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Kreacher's Hiding Place



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  #1  
Old March 24th, 2007, 9:14 pm
more2live4  Female.gif more2live4 is offline
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Kreacher's Hiding Place

This is to discuss Kreacher's Hiding Place by Jason Drake.


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  #2  
Old March 24th, 2007, 10:34 pm
chey_umbridge  Female.gif chey_umbridge is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

great editorial! i loved your interpretations of the text. although some seem a little far-fetched, they were no doubt an interesting read. kudos!


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  #3  
Old March 24th, 2007, 11:23 pm
Mark4291 Mark4291 is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Me thinks you could be close with the one way mirror. I dont buy into the whole talking to Sirius "beyond the veil" thing; so why not have the mirror reveal, when all hope seems lost, the location of the elusive horcrux which is hidden under the floorboards with the magic mirror!
Its neat, i like neat!


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  #4  
Old March 24th, 2007, 11:28 pm
Rincewizzard  Undisclosed.gif Rincewizzard is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

This is a well written editorial, with it's points seemingly backed up with plenty of evidence. However, I do not believe any of the authors hypothesese put forth in it.
You base your theory on coincidences. The fact that JKR uses the same phrase, magpie-like, a book apart does not necessarily imply a correlation. It could just as easily imply that she likes the phrase, or that she cannot think of a better one. The same holds true for the adjective moth-eaten. She uses it to describe curtains, linens, and carpets. Sounds to me like this is a phrase she paticularly enjoys.
It could be entirely possible that Kreacher has a second hiding spot where he placed the locket. However, for this to be important we need to assume that RAB never managed to destroy it, despite that fact that he explicitely said that he did in his note.
I think that every HP fan should be required to watch the movie The Number23, because there are not many better examples of the fact that, if you want there to be a connection between two things, you can always find one if you look hard enough.


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  #5  
Old March 24th, 2007, 11:54 pm
hpalwaysn4ever  Undisclosed.gif hpalwaysn4ever is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

I found this editorial to be interesting. I really like Phineas' quote, "Stay where you are". That fit perfectly with your theory. I just don't know how Harry is going to figure out to look under the rug.


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  #6  
Old March 25th, 2007, 12:04 am
vlasiou  Female.gif vlasiou is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Assume for a second that everything in this editorial is wrong, and the only person who knows the truth as we speak, JKR, pops in and reads it. She'd be proud of the analysis her work receives I guess In her shoes, I'd be a bit scared too, to know that every little tiny comma I decided to use will be scrutinised. You can easily say that an old house will have more than one moth-eaten fabrics lying around, and what are you supposed to write instead of moth-eaten after all (in case you the writer began being paranoid and you feel like avoiding repeating any adjective for fear it will be analysed in Mugglenet)??

I have no idea if any of this stuff is plausible. However, even if she didn't plan things this way, she ought to withdraw the book and add this storyline. It is brilliant!


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  #7  
Old March 25th, 2007, 12:10 am
kluvhp  Female.gif kluvhp is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

I really like the theory about Kreacher's hiding place in Harry's room. I mean, I think the idea about Kreacher not-needing-coins-so-that-must-be-a-"fake"-hiding-spot is a bit far-fetched, but I thought the rest of the editorial was very creative and certainly plausible.


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  #8  
Old March 25th, 2007, 12:14 am
Secretsmilz13  Undisclosed.gif Secretsmilz13 is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Great Job!
I wouldn't be at all suprised if this were true!


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  #9  
Old March 25th, 2007, 12:28 am
Lorione  Female.gif Lorione is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Loved the editorial- just one minor quibble: <****e importance of Percy's letter is connected to a separate and much longer theory which I hope you're already familiar with (in brief: the letter is a coded message from the real Percy because he's been replaced by an imposter who's taken Polyjuice Potion).>>
I was convinced this was the case as well. But Jo was asked whether or not Percy was acting of his own accord in OotP, and she said that he was. I guess someone could still have been impersonating Percy, as long as the "real" Percy, wherever he was, was still acting of his own accord. But that seems a bit far-fetched. The note seemed really weird to me too. Can't help but think we'll learn something about it.


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  #10  
Old March 25th, 2007, 1:53 am
hilere  Female.gif hilere is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Um... I think you could very well be onto something with there being a hiding place in Harry's room in front of the door that has the locket. This is well backed up by the quote from Phineas. However everything else was a little too out there for me. Until I got up to the part about the the uneven bit of carpet I thought the editorial was pretty bizzarre. I think it's definitely a possibility with the whole two-way mirror thing ... but I wouldn't bet on it

...

Just had a thought ... if Phineas knew in book 5 where the real locket was, than that means he let Dumbledore believe that the locket was still in the cave. Wow that's a scary thought - Phineas would be partially responsible for DDs death. Unless he did tell DD and Dumbldore knew going in the cave was a futile expedition ... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm why would that be?



Last edited by hilere; March 25th, 2007 at 2:04 am.
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  #11  
Old March 25th, 2007, 3:12 am
Dan_Estes  Male.gif Dan_Estes is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

This theory is really interesting!

I reread that passage again on page 495 in Order of the Phoenix, and it's right there, "...tugging the trunk over a patch of particularly uneven, moth-eaten carpet right in front of the door." That's not a random description -- there is something hidden under that floorboard! I suspect the author is right that it contains the locket, but I believe he's also correct that it contains the other mirror as well.

That would explain JKR's comment about the mirror (from her website, as quoted in this editorial):

Quote:
"The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand, will help more than you think. You’ll have to read the final books to understand that!"
The author's analysis makes sense of her enigmatic response. What Mark4291 suggests is a good idea too -- what if the mirror is used to reveal the locket, and then the trio set out to figure out where the locket is hiding?

All in all, there are a lot of great ideas here. Good job!

~ Dan Estes


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  #12  
Old March 25th, 2007, 3:13 am
Gracezilla06  Female.gif Gracezilla06 is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

???


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  #13  
Old March 25th, 2007, 3:56 am
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

I like your theory. It brings up several points I had not previously considered although it does appear that you are stretching the coincidances a little too far with some of the theory.

I agree that Kreecher is most likely the one in possession of the locket and hiding it under the floor in a bedroom does seem logical. We will know for sure when Deathly Hallows is released. Overall, a good editorial.


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  #14  
Old March 25th, 2007, 4:08 am
sondra sondra is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Great Detective work. I also should point out that the Malfoy's have a secret chamber under the floor in their house , so I would think the Black's would to.


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  #15  
Old March 25th, 2007, 5:34 am
Alliria  Undisclosed.gif Alliria is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

I thought at first that this was a little far-fetched, but you did an excellent job backing up your theories. I don't know whether it's the mirror or the locket - or both - under the floorboards at the door, but it's certainly easier to believe that than to believe JKR couldn't find a phrase she liked better than magpie-like.


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  #16  
Old March 25th, 2007, 8:40 am
sfgilgalad  Undisclosed.gif sfgilgalad is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Maybe Sirius also knew about the Horcruxe, and was looking for it all along, keeping asking his grandaddy to tell him. He could have been a lot closer to his brother than he pretends (just like Dumbledore). I wondered a lot whether he liked Dumbledore or not. Dumbledore defended Snape, and didn't defend Sirius.


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  #17  
Old March 25th, 2007, 9:19 am
plainlypotter  Female.gif plainlypotter is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

What was really interesting to me was the connection between kretcher taking the mirror prior to sirius' death - that definitely fits with Jo's comment about harry's not using the mirror to talk to sirius and it's possible significance in book 7. you may very well be on to something here good job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hilere View Post
Um...

Just had a thought ... if Phineas knew in book 5 where the real locket was, than that means he let Dumbledore believe that the locket was still in the cave. Wow that's a scary thought - Phineas would be partially responsible for DDs death. Unless he did tell DD and Dumbldore knew going in the cave was a futile expedition ... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm why would that be?
I think you have missed the main point here - first Phineas didn't necessarily see the "house cleaning" that harry and sirius and the weasleys were doing since I don't think his portrait was in the drawing room and even if he happened to be in that room at that moment there is no reason for him to know that there was a connection between the locket that Kretcher removes (we are making that assumption here ) from the trash and the locket that mierope riddle wears in the pensive. Unlike the memory of bertha jorkins the locket memory's action happens inside the pensive therefore the locket is not seen by the portraits. And even if DD has discussed the trophies that V has collected with the portraits, it is not until HBP do we know the locket's significance. In addition even if Phineas has made the connection there was no reason to think that the horcrux in the cave was the locket- it could just as easily been hufflepuff's cup or the unknown horcrux of ravenclaw or griffendore so at best assuming that Phineas knew of the hiding place and knew that a horcrux was there at worst he prevented DD from destroying one horcrux but there was no reason to think that a different horcrux was not in the cave.


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Last edited by plainlypotter; March 25th, 2007 at 9:23 am. Reason: added thought
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  #18  
Old March 25th, 2007, 10:07 am
HP_hedgehog  Male.gif HP_hedgehog is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Well, that surely was an interesting read. I'm still inclined to believe the evidence that points towards Mundungus having stolen the locket. After that, he sold it to Aberforth, with whom he has no friendly relationship (he wasn't allowed to visit the Hogshead for years, remember? That's why he had dressed up as a witch in OotP), so them meating up is to the least extend peculiar. After that, Mundungus was sent to Azkaban for impersonating an Inferius. So, the trio will most likely go to #12, to Azkaban and then to Hogsmeade. Or has Jo started to make more obvious clues as a red herring? To cover up the more subtle clues? I think she hasn't ...

Anyway, I did like your theory. It's a bit like the Dumbledore's-letters-to-Petunia-are-hidden-beneath-the-creaking-stairs at the Dursleys' house. But there were some far-fetched things...

Firstly, are there any other mentions of fabric at #12 Grimmauld Place? Because it would make sense if she referred to all of it as "moth-eaten". I don't agree with the Percy's-letter-thing... I think of Percy as the example of someone who, ambitiously makes the wrong choices but sticks to them. He is stubborn and forgiving is not easy for him. I think he's the example of a character who WAS acting on his own accord. I mean, how many imposters impersonating people can Jo pull off? I think that, with Percy, it's not the case that he was on "the good side" all along. The world doesn't consist of good and bad people, there's a large group in the grey area in between and one of the things that is so brilliant about Jo's writing, is that she is capable of thinking of characters who aren't "good" or "bad", not all of them. In a lot of books, people are either good or bad. Jo does a wonderful job describing characters who aren't either of them. And with that, I don't necessarily mean Percy, I got a bit off topic.

Anyway, one other thing I'd like to mention is that it is at least striking that Nigellus mentioned, indeed "Slytherin", "neck" and that specific spot in one sentence. But that would raise other questions. "Stay where you are" was a message from Dumbledore. And if Phineas knew about the Horcrux being hidden there, how come Dumbledore didn't?

Your theory brilliantly adds up to wonderful conclusions, but I think it relies a bit on interpretations - which is always the case with theories. Maybe, they will find the Locket with Aberforth, but the Two Way Mirror under the floorboard? I consider the things Phineaas said to be remarkable, but not necessarily to be ... Horcrux-related. He would have told Dumbledore, I believe.

Wonderful theory and great research!


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  #19  
Old March 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
witch007  Female.gif witch007 is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Quote:
I'm not sure if he's trying to give Harry a clue or if the author is simply using him to give the reader a clue.
Maybe, as the author suggests, the things Phineas says are just there as a clue for us, from Jo, not necessarily for Harry at that point. (That would remove the problem of him not telling DD, he probably didnt know about Kreacher hiding things there, I doubt he would do it when he saw Phineas was in his portrait.)

Otherwise, I loved the theory, not least because its an entirely new idea to think about (at least I havent seen before).


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  #20  
Old March 25th, 2007, 1:08 pm
HP_hedgehog  Male.gif HP_hedgehog is offline
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Re: Kreacher's Hiding Place

Quote:
Originally Posted by witch007 View Post
Maybe, as the author suggests, the things Phineas says are just there as a clue for us, from Jo, not necessarily for Harry at that point. (That would remove the problem of him not telling DD, he probably didnt know about Kreacher hiding things there, I doubt he would do it when he saw Phineas was in his portrait.)

Otherwise, I loved the theory, not least because its an entirely new idea to think about (at least I havent seen before).
I completely agree

The only problem is, that ... IF the Locket is hidden there and hasn't gone astray by the means of Mundungus and Aberforth, how will Harry find out? Will he first follow the more obvious path? (#12, Grimmauld Place, (Kreacher?,) Mundungus in Azkaban, Aberforth, to wherever the locket went after Aberforth if it did) and IF this path seems inprofitable, how will he get back to Kreacher? Won't it take up too much of Book 7 to have red herring like this, plus of course other red herrings (there will be more)? Is it possible, that the Locket had been hidden there but isn't anymore?

Like this:

- Locket is stolen by Voldemort from Hepzibah Smith and turned into a Horcrux.
- Voldemort places it in the cave.
- Regulus steals it somehow and manages to bring it home (#12 Grimmauld Place) before getting killed.
- Harry, the Weasley family etc., find the Locket ("a heavy locket none of them could open") and throw it away.
- Kreacher gets it out of the trash and hides it under the floorboard.
- Mundungus somehow finds out about the floorboard and steals the Locket.
- Mundungus sells it to Aberforth.
- Mundungus is nearly killed by Harry in Hogsmeade.
- Mundungus is sent to Azkaban for impersonating an Inferius.
- Harry will somehow remember the Locket, probably while at Grimmauld Place because he will have figured out R.A.B.
- He will ask Kreacher about it and Kreacher will divulge the hiding place.
- The hiding place proves to be empty. Somehow, they will remember Mundungus having stolen a lot of stuff or maybe they will find some trace of him there. Maybe they will notice everything else valuable gone and presume that he stole the Locket too.
- Harry visits Azkaban where he questions Mundungus. The latter divulges having sold the Locket to the barman of the Hogshead.
- Harry visits the Hogshead where he will ask the barman about the Locket. He will probably still have it (being a brother of Dumbledore and all.. and simply because Harry will need to talk to him, not ask him one question and go on finding the Locket).
- Harry is in possession of the Locket and somehow destroys it.

This would make sense in some ways ... 1) the Locket WAS there under the floorboard while Harry was having his conversation with Phineas and while he slept in that very room and 2) Kreacher doesn't know it's been stolen. Now, the only "problems" here are 1) how did Mundungus find out about the space underneath the floorboard and 2) what is the purpose of having the floorboard there?

A possible answer to 2) is that the two-way mirror might still be there and Mundungus left is there, thinking it was just a mirror. Then, they've at least found something.

Phew! That's all I wanted to say


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