NT #44 - The Crux of it All

[Rayjo]

Discussion for the North Tower #44 - The Crux of it All.

[Chas]

First to post again!??

Wonderful editorial, Maline. As usual, you're worth waiting for.

I love your theories, especially the decoys. The scar being a horcrux is a wonderful explanation of all the strange things it does. OTOH, it could just be some kind of non-horcrux connection with Voldemort with its own purpose in the plot. And Nagini as a horcrux, while appealing, has its problems.

Oh, I can't wait for the Book 7 just to answer all these questioins. At the same time, I don't want it to be over. Altogether too much fun along the way!

[aizan19]

hey maline! glad you're back...i really liked this editorial--it's the first one i've read in a while, and it really got me thinking about the next HP book. in your article, in the 6th(i think) paragraph, you say that there are really EIGHT horcurxes, but you counted the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw horcrux as two separate horcruxes, whereas in the book, it says "someting of Gryffindor OR Ravenclaw's". just had to point that out
i too, was intrigued by how the soul-splitting actually worked after reading HBP. i don't think horcruxes form by themselves, but it is interesting to think that Voldemort may not have intended for harry to become a horcurx...it would make a nice twist. however, i still think that what Jo has told us so far about Voldemort's soul situation through Dumbledore is pretty accurate, because Dumbledore is usually always right. In HBP, Dumbledore says that there are no remaining heirlooms of Gryffindor's, save the sword (and possibly the Hat), so it would make a nice twist if Harry was the horcrux representing Gryffindor. However, that would mean that there was no horcrux representing Ravenclaw, which would be unfair. I'm still skeptical about the Harry-is-a-horcrux theory, but I am willing to keep an open mind about it. i look forward to reading more of your stuff, soon!

oh, and one more thing (if my post wasn't already long enough)... i would LOVE it if you could come on MuggleCast. I think you have a lot of great ideas, and lovely insight into the books, and i would love to hear you talk about it.

[The Obsesser]

When I saw there was a new North Tower, I was unbelievably excited. I mean, when was the last time - before Christmas? (Note: I just checked, it was actually beginning of October.) At any rate, a marathon of a hiatus, and with the general lack of editorials lately, it was an exciting moment.

To quote Voldemort: "I confess myself disappointed."

It's not that I reject the idea of Harry as a Horcrux. I'm not quite sure what I think about it, to be honest. The evidence is all there for it - I just expect more from Jo. Thus, I was highly disappointed when I read this article. It really wasn't anything special for me.

Maybe I've gotten too used to the cliffhanger excitement of Brandon of the Underground Lake (THE WHEELS ARE IN MOTION), or the revolutionary ideas of Lady Lupin. But this brought up a heavily-discussed topic (dead horses, as they are called by some) and argued it with the same points we have heard time and time again. There were no new perspectives to examine, no interesting angles to ponder, and now that I look back on it, not a single quote from the book. The latter is not necessarily negative - not all editorials have to use quotes - but it did shock me.

Maline, I'm more than glad to have you back. I was just expecting something better.

[hilere]

Hey GLAD you're back! And I really did enjoy this editorial. Even though I disagree with a lot of what you said you still said it convincingly! But I have to agree (in part) with The Obsessor, this topic is a bit of a dead horse but I don't think you could really have continued with your column WITHOUT doing an editorial on the horcruxes! It's probably the most imporatant topic in the series

[Sakura_Black]

I'm so excited to see something new! I agree that HBP leaves everyone with more questions than answers. A fitting move considering it brings with it a high anticipation for number seven.

I personally am not a big fan of the Harry=Horcrux theory but at the same time it is so appealing. I mean looking at it symbolically Harry epitomizes Griffindor just as Voldy does Slytherin. The ring, the diary, the locket, the cup, something of Ravenclaw, Voldy (Slytherin), and Harry (Griffindor) being the seven horcruxes with the snake serving as a decoy rocks.

I've questioned the snake's role as number seven for a while. This is Voldy's ultimate plan here. Killing Harry (the one who is supposed to vanquish him) to make a horcrux would fit Voldy's idea of grandness perfectly. I really don't like the snake serving as a horcrux it makes it seem as if Voldy is playing it safe (something I think he is too arrogant to do) and its a little boring. Why use an old man to turn your snake into a horcrux when you can wait a little longer and use Harry to make a the perfect seventh. After all there are still six soul pieces to keep him safe (or so he thinks *GO HARRY*) until he confronts Harry once and for all. What if he already has something (of Griffindor's maybe???) that he plans to change into a horcrux and is simply waiting to kill Harry to do it? Or what if he is working on getting Griffindor's sword to use it as his seventh? I like this idea because it fits with the idea of the horcruxes relating to the four suits of tarot. We would have to assume Ravenclaw's item is a wand though.

All of this makes us question the validity of Dumbly's information. Are we taking it for granted that Dumbledore is ALWAYS right? Or is he correct in assuming Voldy made seven horcruxes and that the snake is one of them. Jo does a good job of throwing us off the scent. As I said HBP leaves you with more annoying questions.

Anyway glad to see your back! Life has a funny way of taking up your time. Curious as to your thoughts on RAB? I hope we hear from you again soon.

[yappa1]

I think back to the times of reading OOTP and the locket section, the locker wasn't opened and while they tried to open it, I'm thinking don't do it leave it alone. That is probably the horcruxe and RAB didn't take care of it. I think only a parselmouth can open it safely. I also think that inside the locket is instructions on how to use the chamber of secrets written in parseltongue.

[le_professeur]

I happen to agree that Harry is the Gryffindor horcrux. But, I don't think it was accidental. Don't we know (I've forgotten the source) that to create a horcrux, there must be a spell that is used? Harry's would have been a very important death if the Avada Kedavra hadn't rebounded on Voldy since he(LV) was trying to destroy the child born to vanquish him. It seems to me that Voldemort would have prepared the spell and the receptacle whatever it was going to be. Unfortunately for him, the Avada Kedavra rebounded on him and stripped him of a body. Question: how did his soul fragment enter baby Harry? Was Harry the intended receptacle? Did LV's soul part enter Harry because he was right there? And, how will Harry get rid of that piece of LV's soul? Lot's to think about still.

[PandaA1983]

Nice to see you write again! But I do have to say although you make some good points, I am not convinced on the theory of Harry=Horcrux by accident. Professor Slughorn says there is an incantation or spell (not completely sure of the wording, don't have my book with me) that is performed in order to create the Horcrux. I don't think it can be done by accident. But good job anyway!

[norway]

I agree with you with mostly everything (i just have the qualm with the ravenclaw object, i just dont think that it exists, BUT if it does, my bet is the opal necklace, and maybe snape would know about the horcruxes from having handled it and the dumbledore hand fiasco)
But mainly i would like to direct your attention to the fact, that it was at the end of the 5th book that Voldemort realised he shared a soul fragmant with harry. After possessing him, and finding a shard of soul in harry, which could be affected by emotion, and voldemort being a tough guy, who doesnt like to cry, or die, he immeadiately left harry, with a different state of mind. He realised that to kill harry it would be to limit his survival. Harry was to be only for voldemort, a command given to death eaters, and spoken by snape at the end of the half blood prince. Tell me they couldnt have knocked harry out at that point and dragged him to voldemort, and let him be killed? Nope voldemort has made harry untouchable for the deatheaters. Thats jsut not normal voldemort behaviour.......harry can still be tortured for fun and not die!

This explains why voldemort has been avoiding thought sharing, to prevent harry from realising the full magnitude of the connection.
Now i know it sounds like voldemort doesnt want harry dead, he does oh yes, but he has hit a snag, and the harry the little thwarter of get evil quick schemes, will now have to be turned into a cohort, voldemort will try to turn harry evil, and with dumbledore out of the way, he will be alll the more vulnerable in voldemorts snakey eyes.
so thats my explanding on your idea of voldemort knowing!!

[Krinkelmort]

Nice editorial.

I don't completly agree with you, i do think that the snake is a horcrux, because of the 'but in essence divided' thing.

But i do think he accidently made Harry a horcrux and that's why he has eight horcruxes and not seven.

And yeah, the main reason i believe that Harry is a horcrux is because of the drama

[Rell]

Really, what I didn't agree with is the process of horcrux formation. Slughorn seems to imply that it's pretty deliberate - there's a spell for it. It just doesn't seem likely to me that it an be done accidentally. Also, the timesaving premise doesn't seem very likely to me either. I feel like the horcrux hunt will primarily be figuring out where/what the horcrux is, but not the actuall hunt (which will be accomplished through apparition). But a scar horcrux would take just as long to figure out.

[sherbet_meg]

Interesting theory. I don't really agree with the Harry=horcrux theory and here is the main reason why: I think creating a horcrux needs to be a very intentional process. Something filled with so much dark magic can't happen accidentally, otherwise every time a witch or wizard committed murder, a horcrux would be created. Therefore, I find it hard to believe that Harry became an accidental horcrux when Voldy's Avada Kadavra rebounded (Although I realise this isn't quite the theory you presented) The mian hole in the theory as you presented it is that, according to Slughorn, a horcrux can only be created when you commit a murder. If we follow your argument that a soul splits everytime a murder is committed, then yes it is possible that Voldy's soul split once when he killed James (and then returned to him) and again when he killed Lily (and returned to him), but it cannot have split for a third time that night, because Voldy only attempted to kill Harry. He did not "commit" a murder, therefore no soul fragment split off that time. Unless he created a Horcrux from Harry with Lily or James' murder, I find it very hard to believe that Harry could be a Horcrux.

Good theory, and interesting house parallels, but that hole needs to be ironed out (at least for me) before this theory works.
Hope I made sense!

[nat089]

Hey Maline! Good to see you back and writing! I've missed your editorials all these months you weren't around!

Anyway, I didn't really agree so much with the "Harry/Harry's Scar is the last horcrux" theory last time. Actually, I still don't really agree but I won't deny that your argument was quite convincing! I do agree with you that the scenario you outlined for the "final showdown", so to speak, would be really dramatic and full of symbolism and just wonderfully symmetrical. It is likely, if you think about it one way, but also unlikely if you think about it another way. Lots of If's there, like you said, and loads of speculation, questions and general uncertainty about things.

By the way, like aizan19 pointed out, you mentioned

Originally Posted by aizan19

there are really EIGHT horcurxes, but you counted the Gryffindor/Ravenclaw horcrux as two separate horcruxes, whereas in the book, it says "someting of Gryffindor OR Ravenclaw's".

I can see where you are coming from though... but I think what Harry really meant was eight possibilities of horcruxes, if he includes both something of Gryffindor's and something of Ravenclaw's as well as Nagini.

I also didn't think of the fact that if he had made seven horcruxes, there would in fact be 8 parts of his soul so thank you for pointing that out.

Anyway, even though this editorial of yours was a bit of a "dead horse" discussion because it's been discussed endlessly since HBP came out, I don't blame you because you did say you haven't really sorted out all the new information that was thrown at us in HBP. The thing about HBP is that JKR gives us so much more new information and yet conceals a lot too! So we get many new half-formed pictures... It was a bit disappointing this time to see a discussion of an old theory that's been discussed countless times already but thank you anyway for taking the time to write it. I'm just really glad you're back and writing again!

[Fieval]

Nice editorial, i like all the soul-splitting biz.
sorry if someone's already said this, haven't read all of the forum, but i hav two points:
im pretty sure harry's looking for something of gryffindor's OR ravenclaw's, not both. am positive that's wat dumbles says anyway.
and also, if voldemort didn't actually kill harry in godric's hollwo (which we know he didn't obviously), and only avada kedavra-ed him, then would his soul really split?
but i agree, harry's scar's a horcrux (james or lily's death perhaps), soooo exciting! and good point, there could have been 'something of gryffindor's' at godric's hollow that voldemort used, it would make sense.
this would then mean that harry's looking for something of ravenclaw's, the locket, the cup and possibly nagini as voldemort may not know harry's a horcrux (=8 horcruxes, not v magical)
sigh... how many days to go??

[npabbi]

even i think that voldemort didn't kill harry so it couldn't actually split his soul...but lily or james killing could have split his soul
everything that JKR says in her books has some importance.Godric's hollow sharing its name with the founder of gryffindor house is very significant.
i think that harry being a horcrux is a possiblity....it would twist the story even further.
as in the first book harry had to kinda sacrifice ron,ron may have to peform the hardest task of his life in the seventh book..........
if voldemort doesnot know that harry is a horcrux then he must have created 8 as he didn't count harry...
m awaiting the last book like anything.......

[SusanBones]

Congratulations, Maline, on your new job and all the other new and exciting things in your life. I agree that JK put some red herrings in HBP. I think that Nagini is a red herring. I like the idea that RAB already destroyed the horcrux in the locket. It seems like something JK would do. I agree that the horcrux count may also be a red herring and somehow there is a twist there.

I found out when HBP came out that I was wrong about some things and right about others. I know that will be true of book 7. So I am in the Harry is not a horcrux group. And I think that Dumbledore would have noticed if there was a horcrux staring at him every time he looked at Harry.

[NemorosaKnopp]

Originally Posted by yappa1

I think back to the times of reading OOTP and the locket section, the locker wasn't opened and while they tried to open it, I'm thinking don't do it leave it alone. That is probably the horcruxe and RAB didn't take care of it. I think only a parselmouth can open it safely. I also think that inside the locket is instructions on how to use the chamber of secrets written in parseltongue.

And exactly what is you evidense for that? I mean, as far as we know, you can't write parseltounge....

[fourth_task]

Hey Maline
Great Editorial.
I wonder if you guys have read the revision to the changeling hypothesis on redhen website. You can find it here:
http://www.redhen-publications.com/Changeling.html

It is long, but worth reading. After reading it I for one was convinced that the probability of Harry being a Horcrux is quite high. The point used in this hypothesis is that a "spell" has to be used to create the Horcrux which is the same spell to kill the person to put things in motion. And that is NOT the Avada Kedavra curse. Slughorn clearly says "there is a spell".
I can't believe just the act of killing by Avada Kedavra or other means other than this "spell"(whatever it is) for creating a Horcrux can split the soul. As mentioned in the redhen article, then how can you explain the accidental killings or killing in self-defence? Harry definitely killed Quirell, did his soul split in 2? I don't think so.
But if there is one spell that splits the soul, kills a person and put the fragment of the soul in a prepared object then we can explain the scar on Harry's forehead. Because we have been told over and over that Avada Kedavra does NOT leave any marks on the victim. Plus we don't know exactly when Voldemort created his other Horcruxes and who were the people killed for that purpose, except for DD's speculations.

Anyway, read the reivsed redhen article. It is very good and things are explained there much better than what I am trying to say here.

Cheers.

[Tawa]

A nice round editorial to welcome you back, Maline! I have been hanging out for the latest North Tower edition. It didn't really bring in any new ideas but you do have a way of summing things up.

The only thing you said that I really want to congratulate you on is your talk about drama and symmetry. People (and by people, I mean Potter fans and theorists) have begun to stop looking at the HP story for what it is - a book. JKR is a writer and I don't think anyone can soundly argue that she will not go for drama before she goes for scientific logic. She hasn't exactly been scientific so far.

That's the biggest Horcrux!Harry argument - this is a book and it has to go with a bang. None of the protests of "but Harry has to KILL Voldemort" and "Slughorn was saying it can't be accidental!" are truly solid when you remember that a story doesn't always follow the rules it has set for itself - it bends them like nobody's business, it breaks them if it has to. Maybe JKR has something even more dramatic in store, something even bigger than the Horcrux!Harry theory: but if she does, she's kept it very secret so far. So Horcrux!Harry remains the only (known) ending that will do the books any justice.