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Slythering Snape

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Old July 30th, 2006, 2:10 pm
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Slythering Snape

Discussion for Slythering Snape by Mr. and Mrs.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 2:57 pm
Ticci  Female.gif Ticci is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Just to have thought of this idea makes you pretty brilliant Very creative thinker.

I think your editorial is very well explored and see how your research supports your theory. I also think you might very well be correct.

I do have a couple of comments.

"Nagini is also present in Goblet's graveyard scene. This point is a crucial one, as it explains why Voldemort took no apparent notice of Snape's absence from the Dark Lord's rebirth."
> Volde did comment on each of the missing DE's and Snape's absence was addressed in Spinner's End between Snape and Belatrix.

"Voldemort killed the Muggle, not as Dumbledore stated, "he used Nagini to kill an old Muggle man." Again, Dumbledore is either mistaken or intentionally misleading in order, perhaps to protect Snape as Nagini."
> I too noticed this error upon my first reading of HBP. I posted it in the forum but it was moved to horcruxes and lost. I think it's a red herring having to do with identification of the final horcrux.

Good Job!!!

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Old July 30th, 2006, 4:12 pm
sriharish  Male.gif sriharish is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

hmmm....OMG What a theory, I think anything can be turned and twisted to suite our needs. You just twisted many things here

1) Nagini is always belived to be a Female snake

2) Voldemort would easily recognize if it's not

3) A Spy, possible Double agent and a part-time Snake Animagi with Occlumency power is simply impossible.

4) and yeah, he has got a Horcrux inside him, so you are telling us that Dumbledore would leave such a dangerous object in a school where thousands of people live?

5) Horcurxes are supposed to be dangerous because a soul lives inside it. (see COS)

Anyway, good material for fan-fiction- way too Extreeemly far fetched. Sorry i don't agree. Lets see what others say.


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Old July 30th, 2006, 4:26 pm
mrsweasley5  Undisclosed.gif mrsweasley5 is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

I think this is waaay to much if a stretch but it's a cool idea and fun to think about.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 4:34 pm
erzebetbathory  Female.gif erzebetbathory is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Very interesting, but your first point is moot:
Voldemort did notice Snape's absence:
"and one that I believe has left me forever, he will die of course"
and that's about Snape.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 5:05 pm
im_her_one  Female.gif im_her_one is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

I'm sorry, I still don't think this a terribly possible theory. I mean, yes it is possible, and it would give a lot of people a big shock in book seven, but it seems a little too dubious to me. For example, I don't think Dumbledore would intentionally mislead Harry. Yes, he could be mistaken, but if Snape is Nagini, I think Dumbledore would know enough about that (information from Snape) not to be mistaken. Also, just because Snape is described as hissing alot doesn't necessarily mean he's an animagus snake - I can think of multiple instances where decidedly good characters (Hermione, for example) are described as hissing.
And, finally, let's not forget that when Harry sees Mr. Weasley attacked, it's through NAGINI'S eyes, because Voldemort is possessing him/her/it. I don't think Snape would be too keen on that idea. He likes to be in control, not the one being controlled. Now, granted, I don't think Snape would be dumb enough to tell Voldy to step off upon hearing that Voldy's going to possess him. However, if Voldy did possess Snape/Nagini, would Snape still be a master Occlumens in Nagini form? Or would Voldy have access to the thoughts that Snape normally uses Occlumency to hide from him? That could be potentially problematic for TFPWWNBN (a name for Snape I like, brought about in the Underground Lake #27).

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Old July 30th, 2006, 5:06 pm
MagicLantern  Undisclosed.gif MagicLantern is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

This editorial deserves points for a very wacky and funny idea! But the main problem is, as said above, that Voldemort thought Snape had left him forever.

About Nagini not being a Horcrux:
Originally Posted by editorial
DD says that Voldemort reserves the process of making Horcruxes for particularly significant deaths. How significant is an elderly, unknown Muggle?
Frank Bryce isn't just anyone, as people keep insisting. He is a Muggle associated with Voldemort's Riddle relatives, the man who remained loyal to that dratted Riddle Mansion and kept taking care of it long after the Riddles were gone.

The reason I think Nagini would have looked like a very attractive Horcrux at the time when Voldemort made her (when he was Babymort), is that, as Dumbledore says, it gives Voldemort a great amount of control over her. At that time, Voldy had precious few loyal followers: Peter is hardly what Voldy would call a satisfactory partner in crime. And about Barty Crouch Jr, Voldy was only beginning to find out. Voldemort also I am sure had lost his trust in pretty much all his Death Eaters after none of them went to find him.

Thus, Nagini makes a very attractive Horcrux for this reason: Voldemort can use her as an absolute ally in the coming years, which is more than he can say about any of his followers. As with the diary, he had to compromise on safety issues, but the use to which he is putting Nagini makes up for the risk.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 5:56 pm
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Re: Slythering Snape

This is from Mugglenet name origins:
Nagini - "Naga" is "snake" in Sanskrit and "Nagin" means "female snake" in Urdu. A reference to Rudyard Kipling's cobra character Nagina, referred to as Nagini in some translations?
I think it's pretty clear that Nagini is a girl and just a snake. A powerful, magical snake, but just a snake.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 6:30 pm
mor37011 mor37011 is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

A little too far-fetched, but five stars for creativity. The most interesting part was Dumbledore saying that V used Nagini to kill the muggle man...that couldn't have happened, as Frank came out of V's wand!

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Old July 30th, 2006, 7:05 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Snape says Voldemort thought he was the one who'd left him forever in Spinners End, Half-Blood Prince.

If Snape were Nagini, why would he be surprised to discover during the Occlumency lessons in Order that Harry's having visions of the MoM? This is after he saw/experienced Nagini attack Arthur there. If he were Nagini, wouldn't he be aware of that?

And why would Snape be Nagini? He already has access to Voldemort, so he doesn't need to be a snake for that.

That Snape does get around--he's a vampire, he's a spider, he's a bat, he's Trevor the toad, he's Nagini. Maybe that's the revelation of Book 7; Snape is everyone!

WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 7:06 pm
nononsense  Female.gif nononsense is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Interesting, but a bit farfetched. Just a thought, the DE who VM mentioned leaving him forever was not Snape but Karkarov, who we know fled at the end of GoF and who was said to have been killed in OotP(?) I believe. The missing mention of Snape in the graveyard is intriguing though.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 8:00 pm
1hp2  Female.gif 1hp2 is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Very interesting and clever theory, even though I don't agree. Well thought out though!

My main problem is that makes Snape a possible Horcrux. I just don't really think he is.

But, Nagini did alert Voldemort to Franks presence in the House, so in an indirect way, Nagini was part of Frank Bryce's death. So, how does Dumbledore know that? Granted, he can know things aroung Hogwarts, but how did he know details of Frank Bryce's death? Your theory could help explain that.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 8:24 pm
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Re: Slythering Snape

Dear Authors:

I don't know if you frequent CoS forums, so maybe you are unaware that theories abound that Snape is something other than a wizard - my favorite is that Snape is also Trevor the Toad who goes to the future and back, but this new "Snape is a Female Snake" theory is much more easily debunked.

I'm sorry, but you just haven't looked at the text closely enough. Canon just doesn't back up your basic assertion that the Snake and Nagini could be the same entity.

Originally Posted by Editorial
Nagini in GoF

My favorite quote from all of the Harry Potter series is this: "...the story had been picked over so many times, and had been embroidered in so many places, that nobody was quite sure what the truth was anymore" (GoF, chapter one). This is just how I feel about the "Nagini is female" statements. Nagini, when introduced in GoF, is not once referred to as "she," only as "it" or "the snake."

It seems that one of the main reasons people think Nagini is female is because, in this same chapter, Nagini was "milked." The snake, however, was milked for its poison! Isn't that done by squeezing the poison from its mouth? Voldemort is not drinking Nagini's milk, as is done in breast feeding, but using the milked poison as part of a potion.
I hate to ruin a new "Snape is Something Other than a Man" theory, but this statement isn't true. People believe Nagini is female, because the characters say she is female - including Voldemort, her owner, and Peter, who "milks her."

In the first chapter of GoF, "The Riddle House," we read:

The Riddle House

"Where is Nagini," said the cold voice.

"I - I don't know, My Lord," said the first voice nervously. "She set out to explore the house, I think."

"You will milk her before we retire, Wormtail," said the second voice."

  • There is no way that Snape is a Female Snake.
  • If Snape was a Female Snake, there is no way that Peter would be allowed near him/her to "milk" the venom.
  • There is no way Snape, as a Female Snake, would crawl up to Mr. Weasley and bite a bloody chunk out of him in OotP.
  • And there is no way that Snape as a Female Snake swallowed Frank Bryce whole and made him disappear.

And as far as the "Hissing" theory goes - Sigh - it makes me hiss just to think of it. Lots of people in the books are described as "hissing," as in "whispering." Snape often speaks in a whispery voice, but so do Ron, Hermione, and Harry - and these are just a few examples I found quickly using Google Search:

Hissy Fits

Ron Hisses

Ron hissed at Hermione as she stared down the article. "I told you not to annoy Rita Skeeter!(GoF)

“Over here! Come and sit over here!” Ron hissed.* “Over here!* Hermione, budge up, make a space – “
“Too late,” said Ron bitterly.
Viktor Krum and his fellow Durmstrang students had settled themselves at the Slytherin table.

Hermione Hisses

'And in your first year,' said Neville to the group at large, 'he saved that Philological Stone –'
'Philosopher's,' hissed Hermione.
'Yes, that – from You-Know-Who,' finished Neville. (OP16)

" 'Seen anything yet?' Harry asked them, after a quarter of an hour's quiet crystal gazing.
'Yeah, there's a burn on this table,' said ron pointing. 'Someone's spilt their candle.
'This is such a waste of time,' Hermione hissed.
'I could be practising something useful. i could be catching up on Cheering charms-'
Professor TreLawney rustled past. (PoA)

Harry Hisses - ALOT!

'Quick! In the wardrobe!' hissed Harry, stuffing Dobby in, shutting the door . . . (CoS)

"Can this be?" said Malfoy, sounding maliciously delighted; some of the Death Eaters were laughing again, and under cover of their laughter, Harry hissed to Hermione, moving his lips as little as possible, "Smash shelves-" (OotP)

So unless you allow for all the other people who hiss, then the fact that Snape occasionally does isn't very persuasive.

Unless you believe they are all gender bending snakes - possibly for another essay?


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Last edited by silver ink pot; July 30th, 2006 at 8:45 pm.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 9:25 pm
nevillesgal  Female.gif nevillesgal is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Good thinking, very creative and I enjoyed reading it. I do, however, think its a little out there. It's possible, but not probable. What about when Voldemort possessed the snake to attack Arthur Weasley? Maybe it dosen't actually say it was Nagini, but I always assumed it was. I don't think he would posses Snape as a snake, and also, if DD knew about him being the snake, then he would be very suspicious about his "double agent" attacking an Order member.

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Last edited by nevillesgal; July 30th, 2006 at 9:33 pm.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 10:05 pm
emmamoine emmamoine is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

I'm confused...is this article trying to be serious or is it a clever satire of the theories people come up with?

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Old July 30th, 2006, 11:43 pm
lafemmenissa  Female.gif lafemmenissa is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Thank you, Silver Ink Pot. You took the words right out of my, well, fingers I guess.

I'm really sorry, but this is just another case of grasping for straws. In the interview that you mentioned at the end of the editorial, Jo was being facetious about all of the wild theories about Snape and others that keep cropping up:

MA: It goes back to the question of whether Snape is a double-double-double-triple-

JKR: [Laughs] Double-double-quadruple-to-the-power-of - yeah.
Please note here that she's not agreeing that he's a "double-double-double-triple" agent , she's agreeing with Melissa's saying that people can go a litlle overboard when trying to come up with explanations.

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Old July 30th, 2006, 11:58 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

nononsense, I believe Karkaroff is the "one too cowardly to return . . . he will pay" (GOblet, "The Death Eaters, p. 651 US). He's pretty cowardly throughout the book and "pays" (he's found dead) in Order or Half-Blood.

WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
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Old July 31st, 2006, 3:30 am
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Re: Slythering Snape

An interesting theory but, to say the least, unlikely. Still, it is original and quite amusing and certainly worth reading. All the same, though, I strongly doubt we will see this theory proven in book seven.

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Old July 31st, 2006, 3:45 am
Seeringrose  Female.gif Seeringrose is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Unless you believe they are all gender bending snakes
Soo many fan fic possiblities


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Old July 31st, 2006, 4:01 am
ptrut12345  Undisclosed.gif ptrut12345 is offline
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Re: Slythering Snape

Five words: The Eye of the Snake. This chapter completely refutes your argument. If Snape were Nagini, I don't think he would need or want to allow Voldemort to possess him to try to sneak into the Dept of Mysteries. If he was hiding it from Voldemort, I'd think Voldemort would notice something was going on when he possessed Nagini. Not to mention Nagini was involved even before Snape had returned to Voldemort.

Harry had a dream in GoF wherein Voldemort told Nagini that regretably she would not be eating Wormtail for his failure. Snape was at the school, asleep, supposedly at the time. Fake Moody had the Marauder's Map and would have been keeping an eye on things to ensure no one discovered his father's body, so Snape leaving the castle and returning in the night would have been a ridiculous stretch. This was the same day he killed his father and buried him.

Snape would have had a bugger of a time the night of Voldemort's return, if he were Nagini. He would have had to slither off, without DEs or Voldemort noticing, turn back into a human, Disapparate and apparate outside the school boundaries, rush across the grounds, and meet Dumbledore and McGonagall in time to go stop Fake Crouch from killing Harry without sweating and pretending to have been there the whole time. Would you have gone to so much trouble if you had no idea what you would be needed to do? It's superhuman and I don't know that Snape is that good at divination. This is all supposing that Snape didn't happen to drink Felix that night to help him out.

Also, it has been suggested that Snape's animagus form could be that of a fox. At the beginning of Spinner's End (HBP), Bellatrix killed a fox, thinking it might be an auror in disguise. This could be a hint at a tie-in with that animal form. This is all as speculative as the article itself, but wouldn't a fox be an appropriate animagus for him?

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