Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v2.

[msstinson]

as far as the trace being put on kids and/or adults. i think it detects magic around kids. magic would be done around harry before he turned 17 to get him away from privet drive. same way as with dobbie in COS. in homes where kids live with witch or wizard parents, they have no way of determineing who did the magic just that it was done. i don't figure that they pay attention to every instance just the ones where they know they can't be wrong.

when someone has only 1 child, and the lamp breaks, they know who did it. if you have two or more, you only know that the lamp broke not who did it.

[shefampyr]

Why did moody go through the whole triwizard tournament when there were so many opportunities alone with harry in book 4. he could have planted a portkey anywhere and gotten harry to grab it.

[bellatrix93]

Thats really interesting. I don't know though. Perhaps it would've been too obvious if he'd taken Harry to Voldemort earlier?
Also Voldemort wanted the plan to go completely undetected. Even Harry's survival was not in his advantage. So I assume he wanted everything to go unnoticed. And Harry suddenly disappearing would've caused a disaster. Ministry would've been involved and everything

[_Moony_]

I think so too. This way Voldemort could take his time to kill Harry off, without anybody noticing or having any suspicion. Nobody was watching them in the maze, and it would probably have taken a long time until somebody decided to search for Harry, and then it would have been too late. When Harry came back they even thought everything was all right, until they noticed that Cedric was dead. If Harry would suddenly disappear in the middle of a school day, there would be too much uproar.

[mrfutterman]

Originally Posted by shefampyr

Why did moody go through the whole triwizard tournament when there were so many opportunities alone with harry in book 4. he could have planted a portkey anywhere and gotten harry to grab it.

True, but that would have alerted people, Dumbledore in particular. Some of us think that the plan was that Harry's death should appear to be an accident which occurred during the dangerous Triwizard competition. The way it was supposed to work would have achieved several goals:

• Voldemort would have got Harry's blood and been able to regenerate
• He would also have killed the Boy Who Lived, which he had failed to do previously.
• He would have killed Harry in front of his DEs, thus destroying Harry’s mystique and winning over/terrorizing any waverers
• His return would have been a secret to the rest of the WW, while he continued to build his strength behind the scenes
• Dumbledore would have been shaken by Harry’s death, and would have been blamed by the WW for letting a minor compete in the TWT. So another threat to Voldemort would be weakened.

[meesha1971]

[staff edit]

Originally Posted by bellatrix93

I have something new in case anybody is interested. Now we know that when the Fidelius charm is cast on a certain place, no one could give the secret to other people except the secret keeper himself. Yet when the trio where at the Malfoys' Ron had given Dobby the secret of Bill's place. How is that possible, when Bill stated that he was the secret keeper?

I think I posted it somewhere before but I don't remember the responses.

When the trio arrived at Shell Cottage after they had escaped from Malfoy Manor, Bill explained that they had used the Fidelius Charm to hide the rest of the Weasley family at Aunt Muriel's house as well as themselves at Shell Cottage. The implication was that they had done that while Harry was burying Dobby. That is further supported by Bill explaining that none of them would be able to go to work from that point on.

They didn't need to use the Fidelius Charm prior to that because the ploy of using the ghoul to impersonate Ron with spattergoit had been working. Once the trio had been captured and taken to Malfoy Manor, it was known that Ron was with Harry so it became necessary for the rest of the Weasley family to stop going to work and use the Fidelius Charm to hide themselves.

Originally Posted by HMN

So I was reading PoA the other day and Harry blows up his aunt, then leaves Privet Drive and meets a big black dog nearby the Dursley's house. My question: How does Sirius know where the Dursley's live? If the death eaters don't know the address or exact location (as is stated in DH) then how in the world did Sirius find out?

I don't recall it being stated in DH that the Death Eaters didn't know the address or the exact location of #4 Privet Dr. On the contrary, Moody was sure Voldemort would have Death Eaters staking the general area out to watch for Harry being moved - he also insisted on waiting until they were inside the house before discussing the change in plans. Also, the Death Eater meeting at the beginning implied that they knew where Harry was - there was talk of having people on the inside at the Ministry who could inform them if Harry used the floo network or apparated. They would have to know the location to monitor for those means of travel. They knew where Harry was, but couldn't get to him there until the protective charm was broken and they wouldn't be able to get to him at his destination until the Ministry fell because of the protective charms that would be used there. That was why they opted to try and capture him while he traveled. And they were doing as Moody suspected - waiting in the air above #4 Privet Dr. for Harry to be moved outside the protection charm. The only difference was that Moody thought they would be staking the area out as a precaution, but they already knew that Harry was going to be moved that night.

I don't think Harry's location was ever hidden - people knew he lived with muggle relatives and Harry tells us about running into people that seemed to know him frequently before he found out that he was a wizard. Sirius knew the Dursley's names because of Lily so it wouldn't have been difficult for him to look in a phone book to get their address. Lily could have told him where they lived at some point as well. We know from POA that Hagrid told Sirius that Dumbledore had ordered him to take Harry to his aunt and uncle as well so it's possible that Hagrid told him. There are quite a few ways that Sirius could have gotten the address.

Originally Posted by shefampyr

Why did moody go through the whole triwizard tournament when there were so many opportunities alone with harry in book 4. he could have planted a portkey anywhere and gotten harry to grab it.

As others pointed out, that would have been too obvious. Harry disappearing from the castle like that - or even on the grounds - would have been highly suspicious and resulted in an investigation and search for his whereabouts. The last thing Voldemort wanted was for Dumbledore to be put on the alert. The tournament was the perfect cover - particularly the third task because nobody could see inside the maze except for Moody and he was being impersonated by Crouch Jr. They could use the portkey to take Harry to the graveyard, kill him, and then send him back so it would appear that he had been killed in the maze. As the Order explained to Harry in OOTP, Voldemort wanted to keep his return a complete secret so he could rebuild his army of followers and gather strength without any interference from the Ministry or Dumbledore.

[OldMotherCrow]

Originally Posted by shefampyr

Why did moody go through the whole triwizard tournament when there were so many opportunities alone with harry in book 4. he could have planted a portkey anywhere and gotten harry to grab it.

An alternative theory is that just like Apparition, Portkeys don't work on Hogwarts grounds unless authorized by the Headmaster. In this theory the Triwizard Cup is a Portkey authorized by Dumbledore to take whichever competitor touches it first to the winners circle, and since it is the only Portkey that will work on Hogwarts grounds, it explains why Voldemort needs the Cup specifically to be the Portkey, and has to manuever Harry into actually winning the contest so he'll be the one transported.

Edited to add: There was this thread a while ago, "Why did the Triwizard Cup return Harry to Hogwarts" , that discussed theories about Voldemort's plan.

[Kat_Suki]

I've always wondered why Nagini could see Harry and Hermione under the Cloak at Godric's Hollow...?

1. If she could somehow sense their body heat while they were hidden under the Cloak, then why on earth didn't Nagini sense Harry drawing near as he walked out of the forest into the clearing that night?
   
2. Why, once Harry'd come back from limbo to the land of the living, didn't she sense that Harry was alive and alert her master - why'd Narcissa have to check him over?
   
3. And why didn't Nagini alert her master to Narcissa's lie {in similar manner to Nagini alerting her master to Harry's presence at Bathilda's} that Harry wasn't dead as claimed?
   
4. Could it be that the magic bubble she was cocooned within somehow prevented that special connection between she and her master? And if so, once the magic bubble was cancelled out and the seemingly dead Harry was lifted up to be carried in Hagrid's arms, how come Nagini still didn't spot the fact that Harry was alive?

ETA this post-DH quote from Jo:

Live Chat, Bloomsbury.com, July 30, 2007 Jess: How did nagini could see harry and hermione if they were under the invisibility cloak J.K. Rowling: Snakes' sense are very different from human ones. They can detect heat and movement in a way that we can't.

That seems fairly inconsistent to me and a plausible plot hole.

[TreacleTartlet]

Originally Posted by Kat_Suki

I've always wondered why Nagini could see Harry and Hermione under the Cloak at Godric's Hollow...? [list=1][*]If she could somehow sense their body heat while they were hidden under the Cloak, then why on earth didn't Nagini sense Harry drawing near as he walked out of the forest into the clearing that night?

Possibly as you mentioned, the magic bubble prevented her from using her senses.

[*]Why, once Harry'd come back from limbo to the land of the living, didn't she sense that Harry was alive and alert her master - why'd Narcissa have to check him over?
[*]And why didn't Nagini alert her master to Narcissa's lie {in similar manner to Nagini alerting her master to Harry's presence at Bathilda's} that Harry wasn't dead as claimed?

I don't think Nagini would have been able to sense if Harry was alive or dead, just that he was there. Snakes sense their prey by smelling the air with their tongues, and some can detect body heat. But even if Harry was dead he would still retain his body heat for quite a long while afterwards.