Is Four the Magic Number?

[SharonDWB]

Discussion for the Burrow article Is Four the Magic Number? by Ginny S. Spoiler warning!

[BJTexan]

Interesting editorial...

I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it.

I agree that there is a big possibility that there are horcruxes at hogwarts and that Harry will be returning there for school despite his statement at the end of HBP. I also agree that the Riddle House will be important in Book 7. There will probably be a duel there between Harry and LV or maybe just his Death Eaters, but I expect Harry to return there when looking for The Dark Lord. Also, I think it likely that Kreacher and 12 Grimmauld Place will play significant roles in Book 7.

I disagree that the piece of soul in LV's body was destroyed. When we here the description of horcruxes by Slughorn he says the horcruxes "anchor" the wizard's soul to the earth. This makes it sound like the soul is not destroyed, but made to stay in the land of the living without its body. Also, if Bellatrix and co. had resurrected the Dark Lord from one of his horcruxes, surely he would have promptly asked them to help him with the potion to return him to a body instead of going to hang out in Albania for 15 years.

With all tha said I thought it was a great editorial and enjoyed reading it. I think the Burrow is a great place for editorials that are little bit crazier than most and I liked how you went out on a limb with yours. And don't think I'm insulting your editorial as being outlandish, I wrote 2 articles for the Burrow this month and both are just as, if not more, unlikely as yours. So, loved the editorial and keep up the good work.

[AnimagHedwig]

Good editorial, but I don't think that LV's horcrux (in his body) was destroyed when he tried to kill Harry. Also, I believe that Lucius Malfoy had the Diary and Lucius placed it in Ginny's "stuff" at Flourish and Blott's.

[Daydreams]

Hmm, quite an interesting editorial. Certainly got me thinking, which is what an editorial should very well do, so well done!

My question is, if the soul inside of the body of Voldemort was destroyed when the Killing Curse rebounded, what would Voldemort have been? Could a mind exist without a soul inside of it, even if several pieces of his soul were scattered around the country (or world, even)? It's kind of an abstract concept to explain. Hope someone understands what I'm trying to say; I'd love to hear others' ideas on this.

[alyakez808]

I don't quite agree with most of the editorial but you never know.

[am3lia]

No way! VOldemort's horcrux was not kileld when the curse rebounded! Utterly false!

The point of a horcrux is that when your body is killed your soul will stay on this earth because part of it is kept in an object on earth, untouched, therefore keeping the entirey of the soul on earth. And in that form he wandered as a spirit "less than the meanest ghost" until he and Wormtail got together and formed him a body.

I got that far in the editorial then stopped reading.

No way! VOldemort's horcrux was not kileld when the curse rebounded! Utterly false!

The point of a horcrux is that when your body is killed your soul will stay on this earth because part of it is kept in an object on earth, untouched, therefore keeping the entirey of the soul on earth. And in that form he wandered as a spirit "less than the meanest ghost" until he and Wormtail got together and formed him a body.

I got that far in the editorial then stopped reading.

[RedSparks]

I think Voldemort's soul survived when the curse rebounded - that was the point of making a Horcrux. It anchors the soul to earth, effectively making one immortal.

Voldemort has also told Harry that death might be painless, but he wouldn't knwo as he has never died.

Also, I doubt that Bellatrix knows as much about the Horcruxes as this editorial indicates. Dumbledore tells us that he thinks the DE did not really know what Voldemort meant when he said he had gone further than anyone on the path to immortality. Dumbledore suspects that he is the only one who guessed the full extent - that there were multiple Horcruxes. If she had known and it was necessary to do a spell to get him to be Vapormort, he probably would have been mad if she didn't restore him to a full body as well since she definitely would have known he was alive.

[am3lia]

wow i definately had the same thing twice in my reply. ignore it.

thanks.

Originally Posted by RedSparks

Voldemort has also told Harry that death might be painless, but he wouldn't knwo as he has never died.

wow i never thought of it like that. its amazing what we can glean from harry potter by simple one liners.

[cenzonico]

Do you think it would be possible that the cup Mundungus had could be Hufflepuff's? Maybe there are two horcruxes in Grimmauld Place.

[rhbz]

Of course the soul in him died, why would he make horcruxes otherwise?

[Rictemsempra]

Hm...interesting points here. However, didn't You-Know-Who tell us he felt his soul rip out of his body in the graveyard scene in GoF? The part of his soul couldn't have been destroyed when he tried to kill Harry.

As for Hufflepuff's cup being in Hogwarts, I seem to vaguely recall J.K. Rowling mentioning somewhere that Harry would go back to Hogwarts...but why would You-Know-Who put his Horcrux right under Dumbledore's nose?

Also, why would You-Know-Who (no, I won't stop calling him that) leave Nagini back in Riddle's house? He'd have Nagini with him.

After thinking about it, the part about Neville's parents and Bellatrix sounds plausible, Bellatrix is even more a pure-blood maniac than You-Know-Who, and would automatically assume he'd've gone to Neville, and may have know about the Horcruxes, she seems to be one of the most loyal Death Eaters, and You-Know-Who said he'd told the Death Eaters he'd take steps toward immortality...

Overall, good editorial, really got me thinking.

[Daydreams]

Originally Posted by cenzonico

Do you think it would be possible that the cup Mundungus had could be Hufflepuff's? Maybe there are two horcruxes in Grimmauld Place.

I'm not sure, but I think that the cup Mudungus had had the Black family crest on it. I'm looking up on it to double check, but if not, that's certainly a possbility.

[Switchfoot]

I'm not entirely sure about this Editorial. It's well written, and the points are quite well made, but I just don't think there's enough proof. I don't think it's possible the part of Voldemort's soul residing in his body was destroyed that night in Godrics Hollow. His body died, sure, but the soul part of it was saved thanks to the Horcruxes. This allowed him to exist in the form popularly know as "Vapourmort".

I also am of the belief that R.A.B (Regulus or otherwise) failed to destroy the Locket Horcrux, and it was in fact the "heavy locket" that was found while the children cleaned out Grimmauld Place.

You might be onto something with the Longbottom's knowing some important information though. It would explain their torture more thouroughly than "The Death Eaters were angry". As to what this information could be, I'm not sure.

[chaosxwolf]

wow, i never thought that hufflepuff's cup could have been in the ROR, but that is a very interesting Idea. I did, howerver, think that the HBP stole the book from lily, as she was "suposed" to play a larger role then she did. But those cureses didnt seem like lilly..... Snape, using peperment?

[plainlypotter]

Originally Posted by BJTexan

Interesting editorial...

I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it.

I agree that there is a big possibility that there are horcruxes at hogwarts and that Harry will be returning there for school despite his statement at the end of HBP. I also agree that the Riddle House will be important in Book 7. There will probably be a duel there between Harry and LV or maybe just his Death Eaters, but I expect Harry to return there when looking for The Dark Lord. Also, I think it likely that Kreacher and 12 Grimmauld Place will play significant roles in Book 7.

I disagree that the piece of soul in LV's body was destroyed. When we here the description of horcruxes by Slughorn he says the horcruxes "anchor" the wizard's soul to the earth. This makes it sound like the soul is not destroyed, but made to stay in the land of the living without its body. Also, if Bellatrix and co. had resurrected the Dark Lord from one of his horcruxes, surely he would have promptly asked them to help him with the potion to return him to a body instead of going to hang out in Albania for 15 years.

With all tha said I thought it was a great editorial and enjoyed reading it. I think the Burrow is a great place for editorials that are little bit crazier than most and I liked how you went out on a limb with yours. And don't think I'm insulting your editorial as being outlandish, I wrote 2 articles for the Burrow this month and both are just as, if not more, unlikely as yours. So, loved the editorial and keep up the good work.

Bj

As usual your argument is cogent and well thought out - I couldn't have said it better -

[BJTexan]

To everyone who has mentioned the locket

I agree that the locket at 12 Grimmauld Place was definitely a horcrux. However, most people seem to think that the part of The Dark Lord's soul that was/is in the locket has not been destroyed. I think that if the locket was still an active horcrux when the trio tried to open it, it probably would have hurt them in some way. We know the diary was aggressive, and we saw what the ring did to Dumbledore's hand. This makes me think that the soul in the locket was destroyed by R.A.B (or Mr. Borgin as I like to call him.)

Additionally, people say that it is still a horcrux because it shows no damge like the diary and the cracked ring. However, what if the damage to the locket was that it melted together? Then that would take care of the damage part and explain why it could not be opened.

Thus, I think the locket was a horcux but is not anymore.

P.S. If the enchantments around the ring, and not the ring itself, hurt Dumbledore's hand, then there is a large hole in my theory. However, the fact that we at one point saw Dumbledore wearing the ring makes me think the ring itself did that to his hand. It was probably a lot like Dumbledore finding out the only way to get rid of the potion was to drink it, thus the only way to get rid of the ring was to wear it. The Dark Lord does seem to have a thing about forcing people to weaken themselves to get to his horcruxes (ex. gate that needs blood, and the potion that weakened Dumbledore).

[Emynet]

I for one, think that this is a great editorial. I really hope that what you theorize plays out in book 7. By the time Harry find's 4 horcux's, duels with the Death Eaters, and learn his defensive skills such as occlumency, duels with Voldemort and all the other backstory we're (hopefully) going to get, book 7 will be over a thousand pages long. I think it will be much easier for Jo to make Harry only search for a couple horcrux's and explain how the others had already been destroyed.

[crevecoeur]

The thing that puzzled me most after reading and re-reading HBP was how little information we are given as to how the Horcrux Spell actually works. Obviously, precious few would know, and it may have taken Tom Riddle some time to figure it out. My guess, though, is that when one successfully casts the Killing Curse, it is possible to separate the split part of the soul from oneself and place it into the desired object at hand. However, the murder must actually be a done deed to create the horcrux; simply casting the curse is not enough, it must fulfill its object. What happened in Godric's Hollow was unusual in the extreme, because Harry did not die. Voldemort's soul, being anchored to this world by the other horcruxes, was torn from his body as his physical being was destroyed by the rebounding curse. His soul didn't tear when he tried to kill Harry, because he didn't succeed in committing the intended murder. The real question I have is whether Tom Riddle intended to create seven horcruxes or to have a soul in seven parts (with one part in his proper body). This would be a great one to ask JK. If it was a seven-part soul Voldemort was after, Harry may indeed be looking for one horcrux too many. However, I suspect that Voldemort wanted seven horcruxes but failed to create the last one, which leaves us where we were: six items - diary, cup, locket, ring, Nagini, and one mystery relic. If I'm right, there's another interesting question: What trophy did Voldemort intend to use for the Harry-Horcrux, and did Dumbledore have Hagrid salvage it from the ruins of the Potter house? Was Harry even intended to be the seventh murder, or was he perhaps only the sixth? Does this have any bearing on why Voldemort didn't want to kill Lily in that moment? Lots of questions, not many answers until we know how a horcrux spell actually works (and that's not likely until book 7).

[Hpmppw]

This Horcrux business is so confusing trying to figure it out gives me a headache.

Great editorial. Oooo- so much in there to think about.

Obviously we don’t know what happened that Halloween night, but the fact the house was blown apart is a big clue to the fact that it was not your average Avada Kedavra. Did his soul die? Well, Dumbledore said that he was vanquished that night. He had no body, so if there was no soul, what was the residue that allowed him not to die?

I love the idea of Snape nicking Lily’s book- it would explain how “not even Severus…” could do some of the potions work. Hmmmm.

I am not really on board with your theory about the Longbottoms, but I think it’s brilliant that you’re second guessing the “thin” reason we’ve been given for their torture.

Re: the number of Horcruxes: I am split here- I am still skeptical that Nagini is one. We don’t know how Voldy used a wand that night in the Riddle House when he killed Frank Bryce, but it somehow doesn’t seem right that he would make a Horcrux so unceremoniously with Nagini, as well as splitting his soul is such a fragile state (whatever that was). But, I might believe that Voldy had already made her a horcrux before the night he killed the Potters. Why did Vapormort go to Albania? Maybe there was a Horcrux there- one that he could retrieve without a wand. One that resided in a sympathetic living being, like Nagini.

Dunno, obviously, but thanks for stirring the pot.