Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > MuggleNet Editorials > General Editorial

Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:00 am
more2live4  Female.gif more2live4 is offline
MuggleNet Editorial
 
Joined: 2752 days
Posts: 0
Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

This is to discuss Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth by Saint_Helga and Dan Estes.


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old July 11th, 2007, 9:27 am
7phoenix7  Male.gif 7phoenix7 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3265 days
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 29
Posts: 31
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

I admire the thought and creativity that went into this editorial, and in a strange way it makes sense. However, there are far too many assumptive jumps in the theory to make it plausible. Simply because JKR says something is possible does not mean that it willhappen, even eventually. She loves leaving openings for her readers to fall through, and especially for Harry to fall through. I understand that this is your point exactly in this theory, that we the readers have fallen through one of these holes and have made too many huge assumptions, but bear with me.
A few lines from Dumbledore seem to directly contradict your theory. If the readers, through 6 books, have accepted Dumbledore's words as those of a narrator as well as a character, as many believe JKR intended them to be, then our headmaster has already shot down the Neville theory.
When Harry inquires about the line in the prophecy, "neither can live while the other survives", as inferring that either he or Voldemort must kill the other, Dumbledore (and by extension, JKR to the readers) replies simply with "Yes."
Harry will kill Voldemort, or Voldemort will kill Harry. That's it.
One more thought on Dumbledore's role as a narrator that has just occurred to me. Through one of Harry and Dumbledore's many conversations JKR has already told us much more about the prophecy and its implications. Dumbledore explains to Harry that Voldemort chose him, and by doing so created his own nemesis. Voldemort chose Harry, marked Harry, and through many years of subsequent attempts on his life and the life of his friends and family, some successful, Voldemort has inadvertently created his own worst enemy. Dumbledore asks Harry the hypothetical question that if he had never learned the prophecy, never learned why Voldemort killed his parents, and gave him the scar, would he stop his journey to kill Voldemort? The answer was no. Harry has suffered more than anyone else in Voldemort's path. Faced him and his associates more often. He cannot stop, and will not stop until one of them are dead, making the prophecy certain to come true, one of them must die at the hands of the other.

One last idea that will probably make more sense than anything you can find in canon to contradict your theory comes from my own point-of-view as reader. I WOULD BE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY LIVID AT JKR IF ANYONE BUT HARRY KILLS VOLDEMORT!!!!!! Do you really think she would create this entire new literary world with all of these amazing characters, creatures, and places....gather a following of readers that now extends into the tens of millions....all reading about this boy...this wizard....that has grown, suffered, loved....and lost....that we have grown so attached to....that we have watched through 6 books now.....waiting in agony to see him finally confront and kill the man who has caused him and the world so much pain.....only to have this evil Lord cut down by Neville Longbottom? Just doesn't make any logical sense mate. There would be riots all over the world and mobs would probably burn London to the ground if this is the ending to the greatest literary epic of this generation.

Well, that's my little rant for this evening. Hope everyone enjoyed it. Happy reading, and may JKR have mercy on Harry Potter's soul.


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 11th, 2007, 9:30 am
waggawaggawer  Undisclosed.gif waggawaggawer is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3345 days
Location: Emerald City, Oz
Posts: 69
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

What an interesting essay! And ten days from the release of Deathly Hallows you could be right as well. I liked your distinction between the fulfilment of the first prophecy and the second, which might explain much. But there is one difference, not only the mystical versus the self-fulfilling that isn't mentioned.

There is one glaring difference between the 1st prophecy and Sybill Trelawney's second prophecy: The first prophecy, however it is regarded, and whoever was listening at the keyhole, did not have a time limit as to its fulfilment: It merely states that someone born at the end of July to people who had defied LV thrice would have the power to conquer LV.

But the second prophecy definitely did have a time limit for its fulfilment, like before the close of day. Mighty soon to avert any fulfilments isn't it? It may be mystical, but there is nothing mystical about telling a speeding driver that he will be booked before the close of day, when on that day whether anyone knew about it or not, the police had set up a speed trap.

After all, whatever Sybill knew or did not know about 'the Dark Lord's servant', she fully expected Buckbeak to be executed, and that the Ministry, including at least one DE - McNair, were out in force. And Trelawney would certainly have known about Sirius Black's interest in Hogwarts - she even saw the Grim, didn't she? But she misinterpreted her own insights, as per usual, and it was that very night, I agree, that the events of Buckbeak's execution flushed out Wormtail's last place of concealment at Hogwarts.

The POA prophecy says: 'The Dark Lord lies alone and friendless, abandoned by his followers. His servant has been chained these twelve years. Tonight, before midnight, the servant will break free and set out to rejoin his master. The Dark Lord will rise again with his servant's aid, greater and more terrible than ever before. Tonight...before midnight...the servant ...will set out...to rejoin...his master.' - POA, p. 238, uk ed ppb.

Notice the elisions, much like what Harry saw of the first prophecy as Dumbledore remembered it.


__________________
Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde.
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls.
It tolls for thee."

- John Donne (1573-1631)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 11th, 2007, 10:01 am
bribe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

The theory that Neville is the one has been around for several years now and has been proven wrong so many times from numerous different sources that I am amazed anyone still gives it any credibility. The most obvious proof Harry is the chosen one (or the one) is in the titles of the books: Harry Potter and the ... - not Neville Longbottom and the ... The other two sagas you refer to do not contain a name in the title therefore they do not identify an individual as the hero. JKR's books do include a name in the title; ie, they name a hero.

Sorry, but I cannot give your theory any credence.

I just copied this reply from an earlier submission I made to a similar editorial published in January on this site. My opinions have not changed.


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 11th, 2007, 1:17 pm
Strider62442  Undisclosed.gif Strider62442 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3474 days
Posts: 265
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

I think it is a definate possibility that Voldemort's actual death occurs due to someone else's action. But the gun, whoever pulls the trigger, is going to be pointed by Harry. I don't think JKR had Dumbledore get so agitated in "Horcruxes" for no reason. The point that Voldemort himself made Harry the Chosen One with his own actions is critical. It ties in with the overiding theme of the series about choices. Voldemort's appearance deteriorated because he sank so deep into evil. Dumbledore got the look of triumph in his eyes when told about Harry's blood being used to regenerate Voldemort. When logic indicates that this was a bad thing, Dumbledore knows otherwise. Its not hard for us to make the assumption that what Dumbledore knows here is that Voldemort is once again contributing to his own demise.

The point that JKR is going for in those features is clear. Choices matter. Evil people think their actions have no consequences other than what occurs on the surface. They don't believe that anything they do can come back to bite them. In our world this is often true.

For this reason I think Harry has to be the one to more than anyone orchestrate Voldemort's demise, even if Voldemort doesnt give up the ghost directly at Harry's hand. In saying this I dont mean, that Harry can take down the Horcruxes and someone else can take Voldemort. Harry has to have some key part in the last confrontation. Voldemort with the prophecy singled out Harry and that choice will be his ultimate downfall.


__________________
"No man should out live his fictional wizard! No man!!"--Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 11th, 2007, 1:47 pm
Beatriceblake  Female.gif Beatriceblake is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3251 days
Location: L.T.M
Posts: 30
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Interesting read but I don't think Neville is going to be the one to vanquish Voldemort. He may play some role and surprise the others by doing something heroic but it would be a bit anticlimatic if it turned out Harry was not the one to kill Voldie.


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 11th, 2007, 2:19 pm
Fool  Male.gif Fool is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3679 days
Age: 35
Posts: 298
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

It's obviously a well thought out and written editorial, but I'm afraid I too must join those who don't believe it accurate. While I believe Neville still has a greater destiny beyond being an herbology loving source of comic relief, I don't believe he will be the one to vanquish Voldie.

On the other hand, I do believe that there is something hidden in Trelawny's first prophecy. Rowling has said that the wording of the prophecy is extremely important, but considering we all wrongly took Trelawny's second prophecy in Prisoner of Azkaban at face value, it seems likely that there would be something we've overlooked in her first prophecy. If it was meant to be obvious, wouldn't the prophecy merely have been "Harry Potter has the power to kill Voldie."?


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 11th, 2007, 3:22 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3522 days
Location: 5 minutes behind everyone else
Age: 56
Posts: 2,720
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

It's an interesting editorial--we're getting some really great ones just before DH comes out--but I'm not convinced either.

JKR posted this on the FAQ section of her website after OotP was released:

"So where does this leave Neville, the boy who was so nearly King? Well, it does not give him either hidden powers or a mysterious destiny. He remains a 'normal' wizarding boy, albeit one with a past, in its way, as tragic as Harry's. As you saw in 'Order of the Phoenix,' however, Neville is not without his own latent strengths. It remains to be seen how he will feel if he ever finds out how close he came to being the Chosen One.

Some of you, who have been convinced that the prophecy marked Neville, in some mystical fashion, for a fate intertwined with Harry's, may find this answer rather dull. Yet I was making what I felt was a significant point about Harry and Voldemort, and about prophecies themselves, in showing Neville as the also-ran. If neither boy was 'pre-ordained' before Voldemort's attack to become his possible vanquisher, then the prophecy (like the one the witches make to Macbeth, if anyone has read the play of the same name) becomes the catalyst for a situation that would never have occurred if it had not been made. Harry is propelled into a terrifying position he might never have sought, while Neville remains the tantalising 'might-have-been'. Destiny is a name often given in retrospect to choices that had dramatic consequences."

I think this creates some difficulties with the Neville-vanquishing-Voldemort theory--"The boy who was so nearly king, . . . it does not give him hidden powers or a mysterious destiny," "Some of you, who have been convinced that the prophecy marked Neville, in some mystical fashion, for a fate intertwined with Harry's, may find this answer rather dull . . . Harry is propelled into a terrifying position he might never have sought, while Neville remains the tantalising 'might-have-been'."

That being said, JKR has fooled us many times before. But I'd be interested to know how to interpret this quote from her website to mean that Neville takes down Voldemort.

I agree with Strider 62442 that if anyone else vanquishes Voldemort, it will be based on something that Harry has already done.


__________________
WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 11th, 2007, 3:51 pm
Wimsey's Avatar
Wimsey  Male.gif Wimsey is offline
Curse Breaker
 
Joined: 3517 days
Location: What day is it?
Posts: 6,983
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

I am as big a proponent of keeping Chekhov's Dictum in mind as anybody: just see my signature! However, we should not allow it to induce tunnel vision, either. This can happen in one of two ways. One, if we do not recognize an immediate use for something, then we assume that it will be important later. However, we might have missed that initial importance. Two, even if it is a proper gun, then there is more than one way in which it might be fired.

I would cite Neville's wand as an example of the first case. JKR drew attention to it, so it should be important, correct? Correct: and it was important at that time. It was a reminder that Ollivander was gone, i.e., that the familiar aspects of the wizarding world were being lost. We get this with Zonkos, too: twice it comes up that it is now closed. This does not contribute to plot, but it does contribute to theme: and what Chekhov wanted was for things to serve some purpose in story telling. Theme is every bit as important as plot! (We see similar examples elsewhere in Prince: people have asked why have Harry run into Mundungus if it would not affect the overall plot? However, it was very important at that time as it reminded us of Harry's loss and also helped further the Tonks red-herring.)

I would point to this essay's prediction of Neville's role as an example of the second. I will be very surprised if the "Neville gun" is not fired. However, I will be even more surprised if it is fired in the way predicted here. Making Neville the "alternate" for the "Chosen one" did not put a Chekhovian Gun on the wall: it fired an older gun at that time. That is, the old thematic gun of how our choices shape events. It did not have to be Harry, but because Voldemort made that decision, he helped create the Macbethian Prophecy. Indeed, it gets murkier: it is quite possible that Voldemort would not have offered Neville's mother the choice that he offered Lily!

However, there still are "unfired" aspects of Neville. In particular, there is the business between Neville and Bellatrix. I was surprised to see that there is no mention of Bellatrix in this essay, but Rowling has set up the makings of a character arch for Neville involving Bellatrix. She (in part) is responsible for his pseudo-orphanage, and that seemingly has led to his complete lack of confidence. There is the issue of Neville's poor memory, which is similar to that of Bertha Jorkins: who suffered the side effects of an overly strong memory charm. Going outside of the books, Rowling has suggested that why Bellatrix went after the Longbottoms in the first place might be important. The pieces are in place for this to be important and still residing deep in Neville's memory.


When last we saw Bellatrix, she had been cast aside by Voldemort. She worships Voldemort in a fanatical way: thus, we might expect her to try to get back into Voldemort's good graces. How could she do this? Well, what about delivering Harry Potter? Yes, the Dark Lord has claimed Harry for his own, but capturing Potter for delivery is in keeping with that.

This is where Neville might distinguish himself. It would be very fitting if it were Neville who killed Bellatrix. If this saves Harry, then this character arc is closed in a very Chekhovian manner: the arch itself would propel the overall plot. It also would emphasize the Prophecy: Voldemort's choices concerning both boys pushes the conclusion towards its inevitable end. Moreover, if in the course of these events, we learn something that Neville had been forced to forget, then Neville's poor memory will be fired once again. (Keep in mind that the memory could be just character development, and it did set up Harry getting on to the Quidditch team, which in turn furthered plots in each of the first three books as well as in the sixth book; so if nothing comes of Neville's memory, then we cannot really complain too much.)


__________________
(It doubles for The Hobbit, too!)
If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - A. P. Chekhov, Gurlyand's Reminiscences, and who knew why the Dog was long before the Shack!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 11th, 2007, 3:57 pm
pottersleuth200  Undisclosed.gif pottersleuth200 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3634 days
Posts: 0
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

this is a very interesting theory, especially the thoughts about Chekhov's gun and the surprising way MacDuff fulfills the witches' prophecy in Macbeth. However, if you examine the prophecy itself, there is a continuum as to the specific person who is referred to. The prophecy says "the one who has the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... and the Dark Lord will mark HIM as his equal. It is clear that all lines of the prophecy refer to the same person. This leaves no room for the Dark Lord to mark one person and have the "one" with the power to vanquish him to be someone else.

So for example, the prophecy would not be fulfilled if Harry was marked and Neville was actually the one with the power. Go back in and plug their names in the prophecy and you will see. Since Harry was marked by the Dark Lord, the prophecy has to refer to him.


Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:05 pm
drgraft  Undisclosed.gif drgraft is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2589 days
Posts: 0
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Good essay, but I also think that Rowling has a different part for Neville to play. I have frequently noticed Rowling drawing parallels between the original Marauders and Harry and company. I think that perhaps that's what she is doing here.

The original Marauders were a group of three great friends in Griffindor, and a weaker fourth - Pettigrew. Pettigrew turns out to be far weaker than any of them originally suspected. In our current story, we have three great friends in Griffindor, and Neville, who originallly appears quite weak, but is becoming far stronger than any of them originally suspected.

The crucial clue to Neville's fate for me comes in PoA, in the Shrieking Shack, when Sirius is confronting Pettigrew:
THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" (PoA, pg 375, US ed. ppb)
To bring events full circle, I think that we will see Neville face the choice that Pettigrew faced: Betray your friends or die. And, of course, Neville would choose death over betrayal. I don't know if he will actually have to die (though I fear he does), but he would have the courage to make that choice. And in making that choice, he will make it possible for Harry to go on to his final confrontation with Voldemort.


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:32 pm
Kerfuffle  Female.gif Kerfuffle is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3401 days
Location: PA
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

If Neville is Chekhov's gun, then Harry is Checkhov's AK-47. Checkhov's nuclear bomb. Checkhov's main-character-who-will-definitely-face-off-against-Voldy-because-anyone-else-would-be-a-ridiculous-and-nonsensical-not-to-mention-unnecessary-plot-twist.


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:32 pm
Saint_Helga  Female.gif Saint_Helga is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2746 days
Location: London
Age: 36
Posts: 3
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions.

Just want to respond quickly.

I think it is very unreasonable to expect Harry to finish LV. Never before has rowling finished her book in an expected way. Indeed, harry has always been able to defeat his enemies in the end of the books, but all the books always had a completely unexpected end.
I don't think Rowling is going to finish her last book with totally predictable duel between Harry and LV. No way. There is going to be a twist. And it is very likely that the twist is going to be realted to the prophecy. Otherwise all the words about "wordind carefully" would be unimportant. If there is a twist about a prophecy then it is reasonable to assume that events are going to develop in such a way that Neville will turn out to be the one to finish the Dark Lord.


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:52 pm
Kerfuffle  Female.gif Kerfuffle is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3401 days
Location: PA
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Saint_Helga, you seem to be completely missing an important theme of books: prophecies are not absolute tellings of the future. Because Voldemort chose Harry as his nemesis, Harry is his nemesis. Because Voldemort believes in the prophecy, it is true. He's not going to go hunting down Neville, and Neville is not going to go hunting for him. The stand-off has been made abundantly clear: Harry v. Voldemort.
To assert that it would be "unreasonable" for Harry and Voldy to face off; well, that is the truly unreasonable thing here.
However, I respect your opinion, and your editorial was very pleasantly grammatically correct, but I would bet my college fund that your precidtion will not come to fruition.


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:55 pm
Wimsey's Avatar
Wimsey  Male.gif Wimsey is offline
Curse Breaker
 
Joined: 3517 days
Location: What day is it?
Posts: 6,983
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint_Helga View Post
If there is a twist about a prophecy then it is reasonable to assume that events are going to develop in such a way that Neville will turn out to be the one to finish the Dark Lord.
I would argue differently. The Prophecy's "twist" will be ironic: the unfolding will be exactly as the Prophecy says (which means Harry and Voldemort), but the outcome will not be the most "obvious" interpretation of those words. However, and as others have noted, the phrasing allows for only two people. So, expect an ironic conclusion playing off of the real paradox: to survive is not the same as to live in this prophecy.


__________________
(It doubles for The Hobbit, too!)
If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there. - A. P. Chekhov, Gurlyand's Reminiscences, and who knew why the Dog was long before the Shack!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:55 pm
LMD101  Female.gif LMD101 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 2874 days
Age: 29
Posts: 95
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerfuffle View Post
If Neville is Chekhov's gun, then Harry is Checkhov's AK-47. Checkhov's nuclear bomb. Checkhov's main-character-who-will-definitely-face-off-against-Voldy-because-anyone-else-would-be-a-ridiculous-and-nonsensical-not-to-mention-unnecessary-plot-twist.
The entire point of the essay and using Chekhov's principle was that Harry is the obvious choice, but not necessarily the correct one. The vast majority of the fandom assumes that Harry will defeat LV. It's those kind of presumptions about the outcome of a plot which, in the hands of some authors, can be turned around to great effect. Of the Neville-will-kill-LV theories, I find this essay especially convincing.

Whilst I think it would be quite a leap, it would also put paid to the typical and not-entirely interesting game-plan which seems the most likely; Harry the Hero defeats LV the Villain. It's been done before.

I like the concept of the essay and think it has some good observations. I would love to see JKR pull off the Chekhov's gun idea using Neville. However, do I think she's going to go down the 'epic confrontation' route with Harry and LV. It is almost a shame, when editorials like this give me ideas of what could have been.



Last edited by LMD101; July 11th, 2007 at 6:55 pm. Reason: Correction of 'Chekhov'
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 11th, 2007, 7:01 pm
Kerfuffle  Female.gif Kerfuffle is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3401 days
Location: PA
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMD101 View Post
The entire point of the essay and using Chekhov's principle was that Harry is the obvious choice, but not necessarily the correct one. The vast majority of the fandom assumes that Harry will defeat LV. It's those kind of presumptions about the outcome of a plot which, in the hands of some authors, can be turned around to great effect. Of the Neville-will-kill-LV theories, I find this essay especially convincing.

Whilst I think it would be quite a leap, it would also put paid to the typical and not-entirely interesting game-plan which seems the most likely; Harry the Hero defeats LV the Villain. It's been done before.

I like the concept of the essay and think it has some good observations. I would love to see JKR pull off the Chekhov's gun idea using Neville. However, do I think she's going to go down the 'epic confrontation' route with Harry and LV. It is almost a shame, when editorials like this give me ideas of what could have been.
Then perhaps you should turn to the wonderful world of speculative fanfiction if the anvil-sized hints that canon provides are too blah and been-there-done-that for you. Or, better yet, discover the work of M. Night Shamalan (sp?). He's very famous for his bizarre and counterintuitive plot twists.
Personally, I'm more of a hero-defeats-the-evil-guy-and-saves-the-day-classical-style kind of girl, but that's just me.


Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 11th, 2007, 7:18 pm
LMD101  Female.gif LMD101 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 2874 days
Age: 29
Posts: 95
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerfuffle View Post
Then perhaps you should turn to the wonderful world of speculative fanfiction if the anvil-sized hints that canon provides are too blah and been-there-done-that for you. Or, better yet, discover the work of M. Night Shamalan (sp?). He's very famous for his bizarre and counterintuitive plot twists.
Personally, I'm more of a hero-defeats-the-evil-guy-and-saves-the-day-classical-style kind of girl, but that's just me.
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to the fundamentals, JKR is doing nothing new. The plot of the entire series is very much 'been-there-done-that', considering her approach to heroes and villains and good versus evil. And yes, I happen to find it rather boring at times, because I think JKR is at her cleverest in the details and how she tells the story, and not in the plot she's using.


Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 11th, 2007, 7:24 pm
Kerfuffle  Female.gif Kerfuffle is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3401 days
Location: PA
Age: 25
Posts: 73
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMD101 View Post
The fact of the matter is that when it comes to the fundamentals, JKR is doing nothing new. The plot of the entire series is very much 'been-there-done-that', considering her approach to heroes and villains and good versus evil. And yes, I happen to find it rather boring at times, because I think JKR is at her cleverest in the details and how she tells the story, and not in the plot she's using.
If it's all so exasperatingly obvious to you, then why don't you write up an editorial outlining the plot of book 7?
As someone who actually likes both the writing and plot-weaving of J.K. Rowling, I don't think this discussion between us can go any further since it's clearly become a matter of personal taste.


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 11th, 2007, 7:27 pm
Steven  Undisclosed.gif Steven is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2737 days
Posts: 0
Re: Chekhov's Gun, Dark Horse, and Macbeth

Saint Helga, nice work.

Dan, this is a fantastic fleshing out of your previous essay, and, if I were a betting man, I'd bet this is pretty close to the mark.


Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > MuggleNet Editorials > General Editorial

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 5:59 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.