Harry Potter Read-A-Thon - POA - Ch 7: Boggart; Ch 8: Flight of the Fat Lady

[gertiekeddle]

Originally Posted by ignisia

In this chapter, Firenze saves Harry from QuirrelMort. Ronan and Bane yell at him for going against the stars and aligning with humans.

So does this mean that the stars say that Harry dies? Did Firenze's act prevent this, or is Harry still in danger?

For me that is still open. But a clue seems to be that even Firenze said that the stars are lieing sometimes.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by gertiekeddle

For me that is still open. But a clue seems to be that even Firenze said that the stars are lieing sometimes.

Actually, the stars don't lie, Firenze said on occasion the stars are misread, even by the centaurs.

The centaurs read events in a "big picture" way, it's not like seeing into the more immediate future (like Trelawney's 2 real prophecies).

But anyway we don't really know what Firenze was referring to, only that it involved Harry and Voldemort. Or perhaps only Voldemort, we just don't know. Since it's likely Firenze knew the Potter story (perhaps saw the precursor of someone stopping Voldemort in the stars), he had the benefit of time for interpretation in putting characters into the events they read in the stars. As we know, they read events on a larger scale. Perhaps it was just showing the return of the former evil (which the centaurs knew to be Voldemort), and a mortal combat with a defender (which the centaurs know it's likely to be Harry, because of the events at Godric's Hollow). The centaurs look to the stars for the large scale signs of change, but they look to what's going on in the magical world to interpret the details.

[gertiekeddle]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Actually, the stars don't lie, Firenze said on occasion the stars are misread, even by the centaurs.

Oh, that's true. I was imprecise.

It's a good point that the centaurs look at magical world, too. You can't interpretate without that.

[FuzzyMuffins]

How about changing the title, Tiberius?

Harry's philoshophy of keeping out of things than don't concern him sounds very much like a Vernonism. Good thing he stopped living by this by the sixth book, when he was tailing Malfoy. I think he now considers everything to do with the war and Voldmort concerns him. Reminds of a quote from OoTP. "There are many things in the DoM, few of which you would understand and none of which concern you."

Voldemorts in a tight corner. What with the unicorn blood and the split soul, I am suprised Voldemort is as strong as he is.

Mars is bright. Mars is the planet of war. Given that the war "officially" starts in book 6, 5 years later, I wonder if Mars has been bright all through the series.

This chapter can be used as proof that Harry dies. We know that the centaurs deal with big events that will affect the world. Given that the only proof they have of Voldemort returning is Mars, how can they predict Harry's death?

[ignisia]

Originally Posted by FuzzyMuffins

How about changing the title, Tiberius?

Harry's philoshophy of keeping out of things than don't concern him sounds very much like a Vernonism.

Yeah, I was wondering why it was the same title on Saturday...

Anyway, I disagree that minding his own business is like Vernon. Vernon is pretty agressive. He likes to intimidate people, so it seems like he'd be almost as nosy and thrusting as his wife.

Harry and co.'s behavior after getting the points taken away interests me. Especially Hermione's reaction. She becomes quiet and doesn't want to draw attention to herself. I wonder how mean the other students were to her and her friends.

[FuzzyMuffins]

Originally Posted by ignisia

Anyway, I disagree that minding his own business is like Vernon. Vernon is pretty agressive. He likes to intimidate people, so it seems like he'd be almost as nosy and thrusting as his wife.

Sorry for not beng clear, I meant something Vernon would tell Harry. Remember when he said "Don't ask questions,"?

[Tiberius]

Title changed to Chapter 15, in which our hero has dentention in the Forbidden Forest and encounters some very cryptic ceantaurs.

Sorry about that, Guys. Glad to see you went on anyway.

[ignisia]

Thanks, Tib!

Originally Posted by FuzzyMuffins

Sorry for not beng clear, I meant something Vernon would tell Harry. Remember when he said "Don't ask questions,"?

Oh! Ok, then, yes, I'd agree. Funny how hypocritical the Dursleys are. They tell Harry to mind his own business, and yet they're total busybodies.

[storyteller]

The thing that I find odd is that Ron keeps getting hurt, and each time it is more serious and Harry and Hermoine have to do some important task. I hope this does not mean that Ron is going to die in the last book.

When Macgonigal catches Malfoy, I don't understand why she throws the book at Neville. I understand he has to get in trouble, but not to the same extent as Harry and Hermoine, unless Macgonigal thought that that would be the thing that would really effect Harry.

[mugglebeki]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

The centaurs read events in a "big picture" way, it's not like seeing into the more immediate future (like Trelawney's 2 real prophecies).

Exactly, but they are quite enigmatic and do not share their knowledge with humans. Most definitely, they do not interfere. I think the centaurs have a pretty good picture of what will happen.

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

But anyway we don't really know what Firenze was referring to, only that it involved Harry and Voldemort. Or perhaps only Voldemort, we just don't know. Since it's likely Firenze knew the Potter story (perhaps saw the precursor of someone stopping Voldemort in the stars), he had the benefit of time for interpretation in putting characters into the events they read in the stars.

I was wondering how Firenze knew that the boy he saved from Voldemort was Harry Potter, nobody had introduced them (Hagrid had introduced Harry and Hermione to Ronan and Bane, but Harry had been alone when Firenze saved him). So, he must have read it in the stars and interpreted it correctly, as you mention.

Originally Posted by FuzzyMuffins

Mars is bright. Mars is the planet of war. Given that the war "officially" starts in book 6, 5 years later, I wonder if Mars has been bright all through the series.

Thanks for mentioning that. I knew there was a key meaning to Mars, but I could not quite recall this. As has been mentioned above, the centaurs are seeing the bigger picture, so they see how the pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together. I'm sure they know the outcome of the plot.

[Lizard381]

Originally Posted by Freaky

I also always found it odd that Hagrid pairs Draco with Neville to begin with. Obviously he's doing it because he's grateful to Harry about the dragon and things but he should have known that Draco would try and upset Neville.

You have to remember that Hagrid hasn't had Draco as a student yet, he has him as a student starting in POA, the only previous encounter he's really had with Draco is when he spots him spying on him with Norbert. Plus Hagrid is a pretty forgiving person.

Originally Posted by mugglebeki

I was wondering how Firenze knew that the boy he saved from Voldemort was Harry Potter, nobody had introduced them (Hagrid had introduced Harry and Hermione to Ronan and Bane, but Harry had been alone when Firenze saved him). So, he must have read it in the stars and interpreted it correctly, as you mention.

Harry's scar?

[mugglebeki]

Well, I wasn't thinking precisely this. I think they knew about Harry's existence and his role in the war that would come way before Harry even came to Hogwarts, and then when Firenze saw him in the forest he recognized Harry. I'm not too sure if he saw Harry's scar, but Firenze definitely saw that Harry was in danger and stepped in to save him, to the disaproval of Bane and Ronan. When he tells them, "This is the Potter boy. The sooner he leaves this forest, the better", makes me wonder if the centaurs knew that eventually Harry would battle Voldemort.

[62442al_Man]

My stance on the subject is that of what Dobby said in CoS. Harry is a light in the dark for all the low creatures that are forced into doing things against their will. Same with centaurs, though they don't let on much. Firenze is the Dobby of centaurs. Whether or not Centaurs can really see the future is irreleavant.

[owlpostgirl]

Originally Posted by Freaky

One minor-ish thing I'd like to ask is don't you think that detention in the Forbidden Forest is a rather harsh punishment for 11/12 year old boys - especially given that something evil is killing the unicorns and Hagrid can't be in two places at once? I think they would have preferred Filch's choice of hanging them up by their ankles etc.

*I* certainly would have preferred ankle-hanging to running around the Forbidden Forest in the middle of the night.

I agree this sounds a bit ridiculous for a punishment. It seems ironic that after McGonagall scolds Hermione, Harry and Neville -

Ch15 '...nothing gives you the right to walk around school at night, especially these days, it's very dangerous...'

- she assigns them a a detention in which they must walk around the Forbidden Forest at night.

It's also rather striking to me that Draco says he'll complain to his father about this punishment because it's 'servant work'. Either Draco has a poor understanding of how dangerous the Forest is, or his dad has worse priorities than I've imagined in the past.

Originally Posted by ignisia

In this chapter, Firenze saves Harry from QuirrelMort. Ronan and Bane yell at him for going against the stars and aligning with humans.

So does this mean that the stars say that Harry dies? Did Firenze's act prevent this, or is Harry still in danger?

My guess is the stars were talking more about the impending confrontation between Harry and LV as spoke of in the prophecy. But Harry thought it had to do with LV in the Forbidden Forest ('Bane thinks Firenze should have let Voldemort kill me').

[ignisia]

Another thought...

McGonagall's taking 150 in one go seems very unfair. Even Snape has only taken in one go--what? About 50?

[Cadia]

Originally Posted by owlpostgirl

I agree this sounds a bit ridiculous for a punishment. It seems ironic that after McGonagall scolds Hermione, Harry and Neville -

Ch15'...nothing gives you the right to walk around school at night, especially these days, it's very dangerous...'

- she assigns them a a detention in which they must walk around the Forbidden Forest at night.

Although it does seem a bit out of character for McGonogall, I will venture to suggest that she assigned this detention so they could actually see first hand the reason for the rule. I don't think her plan worked too well, though.

Originally Posted by ignisia

McGonagall's taking 150 in one go seems very unfair. Even Snape has only taken in one go--what? About 50?

On the last page someone had a good answer to that, which I agree with: it puts Gryffindor in position to have the major comeback (and therefore happy ending) at the end of term. That's quite a nice little general rule of good novel writing: have everything go badly until the very end when you turn it around. Plays to the readers emotions, you know?

p.s. Amusing signature, ignisia.

[Rell]

Originally Posted by owlpostgirl

*I* certainly would have preferred ankle-hanging to running around the Forbidden Forest in the middle of the night. I agree this sounds a bit ridiculous for a punishment. It seems ironic that after McGonagall scolds Hermione, Harry and Neville - Ch15'...nothing gives you the right to walk around school at night, especially these days, it's very dangerous...' - she assigns them a a detention in which they must walk around the Forbidden Forest at night.

Maybe Hagrid was a bit vague about what he meant to do, or he switched plans without telling anyone when he felt the situation was too urgent. And Filch would never have told on Hagrid if it meant torturing a student.

[I_love_HP]

Here's my overview for chapter 15. It's a little more detailed than necessary, but I'm overly annalytical at times so bear with me.



Chapter 15: The Forbidden Forest

1) Neville gets in troublefor trying to warn harry and Hermine. (I agree that his punishment was a little harsh.)
2) Harry overhears Quirrel in the classroom; assumes Snape got to him
Quote: "No - not again - please"
3) detention with Hagrid in the forest
4) Hagrid and Malfoy trade words
- Malfoy has reason to hate Hagrid; finds way to get back at him in PoA
5) group looking for injured unicorn
6) meet Roran and Bane in forest
Roran quotes: "Always the innocent are the first victims."
"The forest hides many secrets."
7) Harry finds hooded figure drinking unicorn blood (Quirrell); earlier quote in classroom probably a reference to unicorn's blood
- Firenze saves Harry
8) Harry figures out that Voldemort is the one after the stone; also figures the stars say he is coming back
- Bane quote: "Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens. Have we not read what is to come in the movements of the planets?"
*note - How did Firenze know where to be in order to save Harry? Pehaps this quote means they knew what would happen that night.
- Firenze quote: "The planets have been read wrongly before now, even by centaurs. I hope this is one of those times."
9) Harry finds his cloak returned to him with a note that says, "Just in case."


My theories:

- Planets predicted Voldemorts return. This is why Firenze hopes the signs have been read wrong.
- Dumbledore returns Harry's cloak because he knows Harry will try to stop Voldemort and wants him to have the tools necessary to do it.

[Paintball]

Originally Posted by I Love HP

Dumbledore returns Harry's cloak because he knows Harry will try to stop Voldemort and wants him to have the tools necessary to do it.

If interested, you might want to read the SS/PS trap perspective in my signature. It looks at book 1 in a totally different perspective.

[I_love_HP]

Originally Posted by Paintball

If interested, you might want to read the SS/PS trap perspective in my signature. It looks at book 1 in a totally different perspective.

I have actually already read part of that thread. It was very interesting.