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Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!



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  #1  
Old July 6th, 2007, 8:47 pm
Rayjo  Female.gif Rayjo is offline
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Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Discussion for Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown! by Taure, your friendly pureblood supremacist.


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  #2  
Old July 6th, 2007, 9:41 pm
Anna_bella  Female.gif Anna_bella is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

I feel this editioral is well written but I think that you have over looked one important fact wizards and muggle are both humans and are therefore able breed.

This creates may problems which the 1692 The International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy can not control.
There is nothing is as powerful as the human heart and love.
We can not control who we love or fall in love with (well very much anyway).

I therefore think that it would be better instead of making muggleborns,and half bloods walk in two worlds e.g muggle and magic.
That pureblood wizards can not understand because they like muggles only live in one of these worlds and not two. That it would be better if the two worlds had stayed one!

If they had the whole of the human kind would not be facing the current Dark Lord formly know as Tom Maravolo Riddle!
His mother and the rest of her wizarding family was able to slip through both the muggle social services and the wizarding goverenment safety net!

If both worlds were one then this would not have happened. The wizards and muggles would nauturally facing many other problems if the world were still one, but I feel that the alienation, distrust and fear that both muggles and wizards have of each other is based upon this Act of 1962 The International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy.

How can wizarding kind be whole, ethical and good if they are alway using mind control and disception on other human beings e.g muggles?
The argue that it is for the muggles protection does not hold up as the main reason for it is to stop the muggles bothering the wizards with their problems. I say that this Act of 1962 is for the wizards procection, peace of mind and ease of life.
It is easer for wizards not to bother with lower unmagical human kind!
What snobs wizards are!



Last edited by Anna_bella; July 6th, 2007 at 9:50 pm.
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  #3  
Old July 6th, 2007, 11:31 pm
kiri12  Female.gif kiri12 is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Good editorial, very wizardish. Although admittedly there wasn't really a point, unless we readers were wizards as well, expecting and fearing a war between muggles and themselves. But very funny!


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Old July 7th, 2007, 2:15 am
goldspinner  Undisclosed.gif goldspinner is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Excellent points! However, here in the United States 1692 was an exceptionally horrific year for Muggles accused of practicing witchcraft and wizardry. The infamous Salem Witch Trials took place in 1692.


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Old July 7th, 2007, 2:58 am
inkling7  Female.gif inkling7 is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

I agree that there are snobs in the wizarding world but not all wizards are snobs. Naturally the wizarding world use magic to make their everyday lives a little easier but wouldn't we all if we could. I mean I'd love to be able to use magic for housework etc and to apparate to work - so much quicker but as for warfare I think muggles have created more havoc with bombs etc than wizards have with magic unless of course it was wizards who inented the WMD's in the first place? Muggles certainly have played more havoc environmentally with their inventions than wizards as their power doesn't affect the pollution, ozone layers and greenhouse gases as aeroplanes, cars, electricity etc do. I guess being from the wizarding world means you are more environmentally friendly than muggles from are.


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  #6  
Old July 7th, 2007, 7:36 am
supersmileys  Female.gif supersmileys is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Muggles aren't too dumb, though. And they are also humans, too.
If wizards can always come up with ways to prevent Muggles from conquering in a war, Muggles will always come up with new things to keep fighting. I guess I'm prejudiced, being a muggle myself
Nice editorial.


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  #7  
Old July 7th, 2007, 8:37 am
Senefen  Undisclosed.gif Senefen is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

I think it's a matter of numbers.
There are over 6.5 billion people in the world. How many of those are wizards? A few million?
If the wizard world was exposed, especially for bad reasons.
Say the death eaters are winning the war, muggle/muggle born killing/torture runs unchecked as the ministry has to focus on protecting themselves rather than hiding the wizard world.
Those who know of wizards in the muggle world - families of muggle borns, those in power etc reveal the existence of the wizarding world as it threatens their own.
If for whatever reason it came to war the sheer numbers of muggles would likely force wizards back. Know Wizards would have to have bullet repelling charms on always for fear of sniping. It is likely that a genetic test could be developed for magic (it's obviously genetic). Muggle children found to be magic would not be sent to join the magic world, at least without heavy involvement from muggle authorities. If the war ends and the ministry wins they will likely hide their world again but they wont be forgotten so easily.
If the Death eaters win they'll make no effort to hide the world. If 1000 muggles are killed for every wizard muggles will still be the ones to survive. Wizards will be hunted down, as they want to stay pure bloods they'll die out anyway. Muggle children born with magic will not be sent to join the death eaters and as their is no longer a ministry their powers will go untrained and unused.

It's all a matter of numbers, there are far too few wizards, especially combatants, to hope to challenge the muggle world.


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  #8  
Old July 7th, 2007, 1:53 pm
lmk  Female.gif lmk is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

I like this editorial for its unique "voice" - that of a member of the wizarding community writing for other members of the same community. While I think some good points have been made within the context the editorial, I also think it contains a lot of loose ends and loopholes. Still, it was a refreshing change of pace from some of the more recent editorials. Good job!


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  #9  
Old July 7th, 2007, 2:50 pm
TheApostate  Undisclosed.gif TheApostate is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Flame freezing charms protect a wizard from chemical fires and cushioning charms protect him from kinetic forces found in day-to-day life. If you really thing thats a Wizard's power would be strong enough to provide the strenght behind a charm required to protect him from the thermal and kinetic energies released in an atomic explosion, I think it warrants the use of the d-word.


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  #10  
Old July 7th, 2007, 4:40 pm
Taure  Male.gif Taure is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Quote:
Flame freezing charms protect a wizard from chemical fires and cushioning charms protect him from kinetic forces found in day-to-day life. If you really thing thats a Wizard's power would be strong enough to provide the strenght behind a charm required to protect him from the thermal and kinetic energies released in an atomic explosion, I think it warrants the use of the d-word.
And I think you didn't read the editorial properly.

Think about if for a moment.

The flame freezing charm makes fire tickle - it makes it harmless.

Under the "Muggle" laws of physics, this is impossible.

There are not "levels of immpossibility" - either something is impossible, or it isn't.

So, the law of physics that says "fire hurts people" has been broken, and the temperature of the fire has no meaning - fire in all of its forms has been made harmless.

You're thinking like a Muggle :P

Another problem that creates this kind of thinking is the Newtonian ideas of equal and opposite forces. You're assuming that, to protect yourself from a high temperature, you need to exert a magical protection of equal and opposite force. This is a Muggle law, not a magical one. Just as magic breaks the laws of gravity, electromagnetism and all that jazz, it can break this law too.

So, the flame-freezing charm stops fire from hurting people. Period. You don't have to pimp it up to make it work better at higher temperatures, you either cast it successfully - thus protecting yourself from fire - or unsuccessfully.

Anyway, I'm surprised to see this editorial up: I submitted it a while back, but its nice to see it there.


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Old July 7th, 2007, 8:49 pm
sfgilgalad  Undisclosed.gif sfgilgalad is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Hehe funny. I had another idea, I think that they wanted to protect the muggles from themselves. Muggles were crazy about wizards, so much that they were burning A LOT of muggles in they're war against wizards. So, for the safety of the muggle world, wizards had to go into hiding. Probably until muggles get more clever. But I never found Wizards very clever. They are nice guys (most of them) and very crazy (everyone I think).
Anyway, I think there is a way to defeat the wizards (if you want to defeat your enemy you have to use his own weapons, ask english people).
1st :Not to marry them anymore They will decrease and fade away like old creepy elves in Lord of the Ring.
2nd : muggle borns won't fight muggles. They will fight wizards. (And that's already what's happening, isn't it).
I've always been surprised that so many wizards could marry so many muggles when the law is so strict with act of magic in muggle areas.
They need our blood
If they destroy us, they will destroy themselves. If they make us their slaves, to make children, those won't be loved by their parents, so it's likely in the end, they will all decrease and fade away like creepy houselves.

Wizards only can choose between simbiosis or parasite state. We don't need them. Only to light the fire hehehe


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Old July 8th, 2007, 12:03 am
Night Owl  Undisclosed.gif Night Owl is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

I have very mixed feelings about all of this. There is a good part of me that agrees with Anna_bella - that the two worlds should become unified. Certainly the 1692 International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy has saved the wizarding community from certain inconveniences: while it is true that the concept of muggles actually being able to set fire to wizards against their will is quite silly, it must have been very inconvenient to deal with those constant interruptions to one's daily routine. While that particular style of persecution faded away with the passing of centuries in most areas, there are other forms of persecution that are still in practice that would cause inconvenience to adult wizards, and perhaps even emotional and physical dangers to young wizards and witches who have not yet been trained to deal with these attacks. For example, in muggle entertainment vehicles referred to as "movies and television shows" with such strange titles as "The X-Men" and "Babylon 5", it becomes clear that in a unified society, many muggles in political power would advocate the restriction of the rights of wizards, or anyone else possessing powers not equally possessed by common muggles. While it is silly to conceive that any real harm could come to wizards and witches in a separate society, in a unified society where wizard and muggle children played together and went to school together, there may be significant psychological damage inflicted on the young wizard or witch who is teased and bullied because of possessing unusual talents. We see this example in young Harry Potter's life. Also, it should be remembered that young witches and wizards are not yet able to control their powers in order to defend themselves against unwarranted attacks. Parents do have the ability to guard their children to some degree, but many children are able to find ways to spend time out of their parents' watchful eyes, and may put themselves in some danger to those who would wish them harm.

On the other hand, I do believe that there is an inevitable link between the muggle and wizarding worlds that cannot be ignored. Children are born from muggle parents with the ability to do magic, and children are born to wizarding parents who are not able to use magic at all. A magical child in a non-wizarding world is teased and bullied until they are brought into the wizarding world. In the same light however, isn't it fair to say that non-magical children in the wizarding world are also teased and bullied, and called the somewhat derogatory name "squib"? In a unified world, would perhaps these squibs be happier? And cutting off wizarding children from muggle education may also have its negative consequences - would not wizarding businesses perhaps profit from muggle theories of economics, as business is an inherently non-magical thing? Would not some understanding of muggle sciences benefit the magical world somehow? Would not some appreciation of muggle arts, music, and literature enhance the wizarding experience? And what of love? Can anyone deny that the love between the parents of the well-known auror Nymphadora Tonks gave something very beneficial to the wizarding community? Protection of the wizarding community or of the muggle community is an important consideration, but unifying the two worlds may ultimately prove beneficial in a way that the inhabitants of neither world had previously imagined.

One other point - I think appreciate many of your points, but I think you are being a little too cynical when suggesting that Muggle Affairs-related departments such as the Misuse of Muggle Artifacts Office exist for the purpose of increasing wizarding employment. While I do not know the members of that office very well on a personal level, I have gotten the impression that their interest in muggle studies is quite sincere - they are taking these jobs because their is a match in a certain societal need and certain individual talents and interests. Had there been no need (perceived or real) for regulating interactions with muggles, I am certain that other job opportunities would have presented themselves. (Although I confess I am a bit ignorant on the exact percentage of unemployment in the wizarding world, I have gotten the impression that it is not particularly high.)


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Old July 8th, 2007, 8:32 am
dumbledoreelite dumbledoreelite is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Fantastic editorial. Well put. Peace is the ONLY thing standing in the way. Funny, the power of love always wins. I love it when Taure was speaking through a wizarding viewpoint. Oh sorry, you're a real wizard. My mistake. But awesome editorial. Well written.


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Old July 9th, 2007, 1:28 am
member_of_SPEW  Female.gif member_of_SPEW is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Great editorial! It's an interesting idea and you had some great insights - especially about wizards being able to survive an atomic bomb if they are prepared; I never would have thought of that.

Has anyone read The Bartimaeus Trilogy, by Jonathan Straud? It's sort of about this - set in modern England, but the government is run by wizards. Children with magical talents are born in non-magic families and immediately taken to be trained as wizards. The magical government is cruel and discriminatory towards ordinary people. It's a very good story, and all three books are out. Its premise of magic being based on invocation (calling up demons) is un-Christian and, I think, dangerous, but it's a fun read and offers an idea of a world where magicians and muggles are not separated - a world which might have developed without the International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy .


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Old July 9th, 2007, 1:33 am
TheApostate  Undisclosed.gif TheApostate is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Quote:
So, the law of physics that says "fire hurts people" has been broken, and the temperature of the fire has no meaning - fire in all of its forms has been made harmless.
There's no such law of physics. From what Rowling has shown us magic is just another form of energy that certain humans are able to conduct and direct and is subject to physicals laws, including entropy.
Magic makes it easier to do certain things, it does not allow "impossible things" to be done. I know a way to prevent fire from hurting me without magic, although it only works for a short time and for small flames.

Quote:
There are not "levels of immpossibility" - either something is impossible, or it isn't.
There are levels of difficulty. its is not impossible for a muggle to use mundane methods to protect himself from thermal or kinetic energies. So flame freezing and cushioning charms, while convenient, do not break any physical laws or do anything "impossible".

It is also clear that size and number (quantity) in short are important in magic.


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Old July 9th, 2007, 3:04 pm
Taure  Male.gif Taure is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Quote:
There's no such law of physics.
Ok then, the "series of physical, chemical, and biological processes that make fire harmful." Saying "the law of physics" was just a much quicker way of saying that.

Quote:
its is not impossible for a muggle to use mundane methods to protect himself from thermal or kinetic energies. So flame freezing and cushioning charms, while convenient, do not break any physical laws or do anything "impossible".
That is where you are wrong. Muggle methods of fire protection, whether it is a fire-protective suit, or a cream that you put on your skin, act as a barrier between the fire and the person. Magical methods (or at least, the flame-freezing charm) do no such thing. Instead, they change the very fundamental nature of fire, so that it is no longer harmful. Fire that is not hot is something that Muggles cannot do: it is a physical impossibility.

Quote:
Magic makes it easier to do certain things, it does not allow "impossible things" to be done
Right...so what about apparition, transfiguration, many charms such as the entrance to platform 9 3/4....or pretty much any piece of magic?


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Old July 9th, 2007, 11:03 pm
sfgilgalad  Undisclosed.gif sfgilgalad is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Taure, magic doesn't really change the nature of the elements : if you transfigure a teacher into an armchair, it will remain your teacher. Only the appearance changed. And, it's a lot easier to make a golf ball from an egg than a computer from a dinosaure. So, I guess a flame freezing charm will be easier if it's a little fire than an armaggedon. Magic is limited in range, and in time. In India there are people who are able to dance on fires. It's impressive !
I agree that for most of magic (in Harry Potter), it's only illusion, just like cinema. And that you can fight it, and the effects, if you refuse it. But that for high advanced magic, yeah, it allows impossible things for muggles.


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Old July 9th, 2007, 11:35 pm
king king is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

The Wizards hve magic and so they could easily beat the Muggles in a war, at least from a mechanical-physical point of view. But Wizards aren't psychologically prepared to beat us in a war. Muggles are pretty helpless compared to Wizards, but most of the wizards in JKR's fantasy world seem to be nice people who wouldn't want to wage war against Muggles. Muggles outnumber Wizards by about 3000 to 1 (give or take a thousand or so). The Wizards don't need soldiers to beat the Muggles, they need butchers. The emotional strain of killing so many helpless people would prevent the wizards from wiping out the Muggles. Who would do the killing for the Wizards? Not the Muggleborn for sure, nor the half-bloods. I can't imagine good pure-blooded Wizards like the Weasleys or Ernie MacMillan killing thousands of Muggles either.

Wizards aren't afraid of Muggles, they're afraid of bad Wizards. Muggles are like clay pigeons. Men shoot clay pigeons for practice, not because they're afraid of them. If some Wizard started killing hundreds of Muggles, the nice Wizards would start to get scared as to what this might lead to.

The secrecy act makes sense, not because Wizards are afraid of Muggles, but because it allows the small population of Wizards to form a community. Separation from Muggle society helps to foster pure-blood to pure-blood marriages that keep the magical community viable.


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Old July 11th, 2007, 4:28 pm
PHOENIX_ENFLAME  Female.gif PHOENIX_ENFLAME is offline
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taure View Post
And I think you didn't read the editorial properly.

Anyway, I'm surprised to see this editorial up: I submitted it a while back, but its nice to see it there.

Yes, finally, I have been waiting for a couple of months now. I was very pleased to read another editorial by you. I really enjoyed it. Thank you.


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Old July 24th, 2007, 4:30 pm
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Re: Wizards vs. Muggles: The Showdown!

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