pass that level of scrutiny with a fraudulent faith in God. In one scene, the Fat Friar suggests to some students that an appropriate response to an attack would be for them to forgive.

Sirius Black is identified as Harry's godfather. This could be a sign that Harry has received Christian baptism. Sometimes godfathers and goddessmothers are connected with the Wiccan dedication rite of Wiccaning, which can be used with babies. This would be comparable to the christening or dedication of an infant in some Christian denominations, but would not be comparable to Christian baptism. However, there has been no mention of what rite was used whereby Sirius became Harry's godfather. At least through book four, how Sirius became Harry's godfather is left to the reader's interpretation.

A thematic tie with Christianity is seen in the form of sacrifice for the sake of another. Harry's mother died at the hand of the evil wizard Lord Voldemort, but Lily Potter's love protected her son from certain death. Years later, wise Headmaster Dumbledore tells Harry, "To have been loved so deeply, even though the person who loved us is gone, will give us some protection forever." Upon reading this, many Christian youth have come to a fresh understanding of Christ's sacrifice, and how Christ's enduring love protects God's children forever.

The basic story is a classic tale of good versus evil. One evil wizard says, "There is no good and evil, there is only power, and those too weak to seek it." But Harry and those on the side of good know otherwise, and the strong power they use to protect the good in their world is the same as the fruit of the Holy Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and self control.

The Harry Potter books are entirely fictional. It is up to each individual to infer whatever religious identifications they see in the story and the characters. But there is much to be commended in Rowling's gripping tales of "the boy who lived."

- ------------- -

[jaded]

Great article, Evelyn! It makes a lot of sense, and I like what you've said in it.

[Manyasha]

:yup: It is really a good article. I agree totally.

[HogwartsChaplain]

Thanks, jaded. If I remember correctly, you were in on the discussion of religion in HP on MNet. Do you remember any other ideas that I've forgotten? I should have copied that whole thread to wordprocessing.... :censored:

[dorcasderr]

Evelyn's points are well thought out and well presented and I agree whole-heartedly. I wish those who haven't even read the books wouldn't condemn them out of hand. The same people probably read their children "MARY POPPINS" and so forth with no problem.

[Alicia_Potter]

I also think that Evelyn's article was amazing. Very well written and thought out. I also think that the religion in the wizarding world is parallel to the religion in the muggle world.

[Tarawyn]

It was very well written, and I'm impressed with the amount of thought you put into it. I'd think that wizards would share the same religions that we do, and acknowledge them in the same ways. Because we haven't seen anyone separating themselves in a way so that it becomes obvious what their religion means doesn't mean there aren't people in the books who are (or were) religious. The majority of people who I know don't let their religions interfere with their everyday lives.

Merlin seems to have been a very powerful wizard in the far past, and possibly mythology. I doubt they associate him to religion.

[cristalfairy]

Originally posted by jaded
There is actually a lot of proof, such as subtle hints in the books, that supports Muggle religions (such as Christianity) in the wizard world. Harry as a Godfather, meaning there was a baptism. also, the name of a hospital: Saint Mungo's... I think there were several more examples, but these were just off the top of my head. We know JKR considers every little detail in the books

I agree, also they have the fat fraiar, and the armors sing oh come all ye faithful, so there is religion, in the wizarding world

[raeredeyes]

This is another one of Leah's big Der! moments. I have them a lot.
Now i see i have not being paying much attention. Of course there is so much evidence of Christianity in the books, it would be evident that the wizarding world followed at least one variation...

I have become so entrenched in consumerism and atheism, that i forgot the most evident one - christmas. I totally forgot that that actually is a religious holiday. *sigh*

[daniel4hp]

While all religious references in the books could be explained away as merely references to British culture, you must remember that the wizards largely grew up away from mugggles and would, as a result, not be likely to follow the same exact culture. It would seem probable that wizards follow all the same religions as muggles, since wizards, as well as muggles, would likely be converted. It would seem that wizards born to muggle parents would get 11 years worth of religion and would likely not want to give this up when they entered the wizarding world--religion is something people feel strongly about. Of course, it could also be argued that this is how muggle culture entered, but it seems to me improbable that there is no religion in the wizarding world, or that they have their own religion (since they wouldn't celebrate "pagan" holidays). It seems most likely to me that they follow all the religions of the muggle world.

[Tinkie]

Great article evelyn, it really made me think. i had never really thought about these things in this way, although i was constantly tryng to find something that showed that HP did not have anything demonic in it. i couldnt believe that they could attack this book. i mean as you say you can read anything in any book, it depends on your general viewpoint. you can have the most innocent book and find traces of evil and read things as certain symbols if you really believe that.
Anyway. the fact that Sirius is a godfather had slipped through my mind when i was thinking about this topic and Christmas holidays as well.

[HogwartsChaplain]

The Bible does speak out against witchcraft:

Leviticus 19:26b, NRSV
You shall not practice augury or witchcraft.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14, NRSV
When you come into the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the abhorrent practices of those nations. No one shall be found among you who makes a son or daughter pass through fire, or who practices divination, or is a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or anyone who casts spells, or who consults with ghosts or spirits, or who seeks oracles from the dead. For whomever does these things is abhorrent to the LORD; it is because of such abhorrent practices that the LORD your God is driving them out before you. You must remain completely loyal to the Lord your God. Although these nations that you are about to dispossess do give heed to soothsayers and diviners, as for you, the LORD your God does not permit you to do so.

Also, King Saul consulted a "witch" to foresee the outcome of a battle, and the result was that Saul and his sons lost their lives in the battle the next day. God wasn't happy with Saul! (see 1st Samuel 28:3-20, 31:1-6)

The problem with "witchcraft" (and HP, in the minds of many Christians) is that it encourages people to place their trust in something other than God. To do that is to break the First Commandment-- to have no other gods but the One True God. But this is a constant problem with all people of faith, because it's easier to trust our own powers, or our world's powers, than trust the God whom we can only know through faith.

Harry Potter is fiction, and as long as it is used for good-- and not actual lessons in witchcraft-- I don't think it really causes problems. Problems do arise, however, when people condemn something they haven't taken the time to understand. IMHO

[jaded]

Originally posted by HogwartsChaplain
Harry Potter is fiction, and as long as it is used for good-- and not actual lessons in witchcraft-- I don't think it really causes problems. Problems do arise, however, when people condemn something they haven't taken the time to understand. IMHO

Couldn't have said it better myself. just because we read it, doesn't mean we believe that it is read or put it before God.

[Cat]

Originally posted by HogwartsChaplain

To do that is to break the First Commandment-- to have no other gods but the One True God. .

Hold up! Sorry to get into a debate that isn't really Harry Potter, but witchcraft isn't a religious practise. It doesn't generally have gods. How is that breaking the first commandment?

(I could also bring up the fact when somebody's big description was 'wise man' it meant wizard. Three wizards stood before Jesus. There's more proof but I can't remember it... something to do with Magi. Might that be a holy pardon?)