Harry and Ginny -- Where to from here? v3

[IceKat55]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

That would completely undermine the story. Where would Ginny's choices be? Remember, the story focuses on people's choices: JKR cannot change the over-arching theme in the final book! (She can mess with the plot, but the point of a story is to tell a story, not a sequence of events.)

Not be be argumentive - - but this is not Ginny's story. She may have already made the only "choice" that Rowling wanted her to make, when she peacefully chose to let Harry break up with her and go play the hero. Not an easy choice for Ginny...but in the end, it may have been the right one. Only Book 7 will tell.

[Ania21]

Originally Posted by ProfJS

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm in agreement that Harry's death would in a very significant way make Lilly's sacrifice in vain. She surely did not intend her sacrifice in order for her son to vanquis Voldemort. She intended her sacrifice so that her son could have a happy life. So far he's had 11 years with the Dursely's, and 5 years of danger from Voldemort.

I'm puzzled as to where people see foreshadowing of Harry's death. I've seen several people say that, but no comments as to why they say that.

There was a genious editorial on that topic on MuggleNet, but I can't find it now. There was something about ** teaching Harry that deth is an adventure, about centaurs knowing the future and wishing Harry it won't happen, and Firenze saving Harry in the forest was changing the course of the future. Mars was bright just above Harry, and people Harry loves are dying. All he respects sacrificed themselfes and he's alone now. He keeps risking his life for others and he'll eventually do it again and die. The editorial always makes me cry, it ends with Harry being too wounded or exhausted to recover and Dumbledore tells him it's over, everything's fine now, Harry can let go, and join their loved ones. Though after **'s death it's impossible this way, Harry dying is still very possible scenario.

And I'm sure there are threads about Harry's death in book 7.

[SiriusSpells]

I think that Harry and Ginny will have a great relationship. It takes a lot of heart to do what Harry did and hide Ginny from Voldemort. I think that Harry and Ginny will marry near the end of Book Seven.

[ProfJS]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

There is a branch of stories known as "tragedies." These actually were very common in children's stories until the last century or so.

That's certainly true, but while there are certainly elements of tragedy present, I don't think the Harry Potter series is being written as a tragedy. JRK is on record discussing the series in the context of the mythic hero. In either case, of course, you can't absolutely prove or disprove any possibilities, but personally I don't think that the series is going to end as a huge tragedy.

Originally Posted by Wimsey

.......
...... Now, he might have made the Ring a Horcrux while a student: we do not know for sure when he learned how to make Horcruxes. We can be almost certain that it was a Horcrux when he killed Hepzibah Smith.

Hogwarts was very much safeguarded against Voldemort, and he could not return to search for Horcruxes, forcing him to adopt the subterfuge of wanting to return as a teacher. Given this, we can rule out the idea that he found a way after he left to sneak in and hide a new Horcrux. (Indeed, if he had, then why didn't he sneak in again and remove it to someplace safer?)

Your use of logic is very good. I would interpret some of the evidence somewhat differently and arrive at a different conclusion. At this point, I'll just make three relatively minor points:
(1) The diary was created when Tom Riddle was 16; therefore, he must have known how to make a Horcrux at that time.
(2) If Tom Riddle knew how to make Horcruxes at age 16, it is possible that he could have made another one before he left. Since the diary was never intended as a guaranteed permanent Horcrux, I think it's possible Riddle left one in Hogwarts as his own permanent mark on the school.
(3) Given what we know about the likely nature of the other Horcruxes, I don't think Riddle could have left more than one Horcrux stored in Hogwarts, since he obtained the other objects at a later time; and, as you say, Hogwarts was heavily guarded, and VM couldn't sneak a horcrux in, even if he wanted to, which seems unlikely.
(4) If Mundungus has stolen the locket from Grimaud place, it would be very possible for it to be sold to someone who carries it into Hogwarts, thinking it to be just a piece of jewelry.

[scd]

Would any of the other Horcrux force Harry and Ginny together, or for Harry to save Ginny again? I really want to see them togther, and it makes Harry very happy to be with Ginny as well.

[Tzigone]

I'm not sure waht to expect in regards to Harry going back to Hogwarts. I think the finale showdown will be at Hogwarts. I think there is a Horcrux at Hogwarts and that it may be the last one found. Think of how Dumbledore said how attached Voldemort was to the school (chapter 20, page 431 Scholastic edition). I think it might also be in **'s office. On page 446 (last page of chapter 20) Harry thinks that he saw Voldemort's hand twitch and we never get a real answer on why Voldemort came back then. I think the phantom twitch might be indicative of a well-done messing with meory and the twitch indicates something more happened, but it's not the poor job Slughorn did of modifying his pensive scene.

I'm not sure what this really means for H&G. I do think we are quite likely to get psuedo-repeat of the Tonks/Lupin thing, perhaps with Harry doing poorly because of his emotional state. And I think Ginny will either be present at the final battle or will be the last to leave Harry.

[PotionA]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

Alas, don't confuse bashing and shipping with the opinion that Harry and Ginny will not end up together in the future. True, we got to talking about why it mattered (some felt they were perfect for one another and others disagreed), but the point of the thread "where to from here" to me, can be answered in two words: NO WHERE.

I think JKR will realize she has not given Ginny a character befitting Harry and so, in order not to go back on her original ideology 'Ginny is perfect for Harry', she will just get rid of Ginny. I see some type of sacrificial end for the girl while Harry is still in love with her. That will rid us of Ginny and at the same time allow Harry extra motivation to vanquish voldemort. Remember, he doesn't really need motivation. Dumbledore asked him if there were no phrophecy would he still want to go after Voldemort and he said yes. So if the sacrificial end for Hermione doesn't happen, then I think JKR will just use the idea that Ginny is young and still a bit flighty and thus no longer will be in love with Harry. Harry will be upset, but the death of Voldemort and the safety (temporary) of the Wiz world will make him very happy. I see a last scene in which Harry has no one, but happily looks around at Ron and Hermione and thinks, 'wow, finally we can really just hang out and be friends'. Unless the book spans many years, he'll still be young and there will be time for many romances in his future. So I still say, from here, Harry and Ginny go to about 1.5 base and then call it quits - making book 7 a little more enjoyable.

First of all, JKR won't be "realizing" anything because she had everything planned out 15 years ago when she came up with the story. And Harry has enough motivation to vanquish Voldemort without having the love of his life sacrificing herself for him because of the deaths of his protectors, who have given him the required amount of drive and then some more to fulfill his destiny. Remember, there's a reason why these deaths had occurred and one of the reasons is that at the end of the day, Harry will stand alone when he cnfronts Voldemort. Third, if you think that Ginny will get over Harry, you're sorely mistaken because she has been in love with him since she was 11 and had waited around for him ever since then. There is no reason why she would just get over him especially after knowing what it's like to be with him. Saying that she won't love Harry anymore makes no sense whatsoever. And the series isn't a romance novel where we'll get the intricate details of Harry's love life after he vanquished Voldemort. It will end on a light happy note where it will show that Harry is happy with his best friends and a family of his own, things which he had been craving for ever since he was a child, and the only family he knows are the Weasleys and Ginny can give him a permanent place in it.

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Again, this is part of the problem with trying to discuss the story in pieces. Where Harry + Ginny go from here depends so much on where the plot takes Harry. Given the character that JKR has developed for Ginny, I'll be stunned if she does not get heavily involved. It seems to be in her nature to want to help (look at what she does for Harry and friends in OotP and HBP, and what she does to her enemies!), and JKR will want Harry's mate to be worthy of him.

That is very true. The Horcrux mission is an ideal opportunity to show us even more as to why Ginny is so perfect for Harry. She might not be directly involved in the quest because it I have a strong feeling that it will focus on the Trio, but she'll find some way to help them, possibly by communicating with them through Sirius' mirror.

Oh, and for the record (and just to brag), I was a proponent of the Accidental Horcrux hypothesis before we even knew what a Horcrux was! I wasted weeks on another newsgroup arguing whether Voldemort had accidentally left his sould in Harry or deliberately hidden it somewhere else.

Then HBP came along and turned our "or" into an either! We both doffed our caps to JKR and decided that, in fact, we both had been right AND wrong!

We all know how smart you are The Accidental Horcrux theory has a fair bit of logic and canon behind it, not to mention that it emphasizes a lot on Harry's ability to love and his willingness to sacrifice himself for those he loves (which will be the thing that will ultimately destroy the soulpiece but this is for another thread).

Indeed, my wife noted something immediately after we read HBP: Ginny never truly accepted Harry's breakup. Her translation (yup, "Mad things girls do so that boys can understand them") was: "I never really gave up on you before, and I'm sure as Hades not giving up on you now, you heroic idiot....."

Lol...your wife's translation is absolutely right

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by ProfJS

That's certainly true, but while there are certainly elements of tragedy present, I don't think the Harry Potter series is being written as a tragedy. JRK is on record discussing the series in the context of the mythic hero. In either case, of course, you can't absolutely prove or disprove any possibilities, but personally I don't think that the series is going to end as a huge tragedy.

Well, there is a "love conquers all" theme. Perhaps Ginny will pull Harry back from the brink.

Alternatively, JKR might go for the watered down "self-maiming" instead of self-sacrifice motif.

Originally Posted by ProfJS

Your use of logic is very good.

It bloody well better be! (I teach basic logic every 2-3 years....)

Originally Posted by ProfJS

(1) The diary was created when Tom Riddle was 16; therefore, he must have known how to make a Horcrux at that time.

Ah, but this does not follow! Riddle knew how to make a magical diary at 16. Magical diaries are not that uncommon: nobody was too surprised that Ginny found one. Only Dumbledore realized that this was more than normal magical diary, and more than just stored memories.

We have to keep the two aspects of the object separate: the magical Diary and the Horcrux. Voldemort could have turned the Diary into a Horcrux at any time after: 1) the Diary was made AND 2) he knew how to make Horcruxes. (These could have coincided, by the way). We know that Voldemort made the Diary during (or just after) his 5th year. He murdered his family and took the Percival Ring between his 5th and 6th years. He learned from Slughorn that Horcruxes were real and the general basis for how to make them in his 6th year.

Therefore, the earliest that Voldemort could have turned the book (or anything else) into a Horcrux was a year after he had turned the book into a Diary. It necessarily follows that the book was a Diary first, then a Horcrux later. Remember also that in Voldemort's mind (in Dumbledore's estimation), the fact that it was Voldemort's diary set it up with Founder's Relics. This works only if the object existed already.

Originally Posted by ProfJS

(2) If Tom Riddle knew how to make Horcruxes at age 16, it is possible that he could have made another one before he left. Since the diary was never intended as a guaranteed permanent Horcrux, I think it's possible Riddle left one in Hogwarts as his own permanent mark on the school.

Ah, but we know that Voldemort did not know how to make a Horcrux at 16. At age 17, he was still asking Slughorn. Voldemort knew how to make magical diaries, but not Horcruxes.

The earliest that Voldemort could have learned seemingly would be the summer between the 6th and 7th years. As he was 17 and almost certainly passed his apparition test immediately, Voldemort could apparate anywhere in the world in search of this knowledge. As Dumbledore states, he could not possibly get it as Hogwarts. However, we do know that there was at least one powerful Dark Wizard around at this time.....

Originally Posted by ProfJS

(3) Given what we know about the likely nature of the other Horcruxes, I don't think Riddle could have left more than one Horcrux stored in Hogwarts, since he obtained the other objects at a later time; and, as you say, Hogwarts was heavily guarded, and VM couldn't sneak a horcrux in, even if he wanted to, which seems unlikely.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by ProfJS

(4) If Mundungus has stolen the locket from Grimaud place, it would be very possible for it to be sold to someone who carries it into Hogwarts, thinking it to be just a piece of jewelry.

True, but this would be a highly contrived scenario. Logic is not important here: now we have an arbitrary plot, and that is just bad literature.

Also, it is most probable that the locket still is in Kreacher's stash. Mundungus was selling things that were out in the open (silverware and goblets, the stuff that he was eying in OotP). He was still taking the easy pickings. Moreover, he was busted at that point, and probably was hard pressed to steal anymore. (Dung was sent to Azkaban not too much later.)

So, with the time alotted, it seems improbable that Dung could have gotten to Kreacher's stash. Also, given the way JKR writes, she would have given some tip-off: e.g., having Harry see the picture frames or some other objects that Kreacher had saved, or even the locket itself.


What does this mean? Well, it almost certainly means that Ginny will not be helping Harry by looking up "Rowena Ravenclaw's Fashion Accessories" at Hogwarts! The when/where of Voldemort learning to make Horcruxes might now become important: where he learned immortality almost certainly would rank up there with the place that he confirmed his heritage and the place where he first tortured people. (I'm guessing the Orphanage, where he first learned that he was a wizard, or the Riddle house, where he committed his first murders, for the 4th hidden Horcrux.) If (as so many speculate), Voldemort did learn this in Europe (perhaps from Grindelwald himself), then If Ginny is to follow Harry, then it will have to be after she herself can apparate (adding to the "choice" theme: she'll be breaking wizarding law by apparating under age!). This probably will apply even if the Horcrux is somewhere in England: Harry et al. won't be walking or flying brooms, after all.

From the perspective of plot, this would make sense: the first part of the school year would be spent by just the Trio tracking down the locket and then figuring out where else Voldemort hid a Horcrux from RAB's possessions. Ginny probably will be very much on Harry's mind (if nothing else, the hormone level from Ron & Hermione should guarantee that.....), but Ginny won't come into play until the middle third of the book.


Again (and to the mods!), the Horcrux stuff might look off-topic, but how Ginny gets involved in the plot and story of VII is going to depend heavily on where Harry's Horcrux hunting takes him. Moreover, it almost has to be part of the story: the reader should clearly see that an easy choice for Ginny (made all the easier by the fact that it would involved following rules and thus superficially "right") is to stay put, but that the correct thing for her to do is to set off after Harry.

Then she can bat-bogey Nagini into a belt.....

[FireKracKer78]

Geez, you guys make me feel so smallminded...

Um, i'm going to add my two cents, since everything possible has been said, but I don't think Ginny will help with the Horcruxes, but she will play a role in book seven. So basically, I paraphrased for some of you guys.

Wow. That was pointless.


Originally posted by Ania21:
There was a genious editorial on that topic on MuggleNet, but I can't find it now. There was something about ** teaching Harry that deth is an adventure, about centaurs knowing the future and wishing Harry it won't happen, and Firenze saving Harry in the forest was changing the course of the future. Mars was bright just above Harry, and people Harry loves are dying. All he respects sacrificed themselfes and he's alone now. He keeps risking his life for others and he'll eventually do it again and die. The editorial always makes me cry, it ends with Harry being too wounded or exhausted to recover and Dumbledore tells him it's over, everything's fine now, Harry can let go, and join their loved ones. Though after **'s death it's impossible this way, Harry dying is still very possible scenario.

And I'm sure there are threads about Harry's death in book 7.


I agree. I think there is a very strong chance of Harry dying in book seven.



Originally posted by scd:
Would any of the other Horcrux force Harry and Ginny together, or for Harry to save Ginny again? I really want to see them togther, and it makes Harry very happy to be with Ginny as well.

And THAT my friend, is the one reason that I can tolerate Ginny.

[ProfJS]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

.....
From the perspective of plot, this would make sense: the first part of the school year would be spent by just the Trio tracking down the locket and then figuring out where else Voldemort hid a Horcrux from RAB's possessions. Ginny probably will be very much on Harry's mind (if nothing else, the hormone level from Ron & Hermione should guarantee that.....), but Ginny won't come into play until the middle third of the book.

I need to think a bit about some of your other comments. But I have an immediate problem with the common idea that Harry will be spending all of his time away from Hogwarts. JKR has had the structure of the series worked out for 10 years; she has said on a number of occasions that Harry will be at Hogwarts 7 years:
--------------------------------------
"For the next five years Rowling worked on Book One and plotted out the whole series, which will consist of seven novels, one for each year Harry spends at Hogwarts.] Those five years really went into creating a whole world. I know far more than the reader will ever need to know about ridiculous details." Time Magazine article (September 1999)
--------------------------------------
JKR: Exactly, there will be 7 books.
Oh, there is 7. All right!!
JKR: Yeah, one for each of his years at Hogwarts, yeah
J.K. Rowling interview transcript, (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999
--------------------------------------
Is it true you're doing 7 books, one for each year that Harry will be at Hogwarts?
A. Yes, it is true. ---Online chat transcript, Scholastic.com, 3 February 2000
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A: I always conceived it as a seven-book series because I decided that it would take seven years from the ages of 11-17, inclusive, to train as a wizard, and each of the books would deal with a year of Harry's life at Hogwarts. Scholastic Interview, sometime after 4th book (July 2000)
-------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Wimsey

.....
Again (and to the mods!), the Horcrux stuff might look off-topic, but how Ginny gets involved in the plot and story of VII is going to depend heavily on where Harry's Horcrux hunting takes him. Moreover, it almost has to be part of the story: the reader should clearly see that an easy choice for Ginny (made all the easier by the fact that it would involved following rules and thus superficially "right") is to stay put, but that the correct thing for her to do is to set off after Harry.

I agree, making the right choice instead of the easy choice is a big theme of the series. I also agree, it's likely that Ginny will have to make a decision, perhaps more than one decision of that type. I'm not sure when and where.

Originally Posted by Wimsey

.....
Then she can bat-bogey Nagini into a belt.....

My daughters and I love the bat-bogey hex.

[inufan625]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Ah, but this does not follow! Riddle knew how to make a magical diary at 16. Magical diaries are not that uncommon: nobody was too surprised that Ginny found one. Only Dumbledore realized that this was more than normal magical diary, and more than just stored memories.

We have to keep the two aspects of the object separate: the magical Diary and the Horcrux. Voldemort could have turned the Diary into a Horcrux at any time after: 1) the Diary was made AND 2) he knew how to make Horcruxes. (These could have coincided, by the way). We know that Voldemort made the Diary during (or just after) his 5th year. He murdered his family and took the Percival Ring between his 5th and 6th years. He learned from Slughorn that Horcruxes were real and the general basis for how to make them in his 6th year.

Therefore, the earliest that Voldemort could have turned the book (or anything else) into a Horcrux was a year after he had turned the book into a Diary. It necessarily follows that the book was a Diary first, then a Horcrux later. Remember also that in Voldemort's mind (in Dumbledore's estimation), the fact that it was Voldemort's diary set it up with Founder's Relics. This works only if the object existed already.




Ah, but we know that Voldemort did not know how to make a Horcrux at 16. At age 17, he was still asking Slughorn. Voldemort knew how to make magical diaries, but not Horcruxes.

The earliest that Voldemort could have learned seemingly would be the summer between the 6th and 7th years. As he was 17 and almost certainly passed his apparition test immediately, Voldemort could apparate anywhere in the world in search of this knowledge. As Dumbledore states, he could not possibly get it as Hogwarts. However, we do know that there was at least one powerful Dark Wizard around at this time.....

I disagree with one point we do not know when exactly Riddle learned to make a horocrux. I was under the impression that he was asking Slughorn, not how to make one but if in fact you would be able to make more than one from a single soul (His desire to make 7 as opposed to one) That in itself would lead me to believe that he in fact knew the process for making a horocrux already. So it is possible he made one of his diary sucessfully and was thus encouraged to seek out ways to make more.

Also to stay on more on topic. I see Ginny Weasley having a large part in *** final book. If you examine her character when comparied to the other you find that she had skills I believe will be useful in defeating Voldemort.

Harry- (the essential character) I guess I would call him the 'will' He has the unrelenting desire to defeat Riddle, and his 'saving people thing' is the driving force behind what has to be done.

Hermione- Book smarts. She is the knowledge base for the trio. She is a skilled researcher with a clever mind and I have no doubt that when presented with the right resourses, that she could find a way to destroy a horocrux or any counter course they might need along the way.

Ron- strategy. He has proven his skills in this area (PS/SS chess match & Quidditch strategy) When he is interested in something he has the ability to analize the situation from all angles and visual possible outcomes.

Finally we come to Ginny: She has on more than one occasion proven herself a formidable witch. She also shows the same out side of the box thinking we see most vididly in the antics of Fred and George (OOTP contacting Sirius). She isn't afraid to bend or break the rules, or to find ways around them. She also doesn't fear Harry's temper and has no qualms standing up to him as Hermione and Ron sometimes do. Another aspect of her character is that she like Harry has a unique knowledge and understanding of the mind of Tom Riddle.

Ginny is also not the kind of person to be content to sit by as her brother, (her whole family really), one of her best friends, and the guy she has been crushing on (I won't say loves, even if I think it is appropriate, since it will likely cause some disagreement.) go off and risk their lives.


I don't think any of these things can be dismissed and all that in mind I see a place for Ginny in Harry's life and in the battle. You don't just forget your first love and even if it is only puppy love, it doesn't just vanish. If they live I see Harry ang Ginny together.

Do I think they will...Yes, but that could just be my hopes showing since we have no cannon to decided for certain one way or another.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

The canon contradicts this. We know that Voldemort wants Horcruxes in places that are important to him, and Hogwarts is important to him. We also know that he later tried to sneak a Horcrux into Hogwarts.

But his purpose for sneaking the diary into Hogwarts was not to hide it there. Hogwarts is the last place he would willingly hide a Horcrux, IMO. The purpose of the diary was to control another student in re-opening the chamber. Canon indicates that Voldemort expected the diary to either be destroyed or returned to him with Slytherins work was completed.

We know this to be false. Here is the timeline of Voldemort's life, which is taken from the canon. Voldemort opened the Chamber in his fifth year, a year before the encounter with Slughorn. (The years are given in the books, by the way.) He acquired the ring that following summer.

That timeline does not take into account the information we learned in HBP - it says so right at the top. I don't have my books with me to corroborate but I believe Riddle tells Harry in the chamber that it took him five years to figure out the location of the chamber and how to open it. He does not say when he started looking. Riddle is also described as being 16 when he comes out of the diary. Whether or not the chamber was opened in the fifth or sixth year is debatable without knowing Voldemort's birthday - if that has been revealed I missed it. Does anyone know?

Also, remember that Slughorn did not teach Voldemort how to make Horcruxes; Slughorn only confirmed that Horcruxes were real. We know that Voldemort could not learn this at Hogwarts, and we know that he had not learned it from the Chamber, as he was still asking about Horcruxes after he opened the Chamber. This means that he had to get the knowledge elsewhere. After he turned 17 (mid-6th year), he was free to apparate. This makes the summer between his 6th and 7th years as the earliest time that he could have freely traveled to learn the Horcrux secret.

I know Slughorn did not teach him how to make Horcruxes - he just gave him a starting point. We do not know exactly how he learned. I know he could not have learned from any book at Hogwarts. However, we do not know if he had access to other books while he was at Hogwarts. It is very possible that he could have gotten books on the Dark Arts from the Gaunt house. Yes, that is pure speculation but it is possible.

The canon refutes this (HBP Amer. edition pg. 502):

Dumbledore: "Lord Voldemort has seemed to grow less human with the passing years, and the transformation he has undergone seemed to me to be only explicable if his soul was mutilated by the realms of what we might call 'usual evil'..."

Voldemort has always been a sadistic sociopath with no need for friends or love, and an ego the size of a small planet. However, he physically has transformed extensively. Moreover, the amount of physical deformation correlates to the minimum number of Horcruxes that we know Voldemort had (red eyes at at least one; melted visage, permanently blood shot eye at three; snake-like visage with red-eyes at five).

Now, you might say that Dumbledore offers a contradictory explanation in CoS: but that was before Dumbledore had worked out that Voldemort had multiple horcruxes.

There also is additional corroborative evidence. None of the Death Eaters have undergone any of the transformations that Voldemort has, yet they were steeped deely in the dark arts, and they knew about things that Voldemort was doing (supposedly) to achieve immortality. (We now know that these were smoke screens for his Horcruxes.) Indeed, this might be part of how Regulus learned the secret, if he somehow stumbled upon the fact that Horcruxes alter the person.

Actually, I'm taking both comments into account. My impression is that it was both things that caused the transformation. The Horcruxes just made the transformation more extreme but, even so, not until after he had made five.

None of the Death Eaters has delved into the Dark Arts as deeply as Voldemort and none of them have made Horcruxes - that we know of.

The "somehow" is quite important. It was not at Hogwarts. The best idea is that he learned from Grindelwald. JKR has refused to answer questions regarding Grindelwald's potential importance.

This will be relevant because where Voldemort learned probably represents a very important place to him. Harry might glean this through Dumbledore's memories.

The diary suggests otherwise. More on that below. Also, in PS/SS Harry reads that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945 - around the time that Voldemort left Hogwarts. Jo indicates that Dumbledore did not kill him but defeating him suggests to me that he is a prisoner in Azkaban and unavailable to teach someone anything.

This is where Ginny and magic come into play, and also something about the timing of events. Grindelwald was in Europe, although JKR won't tell us whether he was involved with the Nazis. So, here we leave the firm ground of canon facts and enter some speculation. Given that Voldemort leaves Horcruxes at places important to him, and given that where he learned to make Horcruxes would be an important place, this unknown area would be a likely candidate for a Horcrux.

Where exactly is this? Well, one person who might "remember" is Dumbledore, who defeated Grindelwald in the first place. Did Grindelwald have a Horcrux? We don't know, but it actually is not that important. Dumbledore's memories could be what leads Harry to this place. (Somewhere in Albania, perhaps?) Harry will procure the memories at or around Hogwarts (Aberforth actually is at Hogsmeade).

I have serious doubts that any Horcruxes are hidden outside of England. The places important to Voldemort have all been shown to be in England thus far. The cave was located near the orphanage where he grew up - a location where something had happened when he was a child during an outing there. The orphanage itself is a possibility. The Riddle house is a possibility. Hogwarts is a strong possibility but I think the Horcrux there was hidden there out of necessity and Voldemort desperately wants to get it out of there.

How does this relate to Harry & Ginny? Well, this will be the time for Ginny to make her choice. Of course, to merit Harry AND to be consistent with the story, Ginny has to make the right and hard choice to follow Harry.

I agree with this but I think this will pertain to the final battle. Harry will want to keep Ginny out of it but she will play a part in it anyway.

This puts some time constraints on things: namely, Ginny had better know how to apparate by now. So, this would push things off till after Christmas.

Thus, I would look for Harry to spend August - January or so finding the locket, and then finding Horcrux #4. The hunt for Horcrux #5 will lead him back to where Ginny can then choose to follow him.

This is the main reason why I feel Ginny will not participate actively in the search for the Horcruxes. I believe they will locate the locket and the cup prior to school starting and return to school to find the third, unknown Horcrux. I think Jo is going to continue the pattern of one year per book although book 7 will contain an epilogue that occurs sometime in the future. But the main plot of the book will be wrapped up by the end of the school year.

This is correct, but you have the sequence backwards. Voldemort first made it a Diary. Later, he turned it into a Horcrux. Harry asks why, because it was not special. Dumbledore corrects him: to Voldemort, his old Diary was "of stupendous importance" because it proved he was Slytherin's Heir. Dumbledore clearly thought that the book was first a magical diary, then later a Horcrux.

The canon gives no indication that either the Ring or the Diary was a Horcrux before Voldemort left Hogwarts. Because the canon attributes Voldemort's transformation to Horcruxes, it makes the idea that Voldemort had two Horcruxes when he killed Smith unlikely (given how much damage only 5 caused).

That is not supported by canon. I agree that it is debatable whether the diary or the ring was made first but the diary was definitely made into a Horcrux at the same time the memory was recorded in it. It had to be because of it's intended use. In order for it to work the way Riddle wanted it to, it had to contain a piece of his soul. Dumbledore makes that very clear when he tells Harry that it was how the diary worked that made him suspect it was a Horcrux.

Canon supports saying that both the diary and the ring were made into Horcruxes before Riddle left Hogwarts. The order is debatable but they were both definitely made into Horcruxes while Riddle was a student.

The canon contradicts this. (You do seem to think that Dumbledore's ideas are always erroneous!) First, Dumbledore thinks that Voldemort got the idea for using founder's artifacts in particular after finding two with Smith. That was after Voldemort left Hogwarts. Second, Dumbledore cannot determine whether Voldemort acquired anything of Ravenclaw's. However, your scenario requires that the theft of the Ravenclaw relic be discovered: how could Dumbledore not learn about this? How could he avoid putting 2+2 together? Conversely, if Dumbledore did not learn, then why did Voldemort fear getting caught? This is an inherent contradiction.

Dumbledore himself says that he is speculating and could be wrong because the details of Voldemort's life were difficult for him to find and what he did find took a lot of work and persuasion. Dumbledore thinks that Voldemort decided to use artifacts from the founders after acquiring the locket and the cup - "thinks" being the key word there. It is also possible that Voldemort thought of this before. It explains why he took a lowly clerks position at Burgin and Borkes - a position that gave him access to many different artifacts and led to the discovery of the locket and the cup. He knew about the locket before from his visit to Morfin. I think Dumbledore's speculation is right for the most part but that does not mean that some of it can't be wrong.

My speculation regarding the tiara is just speculation. I do think the tiara is highly probable as being the unknown Horcrux. I think it is very possible that Riddle made it into a Horcrux during his seventh year and was forced to hide it in the Room of Requirement out of necessity and was unable to retrieve it before leaving school. That is very possible and canon does not contradict that possibility. Dumbledore said that, to his knowledge, Voldemort never acquired a Ravenclaw artifact. In my speculation, the theft was discovered but the thief was not caught. In my speculation, Dumbledore does not know what happened to the tiara - it was never found and Voldemort was never caught with it. But, that is just speculation - one possibility out of many.

It is also very possible that the Horcrux is hidden in the Chamber of Secrets. There was a thread speculating on there being more to the chamber because it referred to secrets, indicating more than one secret being contained there.

Whatever the Horcrux turns out to be, I feel very strongly that it will be something that we have seen before - something that was mentioned in passing in one of the books, most likely HBP. The reason I think the Room of Requirement is most likely is because of the time Jo spent in describing that version of the room and the objects hidden there - of those objects, the tiara seemed to be the most likely thing that could have belonged to Ravenclaw. I think Dumbledore is correct in his speculation that the sword is the only artifact that belonged to Gryffindor.

This follows her pattern of mentioning something in passing that seems unimportant but turns out to be important in another book. The Whomping Willow - mentioned in passing in COS - turned out to be important in POA. The Vanishing cabinet mentioned in passing in COS and OOTP - turned out to be important in HBP. The locket mentioned in passing in OOTP will likely turn out to be the locket Horcrux. These patterns help us in determining what will happen next.

Also, it is pure fan-fiction. Nothing in the canon suggests that the tiara is linked to Ravenclaw, or that any of these people existed.

Nothing in canon suggested the locket belonged to Slytherin either. It is only because of the information given in HBP that this became a possibility. In OOTP, it was just a heavy locket that none of them could open.

I think that almost none of these events even happened. You cannot cite Dumbledore's comments to support you: your arguments require that Dumbledore be wrong most of the time. JKR's comments do not support you: she has said that VII is about tracking down the Horcruxes and Voldemort. Riddles' comments in CoS are too general: they are consistent with numerous scenarios.

I'm in the middle of moving and I'm staying at my parents this week so I don't have access to my books to provide quotes, which is very frustrating. But I based all of that on the books - what Dumbledore told Harry, the memories that he showed him in the pensieve, and the events that occurred in COS. I don't think Dumbledore is wrong about everything but I also don't believe that he was right about everything either. Even Dumbledore says that he could be completely wrong because he is just guessing about a lot of it.

Nothing Jo said has indicated to me that book 7 will only be about tracking down the Horcruxes and Voldemort. In fact, her interviews strongly indicate that Hogwarts will continue to be the central location in book 7.

Here is the link to the thread I mentioned before.

JKR Interviews - A post-HBP evaluation

vivekgk posted numerous quotes from Jo's interviews here. Specifically, Jo said that there would be one book for each year at Hogwarts and that we would see Harry into his final year at Hogwarts. She has also commented on there being a new DADA professor in book 7, more from the Sorting hat, and that Harry thinks he knows what he has to do - which means he is wrong. All of this tells me that Hogwarts will be the central location of book 7, just as it always has been.

But, Meesha, the huge problem is that none of this speculation has anything to do with the story. It is all highly contrived plot designed to keep Harry at Hogwarts. Harry Potter is [b]not about Hogwarts: it is about choices. Harry, Ron and Hermione made their big choice at the end of HBP: they are taking the hard road to destroy the Horcruxes and Voldemort.

If JKR had them flip-flop on this, then all of the thematic impact of the last book would be dissolved at once. It would turn Harry Potter into just a meaningless series of events: a soap-opera plot with no story at all. Indeed, if they do not stick to it, then the story is seriously compromised, if not ruined. JKR stated that Dumbledore's closing lines in GoF summarized the rest of the story: the choice between what is right and what is easy. Returning to Hogwarts would be the easy cop-out. Moreover, what possible meaning would the final chapter have anymore?

I don't agree. Based on Jo's comments, Hogwarts will remain the central location. Jo has directly told us that Harry is wrong in his thinking at the end of HBP. He thinks that he has to drop out of school. He will discover that he does not. That does not compromise the story at all. It fits in with the pattern of the previous books.

I don't see Jo straying from her established pattern to a great degree. HBP strayed slightly by not ending on the Hogwarts Express but that was a minor deviance the usual pattern. I think book 7 will deviate slightly in that it will begin on the Hogwarts Express with them leaving Hogwarts - picking up right where HBP left off. Other than that, I see no reason for Jo to stray from the established pattern of the books.

The final chapter is an epilogue reportedly occuring in the future - possibly years into the future. It's purpose is to tell us who survived and what happened to them. That chapter is not affected by whether or not Hogwarts remains the central location in book 7.

Ginny now needs to make a comparable choice. It has to be a choice fraught with risks (e.g., danger to self, but also violating rules), and it has to be motivated by the right reasons (i.e., genuine feelings for Harry and sense of duty, not a childish desire for adventure).

Ginny's choice could be to follow them into the final battle. Leaving school and placing herself in danger in an attempt to help them. Again, that is not affected at all by whether or not Hogwarts remains the central location.

A plot with all of the Horcruxes conveniently waiting for Harry at Hogwarts, and with no difficult choices that other people will question will not serve this story at all.

Why would you think that all the Horcruxes are at Hogwarts? That certainly is not what I said. I said that there is one hidden there that Voldemort had to leave there out of necessity. He does not want it there - he desperately wants to get it out of there and hide it somewhere else.

It most certainly won't be easy and it most certainly won't fall into Harry's lap when he walks through the door. They still have to determine what the object is and find where it is hidden.

Another point, Hogwarts is important in their search for the unknown Horcrux. At Hogwarts they have access to research materials - books about the founders - old issues of the Daily Prophet to look into suspicious events or deaths - and so on. They will have access to Dumbledore's portrait. They could even have access to Dumbledore's private library and notes. It won't be easy but Hogwarts is the most logical place for them to be and the only way they will be allowed to be there is if they return as students.

They won't need Hogwarts to find the locket - something will occur that makes the connection to Regulus and the locket at Grimmauld Place. The cup is more difficult but I do believe that Dumbledore will have left information to Harry that will help him locate it. The unkown Horcrux is what they will need Hogwarts for. The most logical location for it to be hidden is at Hogwarts and having access to the library will help them ascertain what it is. I still think that it is possible that Ginny knows something that will lead them to where it is hidden.

That would completely undermine the story. Where would Ginny's choices be? Remember, the story focuses on people's choices: JKR cannot change the over-arching theme in the final book! (She can mess with the plot, but the point of a story is to tell a story, not a sequence of events.)

While I do feel that Ginny is going to play an important role in the final book - at least in the final battle - I do not feel that her choices are important to the story - neither are Ron and Hermione's. It is Harry's choices that are important. He is the hero - the one they are following. It has been his choices that have guided them all along.

Ginny will probably have a choice to make but that choice will not be affected by the location. Whether they are at Hogwarts or somewhere else - that does not decrease the significance of her choices or anyone elses.

Finally, from the plot-perspective, having all the Horcruxes at Hogwarts would be what is called an idiot-plot: i.e., one where things are solved only by having a generally intelligent person do something stupid.

By that definition, all of the books have had "idiot-plots". In each book Harry does something stupid and gets lucky. In PS/SS, he assumed that Snape was the bad guy and was after the stone. He was wrong and through a combination of skill, help from his friends, and luck was successful in stopping Voldemort from getting the stone anyway. In COS, he did quite a few stupid things and made a few incorrect assumptions. Again, it was the combination of skill, help from his friends, and luck that helped him succeed. In POA, they believed that Sirius was in league with Voldemort. Again, Harry did something stupid and got lucky because Sirius wasn't really the bad guy at all. In GOF, Harry makes many mistakes and assumptions and gets lucky because his and Voldemort's wands do not work against each other. In OOTP, Harry made a huge mistake and nearly got all of them killed. He got lucky again because the Order showed up in time to save them.

It is the same pattern in each book. Harry makes assumptions - turns out to be wrong - then has a stroke of luck that allows him to succeed.

Again, the resolution of Harry & Ginny needs to revolve around choices that both of them make. They need to be difficult choices, fraught with potentially nasty ramifications. JKR already has told us that this is the story. A hostage Ginny serves no purpose: this reduces her charcter to just the trophy princess, and makes Ginny no better than what her detractors pretend to see.

Well, I never said that Ginny would be a hostage. I do think that it's possible that Ginny could get captured but if that were to occur, I think she would manage to escape on her own. We have also discussed here the possibility of Ginny rescuing Harry this time. She gets captured but escapes - Harry goes after her to try and rescue her and ends up getting captured and she rescues him instead. That was one scenario we came up with. Pure speculation but it would be a nice twist.

I fail to see how them returning to Hogwarts would affect any of their choices regarding their relationship, the Horcruxes, or the battle.

To repeat again, people have to consider the story when hypothesizing about plots. When suggesting that something might happen or that someone might do something, stop and ask: how does this fit into the story? What is the "right" choice here? What is the "easy" choice? What would this character do given the development to date?

None of which is affected by them returning to school. The choices remain the same. Find the Horcruxes - two of which will most likely be located prior to school starting with the third at Hogwarts. Finding the Horcrux at Hogwarts will be a difficult and daunting task - made more difficult by Harry excluding Ginny because she very likely knows something. Locate Nagini and Voldemort - another difficult task which cannot be accomplished until the first three Horcruxes are found and destroyed. Again, Ginny could know something of value here. Her communication with Riddle could have resulted in her knowing of places that are important to him.

Also, I think Harry needs to finish his education in order to be able to defeat Voldemort. We know that there will be a new DADA teacher and Harry could learn something important there - something that will help him in the final battle.

Jo has pretty much told us that Harry will return for his final year - one book for each year at Hogwarts - we will see Harry into his final year - he thinks he knows what he has to do. There will be a new DADA teacher - which would be unnecessary if Harry is not returning to school - and we will learn more from the Sorting hat - which would not be possible if Harry is not there to hear the song.

Originally Posted by inufan625

I disagree with one point we do not know when exactly Riddle learned to make a horocrux. I was under the impression that he was asking Slughorn, not how to make one but if in fact you would be able to make more than one from a single soul (His desire to make 7 as opposed to one) That in itself would lead me to believe that he in fact knew the process for making a horocrux already. So it is possible he made one of his diary sucessfully and was thus encouraged to seek out ways to make more.

That is an excellent point. It is very possible that Riddle already knew how to make a Horcrux and was only trying to ascertain if it was possible for a person to make more than one - if one soul could be divided into seven pieces.

Actually, that makes perfect sense. After all, the fact that he knew anything about Horcruxes at that point would suggest that he already knew how to make one.

For the rest of your post, I completly agree, particularly about Ginny having an understanding of Riddle's mind. She communicated with him through the diary for a year. It is very possible that she has information that will be important - information that she does not realize is important.

[Tarragon]

Wow, is it just me, or does anyone else think this thread has deviated very far from its title topic? Oh well. When in Rome....

Originally Posted by meesha1971

That timeline does not take into account the information we learned in HBP - it says so right at the top. I don't have my books with me to corroborate but I believe Riddle tells Harry in the chamber that it took him five years to figure out the location of the chamber and how to open it. He does not say when he started looking. Riddle is also described as being 16 when he comes out of the diary. Whether or not the chamber was opened in the fifth or sixth year is debatable without knowing Voldemort's birthday - if that has been revealed I missed it. Does anyone know?

Wimsey is quite correct. Though we do not know Voldemort's exact age at the time, we do know that he opened the Chamber during his fith year at Hogwarts because he tells this to Harry through the diary, "In my fifth year, the Chamber was opened and the monster attacked several students, finally killing one." So the issue of what year Tom was in when he opened the Chamber is not debatable regardless of how old Voldemort was. And I speculate that he was fifteen when he opened it and turned sixteen sometime between then and the next school year, and he could not have preserved his memories into his diary until the events had all occured, so he very well could have been sixteen and in his sixth year at this point. However, we know that at sixteen Voldemort knew what a Horcrux was, but he did not know how to encase the torn part of the soul into the desired object. As he would most likely not find this spell at Hogwarts because its purpose is so Dark, it is very possible that he did not learn it until after he left school. That does not mean Voldemort could not have preserved his memories into the diary at sixteen and then later turned it into a Horcrux post-Hogwarts. This is what I believe to have happened, as a matter of fact.

So this post is not completely off topic, I'll say that I am undecided whether or not Ginny will go with Harry to destroy the Horcruxes. I did not even consider it as a possibility, as Ginny is still underage and thus any magic she uses outside of school can be tracked by the ministry. However, maybe they will not be enforcing the restrictions on underage magic outside of the school as strictly as the have in the past considering that the Ministry has more pressing matter on its mind what with the war against the Dark Lord and all. So maybe she will come after all.

[Dragonious]

I have only just realised the astonishing resemblance between the Harry/ Ginny relationship compared to James and Lily Potter. I never really like Ginny. Imagine if they get together (or even married) in book 7 and went into hiding like James and Lily and had a kid. What if histroy was to repeat itself i.e. Voldemort was to find Harry and Ginny and kill them but not their son or even daughter.

[adam_12]

Originally Posted by Dragonious

I have only just realised the astonishing resemblance between the Harry/ Ginny relationship compared to James and Lily Potter. I never really like Ginny. Imagine if they get together (or even married) in book 7 and went into hiding like James and Lily and had a kid. What if histroy was to repeat itself i.e. Voldemort was to find Harry and Ginny and kill them but not their son or even daughter.

I don't think there is any similarity between the relationships of Harry/Ginny and James/Lily. James and Lily hated each other. Ginny and Harry have always been friends, even if they weren't really close until the sixth book. I also doubt that Harry and Ginny would have a child before either Voldemort or Harry was dead, so I don't believe that their son (or daughter, not trying to be sexist) is going to become the new chosen one.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by Tarragon

Wow, is it just me, or does anyone else think this thread has deviated very far from its title topic? Oh well. When in Rome....

Wimsey is quite correct. Though we do not know Voldemort's exact age at the time, we do know that he opened the Chamber during his fith year at Hogwarts because he tells this to Harry through the diary, "In my fifth year, the Chamber was opened and the monster attacked several students, finally killing one." So the issue of what year Tom was in when he opened the Chamber is not debatable regardless of how old Voldemort was. And I speculate that he was fifteen when he opened it and turned sixteen sometime between then and the next school year, and he could not have preserved his memories into his diary until the events had all occured, so he very well could have been sixteen and in his sixth year at this point. However, we know that at sixteen Voldemort knew what a Horcrux was, but he did not know how to encase the torn part of the soul into the desired object. As he would most likely not find this spell at Hogwarts because its purpose is so Dark, it is very possible that he did not learn it until after he left school. That does not mean Voldemort could not have preserved his memories into the diary at sixteen and then later turned it into a Horcrux post-Hogwarts. This is what I believe to have happened, as a matter of fact.

Thanks for clearing up the issue of when the chamber was opened. It is so frustrating not to have my books with me right now. I may resort to going to the library to check them out. I hate moving.

Anyway, this is not off topic because we are discussing how these events will play out in terms of what role Ginny will play in book 7.

As was posted last night, it is entirely feasible that Riddle already knew how to make a Horcrux when he asked Slughorn about them. Like I said, I don't have my books but, from memory, his main question to Slughorn was whether or not it would be possible to make more than one - seven being the number he had in mind. The fact that he knew about Horcruxes at all suggests that he already knew how to make one and only wanted to see if it were possible to make more than one Horcrux from one soul. That appears to be what he was most interested in.

As for the diary, for it's intended purpose, it had to be a Horcrux. It had to contain a piece of soul in order to work the way Riddle intended it to. When he realized that they were considering closing the school, he decided to frame Hagrid for opening the chamber to prevent that. He knew that it would be too risky for him to open the chamber again while he was a student so he came up with a way to control another student and open the chamber at a later date - when it would not be a risk to him. In order for that to work, the diary had to contain a piece of soul. Otherwise, it would have just been a magical record of Riddle's memory - not able to possess or control anyone. In order for the diary to work as Riddle intended it to, he had to know how to make it a Horcrux.

Actually, the more I think about it - the more that makes sense. That would explain how he found out about Horcruxes in the first place. He was looking for a way to control another student at a later date to re-open the chamber.

So this post is not completely off topic, I'll say that I am undecided whether or not Ginny will go with Harry to destroy the Horcruxes. I did not even consider it as a possibility, as Ginny is still underage and thus any magic she uses outside of school can be tracked by the ministry. However, maybe they will not be enforcing the restrictions on underage magic outside of the school as strictly as the have in the past considering that the Ministry has more pressing matter on its mind what with the war against the Dark Lord and all. So maybe she will come after all.

I don't think Ginny will go with Harry to destroy the Horcruxes. I think that will be the trio only. However, I do think that it is possible that Ginny could know some information that will help them but not realize this information is significant. She communicated with Riddle through the diary for a year. He talked to her and told her things to gain her trust - just as he did with Harry. It is very possible that she might know of places that were important to him. Without knowing about the Horcruxes and that Voldemort hid them in places of significance to him, Ginny would not realize that the fact that Riddle liked this place or that place could be significant. She could also know some other things that happened at Hogwarts at the time Riddle was a student there.

But I doubt she will be an active participant in the search itself. Most likely, the information she has will be revealed inadvertently - possibly she will finally tell Harry (and possibly Ron and Hermione) what she went through with the diary and in the process mention something that Riddle told her. Harry will realize the importance because he knows about the Horcruxes.

I think Ginny's main contribution will be in the final battle. I still think it would be cool for Ginny to end up having to rescue Harry.

[KATTALNUVA]

I think Ginny's main contribution will be in the final battle. I still think it would be cool for Ginny to end up having to rescue Harry.

I still believe her main part will be playing Voldemort's bait for Harry.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by IceKat55

Not be be argumentive - - but this is not Ginny's story.

ALL of the characters in HP are made or broken by the choices. The story is about choices, after all. Now, the BIG choices have to be Harry's. However, the supporting characters have to make their choices, or the story is undermined.

Originally Posted by IceKat55

She may have already made the only "choice" that Rowling wanted her to make, when she peacefully chose to let Harry break up with her and go play the hero. Not an easy choice for Ginny...but in the end, it may have been the right one. Only Book 7 will tell.

JKR already has said that we'll see powerful magic from Ginny in VII, so we know that is wrong. Also, given the "moral" themes of HP, Ginny just sitting back would not be the right thing to do. Harry (and Ron!) might prefer that she did, but if JKR wants Ginny to appear to merit Harry, then Ginny has to make a similar choice.


[quote=PotionA]That is very true. The Horcrux mission is an ideal opportunity to show us even more as to why Ginny is so perfect for Harry. She might not be directly involved in the quest because it I have a strong feeling that it will focus on the Trio, but she'll find some way to help them, possibly by communicating with them through Sirius' mirror.

Originally Posted by PotionA

We all know how smart you are

If I was so smart, then: A) I would have been arguing that Voldemort had deliberately hidden his soul (which we know is basically true), and B) I would been clever enough to realize that we were arguing over an "OR" that need not have existed!

My real point (besides how charmingly brilliant I am ) was that the idea that Harry has a piece of Voldemort's soul predates HBP. I remember people talking about it as far back as GoF.

Originally Posted by PotionA

not to mention that it emphasizes a lot on Harry's ability to love and his willingness to sacrifice himself for those he loves (which will be the thing that will ultimately destroy the soulpiece but this is for another thread).

Again, this is why Ginny cannot remain in the background for the entire book. Love is a many splendored thing and all of that: we've got the platonic love with Ron & Hermione, we've seen familial love get the ball rolling and extended to Sirius, we've seen the love of a mentor: we need some good old fashioned boy+girl love. (Well, it need not be that, but this ain't Brokeback Mountain.....)

Originally Posted by PotionA

...your wife's translation is absolutely right

Despite the fact that she married me, she really is a smart chick......

Originally Posted by inufan625

I disagree with one point we do not know when exactly Riddle learned to make a horocrux. I was under the impression that he was asking Slughorn, not how to make one but if in fact you would be able to make more than one from a single soul (His desire to make 7 as opposed to one) That in itself would lead me to believe that he in fact knew the process for making a horocrux already. So it is possible he made one of his diary sucessfully and was thus encouraged to seek out ways to make more.

If you re-read the section, you will read that Voldemort is most insistent about learning how the Horcrux is made. He asks not once, but twice, almost losing his cool and almost scaring Slughorn away from the topic. Also, Dumbledore notes that Voldemort could not obtain that information at Hogwarts. Voldemort's first real opportunities to travel far from Hogwarts and learn these things came afterwards. This probably will be important: it might lead to another Horcrux location.

Again, this is relevant, because how Harry & Ginny interact will depend on where the two of them are. Harry will not be at Hogwarts for most of the school year, although the Horcrux search might lead him there for a time. This means that, as JKR stressed in the "Delusional" Interview, the lovers must be parted for a time.

Originally Posted by inufan625

Also to stay on more on topic. I see Ginny Weasley having a large part in *** final book.

Almost certainly: however, the role that any of them play will depend on where Harry's Horcrux hunting takes him. Using the canon and logic, we can dismiss as unlikely the idea that Harry is going to be searching for them while at Hogwarts. (Yes, JKR did say one book for each year, but this is meaningless: she could not really state differently!) What becomes important is the scenario that brings Ginny back into the narrative and plot, and thus the scenario that can bring her into the story. At some point, Ginny has to make a choice like Ron & Hermione did. In Ginny's case, the choice is even "harder" because she (unlike the two adults) will be disobeying her parents and breaking school rules.

Originally Posted by inufan625

Finally we come to Ginny: She has on more than one occasion proven herself a formidable witch. She also shows the same out side of the box thinking we see most vididly in the antics of Fred and George (OOTP contacting Sirius). She isn't afraid to bend or break the rules, or to find ways around them.

This is why I think that Ginny will leave school without permission to pursue the Trio. JKR has established that Ginny will break rules when she thinks it is the right thing to do.

Also, the powerful magic might come into play here. Notably, there are many more scenarios for Ginny to contribute to theme and plot if she is at Hogwarts while the Trio are not.

Originally Posted by KATTALNUVA

I still believe her main part will be playing Voldemort's bait for Harry.

This is possible, but it strikes me as improbable. JKR has devoted too much time to developing Ginny as a "can do" character to reduce her to the trophy hostage princess. Also, this would deprive JKR of the opportunity to use Ginny for the story, and JKR tends to use as many characters for her story as possible. It would make things such as getting to see Ginny use powerful magic more difficult: if she is kidnapped, then it will be "off-camera" and the magic will not look all that impressive if she is bagged.

Finally, keep in mind that JKR is a woman. Men would be much more prone to using a female character purely as a plot element, but I do not think that JKR wants to do that. One of the underlying themes of her story is that power is not distributed by birth, class or race: reducing a female character to just a trophy would (even if inadvertantly) contradict that theme.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by KATTALNUVA

I still believe her main part will be playing Voldemort's bait for Harry.

I highly doubt it. The possibility exists that Ginny could be captured but she has reached a level where she could escape on her own - possibly even escape her captors before the reach their destination. And even the possibility of Ginny being captured has a low probability.

Back to the topic at hand. I don't think Ginny and Harry will reunite too early in the book. I think that will be Ron and Hermione. Harry and Ginny won't reunite until after the trio returns to school - sometime in the middle of the book would be my guess but it's possible that Harry will once again hold out until close to the end of the year.

[FireKracKer78]

Originally Posted by IceKat55
Not be be argumentive - - but this is not Ginny's story.

Amen to that!

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Originally Posted by PotionA
...your wife's translation is absolutely right


Despite the fact that she married me, she really is a smart chick......

Ooh, getting a bit cocky, are we?

Originally Posted by KATTALNUVA

I still believe her main part will be playing Voldemort's bait for Harry.

I don't think so. She's already done it once in CoS, there's not much of a chance that it will happen again.

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Almost certainly: however, the role that any of them play will depend on where Harry's Horcrux hunting takes him. Using the canon and logic, we can dismiss as unlikely the idea that Harry is going to be searching for them while at Hogwarts. (Yes, JKR did say one book for each year, but this is meaningless: she could not really state differently!) What becomes important is the scenario that brings Ginny back into the narrative and plot, and thus the scenario that can bring her into the story. At some point, Ginny has to make a choice like Ron & Hermione did. In Ginny's case, the choice is even "harder" because she (unlike the two adults) will be disobeying her parents and breaking school rules.

I think the Horcrux Hunt will be done during the summer, after the wedding. They are DEFINETELY going back to Hogwarts (seven books, seven years, oh yeah, they're going alright), so they'll have to do it then. And they will all be of age (except Ginny, so Mrs. Weasley might not approve of her going) so no one can object, unless Mrs. Weasley pulls out the authority button ("As long as you live under my roof, I tell you what to do! Blah blah blah..." VERY annoying) and tries to interfere. If Ginny accompanies the trio (Ron will somehow convince his mom to let him go) it will be because she snuck after them, or because she accompanied them and told them that Mrs. Wealsey said she could, when really she probably won't. That IS her only daughter, after all.

Originally Posted by adam_12

I don't think there is any similarity between the relationships of Harry/Ginny and James/Lily. James and Lily hated each other. Ginny and Harry have always been friends, even if they weren't really close until the sixth book. I also doubt that Harry and Ginny would have a child before either Voldemort or Harry was dead, so I don't believe that their son (or daughter, not trying to be sexist) is going to become the new chosen one.

I see physical resemblance, but no real emotional ties or connections to the past pair (James and Lily). Coincidence, maybe? Or maybe the Potters have a thing for redheads..