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The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater



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  #1  
Old July 18th, 2006, 5:30 pm
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The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Discussion for The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater by Emma C.


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  #2  
Old July 18th, 2006, 6:25 pm
MooMooImADuck  Undisclosed.gif MooMooImADuck is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

That is a very good theory. I never even noticed that the Rufus said a different curse and I forgot that Moody wasn't there. It's definitely something to keep in mind until Book 7.

Great job! Very Original.


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  #3  
Old July 18th, 2006, 6:29 pm
FBAWTFT  Female.gif FBAWTFT is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

WOW! a fab theory and i think you may have a point.....ever since dumbledores death i was in denial and concluded that his death was staged....your theory backs this up.

it would certainly explain alot....if he wanted to, dumbledore, the most powerful wizard, would surely have been able to save himself from the situation he was in up the tower. his main priority was to protext harry and i think he definatly has spys for voldemort. the absence of moody was also unexplainable but your idea gives him a location.

your theory also shows, as i have long suspected, that snape is good....he would have known and been involved about plans for dumbledores death. this is why he didn't hesitate to make the unbreakable vow, as the idea was that dumbledore should die (for some reason unbeknown to us) as part of dumbledores plan.

also, read back over the part when snape makes the vow and it appears he is bloking his mind from bellatrix who is trying to do occlumency. (his expression was "unreadable") this shows snape was trying to hide something.
i think dumbledore planned his death (with snapes help) as part of a plan against voldemort. it would make sense and your editorial shows this. there are tonnes of hidden clues in the books but you've picked up on this one and reakon you're right!!


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  #4  
Old July 18th, 2006, 6:42 pm
smyonson  Male.gif smyonson is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

I think that it is an interesting theory and I will have to re read that chapter carefully when I get to it, and see how the spells get mixed up. It very well might be that Moody is in disguise, and would then help Harry to understand the reason behind what happened on the tower, and have him and Snape working together again, but with JK you never know.


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Old July 18th, 2006, 7:10 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

i think this is a great theory. but in the editorial it said it could have been that scrimgeour may have got the spells mixed up. i think this is unlikley . if the BFDE isnt moody, then i think that scrimgeour just thought harry would slip up and correct him on the wrong spell and by doing that, admit he was on the tower.


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  #6  
Old July 18th, 2006, 7:18 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

I enjoyed your editorial, though I'm not quite convinced yet. Why Moody wasn't present certainly needs an explanation, and yours might work. But I must say I really think Dumbledore is dead, and in that case, it seems to be a very difficult task for Moody to be present just to make sure Snape kills Dumbledore, not Draco. If Dumbledore is still alive, though, I think your theory may be right.

Anyway, nice job!


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  #7  
Old July 18th, 2006, 7:21 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Excellent theory! I did notice that death eater and thought it peculiar but didn't apply your logic. Thanks for the idea!


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Old July 18th, 2006, 8:22 pm
misskneazle  Female.gif misskneazle is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

It is interesting, and a really well thought out theory. However, could it be a mistake by JKR? Or can stupefied be used in more general terms in some cases if the effect is similar? Maybe. How could he(Scrimgeour) have rephrased it using the actual spell that was used on BFDE? It's plausible, but I'm not leaning toward believing it, because my belief is strongly against Snape being good, and I still think more evidence points in that direction. You did a great job though!


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  #9  
Old July 18th, 2006, 8:28 pm
Jacob_Marley Jacob_Marley is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Ok, I've got to give this one an unequivocal No. The problem with this theory is that it is based on the theory that Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him. I reject that theory totally. Killing is, as Shughorn tells us, the supreme act of evil. Dumbledore has dedicated his life to opposing evil and for him to order anyone's killing, even his own, is a total violation of who he is.

Secondly, the theory relies on a single very weak thread, being the misidentification of the spell used. This could be a slip by Rowling, or careless language by Scrimgouer, or, as sugested above, an attempt to trap Harry into admitting he was on the tower that night. I'm sorry, but this is simply not enough to hold the theory together.


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  #10  
Old July 18th, 2006, 8:45 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob_Marley
The problem with this theory is that it is based on the theory that Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him. I reject that theory totally.

Secondly, the theory relies on a single very weak thread, being the misidentification of the spell used. This could be a slip by Rowling, or careless language by Scrimgouer, or, as sugested above, an attempt to trap Harry into admitting he was on the tower that night. I'm sorry, but this is simply not enough to hold the theory together.
I agree. This theory is interesting, but I just re-read the parts where the brutal-faced Death Eater is mentioned, and although his few actions do seem to be stalling in the same way Snape says not to kill Harry because the Dark Lord wants him (the Death Eater says not to kill Dumbledore because Draco must do it), there is no real evidence to support the Moody theory. Yes, Moody wasn't there. But we have no idea why. I don't think that Dumbledore planned on Snape killing him, even if he did plead for Snape to kill him when the time called on it as the only option.


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  #11  
Old July 18th, 2006, 8:57 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Interesting idea. Kinda pushing it so far as it being Moody though. Keep up the good work...

OMT


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  #12  
Old July 18th, 2006, 9:01 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Hmm...could be. Nice theory, something to think about.


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  #13  
Old July 18th, 2006, 9:14 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Polyjuice potion has to be administered hourly. It would have worn of soon after the MoM guys got to the stunned Moody if this were true, or perhaps even before. Thus, Scrimgeour would have known by the time that he spoke to Harry that it was not a Death Eater, but Moody.


I think that we can just attribute this to JKR not completely editting her own work, or perhaps even


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  #14  
Old July 18th, 2006, 9:23 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

I agree with Wimsey about Polyjuice--plus Moody would have had to get part of whichever DE he was impersonating.

I like Kicker's idea that Scrimgeour was trying to trap Harry.


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Old July 18th, 2006, 9:31 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Nice catch about the mixed up spells. I have to agree with Wimsey, though. I think it was either a mistake on the Minister's part or on JKR's.
Just because it doesn't say that he escapes or was captured, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Unless I missed something, I don't remember Greyback leaving the caste either.


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Old July 18th, 2006, 10:08 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

I think everyone's been missing something important here: the DEs set up a barrier that Harry assumed, and I think he was right, only allowed people who have been branded with the dark mark to pass. Even if Moody did use the polyjuice potion, as he has never been branded with the dark mark by Voldemort I don't think it would've let him pass. I think it was just a mistake made by Rowling, but it's nice to see people pay attention to details.


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  #17  
Old July 18th, 2006, 10:27 pm
mor37011 mor37011 is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

The most probable theory is that JKR/Scrimgeour said "stupified" in a general way. The most interesting part of this theory is, "where exactly was Moody?" I'd like to hear more theories on that subject. Good editorial and good attention to detail!


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  #18  
Old July 18th, 2006, 10:40 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

Quote:
Originally Posted by limi
I think everyone's been missing something important here: the DEs set up a barrier that Harry assumed, and I think he was right, only allowed people who have been branded with the dark mark to pass. Even if Moody did use the polyjuice potion, as he has never been branded with the dark mark by Voldemort I don't think it would've let him pass. I think it was just a mistake made by Rowling, but it's nice to see people pay attention to details.
Good catch - unless the dark mark also appears on a person who takes polyjuice potion, the same way Barty Jr had to wear Moody's fake eye.

This editorial took a lot of careful thought. I don't see too many innovative ideas, things that others didn't notice before, but this editorial found one. I agree with Jacob_Marley that this editorial depends on the theory that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him. And I just don't think Dumbledore would do that. And I agree with Wimsey that this is just a JK slipup or an editorial goof.

But good job thinking of a new angle.



Last edited by SusanBones; July 19th, 2006 at 3:15 am.
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  #19  
Old July 18th, 2006, 10:49 pm
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

I don't buy the idea that there was a member of the order of the Phoenix there to make sure that Snape killed Dumbledore. What's next? Is some Snape lover going to suggest that Tonks helped Malfoy get his cabinet to work in order to set up the Snape kills Dumbledore scene because Dumbledore wanted to be murdered by snape in front of Harry?

How about this: Scrimgeour was an Auror and the head of Magical Law Enforcement. He's probably about as paranoid as Moody but maybe just a bit smarter. Afterall he did make it to the top. Scrimgeour was fishing for information. He deliberately misnamed the spell that was used on the Death Eater on the tower in hopes of eliciting a response from Harry. If Harry had said, "I don't know who Petrified that Death Eater." Scrimgeour would have him. It's just a standard interrogation trick.


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  #20  
Old July 18th, 2006, 11:07 pm
YaMo YaMo is offline
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Re: The Mystery of the Stupefied Death Eater

You guys believe everything
This theorie is complete ****

And about where Moody was: Dumbledore just called some Order members to patrol the corridors while he was gone. Not the whole order will be there, just a couple of people. Moody just wasn't part of it.



Last edited by YaMo; July 18th, 2006 at 11:12 pm.
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