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Who but McGonagall?



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  #1  
Old March 4th, 2007, 11:37 pm
more2live4  Female.gif more2live4 is offline
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Who but McGonagall?

This is to discuss Who but McGonagall? by Asher Dostoevsky.



Last edited by more2live4; March 6th, 2007 at 9:10 pm.
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  #2  
Old March 5th, 2007, 12:08 am
fluffy77  Male.gif fluffy77 is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

McGonagall is a higgly puff in the swamp. She is there to throw you off the scent of what is really happening. She most likely will be stepping up in Deathly Hallows and being less nuetral now that she is the leader. Before she was second in command. Somethings a commander on the ship must be neutral being that they are not in control and their direct actions will greatly reflect against thier captain. If she was to mess up would Dumbledore fall on his sword or go down with the sinking ship? Dont know... but what I do know is that what Dumbledore said for himself and making mistakes goes the same for McGonagall but then again she is a women and is a little smarter anyways...


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  #3  
Old March 5th, 2007, 12:14 am
Dogbert  Undisclosed.gif Dogbert is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

This is an interesting essay. I have a hard time believing that McGonagall would be a spy for Voldy, but its certainly possible. Spies don't have to be major characters like Snape. Snape certainly is one of the most interesting characters in the book.

It is rather odd that Dumbledore asks Harry to keep it secret that he is going after horcruxes though, so there certainly is a possibility of a spy at Hogwarts. Dumbledore definitely keeped information privately and shares it only on a need to know basis.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 12:50 am
silver_phoenix  Female.gif silver_phoenix is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Very interesting. I find it difficult to believe that McGonagall would side with Voldemort, but this does point out a few intereseting things. Like eveything about the first chapter of book 1. I never noticed anything odd about it, even though I just reread book 1. But it does raise a lot of questions.


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  #5  
Old March 5th, 2007, 1:19 am
Emmasj  Female.gif Emmasj is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

-sigh- I remember an editorial posted on Mugglenet once, about how Dumbledore was prejudice. The fact is, you can make an argument out of anything. Ever listen to those crack-pot theories on MuggleCast? Yeah. This editorial gives me that kind of feel.

Anything's possible. But this won't happen.

Yeah, that's right, I said it.

Oh, and . . .

Quote:
So what was McGonagall doing all day – the most important day in Wizarding history – sitting on a stone wall?
She wanted answers. She's an intelligent, precise woman, and she just wanted answers from someone she trusted, since Voldemort's demise was such a huge thing.

Quote:
How did she know that Dumbledore was going to be at Privet Drive – or did she even know? And if she didn’t know, why was she there?
Hagrid told her? It says that in the book.

Quote:
Why is she so angry – angry – at the celebrations taking place? Why does Jo attach adjectives to her like “coldly”, “piercing”, “sharply”, and “angrily” all in the same two pages as they are discussing – not the death of Lily and James – but the demise of Voldemort?
They may have been discussing the demise of Voldemort, but no one can just turn emotions on and off. It would be unrealistic for McGonagall to be happy in this conversation, because she just learned for sure about James and Lily's deaths. Learning something like that hurts. She could have been snapping at people for the next few days, even if they said something like Happy Birthday. Something like that can kill any mood. She was grieving. There's nothing evil about that.

Quote:
Why does she become almost out of control at the idea of Harry living with the Dursleys?
I would have too, if the child of some of my friends was being sent to live with people like that!

Also, the characters have such a hard time trusting Snape because he isn't a normal spy. He's a double spy. And with a double spy, only the spy can know for sure which side (s)he is on.


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Last edited by Emmasj; March 5th, 2007 at 1:32 am.
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  #6  
Old March 5th, 2007, 2:00 am
bribe
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

This editorial promotes the same theory, supported by much the same evidence, as a similar editorial published by Mugglenet about a year ago. This editorial was argued against by almost everyone who commented on it, including myself. I am afraid I will need to take the same stance on this one too.

At no stage in any of the books to date has McGonagall been anything other than a loyal supporter of Dumbledore. As of now McGonagall is, presumably, Head of Hogwarts and, again presumably, Head of the Order of the Phoenix. It is, therefore, only natural that she would want to know what Dumbledore has been doing during his long absences from Hogwarts. She probably knew Harry had accompanied Dumbledore on his most recent excursion and it is only natural she would ask Harry what it was about.

It seems to me Dumbledore used each of his supporters to the best advantage and as such McGonagall would have been used in an administrative role rather than a tactical role. Any good leader would only divulge information on a need to know basis and would expect his followers to use the same discretion - something Harry has been shown to do on a number of occasions eg Neville's parents, horcruxes etc.

In closing, I can see no reason in the evidence you present in this editorial to change my opinion that McGonagall is a trustworthy and loyal member of the Order of the Phoenix who was simply reacting out of stress when she asked Harry what he and Dumbledore had been doing. Although this editorial is interesting and well researched I am unable to support it.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 2:54 am
Marie0903  Female.gif Marie0903 is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bribe View Post
This editorial promotes the same theory, supported by much the same evidence, as a similar editorial published by Mugglenet about a year ago. This editorial was argued against by almost everyone who commented on it, including myself. I am afraid I will need to take the same stance on this one too.

At no stage in any of the books to date has McGonagall been anything other than a loyal supporter of Dumbledore. As of now McGonagall is, presumably, Head of Hogwarts and, again presumably, Head of the Order of the Phoenix. It is, therefore, only natural that she would want to know what Dumbledore has been doing during his long absences from Hogwarts. She probably knew Harry had accompanied Dumbledore on his most recent excursion and it is only natural she would ask Harry what it was about.

It seems to me Dumbledore used each of his supporters to the best advantage and as such McGonagall would have been used in an administrative role rather than a tactical role. Any good leader would only divulge information on a need to know basis and would expect his followers to use the same discretion - something Harry has been shown to do on a number of occasions eg Neville's parents, horcruxes etc.

In closing, I can see no reason in the evidence you present in this editorial to change my opinion that McGonagall is a trustworthy and loyal member of the Order of the Phoenix who was simply reacting out of stress when she asked Harry what he and Dumbledore had been doing. Although this editorial is interesting and well researched I am unable to support it.
My thoughts exactly!

The arguments used against McGonagall can be skewed to represent many characters, even Harry.

Dumbledore only divulged facts to Harry gradually over the years. I'm sure Dumbledore died before he could fill Harry in about everything he needs to know to defeat Voldemort.

Harry, at various times in the book had angry or even hateful thoughts towards Dumbledore. People's reactions aren't always picture perfect.

I don't believe these things constitute disloyalty. I don't think that there is any reason to doubt Prof. McGonagall.


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  #8  
Old March 5th, 2007, 2:54 am
DondaLonda  Female.gif DondaLonda is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Mmmmm, interesting theory. I can't say I agree but I'll have to keep an eye out. It would be a very great twist if it were true. However, I don't think this essay 'slays the dragon', so to speak. Meaning, it doesn't give the other side and then the information to contradict it so to prove its underlying message. There are many instances, I seem to remember, of McGonagall being loyal to Dumbledore. But I do think it interesting that JKR wrote in that Harry wouldn't tell McGonagall about the Horcruxes. She was Dumbledore's 2IC after all and Harry trusted her. Why then would JK have Harry not tell her? I always thought that was strange. But that can be explained as that Harry wasn't telling anyone and he was kind of growing up there and taking on a new role without Dumbledore now. Dunno


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  #9  
Old March 5th, 2007, 3:39 am
KZan  Female.gif KZan is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

I lean towards agreeing with this one. I think it is significant that McGonagall has never commented on the fact that she was Riddle's contemporary at Hogwarts. That is just not something you forget to mention.......And all her denial about the Chamber of Secrets -she was at the school the last time it was opened!

Lets not forget Voldy's reference to his most faithful servant at Hogwarts. Crouch was too easy and V didn't trust Snape at that point. There is a spy at Hogwarts and it is not Snape.

And man did she move herself into Dumbledore's office fast! She also interrupts the trancelike state that everyone was in during the Pheonix Lament chapter of HBP. I felt that was strange that her entrance was mentioned synonomously with that moment.

Lets not forget how precise she was about the number of years and months she has been teaching at Hogwarts when questioned by Umbridge. Seems like something we are supposed to take note of...or not.


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  #10  
Old March 5th, 2007, 3:42 am
Emmasj  Female.gif Emmasj is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KZan View Post
I lean towards agreeing with this one. I think it is significant that McGonagall has never commented on the fact that she was Riddle's contemporary at Hogwarts. That is just not something you forget to mention.......
It might be something she just doesn't want to think about. After all, we didn't know Sirius was related to Bella until we saw it on the family tree. He didn't mention it. So why would it matter that McG gets a little tight-lipped about going to school with Tom Riddle?


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Old March 5th, 2007, 3:50 am
Mischief_Maker  Female.gif Mischief_Maker is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Interesting theory...but what's to say it's McGonagall? Let's just say you are correct. Couldn't it be Professor Sprout or Flitwick? We don't know how long they have been working at Hogwarts.

Let's not forget that if McGonagall is the head of house for Gryffindor then she was probably sorted INTO Gryffindor. That means that she and the Slytherins of her day probably didn't get along since it seems to me that the animosity between Gryffindor and Slytherin has existed ever since the original Gryffindor and Slytherin had their fight and Slytherin split. I doubt very seriously that Voldy would have had anything to do with a Gryffindor, especially a smart female. I think he's not only a pure-blood fanatic but a sexist too. That seems pretty evident since only one known death eater is a female.

Sorry, great editorial, well thought out, but I'm just not buying it. I may eat my words in July, but I just can't believe this of my favorite teacher.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 4:09 am
sfgilgalad  Undisclosed.gif sfgilgalad is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Well, there is a part i disagree with : I never was fond of her. She's always an obstacle to Harry. She's useless, and I never understood why we never learn anything about her if she was going to be important. But my impression is that she actually never going to be important. I never thought it like a red herring.
But it is because I believe the author didn't know how far the story would leave her.
I've been thinking of something though. How did quirell pass her test in PS?


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Old March 5th, 2007, 4:50 am
Emmasj  Female.gif Emmasj is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mischief_Maker View Post
I doubt very seriously that Voldy would have had anything to do with a Gryffindor, especially a smart female.
Perhaps not in school, but you shouldn't forget that he didn't want to kill Lily.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 5:01 am
pottersleuth200  Undisclosed.gif pottersleuth200 is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

A very good editorial, and I agree that Jo certainly has at least one BIG surprise coming in the last book. Having McGonagall turn out to be a spy would disappoint me, but I would feel a little better about something else that I've been concerned about--the fact that there are no strong central women characters in the series except McGonagall, and she has been marginalized. I was extremely sorry to see that Harry did not entrust her with the knowledge that he and Dumbledore had been out hunting Horcruxes, because, as the new headmaster of Hogwarts, she will certainly need to know. I believed that the very action of not telling put her entirely outside of the main story for the rest of the series, but making her a spy would add her back in. Im not sure that's the way Jo is going, but its a good theory, so thanks for writing it.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 5:04 am
Salamnder2002  Undisclosed.gif Salamnder2002 is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?


Bravo!

What an excellent editorial is suppose to be!

If you are right feel free to do the dance of joy while singing naa naa na naa naa for at least two days!

After reading this I wonder how you could wrong.


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  #16  
Old March 5th, 2007, 5:05 am
Asher Lewis D  Female.gif Asher Lewis D is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

"This editorial promotes the same theory, supported by much the same evidence, as a similar editorial published by Mugglenet about a year ago. This editorial was argued against by almost everyone who commented on it, including myself. I am afraid I will need to take the same stance on this one too."

Hey, guys - yup, that was mine, as well as this one. :-) I did write this same editorial last year, and took it down because I wanted to sit on it a bit more, but now that I take it less seriously I decided to throw caution to the wind and spit it out there. Honestly, I still believe it, just from an English major point of view, but there are some holes in it and of course, like any theory, it's just a theory. And it was fun to play around with.

I just can't see JK Rowling throwing away such a supposedly major character as McGonagall on... a background role, you know? Whether she's a spy or not, I definitely see her playing a MUCH bigger part in the seventh book. Although personally, I do hope she's the spy... woo-hoo!


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Last edited by Asher Lewis D; March 5th, 2007 at 5:12 am.
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Old March 5th, 2007, 5:12 am
GilleysPheoni  Female.gif GilleysPheoni is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

i really liked the editorial, it almost had me convinced that mcgonagall was not to be trusted. but i would like to point out that there already was a spy for you-know-who that has been exposed other than snape....and thats wormtail. I don't think JKR would create a character for harry and the reader to trust so much and then turn them into a spy. if mcgonagall is a spy, then who is left in authority for harry to trust? the morals of the series have always been very positive, why ruin that with a 'trust no one' negative moral. harry will never trust snape, no matter where snapes loyalties actually lie. with dumbledore gone who is left at hogwarts for harry to trust? no one other than mcgonagall has earned harrys trust.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 5:19 am
Emmasj  Female.gif Emmasj is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilleysPheoni View Post
i really liked the editorial, it almost had me convinced that mcgonagall was not to be trusted. but i would like to point out that there already was a spy for you-know-who that has been exposed other than snape....and thats wormtail. I don't think JKR would create a character for harry and the reader to trust so much and then turn them into a spy. if mcgonagall is a spy, then who is left in authority for harry to trust? the morals of the series have always been very positive, why ruin that with a 'trust no one' negative moral. harry will never trust snape, no matter where snapes loyalties actually lie. with dumbledore gone who is left at hogwarts for harry to trust? no one other than mcgonagall has earned harrys trust.
Well, he trusts the other teachers, like Flitwich. But you're very right - Harry should be able to trust. You worded that very well.


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Old March 5th, 2007, 5:29 am
Ticci  Female.gif Ticci is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

When I first started reading your editorial, I thought that this was a real stretch of the imagination. As I read further, I remembered having questions of my own upon numerous rereads of the series.

Reading the first book after reading the rest, much of the dialogue between Dumbledore and McGonagal seems to be odd to me. As you point out in your editorial, she arrives early at the Dursley's and stays all day. When she changes from cat to self and Dumbledore says he thought it was her - he should know what she transforms into. She seems to be asking a lot of questions of him, such as if it's true the Potter's were murdered. I dismissed all these irregularities as it being the first book of the series and Jo had to introduce the characters to us.

I thought it curious that Dumbledore trusted Harry to tell Ron and Hermoine and nobody else about the Horcruxes. I assumed it was for McGonagal's protection though.

At the end when McGonagal asks Harry where he and Dumbledore went, I was not shocked at her questioning. After all, Dumbledore was dead, she'd known him most of her adult life, and would be curious about where he would take Harry. She's also a very strict and controlling person.

What convinces me she's not a spy for Volde though is the accounting of the Death Eaters in GOF. They've all been accounted for.

Good job though and thanks for the editorial!



Last edited by Ticci; March 5th, 2007 at 5:32 am.
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  #20  
Old March 5th, 2007, 5:45 am
wgh  Undisclosed.gif wgh is offline
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Re: Who but McGonagall?

Excellent editorial.... my only regret in reading it is that you may have just spoiled DH's biggest surprise!


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