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Old February 16th, 2007, 1:44 am
more2live4  Female.gif more2live4 is offline
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This is to discuss Unforgivable by Logan Anbinder.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 2:49 am
cherbear  Female.gif cherbear is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Very good idea! How about this - have Draco perform the Imperius curse. You still have the angst-ridden plot twist. Then, the next generation will be working together as a whole to defeat the evil of the previous one. :>)

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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:14 am
hilere  Female.gif hilere is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I didn't like this editorial at all... until it got to the Snape bit! However, I do not believe that this will happen. It's certainly a possibilty but I think there's more canon evidence to suggest that Harry won't be able to kill Voldemort using the AK. Think back to the end of HBP "No Unforgivables for you Potter." (I think that was a hugely foreshadowing chapter.) Or else that Harry won't kill Voldemort at all but will have to "vanquish" him some other way as you noted. I personally think Harry will have to kill Voldy but by using some other means than Avada Kadavra. Still, a well thought out theory and even with a nice plot twist!

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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:22 am
musicalfan06  Female.gif musicalfan06 is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I really really liked it. I'm not sure it could happen, but I think it was very well thought out and definetley had good canon to support it. The little pieces of evidence it used, would be things Jo would use to forshadow bc they weren't noticeable. Like i said, i dont know if it would happen, but definetly a good idea!!!

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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:24 am
sondra sondra is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Interesting ideas but I don't think that it will happen your way. I believe after Harry detroys the Horcruxs his blood in Voldemort will come into play. That it will act like a poison in Voldemort

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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:30 am
SomeGuyFawkes SomeGuyFawkes is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

No way.

For Harry to be under the Imperious curse would be cheating. JKR does not cheat in such a way.

As others have pointed out, it is doubtful that Harry would or could AK Voldemort.

He'll find a different way to "destroy" Voldy.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:40 am
hermionefan01  Female.gif hermionefan01 is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I really like the possibilities you've brought forward with this idea, but I still don't like the idea of Harry using the killing curse. I also find it highly, highly improbable that Harry will allow Snape to assume complete control of his mind and body. But still, nifty ideas.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 4:00 am
Chas  Male.gif Chas is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Thanks, Logan, for an interesting editorial. Like all the "wonderful editorials," it sets one thinking. For example, here is an interesting thought.
Originally Posted by hilere View Post
... Or else that Harry won't kill Voldemort at all but will have to "vanquish" him some other way as you noted. I personally think Harry will have to kill Voldy but by using some other means than Avada Kadavra...
The prophecy says "either must die at the hand of the other." Harry has unusually powerful hands against Voldemort, as shown in PS/SS when Harry struggled with QuirrellMort (US paper edition, p. 295). So, I think it will be Harry's hands that vanquish Voldemort, and not any particular curse.

Keep up the good work.


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Old February 16th, 2007, 6:18 am
sfgilgalad  Undisclosed.gif sfgilgalad is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

why doesnt he create a portkey with the sword, which would bring Voldemort into Hogwarts'room in Gringotts? this would be great But I suppose you can't apparate in Gringotts.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 7:42 am
hilere  Female.gif hilere is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Originally posted by sfgilgalad
why doesnt he create a portkey with the sword, which would bring Voldemort into Hogwarts'room in Gringotts? this would be great But I suppose you can't apparate in Gringotts.
What the heck?


Also I don't think it's fair to call someone's theory stupid. You can not like it but to call it stupid is going a bit far.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 8:13 am
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Re: Unforgivable

Although this editorial is interesting, I cannot give it any credibility. I do not think Harry would allow anybody to take control of his mind under any circumstance. There are many ways magic could be used to kill without using Avada Kedavra, even as simple a spell as Accio could work. Why not summon a huge rock and fly it into Voldemort's head? (Just kidding).

Originally Posted by sfgilgalad View Post
why doesnt he create a portkey with the sword, which would bring Voldemort into Hogwarts'room in Gringotts? this would be great But I suppose you can't apparate in Gringotts.
You have me completely confused here. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 10:50 am
Youdan Youdan is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Wasn't AK explained in the killing of the Riddles they looked like they were frighten to death, the fear factor. Where the patronus needs happy, feel good thoughts, That Harry is so full of, Could Harry's patronus or an other love based spell do more damage to Voldermort then a fear based spell?

Last edited by Youdan; February 16th, 2007 at 11:02 am.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 1:48 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I wonder if an AK done under Imperius would actually work. It seems to me the Imperiused person wouldn't REALLY be feeling the desire to cause pain that Bella says is necessary; it's actually the Imperius Caster's desire.

It's still a good idea and it might turn out that way.

But I keep thinking of all the times we've heard Dumbledore say that there are worse things than death; he said it to Voldemort in the MoM in OotP. V, of course, wasn't buying it. But there are things worse than death, and I think it might be fitting if Voldemort's punishment was to experience one or more of them. Losing his magical powers permanently would be a great one.

WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 2:39 pm
Reu  Male.gif Reu is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

good editorial fairplay, you raise a lot of good points, just thinking about what you say, i had wondered if harry would some point have to put himself in snapes hands at in order to defeat voldemort, so thats a really interesting scenario, but i cant see harry willingly placing himself in a situation where snape would have complete control of him, he was very weary of having occlumens with snape, a similar scenario which he was totally at the mercy of snape with his memories and psychological defence. so im not sure about it's plausibility, but i like the idea though, it would need a lot of justification on snapes part to persuade harry if this is the path JKR has gone for! but im not too sure though!

oh yes, just to add, i also like the rock and the veil one! haha cracked me up! i would love it if that happened!

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Last edited by Reu; February 16th, 2007 at 2:46 pm.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:09 pm
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8m57w6  Female.gif 8m57w6 is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I thought this editorial had a very interesting idea. However what I thought of as I read it, that wasn't mentioned, was what about Wormtail? He owes a life debt to Harry, and if he were to cast the imperious, it would make it so that Harry would live. But with this, like Snape, I'm not sure how willing Harry would be to have him under the control of Voldemort's main person.

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Old February 16th, 2007, 3:16 pm
SoccerDM  Undisclosed.gif SoccerDM is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I don't agree with this editorial at all. I haven't read any of the other posts, but here is my reasoning for why this theory blows.

1. Harry Shows resistance to the Imperious Curse. Yes, it took him a few times to completly fight against it in Moody's class. However, the first time it was cast upon him, without Truly Trying to repell it, he unconciously fought it. This inate ability prevents him from just saying, "yeah, ok. Go ahead and cast it upon me.". This doesn't make any sense. He would subconsiously fight the spell regardless.

2. If Harry can witness the Murder of the Closest person to him, and STILL not have the anger to cast an Unforgivable...Harry has little chance of accomplishing this task.

3. As Snape is escaping Hogwarts in HBP, Harry tries to use an Unforgivable Curse on him. Snape deflects it easily and even tells Harry something along the lines of, "No Unforgivable curses for you Potter." or something like that. (Sorry, Don't have the book with me) During the entire Snape escaping Speech, he was obviously giving Harry Clues. "Snape told him how he must learn to close his mind and not wear his emotions on his sleeve or he'll never be able to fight well. This enitre section of the book is further evidence that Harry and Unforgivable Curses are NOT EFFECTIVE.

4. If Harry becomes a Murderer in "Cold Blood", which is what Avada Kedavera is., then it goes against the literary significance given to Harry. JKR hasn't made Harry an evil character. It would contradict the entire series to Have Harry Sink to Voldemorts Level.

I'm not saying that Harry may not be responsible for some Deaths in the Final book, but AK is outta the question. And the Imperious Curse Idea is, well, less then convincing when compared to the facts of the book.

Last edited by SoccerDM; February 16th, 2007 at 6:23 pm.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 4:05 pm
Ticci  Female.gif Ticci is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

I love the mugglenet editorials; they always give me something new to think about or confirm that others are thinking about something I've thought of. My expectations of book 7 is that it will reveal Harry's powers that have been subtly hinted at throughout the first six books. Jo has very carefully surrounded Harry's ease in performing magic (sometimes very advanced magic for his age) with other distractions, events and activities. Most recently, apparating in book 7. He apparated only once successfully in class, it was downplayed by Jo with other events and Harrys dislike for the sensation of it, yet he performed apparition perfectly when the circumstances required him to do so - saving Dumbledore. I expect that once he's an adult wizard by turning 17, his full powers will be realized and serve him well. Thank you for the editorial!

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Old February 16th, 2007, 4:06 pm
king king is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Harry doesn't need to use the Avada Kedavra curse to kill Voldemort. He must destroy all of the horcruxes and then he can kill Voldemort in any number of ways, and he won't have to rely on Snape or Draco for help. The most obvious way for Harry to kill Voldemort is to use the Sectumsempre spell to chop off Voldemort's head. Or he could use an axe. (Harry doesn't even have to cut every last neck tendon to kill Voldemort, just ask Nearly Headless Nick.) Harry doesn't have to kill in rage or for revenge either, he can kill in self defense or to save the life of another or to save a community from war. All Harry has to do is overcome Voldemort's magical defenses. That would be no easy task, but I'll bet there are:

"Fifty Ways to Kill Old Voldy."

You can stab him in the back, Jack.
Put poison in his tea, Lee.
Shove him under the Knight Bus, Gus.

You get the idea?

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Old February 16th, 2007, 4:49 pm
HP_hedgehog  Male.gif HP_hedgehog is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

Well, Harry can fully resist the Imperius Curse, remember? And I don't think the child who tried to kill his grandparents tried the Avada Kedavra... I think he fetched a knife from the kitchen drawer or something. But that's just my opinion It does weaken your evidence for the "advanced" magical possiblities while Imperiused. I do like it that there's a new theory out there thank you!

By the way, I think Harry will definitely not kill Voldemort, not with the Avada Kedavra. If the "No Unforgivables for you Potter" isn't enough, will he tear his soul? He also can't fight Voldemort with a wand, or there'll be a Priori Incantatem, which would be great. But Harry already won that confrontation in his 4th year, so it would be anti-climactic. He's grown. And I think killing is just beneath him. I'm more inclined to believe that Harry will somehow make a Dementor fall in love with Voldemort... or that Harry will lock him in that Love room in the Department of Mystification or something...

It is also weird how Harry tries to Crucio all of the major "I just killed one of your adult protectors" Death Eaters... he did it with Bellatrix with Sirius... with Snape with Dumbledore... I wonder if he'll do it with Malfoy when Hagrid's dead (which is speculation from my part. It's just... well, read Spinners End #7 and you will see why I believe Hagrid will die. And all of Harry's major protectors have died at the hand of Voldemort's closest followers, those who had the msot to do with the victim. Bellatrix was Sirius's cousin, Dumbledore was Snape's employer and ... Malfoy and Hagrid also have some sort of history together. What other major Death Eaters are out there? I connect Greyback with Lupin and Bill... so the only one left is Lucius, I believe. Ok, I'm getting carried away)

What I was previously trying to illustrate is that I think there are more reasons to believe that Harry won't kill Voldemort (and if you believe he will really kill him, not with the Avada Kedavra). There are so much other ways once his Horcruxes are gone. It would be very humiliating for Voldemort if he got driven over by a Mini Cooper...

I'm done ranting


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Last edited by HP_hedgehog; February 17th, 2007 at 4:59 pm.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 6:52 pm
mjlovegood mjlovegood is offline
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Re: Unforgivable

You had a very interesting editorial. You are most probably right in this one thing: Harry will not be able to use the Avada Kedavra. I don't think he will win Voldemort by just being stronger and more skillful wizard. There are many passages in the books that support this, but they have been discussed in previous responses well enough, so I won't repeat it.

Your idea,that Harry would kill Voldemort is a very clever one...and that's precisely why I don't think it would happen that way. Harry will not win Voldemort by shere cleverness. That would be the Slytherin way to do itn though not necessarily a bad way. Even a Ravenclaw could try to win by inteligence, knowledge and a clever strategy. Harry, like we all know, is a Gryffindoor so he will have to win by doing something very brave. Something like his mother did.
Personally I don't believe Harry will die, but I do believe he'll have to put his life on the line and he most probably will be in a great perill of death for a while. I believe this will happen when he tries to save or defend someone else.
According to Dumbledore Harry's greatest strenght is his ability to love. The Apostle John says in the Bible: " No one has greater love than he who sacrifices his life for his friends." Thisis the quality Harry has and this will finally put an end to Voldemort, the one way or the other. I'm allmost sure of this.
I did appriciate your editorial all the same. You really picked up an important point an made a good beginning for an interesting chain.

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