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Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?



 
 
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  #121  
Old June 23rd, 2007, 11:26 pm
Quickquill  Female.gif Quickquill is offline
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Re: Avada Kadavra- A Counter Curse?

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Originally Posted by Shewoman View Post
Dumbledore's dead. And I think the kind of protection Lily's death (augmented by Dumbledore's magic) gave Harry is only available to children because it wears off at 17. I don't think adults are supposed to go through live protected. Dumbledore doesn't have the choice about dying that Lily did--and I've also gotten the impression (although I may be wrong) that the sort of protection Lily gave has to be for blood kin because of the emphasis on Harry continuing to live with his mother's sister.

I also think that Avada Kedavra NEEDS to be indefensible . . . just as Voldemort had no defense against Lily's sacrifice.
Actually, the main defense against Avada Kedavra is a good offense. in GoF Harry cast "expelliarmus" simultaneously with Voldemort's "Avada Kedavra". That was when the two wands linked. Granted, they were matched wands, but Harry's main advantage was his quick reflexes. If he'd been slower, he'd have been killed like his father. Voldemort's advantage has always been his ruthlessness and lack of hesitation in carrying out his murders. It's very hard to defend against a surprise attack. Like in a gunfight, the faster draw wins. Dumbledore also repeatedly evaded Voldemort's killing curse in OotP by dodging it.

A far as Lily's protection goes, Voldemort neutralized it by using Harry's blood in the potion he used to create his new body. We don't know if it would have worn off at 17 anyway. The charm of protection Dumbledore cast when he left Harry with his Aunt Petunia was limited to wear off after his seventeenth birthday.



Last edited by Quickquill; June 23rd, 2007 at 11:30 pm.
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  #122  
Old June 24th, 2007, 1:07 am
aggiefan1206  Female.gif aggiefan1206 is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

do you know whats interesting tho. If Voldemort was so good at reading harrys mind why would he not have tried to break into his mind in the graveyard to keep him from even casting expeliamus (sorry i no thats not spelt right) Granite he didnt know about the whole priori encantatum, but still. Anyways may be a little off topic. I think its possible that a spell with strong emotins of love could possibly counter AK. I guess we will have to see how JK worked this one out. Cant wait till the books out !


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  #123  
Old June 24th, 2007, 1:18 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

my point exactly, dumbledore knew that harry had to kill voldemort and voldemort had to kill him becuase of the prophecy


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  #124  
Old June 24th, 2007, 1:47 am
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

Aside from getting statues and phoenixes to deal with the AK for you, there are two ways we know can save you from AK.

The first is Voldemort's way: Horcruxes. Harry's not going to go there, and neither are any of the other good characters.

The second is Lily's way: Self-sacrifice. Notice that it didn't protect HER from the AK. It still did what it was intendeded to do; it killed someone. But Lily's loving death protected her son from the AK that hit him. That's not something you can arrange to save yourself; you can only do it for someone else (under rather exact circumstances: you have to be offered your life and choose to give it up anyway).

Therefore it seems that the only way to be saved from an AK that actually hits you (as opposed to one that is deflected) is for someone to die. Either you've already killed someone and used that to make a Horcrux (or 6) for yourself, or someone else loves you enough to die for you. That's the price.

I don't think that Harry is going to face Voldemort with any protections other than the ones that he has within him (including the memories of his mentors).
JKR quote from the ITV interview in 2005: Sirius' death was not arbitrary. Plot-wise, Harry needs to "go on alone and to give him too much support makes his job too easy." The link is here: http://www.accio-quote.org/themes/sirius.htm
ITV interview, 2005

The woman who said Harry shouldn't have "too much support" isn't going to have him face is enemy in an invulnerable state. In "The Man With Two Faces," PS/SS, Dumbledore tells Harry that his mother's love "will give you some protection forever." But the protection that Dumbledore enhanced with the Charm he added to Lily's sacrifice goes as soon as he's 17. Which is as it should be: heroes don't go into battle protected by their parents' love. They risk themselves. That's why they're heroes.


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
  #125  
Old June 24th, 2007, 4:50 am
Thuldorn Thuldorn is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

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Originally Posted by muggle_born1 View Post
I think I am reading this wrong. Are you saying that an AK can pass through someone or something? The night Lily and James died, Voldemort casted at least 3 AKs. One on James, one on Lily, and one on Harry. The AK didn't go through Lily, hit Harry, then bounce back to Voldemort. Or I may be wrong about that night. Lemme check the book. But as far as I know, an AK is done once it hits something. It doesn't continue through the object.
That was basically my point, he had to have cast 3 AK's to fit what we think we know about GH. However if he did cast 3 AK's, and you can argue all 3 were successful though not necessarily the way Voldemort wanted them to be , if he cast 3 successful AK's how come we didn't see an Echo Voldemort come out of his wand in the Graveyard just before lilly came out?

Depending on which answer you believe there's a problem here, Either Voldemort cast 3 AK's, and you can't argue that the AK didn't leave his wand like any other AK, so are we supposed to assume that for Priori Incantantem that spells that cast properly but don't have the result the owner wanted are ignored? So if Harry cast a Stuppefy at Goyle and "accidently" hit Draco would his wand show he didn't cast anything at all? I think the answer is obvious, so where was the Echo Voldemort?

If he didn't cast 3 AK's the we have to believe an AK passed through Lilly (dieing to provide protection) then bounceing off Harry and nearly destroying Voldemort? Based on what we know about spells in the HP universe that doesn't seem possible.

So we're left with one of two choices, either there were 3 AK's and the Graveyard scene has a major mistake, or there was only 2 AK's (making the graveyard scene correct) and something other than a rebounded AK nearly destroyed Voldemort. Besides something had to destroy the house (based on what Hagrid said after picking up Harry)

Just because Dumbledore said it was a rebounded AK doesn't mean it was, he said he was wrong some times.


  #126  
Old June 24th, 2007, 6:05 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

LOOOOOVE!!!!


  #127  
Old June 25th, 2007, 8:19 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

We saw James and Lily come out of Voldemort's wand. The third AK--the one that hit Harry--wasn't successful: Harry lived. Perhaps only spells that are completed show up in Priori Incantatem.


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
  #128  
Old June 25th, 2007, 8:32 pm
muggle_born1  Undisclosed.gif muggle_born1 is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

Umm, we should probably get back to the topic of a counter-curse for an AK before an auror has to come and yell at us. *shudders*


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  #129  
Old June 25th, 2007, 8:44 pm
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

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Originally Posted by muggle_born1 View Post
Umm, we should probably get back to the topic of a counter-curse for an AK before an auror has to come and yell at us. *shudders*
We usually sneak up behind you guys and intimidate you with our dazzling wit.

...that was a very off-topic remark, by the way, and I'll have to iron my hands now.

So, is there or is there going to be a counter curse?


  #130  
Old June 26th, 2007, 5:04 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

As far as we know, there is no counter-curse for Avada Kedavra and I doubt one is found, since to test it you have to risk killing someone. What Lily did kept the AK from killing her son, but it still killed her. I suppose we might in some way consider making Horcruxes to be a "counter-curse since you have to kill someone to do it--but that's not an option that's going to be open to Harry or those on his side.


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
  #131  
Old July 1st, 2007, 9:10 am
ginnyluv  Female.gif ginnyluv is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

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Originally Posted by Madron View Post
We usually sneak up behind you guys and intimidate you with our dazzling wit.

...that was a very off-topic remark, by the way, and I'll have to iron my hands now.

So, is there or is there going to be a counter curse?




LOVE!!!!


  #132  
Old July 11th, 2007, 10:14 pm
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

I'm going to say that LORD VOLDEMORT could have discovered a counter-curse by now. If a curse is unbeatable then people won't try. But if there's one way there could be others.


  #133  
Old July 11th, 2007, 10:35 pm
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

i believe that there is blocking curse but to conjure you must show true love to conjure it i think it is like a flowing blue waterfall out of thin air

bump


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  #134  
Old July 12th, 2007, 7:01 am
Josh Rider Josh Rider is offline
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

Plus, as we have seen in the Dumbledore/Voldemort duel that Avada Kedavra has serious flaws and isn't perfect against excellent wizards. Any physical object that is not alive and of sufficient size can block the curse. Dumbledore had Fawkes and charmed a bunch of statues at the ministry to protect him. Ya, he almost got hit a few times, but it wasn't sheer luck that Dumbledore prevented his death. Avada Kedavra like all spells has its flaws. A direct hit of the spell is flawless, but it is the skill of the wizard which determines if he will be able to successfully get this direct hit or take measures to avoid/block physically the spell.


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  #135  
Old July 29th, 2007, 1:49 am
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Re: Avada Kedavra- A Counter Curse?

I don't think there's a counter 'curse' but I think that everything in the universe has an opposite and just like Harry's greatest weapon is love, and Voldemort's hate I think that the only counter to Avada Kedavra which represents murder, is sacrifice. It makes sense and we've seen it happen. THe opposite of being murdered against you're will, dying willingly. Harry's mom did that and Harry survived the AK. Beat fire with fire right? So beat death with death.... it makes sense to me.


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