NT #43 - Hermione’s Punishment

[Rayjo]

Discussion for the North Tower #43 - Hermione’s Punishment.

[ESCUDERO]

great editorial she has become a lot more nasty but she's a teenage girl and they can be very mean and cruel she sort of reminds me of sirius and james in the penseive i think that she will mature in the next book and that when she hooks up with ron he'll keep her in check lol.

[_mione_]

Pretty brave of you, Maline! I'd have to give you that... Hermione's really not my favorite character now (I'm regretting my user name), but she's really not as bad as you've painted her either. True, I disliked her for wanting to be always above the rest (e.g. Potions in HBP: Migod! Girl, would you stop bringing one of your bestfriends down?!), but you've taken some of her personalities and tendencies out of context. In the end, what it comes down to is that Hermione did those things for what she thought was right. Don't we all do that? I do agree with you that she'd meet some form of "punishment;" however, it's quite a given as she is one of the lead characters.

[Robingirl]

Very brave editorial. I must disagree on a few points:

GoF: If she hadn't blackmailed her, she wouldn't have been able to get her to interview Harry for the Quibbler. Not to mention that she deserved it.

OotP: Umbridge was going crucio them. It was life and death. Not exactly death but pretty close.

HBP: Can't defend her there.

Still loved your editorial.

[kneazle_head]

....well wow. This is new.

It sounded pretty good at first - "ruthless" is a good word to describe her a bit I suppose....but I totally disagree with the points about Umbrige. She is seriously the nastitest git I've ever read about, and I think that Hermione was COMPLETELY justified in leading her into the forest - especially because by doing so she was trying to help Harry save Sirius's life!!!

As for Rita, I think she did the right thing there too. Rita was breaking the law, and if Hermione had turned her in, she'd have gone to Azkaban in all likelihood, which would be FAR worse than not writing for a year - and after what she did to Hagrid too!

And as for her actions towards Ron....well she DOES act a little differently than what we're used to seeing her act like most of the time, true, but sending canaries at him was pretty restrained of her in my opinion especially having been in a similar situation myself. Just because she and Ron weren't technically "together," I think at that point it was pretty obvious to both of them that they fancied each other - and when he went and ruined it all she was pretty upset.

And the house-elves - no comment! I can't even believe that!

Basically all my rambling means is that Hermione has grown up, but has not become evil, or even mean, really - she has a more agressive side like all of us. What about Harry and his ALL CAPS? and Ron's jealousy? All the characters have minor flaws, which is why they're realistic.

[Eric_Cartman]

I think if Ron and Hermione are together in book 7 and they stop arguing I think she'll become a much nicer character. But maybe they won't be together properly. I can see them putting their relationship pretty much on hold if the trio has to bond together to go up against Voldemort and the DEs. But I agree that something bad might happen to Hermione in book 7. If the trio confronted Voldemort he might kill her first just for being Muggle-born. Also, Umbridge might want to seek revenge on Hermione.

[ffortescue]

I think you make some excellent--albeit scary--points about Hermione's character. I'm just hoping that it's in the same vein as the Harry from OotP, something that she will grow out of in book 7.

[Erica]

While I think that was a very thought-provoking article, I feel that after reading the red hen link, it was really a summary of that article with some post-HBP additions. I look forward the the North Tower and check often to see if a new one is up, but I feel sort-of let down by this one. The link at the end of the editorial makes it obvious to me that this was not an original idea. I feel bad complaining about the usually great North Tower but I am pretty disappointed in the lack of originality with this one.

[Mpol]

I love Hermione now more than ever. You editorial had potencial as it touched up on some great subjects but didn't back them up well. Hermione wanted to help those she loved/cared about when she did those mean things. The Rita Skeeter incident shows that she is usually affected more by things thatn she leads on. Yes she reacted harsh to the article on Hagrid, but the ones about herself hurt her more than she did lead on. This is something JK I doubt will specifically look into but I think more character development from Hermione is going to happen in book seven that will put her previous actions into another light.

[Desraelda]

Did you mentiion that it was Hermione's idea to start the DA? I don't think you did. I also don't think you mentioned the scene in the DoM where the DE got caught in the bell jar. When he emerged, he had a baby's head. It was Hermione that stopped Harry from attacking him because it's not right to attack a baby. Even under the pressure of battle, Hermione is showing her compassion for another person.

Yes, Hermione cursed the sign-up sheet for the DA which caused the word SNEAK to be etched across Marietta's face. But Kingsley Shacklebolt carried it further when he modified her memory. He knew drastic action was called for. Marietta wasn't just being a tattle-tale. Her actions could and did cause serious repercussions in the wizarding world.

Umbridge was about to use an unforgivable on Harry and had also admitted that she set the dementors on him. This wasn't just a detention or the possiblity of being expelled. Her other friends were also in danger from Umbridge, not to mention the Inquisitorial Squad. Hermione knew she had to act quickly, and if there's one thing she's learned from being Harry's friend it's to get out of trouble fast. The kind of trouble Harry gets into is very deadly. Hermione did what needed to be done to save her friends and herself. And remember, her's was the only voice of reason when Harry wanted to break into Umbridge's office again.

Hermione's attitudes towards Ron in HBP are understandable. Hermione is older than Harry and Ron, so in that sense, she is more mature in many ways. But Hermione has not gone through the teenage girl/first crush stage until she's well over 17 years of age. She's acting out feelings she should have had when she was 12 or 13. In that sense, Hermione is a late bloomer, and if you don't realize that, it's easy to condemn the things that she did.

In the end, she says they've had plenty of time to turn back, and once again, this remarkable young woman is willing to put her life on hold (her budding relationship with Ron, her education) and follow her best friends into danger.

Hubris? I don't think so. Gryffindor? Absolutely.

[noblehouseb]

I think Maline's right, but I also think Hermione isn't becoming a "vindictive" person exactly, she's just reacting to the war and she's growing up. Everyone's making enemies. But i thought this was a very original article, and certainly interesting from the standpoint of hermione's character development, whether or not she is eventually "punished."

Originally Posted by Desraelda

I don't think you mentioned the scene in the DoM where the DE got caught in the bell jar. When he emerged, he had a baby's head. It was Hermione that stopped Harry from attacking him because it's not right to attack a baby. Even under the pressure of battle, Hermione is showing her compassion for another person.


Hubris? I don't think so. Gryffindor? Absolutely.

that's a good point--i liked maline's article, but the fact that she protected the "baby" was a sign she is not completely self centered...nice ending line...you should make it a persuasive speech :-)

[Stickz90210]

Hermione has always been one of my favorite charactars (dont worry this isnt a hate message) because she is really smart and when they have seen some type of questionable activites her reactions are usually similar to mine. she usually comes to the same conclusion.

i agree she is not a perfect little angel anymore but that was the kind of hermione that kind of annoyed me if anybody here reads the new jedi order series of starwars you'll know what im talking about when i say she reminds me of Borsk Fey'lya for those of you who dont read that series he is a polititian Chief of state prime minister whatever hes got the top job but he was the kind who refused to act or hesitated about bending a law to save billions of lives and as a result billions were lost and he eventually died because of his poor military actions the capital was taken and he with it (punishment).

I liked hermione when she started to break rules not like harry and ron with about 1 a day but she didnt hesitate anymore when it was necissary. When she blackmailed Rita Skeeter and put her in a jar I cant blame her after what she did to hagrid harry and hermione herself i would have done the same thing because the media is influencial and i knew that book 5 would be a tough time for harry because his story was really far fetched though true. and i would want payback i cant stand to see my friends hurt or in a situation where they cant do anything about a bully and no one else will help <i dont take_____(use your imagination)> .

now in OOTP about leading umbridge into the forest even if Umbridge was acting on what she believed right using an unforgivable curse is way too far, and forcing someone to write in their own blood rather cruel dont you think. then there is the fact that umbridge wasted about a full year of very important magical learning for a good many students at a very crucial period.

HBP i cant exactly defend her actions the smith and mclaggen thing was too far in my opinion, the airbourne attack was pretty cruel as well but, teenager, hormones , love very confusing and emotional. what can you say. In my opinion Ron was being rather ruthless with hermione anyway but thats for something else.

ok well i practically wrote my own editorial! lol. im just saying that when you pile everything up like that yeah she sounds rather evil but not all of it was unjustified. the causes were (Ron, Umbridge, Love, and yes revenge). Oh ya and i really did like the editorial the north tower is my favorite! im serious i loved this one these are the kinds i like though provoking ones where you have to think deeply not just the obvious answer thats what really makes me enjoy these editorials.

[mwahaha]

well that got me thinking...I don't know..I mean I never tought about Hermione that way..I would like to see in what does punishment consists..oh well,marvelous editorial and I'm really sorry u can't write more often
NT rules!

[BrittS]

I think that was a great editorial. I have to say that I've never thought of her that way, but, as with so many things, when put together side by side it makes perfect sense. I did find myself a little annoyed with Hermione in HBP because she just had to have the last word. At the end I thought...she can't seriously be saying that she was sort of right about the Half-Blood Prince. Anyway, very intriguing and it has me wondering what her comeupance will be. I don't know if it will be as harsh as death, but she may have a falling out with those she holds dear or possibly lose her parents in the war.

On a side note, I wonder what your major is. I assume you're in grad school b/c you mentioned teaching and professors, but you know what assuming does.... I've guessed some psych related field b/c of your use of moral development. But that's just a guess. I'm in grad school too, so I understand totally what you're going through if my assumption is correct.

I look forward to your next installment.

[klynnrose]

I think that Hermione will be punished before the series’ end, in the sense that something bad will happen to her as a direct result of her actions in the earlier books. She has always been a know-it-all, but in the last two books, I personally think that the confidence she has in her abilities and her tendency for moral relativism and vindictiveness are getting a little too close to the Ancient Greek sin of all sins: hubris. She’s a bit too sure of herself and is playing a bit too much with other people’s lives not to have somebody’s wrath come down on her, in my opinion - at least if JKR wants to keep some kind of moral to her story. Just because you’re on the “right” side doesn’t mean that you can behave however you want. The end doesn’t justify the means. We’re already had Crouch Sr. as an example of that. I’m not saying that Hermione will go the same way, but I do belive that her past “triumphs” will have consequences. Bad ones.

I have to say that JKR has stated many times that she did not set out to write books that stated a moral. As far as a punishment for Hermione, I would concider the fact that Ron hooked up with Lavander punishment. As JKR has said, "they are in the middle of a war, and war isn't nice." I am not saying that rule breaking and manipulating is all well and good. Actually, I am appauld at how much the 'good' guys get away with. I have to have talks with my children about not talking back to your elders, not lying, not being deceitful and following the rules that are set to keep them safe. But they see the 'bad' guys and want to make sure they don't win. The truth is that nobody wins in situations like these, but most of us know that the "real" world isn't neat and tidy and black or white. It is many shades of grey.

Yes, Hermione has changed her tactics and her motives. And, yes, she is growing up. Remember, this girl hasn't spent much time with her parents since she started at Hogwarts, her moral instruction has suffered. She is not soley apart of a single child home anymore, but of an entire wizarding world at war. She has changed, but I believe, she is still and remains essentially Hermione.

[Nox2040]

Ok, I think the first thing we have to look at is that Hermione is a teenage girl. Please, girls out there, tell me you wouldn't have shot birds at Ron for acting the way he did? I think her behavior in book 6 can just be blamed on hormones and high stress. Let's face it: they're at war. who isn't extremely stressed?

With that said, Hermione, like all the other characters, has changed a lot over the years, yet I don't think she's as ruthless and proud as Maline is making her out to be. I think that Hermione knows that she isn't very good at Defense Against the Dark Arts and that's another reason why she's very emotional in book 6. That is the one subject that is going to benefit them during a war and it's the one subject she didn't get an outstanding OWL in. It's like she said in the first book, everything isn't about books, and fighting is one thing that Hermione can't learn out of a book.

I also don't think Umbridge should be given as much credit as Maline gives her in this article. Her actions are not justified and Hermione had a right to protect herself and her friends from Umbridge by leading her into the forrest.

So, here is what I think about Hermione: she's scared. She's scared about what might happen to Ron and harry. She's scared that she might not be able to defend herself properly when it comes time to fight. She turned to her two best friends in book 6 for comfort and, i guess we can say that one was not always there for her, at least not until the last scene in the book when Ron comforts her.

Punished? I'm not so sure she will be punished by the end, but I do think that if Ron dies (which I think he will) that's going to deeply affect her. Will it punish her? No, but we need to all have a little more faith in Hermione. Sure she may not be able to fight like harry, but she does have the one thing that neither harry not ron has: she's book smart. In the end, that is going to be crucial in helping harry.

[NemorosaKnopp]

I think that Hermione sees her actions as perfectly justifyed. I agree that she has become more cruel, though and she has started using her brains in a manipulative fashion. I do love that bird scene in HBP though.....

[Shadow_Princess]

very good article, i can see where ya coming from, typical teenage girl, with a little more power than we have/had! :P i mean, me armed with a wand growing up= disaster!

[Faeralyn]

Great editorial! Hermione's obviously grown more and more ruthless as the story goes on, but your outlining the things she did really showed that she was changing...in a bad way.

"In the first chapter of this book, Dolores Umbridge sends two Dementors after Harry. This is attempted murder, or at least entrapment to get him expelled and perhaps even thrown into Azkaban. Further along in the book, she gives Harry a permanent scar on his hand by forcing him to write lines in his own blood. Now, Umbridge claims she does this to protect the Ministry and I actually believe her. I think she actually does believe Fudge and thinks that Harry is out to destroy the Ministry. From where she stands, she’s doing the right thing, protecting the things she believe in."

I don't know about this part, though. Those things were pretty darn sickening, and pretty much illegal. I do not believe that she is a DE (that's a whole other topic), but to go as far as to attempt murder on a boy who's simply trying to get his freedom of speech? It's not just censorship, it just seems like she was a bit too obsessed with having Fudge control the world. And if she thinks Fudge is correct on every, single thing, then why would she be so desperate to shut up a teenager who she thinks is just raving and telling lies? But I do agree on your saying that she's just trying to protect the Ministry.

[filozofgizem]

well OK she really is changing but as i see it she didnt do any wrong i mean if i were her i would give just the same punishments to those people .... its not being bad but its more like giving them what they deserve. but in HBP she really seemed a little selfish but think about it!!! she was used to being best in positions (acctually she is used to being best in many school subjects) and harry was getting ahead . and not by his own talent or effort but with help of a old book .. i think that didnt seem right to her!

but again you are right about the list of people wanting to hurt her its getting larger every book... honestly i expect more from her in the last book