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Blood - Not Horcruxes



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  #1  
Old March 25th, 2007, 10:43 pm
more2live4  Female.gif more2live4 is offline
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Blood - Not Horcruxes

This is to discuss Blood - Not Horcruxes by Robert Ogden.



Last edited by more2live4; March 25th, 2007 at 10:51 pm.
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  #2  
Old March 25th, 2007, 11:12 pm
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Interesting idea, but i don't think so. And i'm just slightly confused on how it's meant to work.


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  #3  
Old March 25th, 2007, 11:13 pm
sondra sondra is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I was dissapointed in this editorial.


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  #4  
Old March 25th, 2007, 11:33 pm
Alliria  Undisclosed.gif Alliria is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Interesting theories, but canon suggests that using specifically Harry's blood was NOT necessary...

(Wormtail) "It could be done without Harry Potter, My Lord."
...
(Voldemort) "I could use another wizard," said the cold voice softly, "that is true...." (GoF American paperback pgs. 8-9)


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Old March 25th, 2007, 11:38 pm
Kip Kip is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I just wanted to say that you've got a great pen name, "Bob"!


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Old March 25th, 2007, 11:50 pm
Moaning Catz  Female.gif Moaning Catz is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I think the only reason Voldemort used Harry's blood was because he had the protection of his mother in it, and if Voldemort used his instead of anyone elses, Voldemort would be able to touch Harry. If he used anyone else's blood he still wouldn't have been able to touch Harry.

So yeah Harry's blood was important but he still could have used any one else that hated him- he just wouldn't have the same benifit (touching Harry and not getting hurt.)

Just wanted to say that.


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Old March 26th, 2007, 12:06 am
Emmasj  Female.gif Emmasj is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I was going to say what Alliria said - Voldemort's stubborness and wanting-to-kill-Harry made him use Harry's blood. He could have used ANYONE'S blood. And if he needed to, he could do that later.


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  #8  
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:12 am
KathyH  Female.gif KathyH is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Voldemort admitted that he could have used the blood of any wizard, since practically all of the wizarding community would have met the requirements for 'blood of my enemy, forcibly taken'. He just wanted the protection in Harry's blood. So the major premise of this editorial is faulty.


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  #9  
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:33 am
sunset03  Undisclosed.gif sunset03 is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Sorry, your essay just wasn't that great. I don't know why they posted it. Harry's blood was never needed. If he defeated Voldemort while there were still horcruxes left they could just find the rest of them later and destroy them. Then Voldemort couldn't come back at all. He'd die. There is absolutely no need for Harry to die. Harry sacrificing himself would serve no purpose because Voldemort could use anyone's blood.


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  #10  
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:42 am
Twycross  Male.gif Twycross is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Sorry mate, readers wouldn't buy this ending at all. Harry would never, ever, under any curcumstances, just skip into the veil if there was a chance of Voldemort returning to power. It would rob us of a Horcrux hunt we've waited nearly two years for and ultimately, J.K said books six and seven are two parts of one whole. J.K wouldn't spend all of book six setting up horcruxes, only to write a seventh book where horcruxes don't play into the climax. You should have thought this through more. Alot more.


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  #11  
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:58 am
plainlypotter  Female.gif plainlypotter is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

This was an interesting ,if flawed ,take on the need for harry's blood. As most have already commented, V could have used anybody's blood, and he probably would have used cedric's blood had he touched the triwizard's cup alone even though he wanted harry's blood it wasn't essential to V's plan for rebirth. I think to him, harry's blood was an "extra" protection, or was it? It has been my contention that harry's blood was essential to D's and Lily's plan not V's.

I think Lily knew of the old magical protection her love would give harry at the time she shielded harry from V's AK. That said, I think that D counted on V coming after harry for his blood ( that old gleam in D's eye). When I first read that line in GoF I immediately thought that Harry's blood running through V's veins would act as an infection that would kill V. But when he didn't die in book 5 or even appear to be weakened I put that thought on a shelf figuring it would not be the ultimate cause of V's death. Then came HBP and the revelation about the horcruxes. This made my original theory workable, for the only reason that harry's blood didn't do away with V was because of the horcruxes. Now if book 7 has harry getting rid of the rest of the horcruxes which I presume it will, then harry will be able to vanquish V without ever really facing him in what would be a Dumbledorelike battle. This serves two important goals 1- it rids the wizarding world of evil V and 2- harry's soul remains intact as he has not had to kill anyone, V has dome this himself


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  #12  
Old March 26th, 2007, 1:37 am
Neville27  Undisclosed.gif Neville27 is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

While I agree with others that Voldemort could have used anyone's blood, based on what he said, I think there is a good chance the whole "blood" thing must come into play. Dumbledore's "look of triumph" must mean something yet explained in canon.

I think plainlypotter should write an editorial. Good idea with the blood there. Only problem is literary-the ending seemed anticlimatic to me, at first. I pictured the trio in a cave someplace, destroying the last horocrux, and Voldemort dying suddenly somewhere else. I guess it could be done if Voldemort was arriving on the scene as the trio tried to kill the last horocrux, so he had to be fended off as they attempted to destroy it.


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  #13  
Old March 26th, 2007, 1:40 am
samlindude  Male.gif samlindude is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

ok there is one INCREDIBLE big flaw in you reasoning

in the 4th book Voldemort specifically sates that Wormtail would have used anyones blood because Voldemort's has so many enemies. The choices are quite plentiful. He wanted to use Harry's blood because it would make him more powerful and able to touch Harry.

While your thought is interesting this flaw makes it completely impossible

A more interesting idea would be discussing if Voldemort still possesses the blood shield even though it has not been "recharged" because he hasnt lived with good old Aunt Petunia (wouldnt that be fun)


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  #14  
Old March 26th, 2007, 1:43 am
yappa1  Undisclosed.gif yappa1 is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Too many flaws in your theory


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  #15  
Old March 26th, 2007, 1:53 am
halo2  Undisclosed.gif halo2 is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I believe Dumbledore said in SS/PS to Harry at the end of the book,
there are still many ways in which he can return. The blood and stone were not the only ways to which he could be brought back.

I wonder if Dumbledore knew that Harry's blood could be used in bringing him back?

And at least they are putting up more editorials again, for a while it seemed like they were not putting up anything.


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  #16  
Old March 26th, 2007, 1:55 am
JohnnyReklaw  Undisclosed.gif JohnnyReklaw is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I see your point that the blood could infect Voldemort and avoid the major climactic battle, but it seems that a major climactic battle is what this series is calling for. I can't see JK ending the series without this.

Also, the blood shield protection would expire upon Harry's 17th birthday. Given that Harry's birthday is likely to happen within the first 100 pages of DH (just a theory given the first 6 books), Voldemort couldn't be killed by this ancient magical protection.

Finally, Sirius and Dumbledore had to die because the Hero has to go on alone. Throughout the series, Dumbledore and Sirius protected Harry. With them gone, he can, single-handedly, defeat Voldemort, as he is destined to do.

Good idea though...


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  #17  
Old March 26th, 2007, 2:18 am
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Like almost everyone else who has commented on this editorial I think your theory is flawed in a number of ways. As Alliria pointed out Harry's blood was not necessary in restoring Voldemort to a body as any witch or wizard's blood could have been used. Also, I think that unless all the Horcruxes are destroyed before Harry confronts Voldemort Harry's efforts would all be in vain since other Deatheaters would still be able to perform the necessary magic.

I agree with sunset03 that this is one of the weakest editorials published for quite some time. I'm sorry to say that it really has too many flaws to have any real credibility .


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  #18  
Old March 26th, 2007, 2:34 am
plainlypotter  Female.gif plainlypotter is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neville27 View Post
While I agree with others that Voldemort could have used anyone's blood, based on what he said, I think there is a good chance the whole "blood" thing must come into play. Dumbledore's "look of triumph" must mean something yet explained in canon.

I think plainlypotter should write an editorial. Good idea with the blood there. Only problem is literary-the ending seemed anticlimatic to me, at first. I pictured the trio in a cave someplace, destroying the last horocrux, and Voldemort dying suddenly somewhere else. I guess it could be done if Voldemort was arriving on the scene as the trio tried to kill the last horocrux, so he had to be fended off as they attempted to destroy it.
actually I saw harry going after nagini ( the likely last horcrux ) and the horcrux that would likely be protected by V himself. That would give the last V-Harry battle a battle of two against one and the possibility of a V win over harry as Nagini would not be dead at the time harry had to face V.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReklaw View Post
I see your point that the blood could infect Voldemort and avoid the major climactic battle, but it seems that a major climactic battle is what this series is calling for. I can't see JK ending the series without this.

Also, the blood shield protection would expire upon Harry's 17th birthday. Given that Harry's birthday is likely to happen within the first 100 pages of DH (just a theory given the first 6 books), Voldemort couldn't be killed by this ancient magical protection.

Finally, Sirius and Dumbledore had to die because the Hero has to go on alone. Throughout the series, Dumbledore and Sirius protected Harry. With them gone, he can, single-handedly, defeat Voldemort, as he is destined to do.

Good idea though...
I have never taken the blood shield protection as ending on harry's 17th birthday at any place other than at privit drive hence the reason petunia and vernon took harry in as a child and why they appear to be so panicky in HBP at hearing that Harry will become of age at age 17 and not 18. The blood shield was protecting not only harry but the dursleys as well. If you check the times when we we see any wizarding contact with harry it is almost always at a distance. By this I mean - they appear close to #4 but not that close - usually it seems (unless harry and or D has told the person where he lives - like the Weasleys) they appear at the end of privit drive and even when harry and D leave the dursleys in HBP they disapparate at the end of privit drive.

As for the ending being flat - see my answer to Neville27


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Last edited by plainlypotter; March 26th, 2007 at 2:48 am. Reason: wrong location
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  #19  
Old March 26th, 2007, 3:16 am
limecoconut3  Female.gif limecoconut3 is offline
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

I was intrigued when I started reading, but then I feel the editorial started to falter. I don't really see any reason to believe that Harry won't go after the horcruxes in book 7. And I don't think Harry will be content with letting Voldemort just live a kind of half life.


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  #20  
Old March 26th, 2007, 3:24 am
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Re: Blood - Not Horcruxes

This is founded on two premises that we know are false. One, only the potion devised by Voldemort using the blood of an enemy could return "Vapuormort" to a body. However, we know that the Philosopher's Stone could have done that also. So, Vapourmort II would still have a way of returning even with no enemies.

Two, the potion did not require the blood of Voldemort's worst enemy. It required only the blood of an enemy. Voldemort wanted Harry's blood because he wanted to immunize himself against the charm Lily's sacrifice placed on Harry.


Here is a simpler explanation for the Gleam in Dumbledore's Eyes, and how Harry's blood will defeat Voldemort: the protective charm of Lily's sacrifice now imbues Voldemort not only lets him touch Harry, but it also prevents Voldemort from separating out fragments of his soul. In other words, Voldemort cannot replace the destroyed Horcruxes such as the Diary.

Why should we think this? In Half-Blood Prince, Dumbledore notes that Voldemort's rage upon learning that the Diary was destroyed was terrible. Harry asks why, given that it was Voldemort's plan all along to send it into Hogwarts and thus risk its destruction. Dumbledore's reply (in part) is that Malfoy's willfulness infuriated Voldemort, but also that in 1981, Voldemort thought that he would be able to make more Horcruxes. So, why doesn't Voldemort think that in 1996? (More exactly, why does Dumbledore think that Voldemort thinks this: remember, we get Dumbledore's interpretations.)

Moreover, Dumbledore thinks that Voldemort was able to make a Horcrux as recently as his "Babymort" phase. So, what changed? Voldemort got Harry's blood, including the residual charm that Lily left. In many belief systems (including that branch of Christianity to which Rowling claims membership), love "heals" souls. In Potterverse, we are told that love is the most powerful basis of magic, although Voldemort disagrees. This is why Dumbledore's eyes gleamed: he realized that Voldemort had just made it impossible for himself to make any more Horcruxes.

So, Harry's blood will serve the plot by providing a reason for Voldemort to not maintain a 7-part soul (or so I am predicting!).


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Last edited by Wimsey; March 26th, 2007 at 4:36 am.
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