GT #25 - Of Responses and Relationships

[Rayjo]

Discussion for the Gryffindor Tower #25 - Of Responses and Relationships by Dan Hoppel Jr.

[Till]

Good editorial, even tough I dissagree completely with the Snape's-not-evil thing, Dan's editorials are always worth reading, and couldn't agree more with the first part.
Touches on something I had not even thought about yet:
The whole fanbase community is going to be judged by the behaviour of these particulairly bitter H/Hr shippers. And that sucks.

[Manxita]

Couldn't agree more with the shipping part of the article! And it's true, we have a hard enough time trying to show people that HP is not just a kiddie book series without all this "shipping" controversy...I wish it would stop already...also, very interesting answers to the questions!

[Robb]

Originally Posted by Till

The whole fanbase community is going to be judged by the behaviour of these particulairly bitter H/Hr shippers. And that sucks.

That was a great point that he brought up, and one that I hadn't thought of.

I had two points that I wanted to bring up that I emailed to Dan,

--Voldemort was trying to get the job so that he could get to the Sword and the Hat. During that scene, which is my favorite in the book, Dumbledore comes right out and says that Tom obviously doesn't want the job, he wants something else. After the memory, Harry asks Dumbledore what he wanted (or something to that effect) and Dumbledore says that he can't say until they get the Slughorn memory. This makes me believe that Voldemort was trying to get to Hogwarts to get after more horcruxes. So that, in turn, leaves two possibilites:

1. He was wanting to make more horcruxes.
2. He had already made horcruxes, and left them at school thinking them safe.

Dumbledore displayed brilliant magic while enterring the cave, far more than I think Harry could be capable of in just the time of one year, so it would make sense that Harry wouldn't have to run out and find more places like the cave, but that he has to go back to the Chamber of Secrets to get more horcruxes. Plus that will keep him near his peers and all the characters we're used to at Hogwarts.

--Another point I thought Dan came very close to making, but never quite made a true connection to was that Harry could very well be a horcrux, and still not have to die. The nature of the destoryed horcruxes we know of are that they are still existent. The Diary and the Ring are both purged of the soul of Voldemort, but they're still around. The locket, which no one could open (am I right with that?), is probably still a horcrux since no one can open it. So with the three horcruxes that we know of, two of them are still around, but they have no more of Voldemort's soul in them. So perhaps Harry can destroy the bit of Voldemort's soul from him without killing himself? This is problematic if the sign of a horcrux is the lightning bolt, becuase Dumbledore says that Harry "will have that scar forever," and I'll believe Dumbledore on this one.

-Robb.

I'm sure other people have brought this up... but...

On your lightning bolt/horcrux theory, Riddle's diary doesn't have a lightning bolt as we know it. And, considering how Harry examined it trying to read it, I think we would know.

Also, I do not believe Harry is a horcrux, and if he is, there is no way he could survive the removal of the horcrux. I mean, yeah, the ring is still a ring, but it has a great crack in it. Harry cannot have a big crack in his head. The diary remained a diary, but it has a great hole in it. Harry cannot have a great big hole in his head.

Also, the only way Voldemort could have made Harry into a horcrux is on accident because he did not know he would be unsuccessful in killing Harry. If it is so difficult to create a horcrux out of a living thing I do not think Voldemort would have done it on accident. He may have been capable, but I don't think he could on accident.

That's pretty much it... but good editorial, I've always enjoyed reading Gryffindor Tower

[aditi]

Just a comment on the Harry as a Horcrux idea; if Harry were made into a horcrux it would have had to be inadvertently. Voldemort went there to kill Harry to prevent what he thought the prophecy foretold. Hence the avada kedavra, the sacrifice and the living boy, not quite living Voldemort. If Voldemort went there to make Harry into a horcrux, he wouldn’t have been so surprised he lived, and would probably tried to prevent losing his own body.



I think that somehow the protection of Lily’s sacrifice may have accidentally created a horcrux. And that in GOF, during Voldemort re-bodyfication, the steps he took (taking Harry’s blood) might prevent him from removing the part of his soul that is currently lodged in Harry. Hence the gleam of triumph in Dumbledore’s eyes when Voldemort can touch Harry without harm.

[Desraelda]

The shippers are allowed their thing just as much as us non-shippers. Despite, as Jo herself put it, anvil-sized clues that Ron and Hermione would be together, many cling to hope and their own ships. There are also many who cling to hope that Sirius is not dead and Dumbledore is not dead. Sometimes it's just hard to let go.

I don't believe the Sorting Hat is actually a relic of Godric Gryffindor. Yes, it belonged to him, but in Melissa and Emerson's interview, Jo said,

ES: Has the sorting hat ever been wrong?

JKR: No.

ES: Really?

JKR: Mm-mm. Do you have a theory?

ES: I have heard a lot of theories.

JKR: [laugh] I bet you have. No. [laugh] Sorry.

MA: That's interesting, because that would suggest that the voice comes more from a person's own head than the hat itself -

JKR: [makes mysterious noise]

MA: And that maybe when it talks on its own it comes from -

JKR: The founders themselves.

I take that to mean that the hat came from Godric, but since its voice comes from all four founders, that it became part of all of them.

Glad you bawled like a baby, too. From the last para of The Cave, I started crying and had to put the book down. I was in total denial as to where things were going despite Dumbledore's obvious passing of the torch words.

[rotes_haar]

Thank you for addressing the shipping war. But I would like to point out some things I have noticed about the Horcruxes.

First is the black ring. Voldemort may have, in fact, got his Gryffindor artefact. Marvolo says that the ring had on it the Peverell crest and that it had been in his family for centuries. In no way did that have to mean it belonged to Slytherin. Well, after some digging, it has been revealed that one of Peverell's coats of arms (in real life, that is) looks like this:

Peverell Crest

Who else that we know of in the Potterverse has that coat of arms? It may very well be that Gryffindor hailed from Peverell and this is his ring, either given to, or stolen by Slytherin. After all, Peverell is not some sort of common name to be throwing around, specially when it has THAT crest linked to it.


Next, about Harry being a Horcrux, I have a strong feeling that he is not. Dumbledore isn't sure about Nagini being a Horcrux, just because he has not come into contact with her. However, Dumbledore, who possibly knows just a little bit more about Horcruxes than Voldemort, has had six years in which he could inspect Harry. Hasn't he always suspected Voldemort of making Horcruxes? After noticing Harry's powers and scar, I think his first project would have been some sort of observation and testing of Harry to find out whether he is or isn't a Horcrux.

Also, the ring's stone... unfortunately, I have seen a cracked stone in real life, and that's just the normal way that they split. Plus, the crack came AFTER the breaking of a Horcrux, not before.

[Desraelda]

Originally Posted by rotes_haar

First is the black ring. Voldemort may have, in fact, got his Gryffindor artefact. Marvolo says that the ring had on it the Peverell crest and that it had been in his family for centuries. In no way did that have to mean it belonged to Slytherin. Well, after some digging, it has been revealed that one of Peverell's coats of arms (in real life, that is) looks like this:

I have to agree with you about the ring. The lion rampant on the crest is a dead giveaway that it once belonged to a Gryffindor family. We know that the locket belonged to Slytherin and the cup to Hufflepuff. That leaves Ravenclaw.

[Strider62442]

If Harry is a Horcrux than I would say that it had to be an accident. Voldemort planned to create the last Horcrux with Harry's murder. But based on Slughorn's description of making Horcrux's there is some spell involved to make it happen.

But the scar connects Harry with voldemort and allows him access to his thoughts and feelings. Some part of Voldemort's soul must be inside harry. It doesnt mean harry would have to die to kill Voldemort though, because that wouldnt make any sense with the prophecy. If Harry only lives to destroy the Horcruxes and dies destroying the Horcrux in himself, he wont be able to finish off the last part in Voldemort's body.

I think the moment Harry was possesed in OotP shows the best clues as to how harry can win and live. Whenever harry encountered voldemort and lived it was because his soul is intact and still capable of love. Dumbledore said that trying to posess harry cause voldemort "mortal agony" If Harry could use his connection to voldemort to posess him voldemort's shattered soul would be no match for Harry's whole one. Harry's soul would go through Voldemort's like **** through a goose.

[gemzroze34]

I don't think Harry is a Horcrux. I just don't see how that makes sense, since Lord Voldemort would have to kill part of himself to kill Harry. Another thing, I'm sure Dumbledore is dead. He probably could have prevented it, but one of Dumbledore's greatest traits is that he understands death is not to be feared. I'm still firmly believe Snape is a DE, but your opinion is always worth considering!

Oh and the Pendragon series, YAY! They aren't that popular, but they really are worth reading!

[The Gray Lady]

[quote] I think that the sixth horcrux is Harry. --about ten million people

The thought struck me too, but the question is…why? Why would Voldemort do that, knowing that, if he kills Harry, then he is destroying part of his own soul? [quote]

In CoS when DD explained to Harry how he became a Parseltongue he said the night LV gave him the scar he transferred some of his powers to him BY ACCIDENT. Here’s my take on what happened:

Because of LV’s life experience he would not have anticipated what we find so obvious, a mother standing in between danger and her son. He expected her to move aside instead of dying for him so he, after killing James, ascended the stairs while reciting the incantation so the next kill would create the HCX. He had wanted to use Harry since the prophecy indicated he would become a powerful wizard possibly making the HCX even more powerful, just like his insistence upon 7 of them and his insistence upon using Harry’s blood in the GoF potion to restore his body. When Lily refused to move he was forced to use her instead, having already been locked into the incantation. When he killed her the HCX was created. He thought he would just quickly bump off Harry & look for the Gryffindor/Hufflepuff object he expected to be there (probably Gryffindor since it was Godrick’s Hollow & the house belonged to Gryffindors) to put the HCX in but when the AK rebounded he essentially dropped it and it fell into the object his mind was last focused on – Harry.

[MagicLantern]

I really enjoyed reading this editorial. Upbeat, logical, and entertaining. (Well, in my opinion, except for the Snape bit).

[Canis_Major]

Nice Job, couldn't agree more about the shipping wars.

Originally Posted by rotes_haar

Dumbledore isn't sure about Nagini being a Horcrux, just because he has not come into contact with her. However, Dumbledore, who possibly knows just a little bit more about Horcruxes than Voldemort, has had six years in which he could inspect Harry. Hasn't he always suspected Voldemort of making Horcruxes? After noticing Harry's powers and scar, I think his first project would have been some sort of observation and testing of Harry to find out whether he is or isn't a Horcrux.

"Unless I'm much mistaken, he transfered some of his powers to you the night he gave you that scar. Not Something he intended to do, I'm sure...'Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?' Harry said thunderstruck 'It certainly seems so' " (DD and Harry 333 COS)

DD has a long history of telling Harry important information, but downplaying the significance (like telling him the thing in the diary was a memory). Harry has some of Voldemort's powers and access to his ideas, sounds like there is something of his (like a soul bit ) in Harry. Just because Voldemort didn't mean for it to happen, doesn't mean it didn't.

[The Gray Lady]

Originally Posted by Till

The whole fanbase community is going to be judged by the behaviour of these particulairly bitter H/Hr shippers. And that sucks.

Respectfully, half of this argument is Emerson. He won't let it die down.

[MidlifeCrisis]

There are many excellent points here which are drawing me to the conclusion that Harry might, in fact, be a Horcrux. However, I still doubt it because of the way the other Horcruxes have behaved. Voldemort seems to either have some kind of control over them (e.g., Nagini, the diary) or to have placed powerful curses and protections around them (the ring, and originally, the locket before it left its hiding place). Harry's certainly not protected from harm. Harry's not really acting on Voldy's orders or under his control (as we know from Ginny), so I wonder how he could be a Horcrux when he doesn't seem to share any of their characteristics.

Are Harry's Voldy-enhanced powers a by-product of Horcrux creation? As many have already pointed out, this means Voldy destroys a bit of himself if he kills Harry. It is always possible that he doesn't know that Harry is a Horcrux - he doesn't seem to feel it when they are destroyed, so perhaps he doesn't know when they are created, either. (In other words, as he created the others, there was no sign to him that he had been successful, and he just had to take it for granted...but that doesn't make much sense either.)

This is going to kill me until Book 7 comes out...I'm trying not to dwell on how long that's going to be!

[mrsweasley5]

If Harry [i]is a HCX, then all of those "changeling hypothesis" proponets are correct...at least in part.

Oh...and I worry about the utter desperation of some of the H/Hr shippers. There's got to be something else going on in their lives that's not pleasant. They're not crazy.(Well...just like in the general population, I suppose some COULD be.) They just need to work some things out.

[ladykrystyna]

The greatest thing about this editorial is the part about the shipping! I am so done listening to the shipping wars go on and on and on and . . .welll you get my point.

Well said!

[Robb]

Reading through these it makes so much more sense for Harry to be a horcrux. If the series is based on choice, like Jo says it is, isn't the biggest choice Harry choosing to use the powers that he shares with Voldemort for good? Dumbledore said it was inadvisable to make a horcrux out of something that could htink for itself. So the arrogance of Voldemort to rip his soul in half so many times finally comes back to destroy him when one of the times he chose to give his soul to something full of sacrificial love? It is a lot more clear to me than this message is to those who read it, no doubt. If that helped anyone, we'll see.

-Robb.

[Fali]

Really cool editorial! My favourite part is this?

The thought struck me too, but the question is…why? Why would Voldemort do that, knowing that, if he kills Harry, then he is destroying part of his own soul? There’s only one logical explanation to Harry being a horcrux. Dumbledore has said many times that Voldemort’s greatest weakness is his refusal to believe that there can be anything worse than death. Harry knows there is much worse than death…suffering, for instance, over the loss of loved ones. If Voldemort turned Harry into a horcrux, knowing that Harry would have to kill himself to kill Voldemort, then that would make Voldemort believe that he’s invincible, since, in his mind, no one would sacrifice themselves to kill another. Now…where it gets interesting…We know that Dumbledore destroyed Marvolo Gaunt’s ring, that is to say, he destroyed the…I don’t know…horcrux part of it? The odd thing is, it is mentioned that the jewel in the ring is cracked, which may not seem important. There is, however, an artist’s rendering of the ring on the Bloomsbury web site (fans-ecards). The ring has a zigzagging crack running down it…shaped like, say, a bolt of lightning. We don’t know if turning something into a horcrux leaves a mark of some sort…nor do we know if one can inadvertently turn something or someone into a horcrux. Voldemort did kill two people on the night that Harry received his lightning-bolt scar. Could a lightning-bolt mark be the sign of a created horcrux? It seems entirely possible…and to all of you thinking that Harry must die: I have thought since Book Five that Harry was going to die at the end…this doesn’t mean I want it to happen. But think about the fact that Dumbledore destroyed the ring, yet it’s still physically there. Maybe Harry can destroy the horcrux that he is without killing himself.

It's really quite interesting. I love the way it's put together. Put surly the ring might've been damaged in some way and it's not a living thing so we don't know what effects being it might have on Harry (if and if only Harry is a Horcrux). Just a thought, maybe Harry might not be a Horcrux at all.

As for being delusional, some people actually thought that Dan Hoppel Jr. was actually Daniel Radcliffe! (WOW! They certainly need to do their homework before emailing!)

Fali