Why did Dumbledore have James's invisibility cloak at the time of his death?

[Annett]

In New York, a girl asked Jo:

'what question have you never been asked that you ought to have been asked?'

She answered this question today on her site:

Why did Dumbledore have James' invisibility cloak at the time of James' death, given that Dumbledore could make himself invisible without a cloak?

Prior to posting this I had a quick look on-line, and realised that some fans have been speculating about this question. However, nobody has ever asked me about it, and they really should have done. Just to allay the fears of the justifiably suspicious, this isn't what we in the know call 'a Mark Evans situation.'* There IS a significant - even crucial - answer.

* Note to newcomers: my attempt to put to rest certain wild theories about the unimportant character of 'Mark Evans' backfired when I inadvertently built up even more excitement by promising to explain his significance.

But the answer grant much space for speculation. Therefore I think, it needs an own thread.

My own idea is, that James gave the cloak to Dumbledore, because the order find it useful exact like in OotP where Moodys cloak is used to guard the Department of Mysteries. And he didn`t need the cloak, because he was under the Fidelius Charm.

Please share your thoughts and theories.

[HP_hedgehog]

I don't know... it was most certainly not for Dumbledore. Maybe James gave it away because he expected to die (Voldemort was after them after all) but that's not really crucial, is it? Hm...

And those things aren't really that valuable, right? James was really rich (he inherited money and didn't need a well-payed profession) and even Moody had two of them...

[hpalltheway]

I'm now thinking of the possibility that James knew he was going to die. I know it's not a new theory, but I'm not usually one to theorise (sp?). How he knew, I have no idea, maybe Wormtail told him that he had told Voldemort? I think I'll leave the theorys to the people who actually can think outside the box! (unlike me )

[silver ink pot]

In Book One, Dumbledore says about the cloak:

"Your father happened to leave it in my possession, and I thought you might like it. . . "

PS/SS, Chapter 17

Nowhere does it say that James left it on purpose - maybe he left it behind, and the reason it is "crucial" is that Lily and Harry could have hidden under it?

That's the first thing that came to mind.

Maybe James didn't mean to leave the cloak behind, and it was a fatal mistake?

[Annett]

I'm now thinking of the possibility that James knew he was going to die. I know it's not a new theory, but I'm not usually one to theorise (sp?). How he knew, I have no idea, maybe Wormtail told him that he had told Voldemort? I think I'll leave the theorys to the people who actually can think outside the box! (unlike me )

I don`t believe this, because if James had time to give Dumbledore the cloak, he had also time to toldl him that Wormtail told Voldemort the secret. Then Dumbledore have to know that Peter was the secret keeper, and that he only find out in PoA.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by hpalltheway

I'm now thinking of the possibility that James knew he was going to die. I know it's not a new theory, but I'm not usually one to theorise (sp?). How he knew, I have no idea, maybe Wormtail told him that he had told Voldemort? I think I'll leave the theorys to the people who actually can think outside the box! (unlike me )

Well, James would have known that his death was highly probable. Voldemort had chosen Harry and would kill anyone who got in his way. He knew what he would do if Voldemort did find them - he would fight to the death to protect his son. I can see him giving Dumbledore the cloak to pass on to Harry if anything happened to him.

I don't think he knew about Pettigrew - he would not have made him Secret Keeper in that event.

But this is interesting, we finally have something new to speculate about!

[Annett]

Silver ink pot, I can see, what you mean. Harry had forgotten the mirror Sirius gave him as he need it, and many have said they are alike. Therefore I can imagine, that James did the same with the cloak.

[Sequensia]

I've always thought that James gave the cloak to the Order of the Phoenix, so that they could use it. We know that they use them, and have more than one. It seems like the thing James would do - give up a family posession (?) for the Good Guys to use.

But since Jo said it was significant and crucial, I don't know.. There seems to be more to it. No idea what, unfortunately. Oh well. We'll find out in book 7 (if not before). Tehehe.

[magali]

Yes though I am not sure how the the cloak could have helped Harry and Lily ?
Dumbledore for example can see through it, and Snape definitly ''feels'' as if someone is around, so my guess is that Vorldemort would have find them anyway.
Maybe James left the cloak behind after an Order meeting or something, to pass to someone who would have some use of it (I am thinking Sirius, who was to hide also as pretended Secret Keeper)... Yet I don't think James would have left this in order to give to Harry if something happened to him : wouldn't he leave something much more important (you know at least a writen not attached)?

When I first read about the uptade, I immediatly though that the cloak was somehow retrieve to whoever was at Godgric Hollow on Halloween (thus Hagrid, or the other unknown person if s/he's from the Order)... but SIP, you shot that one down with your quote! Fine, good job.

[guad]

Well, there are A LOT of possibilities, but as it is supposed to be crucial, that makes it more complicated.

Simple one: James was in the order and had lended the cloak to some other member, who gave it back to Dumbledore. (Moody lends his cloak to Mundugus). Unlikely, because as James was in danger, Dumbledore would prefer that he did not give away his cloak. And it would not be crucial.

Unless: this member was Peter Pettigrew. James lend Peter his cloak, to ensure that he had some extra security, being secret keeper and talentless, Peter gave it back to Dumbledore, saying that ...ermm, I don't have a good answer here. :S


Or: Dumbledore went later to GH and picked up the cloak. Unlikely because not crucial.

Let's see, James had a cloak, and he was in the order. It is likely that Dumbledore was checking on James every now and then to see if their family was ok. Why would James give Dumbledore the cloak?

Maybe Dumbledore got it from somebody else, who had the cloak. Again, I believe Peter to be the most likely one to have the cloak.

[lupislune]

Originally Posted by silver ink pot

In Book One, Dumbledore says about the cloak:

"Your father happened to leave it in my possession, and I thought you might like it. . . "

PS/SS, Chapter 17

Nowhere does it say that James left it on purpose - maybe he left it behind, and the reason it is "crucial" is that Lily and Harry could have hidden under it?

That's the first thing that came to mind.

Maybe James didn't mean to leave the cloak behind, and it was a fatal mistake?

I agree that this seems to be the most logical explination, but if this were the case why would JKR have emphasied it on her site.

I also like Meesha's explination of James leaving it to protect Harry if something happened. I would wonder, though, why James wouldn't try to use it himself. Even though invisibility cloaks are rare, I don't see why Voldemort would take it. He doesn't seem to need invisibility cloaks to carry out his plans. It makes me wonder if there is something more to the invisibility cloak than meets the eye, or James put something in it that Harry hasn't found.

[harry_newtter]

Maybe it has to do with pride....James could have that stubborn pride that Harry exudes so much. He knows that LV is coming after him and his family, and instead of using the cloak to possibly hide or get away unseen, he decides to leave it with DD to give to Harry just in case he might die in his stand against the Dark Lord.

[LilySkywalker]

I don't think we have heard the whole story of what happened right before the Potters death. I also wonder if the way Dumbledore got the cloak isn't possibly part of the full story and maybe if Harry learns more about the cloak it will help the full story come out.

[Schlubalybub]

I think maybe the Order were using it at the time...Like Sturgis Podmore using Moody's when he was caught and placed in Azkaban. That's the only way I can think of it being in Dumbledore's possession. But Dumbledore must have his own Invisivility cloak or another way of making himself invisible, because he was invisible when Harry was looking in the Mirror of Erised in the first book. Therefore, it couldn't have been Dumbledore who was personally using it. It wouldn't have fitted Hagrid, so its not like he would have been using it either. So therefore I believe that another member of the Order was using it at the time.

My bet is on Peter Pettigrew, perhaps Sirius picked it up when he visited Peter in hiding once? And gave it to Dumbledore, stating that Peter didn't need it to hide, because Sirius knew that Peter could turn into a rat, but didn't let that slip to Dumbledore? I'm just theorising here tho, I'm not comitting myself to anything.

Another person who could have had it was Aberforth Dumbledore. He could have given it to his brother before the Potters died

Originally Posted by guad

Well, there are A LOT of possibilities, but as it is supposed to be crucial, that makes it more complicated.

Simple one: James was in the order and had lended the cloak to some other member, who gave it back to Dumbledore. (Moody lends his cloak to Mundugus). Unlikely, because as James was in danger, Dumbledore would prefer that he did not give away his cloak. And it would not be crucial.

Unless: this member was Peter Pettigrew. James lend Peter his cloak, to ensure that he had some extra security, being secret keeper and talentless, Peter gave it back to Dumbledore, saying that ...ermm, I don't have a good answer here. :S


Or: Dumbledore went later to GH and picked up the cloak. Unlikely because not crucial.

Let's see, James had a cloak, and he was in the order. It is likely that Dumbledore was checking on James every now and then to see if their family was ok. Why would James give Dumbledore the cloak?

Maybe Dumbledore got it from somebody else, who had the cloak. Again, I believe Peter to be the most likely one to have the cloak.

Sorry, this wasn't up when I started my post. I wasn't copyign you, I just had the same idea

[Annett]

I know what is crucial: if James left the cloak for Peter! But how does the cloak came to Dumbledore?

edit: So many with the same idea at the same time have to be right, haven`t?

[harry_newtter]

i just had a thought on this......the only person that knew the prophecy was DD...maybe he took the cloak to guard Neville since he was the only other child who could have been in the prophecy, while James and Lily decided to try and hold their ground? iunno just a thought lol

[Tane]

I posted this on the JKR Official site and here is a thread I can post it on so here goes.

Snape might have told Dumbledore and James together about him telling Voldemort the partial prophecy he over heard and that he did not realise that they would go for Jame's own son. It could be why Dumbledore said to Harry that he did not understand the remorse Snape went through when they both died. Snape tells Dumbledore and James about Voldemort and where he is about to go and James turns to Dumbledore and gives him his cloak and heads off to Godric Hollows.

Would James forgive Snape under such a situation or reject any sorry or appologies before going to fight Voldemort?
Would Dumbledore feel sorry for Snape under such a situation after James has left with out accepting Snape's cries of sorrow?

All speculative but possible.

[Schlubalybub]

I already answered this idea...Peter gave the cloak to Sirius, who gave it to Dumbledore, saying that he had found it, not knowing where the Potters are, not being their secret Keeper, so Sirius gave the cloak to Dumbledore instead?

Just a guess

[Liselle]

Ok we know that DUmbledore didn't need the cloak to become invisible. SO Dumbledore himself wasn't using the cloak....unless he had the invisiblity cloak draped over something to hide it (but he could use a disillusionment charm for that). I think that Dumbledore was holding the cloak for someone else....or that someone else was using it.

The question being who. Of course Snape is a logical person to suspect. James and Snape HATED one another so if Snape for some reason needed the cloak, well James would hardly give it to him would he. Dumbledore would have been a go between. Another possibility is Hagrid. Maybe Hagrid used the cloak when going to search Godric Hollow.

Sad fact, it could be just about anyone!

[Mpol]

I think it's much more than just 'James gives it to Dumbledore becuase he knoew he was going to die...' because in PoA we learn the Potters KNEW Voldemort was after them.

I just don't have a clue as to what it is...