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Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?



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  #1  
Old June 12th, 2006, 7:03 am
buygraphpaper  Female.gif buygraphpaper is offline
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Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Discussion for Modern Magic, Gift or Curse? by Robbie Fischer.


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  #2  
Old June 12th, 2006, 10:43 am
sriharish  Male.gif sriharish is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

What a great editorial. We always fail to notice the things that are really happening in the Wizard world because there is a lot much humour in those details and also because the books are from Harry Potter's point of view- and he most of the time hears only things from other people, he knows Bill is a curse breaker but never actually seen him breaking the curse. The magical standards in the wizard world is really dropping compared to magic performed by wise and old wizards- it is hard to find the existence of pure magic. People in wizard world really fail to do certain bits of magic they always say it can be performed by powerful or able wizards; like for example a normal witch or wizard:
  1. Is afraid of appartition, they prefer brooms are much safer.
  2. And some are afraid of flying.
  3. Oh yeah, they don't conjure food by magic, maybe they think it might turn into poisoned food
  4. You've got people marrying muggleborns.
  5. And there is Muggle Studies subject (maybe newly included subject) at Hogwarts.
You are right, Harry Potter books do really need pre-technological and medival environment for the readers to enjoy,but time may come when wizards start saying "Wee-Mail".

But it is not a curse, the people in Wizard world are feeling bit locked up ever since the Statute of Secrecy was passed by Ministry of Magic. Yes, Wizards are slowly but surely becoming muggles, but we might not see it in the books ('cuz we don't want to).

Really cool editorial, 5 stars


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Old June 12th, 2006, 11:42 am
wannagoballwime  Male.gif wannagoballwime is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

um.......
ha ha, no, not actually i do have something to say
By taking Muggle achievments as superior, we should also be reminded of the simple fact that every point of life has 2 sides good or bad. Our technological superiority has some ups and a good share of some really steep downs. Some things suck, some don't.
Same with the magical community Most Wizarding folk are happy and well adjusted in their powers and roles something which we haven't even achieved in our daily lives.
Rowling deliberately created a world that was quirky and offbeat, because we all cherish such things.So many of us are materialistic, pessimistic, narcisstic all these characteristics and more are exhibited in potterverse as a negative. Power and the need for control spawned Voldemort.
We seek an escape from our existing worlds by taking a 10+ hour break in Rowling's imagination of a world which has no need for an iPod or H-bombs.
Our conquests in science our legendary, but our quest for enlightenment has been futile.
We really need A Dumbledore.


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Last edited by wannagoballwime; June 12th, 2006 at 11:48 am.
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  #4  
Old June 12th, 2006, 12:23 pm
libbypotter  Female.gif libbypotter is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Sorry I don't agree. There are HUGE advantages to magic.

Apparition can't compare to muggle travel & I'm sure most people would love to fly on a broomstick as opposed to a plane. For longer journeys there are portkeys - instantaneous travel.

Magic healing is miles ahead of muggle medicine. Madame Pomfrey can 'mend bones in an instant' and even regrow them. If you are thninking about Arthur and the snake bite in OoP remember it was the venom stopping the healing and muggle medicine DIDN'T work.

Can football compare to Quittich - I think not.

OK there is no TV in the magic world. I for one think this is a good thing, kids can use their imagination instead! No computers, they can use libraries as they can travel there instantly.

OK so there is discrimination but there is that in the real world too.

All in all I would go for the magic world if I had a choice!


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Old June 12th, 2006, 2:23 pm
Seeringrose  Female.gif Seeringrose is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

I agree wtih the two posts befor me.

I see no way that no matter how you look at it muggle technology is nowere near overcominh magic. And when you said that we have to keep things hidden. I think most wizards or witches make a few errors around muggles but thats what memory charms are for.


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  #6  
Old June 12th, 2006, 3:22 pm
mrsweasley5  Undisclosed.gif mrsweasley5 is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Did you have a plate of pessimism for dinner last night?

Okay, maybe that was a bit harsh but...no magic in the world...? What a depressing thought.

I for one would have loved to have been able to go to the neatest healer and have my teeth fixed instead of enduring 1&1/2 years of braces!


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  #7  
Old June 12th, 2006, 4:12 pm
nevillesgal  Female.gif nevillesgal is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

I thought the editorial was good, very well written and thought provoking. I especially enjoyed the part at Dumbledore, and I agree that losing him could cause more problems than we realize on the outset.

I do not think the wizarding world is dying out though, that it will come to an end and wizards will begin living like Muggles. JKR said in an interview that she would tell us a little about the people who survive the war at the end of book 7, and that one person will end up being a Hogwarts teacher. To me, this says that the wizarding world is not going anywhere, and Hogwarts is still going to be a necessary place for young magical folks.

I also think magic is superior to muggle technologies. I mean, we have problems everyday with technology. I can't imagine a Quidditch team wasting time waiting for hours at an airport when they could apparate or fly on their brooms. Sure, they can't be seen, which might pose some problems but in the grand scheme of things I definitely think brooms or apparition would be much faster than trying to fly in a muggle plane.

Anyway, good job thinking outside the box. Now I'm wondering if we will see another wizard with powers anywhere close to DD's. Another Dumbledore perhaps???


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Old June 12th, 2006, 4:40 pm
blessed_dragon  Female.gif blessed_dragon is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

I really enjoyed this editorial. Unlike a lot of the others before me, I can find some points that I agree with you on. The wizarding world is definitely dwindling away, and we know that it has been on the steady decline. We find this evident in the many families that have been wiped off the board. Eventually all of the purebloods will be extinct and the wizarding community will rely on Muggleborns and half-bloods. That isn't exactly a bad thing but it just means that a lot less people will be around.

There are some advantages to both Muggle technology and magic. Of course, Muggles are going to say that everything is simpler with magic. Just think it and it's there! No effort needed. But I think that magic does often make things a bit too easy. Wizards are amazingly lazy and we see that most of them lack creativity. Also, remember Fred and George told Harry that many people in the Ministry are unable to cast Concealment charms! The fact that Muggles do work harder to get things they want is healthier.

I also agree that by losing Dumbledore, the wizarding community is losing a lot more than we realize.


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  #9  
Old June 12th, 2006, 6:12 pm
Wafaa  Female.gif Wafaa is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

That was a really original and thought provoking editorial. However, i don't think muggle technology is necessarily superior. Magic can fix muggle problems in an instant, what it can't do, are things muggle couldn't dream of fixing. Besides, is it such a bad idea to hang on to something slightly simpler, and isn't that what makes us so passionate about the books, and attached to them?


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Old June 12th, 2006, 7:58 pm
MagicLantern  Undisclosed.gif MagicLantern is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

I have been thinking that wizards ought to try a better form of long distance communication than sticking their head in a fire and breathing in ashes... our telephones are better! But I liked libbypotter's post. There's lots in the magic world that is better. And Quidditch... way better than any Muggle sports. And they don't seem to have anything like our bombs... (I'm surprised they never talk about them).


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  #11  
Old June 12th, 2006, 8:22 pm
Chas  Male.gif Chas is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Great editorial! Thanks for the reflection. Like most posters, I agree that there are some advantages to magic and some advantages to Muggle technology.

What a great opportunity for sequels! If the outcome of the Voldemort War were to be the end of the magical world, then we could follow Harry and Hermione as they introduce technology, etc., to the surviving wizards and witches. Perhaps they would found Potter Institute of Muggle Society and Technology.

Great fun reading the editrial!


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  #12  
Old June 12th, 2006, 10:21 pm
Nidale93  Female.gif Nidale93 is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

I think this article was well written however i disagree; new spells are being created all the time. These spells can change the way things work. Spells for cooking, cleaning, and other such things are being enhanced and bettered; in HBP, we saw several new spells created by a sixteen or seventeen year old boy. This must mean that spells CAN be created, whether we see this happening or not. Besides, washing the dishes by hand or even in the dishwasher is not nearly as cool as waving a stick, saying "Scourgify!" and having them instantly clean themselves. However I do think your editorial was well-written; I simply disagree.

Another point I'd like to make: even if Muggle technology gets to the point where it is better than magic (which I think will take a very long time) I believe it would not be such a curse to live the way magical folk do in HP now. After all, they still can do many things quickly; if Muggle Technology surpasses magic, it won't be so bad becaus everything is fine anyway. Being a bit behind on technolgy isn't at all bad if you can not only live but flourish using what you have.

Also, I doubt magical folk would even know about a lot of Muggle technology. In the books most adult wizards are pretty much impaired when it comes to Muggle tech. In PoA, Sirius' "gun" is described as a Muggle wand that shoots fireballs. (I think I'm paraphrashing, i don't have the book with me.) This just shows how much the wizards know--guns shoot bullets, not fireballs.

And therefore I believe that although your article was very good, it doesn't completely make sense. My apologies for any offense.


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Old June 12th, 2006, 10:27 pm
shootingstar_50  Male.gif shootingstar_50 is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Thank you for giving us your opinion, I think you have been quite original (and brave) writting this editorial, but I completely disagree with your points of view.

1) MUGGLE SUPPERIORITY!!? I wish I could apparate at my job instead of spending an hour in the motorway every morning (going) and every evening (returning). If I could not have the license, and I had a fireplace in my home, I wouldn´t mind floo powder either. Even a flying car or a flying carpet would help!!. What about self cooking dishes, the "Reparo!" charm, everlasting fire, etc. In the books almost all wizards laugh (except freakies like Mr Weasley) at the complicated and uncomplete solutions desined by Muggles to deal with everyday problems.

2) Do you really think J.K.R. has created a decaying magical world? I do not think so. It is true that really valuable people have been lost for ever, but I think that new talents (see for example Hermione) might replace them one day. For me that is the symbolism of the Phoenix that Dumbledore represented, the old talent/power death for a renewed one to come.

3) Do you really intend to say that Hogwarts is a represive institution designed to crimple the magical talents and abilities of the new generations to save the world from such threat? Is Hogwarts a place to transform talented people in harmless and quiet but untalented ones?. I really hate this idea and what it would imply about Dumbledore (It would "Umbridgerize" him). In fact, this idea is what D.E. and Voldemort hinself proclaim. If it is true I can not see any worse ending for book 7. I prefer to think that it is posssible to make compassion, respect for other beings and talent compatible.



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  #14  
Old June 12th, 2006, 10:57 pm
belsito  Female.gif belsito is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Oh, what I would give for a house-elf and for self-stirring pots and pans! How many times have I wished I could use the accio charm to magic things downstairs from the rooms upstairs? How less stressed would I be to apparate at my place of work instead of having to leave early to try and beat the morning traffic jams. How can one say that our technology is superior for everyday use? OK they probably couldn't make it to the moon on their brooms but a self-stirring pot is much more useful to me than a few men having a little stroll on the moon. Also, I don't agree that the magic world is dying out. Just because pure-bloods are becoming scarcer, the mixing of blood would make their kind healthier and more likely to thrive, if anything. I think their numbers can only increase as their choices of finding a partner increases when they mix with muggles, and since their children are more likely to be magical than not (a lot of characters from the books seem to have one non-magical parent but we only know of two squibs). Although not a happy outcome, I have sometimes thought of Harry sacrificing and eventually losing his powers at the end of Bk7 as part of the plot to save wizardkind (and mankind!) from Voldemort. However I certainly hope that not even this will come to pass.


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Old June 12th, 2006, 11:31 pm
FishEByrd  Male.gif FishEByrd is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Thanks for your feedback. Clearly I have once again shot my mouth off in a way that - to put it nicely - serves as a conversation starter. You have all made good points - though I don't recall saying that Dumbledore was actually running Hogwarts as a "muggle vocational rehab" program; that was my idea of the purpose Hogwarts would serve if the magical community ends up being fatally damaged by the end of Book 7. After all, magical talent will still turn up in kids; maybe, even if the worst does happen, the magical world will make a comeback.

Also, I don't recall saying anything about pureblood versus half-blood, etc. Blood was not an issue in this editorial. But admit it, as wonderful as it would be to do magic, it gets harder and harder to do magic without being noticed, as the muggle world becomes more "developed" and "connected." Unless the wizarding world can survive a major change - the kind that it needs a Dumbledore to do - there may not be room for practicing witches and wizards for much longer.

Maybe JK has a different solution. I haven't seen Book 7 yet. But as shaky as my "theory" is, it's a possibility that shouldn't be overlooked. Not only Harry's life is at stake. He is fighting for the whole wizarding world. If he doesn't beat Voldemort in a big way, then it may not matter whether Harry lives or dies. There may not be a magical world for him to belong to! Wouldn't that stink?


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Old June 13th, 2006, 2:03 am
shooshawshuck  Undisclosed.gif shooshawshuck is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

A very well written editorial, but, I completely disagree with almost every statement in the article.


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Old June 13th, 2006, 2:06 am
CrookshanksG  Undisclosed.gif CrookshanksG is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

I still can't get over the way this editorial was written.

Spooky.

Like there really IS a wizarding world and a muggle world in today's society. That you could really go outside and wonder if your neighbor is a wizard.
The writting style of the editorial seems to have completely looked over the fact that the wizarding world only exists in books (as far as we're concerned).
But that this mixing of wizard and muggle is a REAL problem.

I'm not saying that it's bad that the editorial was written like that. Far from it. I just can't get over it. I don't know what I actually think about the subject of the editorial because my brain still stuck on how it was written.

Good job, though, honestly. I actually feel that if I look close enough, I'll see a broomstick flying overhead now. WEIRD.


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Old June 13th, 2006, 2:26 am
The Obsesser  Female.gif The Obsesser is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by libbypotter
Sorry I don't agree. There are HUGE advantages to magic.

Apparition can't compare to muggle travel & I'm sure most people would love to fly on a broomstick as opposed to a plane. For longer journeys there are portkeys - instantaneous travel.

Magic healing is miles ahead of muggle medicine. Madame Pomfrey can 'mend bones in an instant' and even regrow them. If you are thninking about Arthur and the snake bite in OoP remember it was the venom stopping the healing and muggle medicine DIDN'T work.

Can football compare to Quittich - I think not.

OK there is no TV in the magic world. I for one think this is a good thing, kids can use their imagination instead! No computers, they can use libraries as they can travel there instantly.

OK so there is discrimination but there is that in the real world too.

All in all I would go for the magic world if I had a choice!
Almost everyone would choose magic. But people don't usually have that choice. They're pretty much put in one world or another.

Harry asks in SS/PS what the heck the Ministry does, and Robbie's look-alike replies
Quote:
Well, their main job is to keep it from the Muggles that there's still witches an' wizards up an' down the country... [because] everyone'd be wantin' magic solutions to their problems. Nah, we're best left alone (pg 65).
Despite what libbypotter thinks, magic does not solve all our problems. Sure, wizards have more convienient forms of transportation. But there are also fewer wizards in the world, and longer distances must be traveled to reach one another. They certainly have more advanced medical technology. But there are also many more ways for them to get sick or injured. Magic does not solve all problems, but nor does it create them all. It simply amplifies them.

Robbie, I think that overall, this editorial was excellent. It is a bit alarming that Hagrid defines the Ministry's main job is to keep the existence of magic hidden from Muggles. And I've personally always thought it was a bit, well, wrong how seperated the two worlds were, and how no one seemed to be bothered by it. JKR's told us at some point that they will not be united, which I think is a shame. But I think at some point in Book 7, the effects of the seperation will take a heavy toll - and not in Harry's favor.


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  #19  
Old June 13th, 2006, 2:57 am
SoccerDM  Undisclosed.gif SoccerDM is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

You've made some interesting points, but I must say that I disagree with the value you've placed on magic vs. science/technology. It seemed as though you were arguing that modern day technology is superior to magic. Not to get into a big debate, but just think about the time, money, and efforts that is saved with magic.

For example, the means of transportation is much quicker with magic. Flew powder and aparatition vs. cars and airplanes. Not to mention you could shrink all of your luggage or possessions and place them in your pocket before you travel.
The simplicity of fixing everyday objects. You could mend broken glasses, dishes, televisions, and many more things in a few simple seconds-- Reparo.
Medical advances are much quicker and easier. Instead of surgery for a torn ACL, you could simply fix it with magic in 5 seconds, save money, and save 6 months of rehab time.(Sports would be much better off with magic because injury recovery is almost instantaneous)

The list goes on and on.

As I read the editorial it also seemed to me that your suggesting magic can't work with technology. This isn't true. We know that Hogwarts is sooo full of magic that technology equipment doesn't work, but there are very few "all magic places" that we've been told about. Magic can be used at the Dursley's home, so this proves that magic works in other Muggle establishments. If anything, only those few all magical locations would prevent modern day technology from working.


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Old June 13th, 2006, 4:58 am
CharAndDad  Undisclosed.gif CharAndDad is offline
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Re: Modern Magic, Gift or Curse?

Good editorial, an entertaining read. I agree almost completely.

Most wizards are simply not powerful enough to do anything more useful than hit muggles with memory charms it seems. Most of their employment seems to be either gov't work or the wrong side of the tracks. Half the wizard population seems to be working to prevent the other half from being found out.

You know why there's no wizard universities? They don't have anything else to teach so they don't need them. There's no professions, barely anything resembling science except on one or two floors of the ministry, not even any great literature or music, certainly not great enough to warrant a class in it anyway. I know I'd like more fulfillment from my life and job than either stealing something or preventing a muggle from discovering Diagon Alley.

I'm not even sure how their economy functions except that it seems to be based on gold even though the Muggle world is full of books on why that's a bad idea. Do they have social welfare? What is the income distribution like? It doesn't appear to be too good and might be a lot worse without the slave labour that is house elves. I detect that under the robes of Hogwarts is some serious societal issues that explode now and then by throwing out a Voldemort or Grindenwald. Perhaps they need a Keynes or Galbraith to start teaching a class at Hogwarts. Being able to drop by Gringotts and get a loan to start a business might revolutionize wizard society.

They do love their quidditch but I can't see why. Better than soccer/football? Quidditch should be played with just seekers, everyone else is unimportant anyway. You could get the same effect in football by giving a team 150 points if a certain player happens to score. Oh yeah, that'd be exciting.

As for communication, even Mugglenet is beyond them. I wonder how many even knew the names of the schools in other countries or had talked to foreign students before the Tri-Wizard tournament? They do seem to live in a bit of a shell, a very insular little community whose sole concern is to remain untouched.

On the other hand I suppose its good that Draco didn't realize he could just pop in to a gun shop and simply shoot Dumbledore at dinner. It was certainly more fun to spend a year trying to do it with magic. Avada Kedavra is unblockable? So is a bullet. In fact it could take out your standard arrogant ex-potions and DADA teacher from a mile away, he wouldn't even know it was coming.

Dumbledore read Muggle newspapers, he was aware of what his world and students were missing. Most are ignorant. Dumbledore should have made Muggle Studies a required class and encouraged them to spend a summer making friends with a muggle, perhaps even going over to their house so they can experience the Discovery Channel and Playstations. I think wizard-kind would have been the better for it if he had.


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